Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[shakermaker1982]

This game is pretty much a shoot out. Win this and we have one foot in the qualification door. Hope the players start fast and 3 points would be nice for my 33rd birthday ;)

Gutted I cannot be there, could only make the England game with how things fell so I'm hoping the Aviva can roar the boys on. Very subdued on Sunday because of the early kick off, alcohol ban and heat!

I'm really hard pushed to nail a starting 11. I cannot remember the last time it has been that close, so many marginal calls. I can see the value in playing Walters/Hoolahan etc. we played for a draw in Glasgow and lost to a moment of magic (and Irish lack of concentration from a set piece) so there isn't a lot between the two teams but
I'd say we have the better players in more positions than they have.

I think he might go for this....

Given

Coleman O'Shea Wilson Brady

Hendricks Whelan McCarthy

Walters Long McGeady



I would start Hoolahan though. Scotland do like their 4-2-3-1 and we won't want to be outnumbered in midfield. Long has to start. He's a handful and his pace can trouble them.

Hopefully by 70th min we are 2 nil up and coasting and Robbie can come on when Scotland are chasing the game.

[Crosby87]

What time does this game start chaps?

[Fixer82]

I think he'll go for

-- - - - Westwood/Given - - - -

Coleman Wilson O'Shea Brady

Walters McCarthy Whelan McGeady

- - - - - - Wessi - - - -

- - - - - - -Long - - -

[Charlie Darwin]

What time does this game start chaps?
5pm Irish time so I'm guessing midday in NYC. Crackbird have a big screen set up for it.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Given
Coleman, O'Shea, Wilson, Brady
Walters, McCarthy, Whelan, McGeady
Hoolahan
Keane

I think this will be the team.

McGeady hasn't played much football over the last several months. Walters is pushing 32 and has been playing like a man flogged by Stoke over the last several seasons whenever he has played recently for Ireland. Keane is pushing 35, out of form and lacking fitness at LA Galaxy and has been a peripheral presence for Ireland recently. Hoolahan 33.... Whelan 31.... McCarthy inhibited by the role he plays for Ireland.

I'm not confident. Hoolahan can only do so much with the players he is playing with.

I think McClean and Long should be guaranteed starters but there is a bizarre persistence with Walters and a festering desperation that will see us go back to the well with Keane.

It will be a team impinged by a lack of pace and penetration on Saturday.

I honestly don't understand why there is a reluctance to play Long on the wing. He has excelled there for Southampton. His assists and goals record for club and country over the spring should guarantee his presence in the team somewhere but alas... as people have said, by all means at least play Walters up front and have them interchanging to give them problems.

Not confident at all. I predict a Scotland win but, really, a draw is just as disastrous. And I already hear the dreaded noise about ensuring that we "don't lose".

[DannyInvincible]

Anything other than a win and it's curtains. We're already behind in the mini-league of three. Settling for a draw just because it's better than a loss would be intolerable. We really have to win this. Well, Poland was a game that, all things considered, we needed to win to keep the pressure off, but this really is the final chance now.

I'd like to see Martin be daring and throw Westwood in goals. It shouldn't have to be a daring decision to make - Westwood is our best keeper - but Shay seems to be favoured for whatever reason. Shay didn't look convincing at all when he came on against England though. I would never wish Shay ill will or bad luck - he's the consummate professional - but I do hope that his handling and kicking in that game have given Martin some serious food for thought.

It's frustrating watching Coleman try to single-handedly force his own way into games for us. He's not even half as potent for us as he is racing up and down the wing receiving passes in threatening positions and knocking balls and goals in for Everton week in and week out. His abilities are absolutely wasted due to our tactical limitations.

I can't see McGeady not starting. Thought he played well against England and he's an O'Neill favourite (for good reason). I don't actually think Robbie will start. He's been out for a bit and Martin simply can't be so blind as to keep making the same mistake of sticking him in because he's a pedigree goalscorer without really thinking about how we'll get the ball to him to let him do what he does best in the first place. (If Robbie does start, so must the Wessiah.) I can see Long starting after getting us out of jail against Poland, even if he didn't do anything at all against England when he came on. Not that that was his fault either - our midfield and any semblance of up-field creativity simply disappeared during the second half - just like it isn't Robbie's fault when we can't even feed him scraps sometimes because of how we're set up. I'd love to see us go for something more imaginative than Walters the brute, but it'd be a surprise not to see him in the starting line-up.

Have we heard anything further on O'Shea's muscular problem? I'm guessing it isn't going to be an issue and he'll start.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jun/10/championship-players-euro-2016-qualifying-fitness

How the Championship based players prepared for the June window. Nice infographic included, detailing days since last competitive appearance for an array of Irish (and Scottish) footballers.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/martin-oneill-scotland-game-is-not-make-or-break-336321.html

To that end, O’Neill would like Ireland to put in a first-half performance against Scotland similar to the one they delivered in the second half against Poland.

“If we could start like that in the game, if we could get ourselves going and try and get the first goal rather than chasing things, that will give ourselves a chance,” he says.

[Charlie Darwin]

Have we heard anything further on O'Shea's muscular problem? I'm guessing it isn't going to be an issue and he'll start.
Seems it won't be an issue, which is just as well as McShane is the new doubt.

[Stuttgart88]

Westwood has a great kick from both hands and the ground and looks sharp. Surely O'Neill must be noticing that Given doesn't have the commanding effect he was probably brought back for? A long ball manager like O'Neill must surely notice Westwoods long kicking, and generally superior distribution of all kinds.

[geysir]

Don't you think the fact that Westwood started the game v England, means it is likely that he was already marked down as first choice for the scotland game but just had to pass the test.

[paul_oshea]

No.

But it would be nice if you were right.

[Kingdom]

Anything other than a win and it's curtains. We're already behind in the mini-league of three. Settling for a draw just because it's better than a loss would be intolerable. We really have to win this. Well, Poland was a game that, all things considered, we needed to win to keep the pressure off, but this really is the final chance now.

I'd like to see Martin be daring and throw Westwood in goals. It shouldn't have to be a daring decision to make - Westwood is our best keeper - but Shay seems to be favoured for whatever reason. Shay didn't look convincing at all when he came on against England though. I would never wish Shay ill will or bad luck - he's the consummate professional - but I do hope that his handling and kicking in that game have given Martin some serious food for thought.

It's frustrating watching Coleman try to single-handedly force his own way into games for us. He's not even half as potent for us as he is racing up and down the wing receiving passes in threatening positions and knocking balls and goals in for Everton week in and week out. His abilities are absolutely wasted due to our tactical limitations.

I can't see McGeady not starting. Thought he played well against England and he's an O'Neill favourite (for good reason). I don't actually think Robbie will start. He's been out for a bit and Martin simply can't be so blind as to keep making the same mistake of sticking him in because he's a pedigree goalscorer without really thinking about how we'll get the ball to him to let him do what he does best in the first place. (If Robbie does start, so must the Wessiah.) I can see Long starting after getting us out of jail against Poland, even if he didn't do anything at all against England when he came on. Not that that was his fault either - our midfield and any semblance of up-field creativity simply disappeared during the second half - just like it isn't Robbie's fault when we can't even feed him scraps sometimes because of how we're set up. I'd love to see us go for something more imaginative than Walters the brute, but it'd be a surprise not to see him in the starting line-up.


Smashing post. I'd have a slightly different stance of Walters, but that aside, I agree completely.
Westwood, once he got regular starts at club-level, should have been parachuted into the team. Forde did little wrong, but for me just wasn't convincing enough to fully relax. Westwood has been absolutely magnificent for Wednesday this season, and admitted he could have moved to the PL except he liked Wednesday and was grateful for the faith and first team football. I've no issue with that. Personally I look at the PL, and I see at least half the teams he could play for comfortably as first choice. The really funny thing is he'd be more suited to Villa than Given such is their respective skill-sets, and how Sherwood plays football.

Obviously we're all great amateur managers, whereas MON has an actual contract, so I'd wonder is there little personality flaws that sway him against having proper faith in Westwood? Small things that we wouldn't see, or perhaps the interaction he has with the centre backs.

On Walters, I have to say I love him. I think he's a gem of a player. We're a long-ball team, irrespective of whether Wes plays or not. We'll play a bit in our half, string 7/8 nice passes together, the crowd will get restless, the ball will come to Marc Wilson who'll advance 5 yards get closed down and then whoooof, long ball. So put the totem up there for those long balls, and play the two nippers off him, whether it's McGeady and Long, or Long and McClean. Walters up top will ensure Greer and particularly Mulgrew if he plays there, will not get an easy ride.
I'd prefer to see Long on the right if we're going to play an attacker there, as his pace will be better utilised than Walters who is sluggish.


Westwood has a great kick from both hands and the ground and looks sharp. Surely O'Neill must be noticing that Given doesn't have the commanding effect he was probably brought back for? A long ball manager like O'Neill must surely notice Westwoods long kicking, and generally superior distribution of all kinds.

You would think so. It's do or die now for O'Neill. I caught a glimpse of an interview this morning where he's quoted as saying "if we cast off the shackles we should win"; Well Martin, it would have been easier if you said " if I cast off the shackles". Hoolahan has to start in the advanced midfield role.

I said at the start of the campaign, that this Euro group could define the side for a generation, given the age of key players, the fall in the rankings and seedings and just general demoralisation with the public. It was an eminently achievable target to qualify for Euro 16, yet if we don't win on Saturday, it won't happen. Being in pot 4 for the world cup and all that that should bring is a sobering thought.

That said, it's great to see so much excitement again on this forum.

[paul_oshea]

Has no one equated the coleman bit about not getting forward and why he can't get forward, he needs space to run into, and he needs to be running at a defender at pace with a head of steam built up. If we had someone who was giving him 1-2s out of defense and something to run onto we would see him far better utilised. The only way to achieve that is playing someone like wessi in a less advance forward role to pick the up ball up from defense, turn, and bring one of the wing backs into play.

Coleman does the odd time just take it out of defense hoof it ahead and/or skip by one player and a bit of a run, but he is at his most effective and best when he has built up a head of steam and has something to run onto in space, the counter-attacking football that Everton have used to good effect.

[DannyInvincible]

Has no one equated the coleman bit about not getting forward and why he can't get forward, he needs space to run into, and he needs to be running at a defender at pace with a head of steam built up. If we had someone who was giving him 1-2s out of defense and something to run onto we would see him far better utilised. The only way to achieve that is playing someone like wessi in a less advance forward role to pick the up ball up from defense, turn, and bring one of the wing backs into play.

Coleman does the odd time just take it out of defense hoof it ahead and/or skip by one player and a bit of a run, but he is at his most effective and best when he has built up a head of steam and has something to run onto in space, the counter-attacking football that Everton have used to good effect.

That's exactly what I was getting at, although I shall confer full credit to yourself as I know you will have said it years before Seamie and I were even born. :)

[nigel-harps1954]

Ladies and Gentlemen...Roy Keane. This right here is one of the reasons Roy Keane is one of my all time heroes, takes no guff and tells it like it is.


1018608938157852

[geysir]

So far in this group we haven't shown anything of real substance, to give any or much confidence other than the likelihood that the dull droll scots will get at least a draw.
However, it's a scientifically proven fact that a fan can approach this game in great hope and optimism and will recover from the devastation of defeat much better than the pessimist (phoney realists).
Here's looking forward to redemption.

[Stuttgart88]

We have shown substance this campaign in fits and starts, but not for a full game. Same can be said of pretty much any performance since Mick in my opinion.

[shakermaker1982]

Can we also please take McGeady off corner duties. Particularly from the right hand side of the pitch. Delicate chips into the box are not conducive to seeing powerful and accurate headers. Drives me bloody potty.

[DeLorean]

Heard a little exchange between Roy Keane and Tony O'Donoghue on Newstalk from earlier. It went something like this:

TOD: What areas will ye be specifically hoping to improve?

RK: Maybe score a goal... and keep a clean sheet

TOD: Will a draw be enough?

RK: Well obviously not if we score a goal and keep a clean sheet

[Charlie Darwin]

Heard a little exchange between Roy Keane and Tony O'Donoghue on Newstalk from earlier. It went something like this:

TOD: What areas will ye be specifically hoping to improve?

RK: Maybe score a goal... and keep a clean sheet

TOD: Will a draw be enough?

RK: Well obviously not if we score a goal and keep a clean sheet
Nigel posted the video of it up there. It's even better than it reads on paper - made TOD look like an eejit.

[geysir]

We have shown substance this campaign in fits and starts, but not for a full game. Same can be said of pretty much any performance since Mick in my opinion.
We have shown substance in plenty of games since Mick, but maybe not in game after game.
In this campaign we have some substance in fits and start in each game, but not enough so far to have us as likely winners of what is a crunch game for us.
I'd say most neutrals who have watched us and the Scots would be of the opinion the Scots will get their result.
If we win, we will have managed to do something we haven't pulled off so far.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Options, options, options.

McClean, McGeady, Hoolahan, Long and Quinn are all capable of playing on the wing, drifting inside, getting crosses in and linking up; all have speed of thought and can get things moving. If we want to be really radical, we could play Coleman or Brady in there for, particularly the former, for their goal threat.

But no. The rhino, Jonathan Walters, will play.

I'm sure Scotland are quaking in their boots. Exactly the kind of player they want to play against.

[Fixer82]

I think we'll get more breaks in this game. I remember in Glasgow after about 15-20 minutes their left back really should have gotten a red card after having taken down Shane Long as the last man.
We'll get the rub of the green Scotland got that night.
Unless that gob****e who reffed the Poland game is on it.
Then we're screwed....

[BonnieShels]

If it wasn't bad enough that I was feeling confident...


4FM have gone and played "Put 'Em Under Pressure".

COYBIG

[jbyrne]

Unless that gob****e who reffed the Poland game is on it.
Then we're screwed....

Italian ref Nicola Rizzoli is the ref as far as I know. was the ref in last years wc final

[DeLorean]

Definitely would have been better of with Trap so :p

[Stuttgart88]

I think we'll get more breaks in this game. I remember in Glasgow after about 15-20 minutes their left back really should have gotten a red card after having taken down Shane Long as the last man.
We'll get the rub of the green Scotland got that night.
Unless that gob****e who reffed the Poland game is on it.
Then we're screwed....That was Grant Hanley I think. In fairness to the ref from the Poland game he allowed Walters' challenge on Fabianski when it was a clear foul. The goal followed seconds later.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Feeling pessimistic about this one. The team overall is showing little or no improvement from the Trap days for me which I didn't expect and is disappointing. There is no evidence there to say we can go out and get a commanding victory tomorrow. I've been even more disappointed in MON. The spikey, assertive character of his Celtic days is long gone. He seems bored and resigned to me. Fed up with our lack of quality and his inability to open the cheque book and change that. Overall we are still the Ireland I have been watching since Italia 90. Creating little of note and relying on set pieces, scrambles, breaks of the ball and crosses for goals. Hopefully us playing a very similar team at home will see us edge it somehow but I doubt it. It will probably be 1-1 but we could easily lose 1-2 or 0-2 and be sitting here on Sunday morning gone backwards years.

[geysir]

That was Grant Hanley I think. In fairness to the ref from the Poland game he allowed Walters' challenge on Fabianski when it was a clear foul. The goal followed seconds later.
The goal came from a corner (or something), the ball was headed down to Long who deftly chipped the goalie, the goal was good? Did the foul happen before that.

I had a look at the highlights the other day of that game against Poland, and we created a string of very good chances before our goal, If you only looked at the 5 minute highlights you'd think we had them nailed to the wall, that the goal was coming and was well deserved.
We're okay when chasing a game, minor details though like our whole first half needs to improve and it's unknown how we would manage a game after going a goal up.

[DeLorean]

I've been even more disappointed in MON. The spikey, assertive character of his Celtic days is long gone. He seems bored and resigned to me.

Yeah I must admit it pains me to feel the same way, and you get the impression MON's main attributes as a manager was getting stuck in the role and his infectious enthusiasm. Without that there may not be a whole lot else he has to offer. That said, some of his selections have shown flexibility and a lack of stubbornness which preceded him. He's also well able to handle the media and seems to have a very happy camp and the players respect him. In theory that should go a long way in itself. But yeah, this guy has definitely left the building....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39220000/jpg/_39220541_oneillleap270.jpg

[shakermaker1982]

It's called age lads.....

Fergie even mellowed as the years went by.

[DeLorean]

Probably yeah, but still remains to be seen if MON's other characteristics can adequately compensate for it though, that was my main point. Fergie's obviously did.


The goal came from a corner (or something), the ball was headed down to Long who deftly chipped the goalie, the goal was good? Did the foul happen before that.


https://youtu.be/KoFPKWoBH6I?t=169

[paul_oshea]

Yeah I must admit it pains me to feel the same way, and you get the impression MON's main attributes as a manager was getting stuck in the role and his infectious enthusiasm. Without that there may not be a whole lot else he has to offer. That said, some of his selections have shown flexibility and a lack of stubbornness which preceded him. He's also well able to handle the media and seems to have a very happy camp and the players respect him. In theory that should go a long way in itself. But yeah, this guy has definitely left the building....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39220000/jpg/_39220541_oneillleap270.jpg

He's in his 60's there is no way he could jump that high. Perhaps he feels more emotions being British in an Irish Context.

He is older though so maybe that enthusiasm shows in different ways, or not at all. He is a long time managing now, certainly I got a great sense of drive and emotion in that morning breakfast thing Stutts and I went to.

D'Oh i only saw Shakers post there! Sorry shakes, great minds...

[BonnieShels]

shakermaker merely posted it first. Think of it as a placeholder for your authoritive stance on the matter.

what are you getting at though with "Perhaps he feels more emotions being British in an Irish Context."?

[DeLorean]

Great minds my ass :) I can't speak for Bottle of Tonic but I was certainly putting his lack of energy and enthusiasm down to his age in my own mind, it was too obvious even to mention! Hasn't he been through a rough time personally as well, wasn't his wife sick for a while, and his good pal Robertson? I suppose these things make people reevaluate what's really important and put football in it's place. I don't know if this is the case though, might be over-thinking it. I think his fairly subdued tenure at Sunderland hasn't inspired confidence either, as there were already questions about him being past his best before he joined up with us. If he had taken over after Celtic, or even Villa, he would have seemed far more of a sure thing.

[geysir]

https://youtu.be/KoFPKWoBH6I?t=169
It looked a typical challenge that a ref would typically blow up for, it was a let-off. However that's on the account with Poland and we have a different account to settle with Scotland.

[paul_oshea]

A mate was out at training today, said Roy is in charge, Walters can't shoot(great!) and given looked sharp.

Roy said to the lads "you can score goals lads, you're allowed to score goals" and seamie fell over, "play on Seamus, **** me, you're not Italian" :D

Worryingly he didn't see McGeady playing in the 11-aside training game!

[paul_oshea]

shakermaker merely posted it first. Think of it as a placeholder for your authoritive stance on the matter.

what are you getting at though with "Perhaps he feels more emotions being British in an Irish Context."?

I actually meant it both ways, but only wrote it one way, I was being half-serious, but with the Celtic thing perhaps there was something to it.

[paul_oshea]

Great minds my ass :) I can't speak for Bottle of Tonic but I was certainly putting his lack of energy and enthusiasm down to his age in my own mind, it was too obvious even to mention! Hasn't he been through a rough time personally as well, wasn't his wife sick for a while, and his good pal Robertson? I suppose these things make people reevaluate what's really important and put football in it's place. I don't know if this is the case though, might be over-thinking it. I think his fairly subdued tenure at Sunderland hasn't inspired confidence either, as there were already questions about him being past his best before he joined up with us. If he had taken over after Celtic, or even Villa, he would have seemed far more of a sure thing.

I know, i was being silly about the age thing in the first sentence i thought that was obvious. But the second sentence I stand by.

I'd be more concerned how he reads our games, and players performances, perhaps with the foresight of looking over the games on videos he changes, but many times he has been happy with our performances and players performances when the fans have not been happy at all and justifiably so. Trap suffered from this same illness as well, and perhaps thats why both aren't getting results they expect. We were woeful against Scotland and to single out one moment of magic is ridiculous it should be the stick to beat them with in saying that if we play well we WILL beat them. Even the last day he singled out Arter, ARter did about 2 things in 30 mins for the rest himself and his midfield partner were chasing shadows and getting nowhere near England. They needed to get on the ball and hold onto it for a while, it certainly wasn't a performance i would have singled out from the others.

[Eminence Grise]

Ladies and Gentlemen...Roy Keane. This right here is one of the reasons Roy Keane is one of my all time heroes, takes no guff and tells it like it is.


1018608938157852

On a footnote, the Indo are reporting today that TO'D is being treated after a car crash. Typically, they only get half the story right - he's being treated for a severely bruised ego and scarring caused by Keane's withering stare after this car crash of an interview!! http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rte-soccer-correspondent-tony-odonoghue-sends-his-love-to-ireland-team-doctor-following-car-crash-31295992.html

(Seriously, he was in a tip, but luckily was uninjured and will be hale and hearty to continue giving Irish fans something to talk about.)

[nigel-harps1954]

Press conference was live on RTE News Channel there but they just cut away for the 1 O'Clock news. Twas awfully annoying.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Annoying how Hendrick sold himself for Maloney's goal in Glasgow. It shouldn't have got to the stage where they could have got a sight on goal.

Ah well Wilson, Whelan & McCarthy back.

And now McGeady's injured FFS.

If it's any consolation Walters is a nailed on starter, so it was always going to come down to McClean or McGeady, and McClean is arguably a better option so it's not the end of the world.

[DeLorean]

Can you just lay off the Walters thing a small bit please, we get it, and many agree with you. It doesn't need to be mentioned in every post.

[Olé Olé]

Hopefully McGeady is available. MON's quotes don't sound too negative so he will surely play some part: http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/aiden-mcgeady-could-miss-scotland-game-after-sitting-out-of-ireland-training-today/28410

I love McClean, meself, and I've always been quick to state as much. If we're looking to attack the Scots from the off tomorrow, McClean is ideal for the blood and thunder of that. Furthermore, he'll get the crowd going immediately.

But then you leave out McGeady (if fit). And it comes down to the question as to who is the better impact substitute. McGeady is more skilful. McClean is more powerful. The easy option is to bring in McClean when the Scots are tired and McGeady has/hasn't managed to pick a hole in their defence with more subtle techniques. From the start, though, could be another option... Obviously, if McGeady is fit then McClean won't be considered, unless McGeady is shifted to RW or 10 (Walters and Hoolahan most likely for those spots) but I'll be very interested to see how McClean gets on if McGeady isn't passed fit.

[Crosby87]

What's everyone predicting?
Me head says 3-1 Scotties.
Me heart says 2-1 Scotties.

Robertson 11 Robertson 33 McGeady 90

Who is Robertson? That's the only scot ive ever heard of other than the Jeopardy guy, the star wars guy(s), the star trek guy, and the kitchen nightmares guy.
oh, and Charlie Darwin says no one says scotch.

[jbyrne]

I think we will get a very nervy 1-0 win. late goal again from mclean

[SwanVsDalton]

MON: Keane and McGeady will decide whether they play (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/keane-and-mcgeady-to-decide-on-scotland-involvement-1.2247395)

McGeady got a recurring injury, but sounds like he'd be ok to play. Keane, of course, has suffered two bereavements.

[Olé Olé]

MON: Keane and McGeady will decide whether they play (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/keane-and-mcgeady-to-decide-on-scotland-involvement-1.2247395)

McGeady got a recurring injury, but sounds like he'd be ok to play. Keane, of course, has suffered two bereavements.

Never considered the personal effect of the two tragic bereavements that Keane and his family have suffered. Coupled with fitness concerns, it's tough to see him starting (regardless of the selection and tactical decisions to be made).

With his ghost-like movement he could really cause the Scottish defence trouble in the latter stages of the game. They'll definitely be wary of him too which may allow him to drag some mediocre defenders out of position, not to mention his finishing ability if a chance presents itself.

[paul_oshea]

How come i got no thanks for mentioning first about mcgeady being out ;)