Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[geysir]

Strange enough, considering reactions to this game, I am a good deal more positive about MON after the game, than before. Mostly I was pleased with the way MON impressed his idea of how we should play and how the players took that on board, with gusto. For the first time I could see a game plan that could work without the need for a midfield maestro and seeing as we have no maestros, bar a fading Wes, this type of thing matters.
And flexibility can be induced with introduction of McGeady and to a lesser extent McClean.

We deserved our goal regardless of margins, we were made work for it but we gifted Scotland one for free.
I concur with MON about the goal, Scotland waltzed unimpeded into our box with the ball from the half way line and the going nowhere shot took an awful deflection. There were 10 errors in our play before Shay comes under scrutiny. We were collectively shoddy. Perhaps the effects of the half-time toke?
Wilson was shoddy at times, a pity because he has ability. O'Shea was a decisive leader, everything we wanted him to be in 2002, when he had youth on his side. Coleman showed signs of some rust. The rest played to their limits on the day. MON deserved better for this game but the pressure was on to win because of our last 2 results.

[tetsujin1979]

If we're to call up 4 keepers why not Lawlor or Henderson rather than 4 quite seasoned keepers? It's been unimaginative.
Lawlor had an operation on his leg recently, so he was unavailable.

[Stuttgart88]

I think you get the point though. It's not something O'Neill would do. Can't prove it, but there's enough circumstantial evidence.

[Real ale Madrid]

People forget that we had NINE friendlies with MON before this campaign started. That's a lot of game time to throw in young players and develop a new style of play. We will have the bones of 12 months to prepare for the World cup qualifiers if we don't get to France. Ample time for a manager to try new players / formations and come to conclusions. Don't see why we need to sacrifice a whole campaign just to give players a chance.

[DannyInvincible]

DI look at Uefa here ->http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/qualifiers/season=2016/matches/round=2000446/match=2013954/index.html

Shots on target was 6 , to Scotlands 3. Total attempts 13 to 8. That's not a huge difference by any standards.

The corners one is the only one that reads well really relative to us supposedly being that good and completely stifling Scotland. But corners are not shots on goal, or clear cut chances per se!

13 to 8 is a significant enough difference, especially when we had double the number on target than they did. If you don't see it that way, fair enough. Corners are still indicative of territorial dominance/advantage and persistent pressure; we had 9 more corners than they had.

You initially said, however: "i didnt think we had played that well, but i could sense those watching on TV thought we would have, and all my mates texted me saying exactly that. I texted and said we have created absolutely nothing, and we hadn't!"

I've demonstrated with stats you sought to rely on why it was unfair to say we created absolutely nothing in the first half (the goal being the most glaring and important example of something we created), but, really, what I was interested in knowing was why you thought the way we played in the first half would have impressed or encouraged only television viewers? Never mind the air of superiority about it, I just thought it an odd comment considering numerous respected professional writers/commentators/pundits (as I've pointed out) who were also at the game saw it differently to how you did. Either they lack your insight or you hadn't been paying attention.

[Crosby87]

For arguments sake, if MON were to step down after Ireland fail to qualify, who would be the front runner as next man up? Is there one?

[Charlie Darwin]

Lawlor had an operation on his leg recently, so he was unavailable.
Also Henderson ALLEGEDLY had a big falling out with Seamus McDonagh at Aston Villa, hence why he is never considered.

[paul_oshea]

DI we had 6 shots in total on target, 3 in the second half, 6 in total. On the tele you see a small piece of the pitch at a time, so if you see us with the ball all the time it gives the impression that we had loads of the ball over all over the place.

That wasn't really the case and that's what i was pointing out. We held the ball well, I never disagreed with that, in their half more than ours, as you suggest by the heatmap, but so what? They were happy like every other team apart from top sides that come to dublin to sit back and soak it up. We had way more fouls committed, you don't normally commit fouls when you have the ball. The important stats are shots on goal really, and we had 6 in the whole game. That is terrible. Scotland had 3 not a great deal less.

If we had created 20 shots to their 10 then fair enough but we didn't, we had 3 more, its very insignificant really.

[IsMiseSean]

For arguments sake, if MON were to step down after Ireland fail to qualify, who would be the front runner as next man up? Is there one?

Philippe Troussier.

[SwanVsDalton]

Nice to see some sanity restored to the forum.

The 'write-off' suggestion has to be taken in context - I not sure anyone's said we should just forget about a qualification campaign. I certainly haven't.

What Malone was talking about was in the overall trajectory of Irish international football - an aging side, with not much apparent talent coming through, facing fourth seed status and a probable extremely tough draw in the next campaign.

His point was any long-term solution to the decline is hampered by a don't lose at all costs, qualify-or-bust attitude. I'm inclined to agree. It's not necessarily about playing Ian Lawlor or Ian Henderson or Noe Baba or whoever, or playing 352 or tika taka or any number of experiments. It's about giving the players we have the room to play football free of fear.

The team look scared. They've looked scared for a long time, certainly post Euros and realistically before them. It's a deep-seated, chronic problem that may require disposing of certain players and ways or thinking - or maybe not. But either way, it has to be looked at long-term rather than game-to-game.

When Mick McCarthy took over post-Jack, everyone knew the craic- that team was done. It was transition time and we faced an uphill task to make France 98. We made a play-off, but it was a poor campaign. Acceptable in context.

Next time out, we beat Croatia and Yugoslavia - still didn't make the finals, agonisingly, but those were some games to cheer about. Those guys didn't play with fear, they had intent, particularly at home. And next time we made it.

Those were painful years, but they had progress too and there was a feeling that the team had room to grow and improve. Granted, that team had some decent talent in it but it also maxismised its resources, something we desperately need to do.

Sometimes playing without fear comes from having nothing to lose. Scotland don't have anything to lose - things couldn't have got much worse for them and they're playing like a team who has seen darker days but knows it can play out of them. We need to find that confidence too.

I'd like to think a managerial change or picking Wes Hoolahan or going 433 would be enough to do that - but so far, it hasn't. I don't want a write off, I just want to feel like we're playing with freedom and building towards a better future rather than drawing/losing every game with no benefit.

[IsMiseSean]

Anyway, 12 months from now I'm expecting players like Hoban, Duffy and Egan to be pressing for a squad place, maybe more. Mick had Alan Kelly playing at a high level but still gave caps early in his tenure to Shay. If we're to call up 4 keepers why not Lawlor or Henderson rather than 4 quite seasoned keepers? It's been unimaginative.

This is something that has really annoyed me about MON.
Bringing back Shay Given was ridiculous. Shay is 39 and has no future in the team after this campaign. I'd understand if we had an injury crisis at the time but we didn't. Westwood has been a regular for Sheff Wed all season while Shay warmed the bench. Westwood should have been given his chance, a few more caps under his belt & establish himself as our No.1 for the next few campaigns. Randolph & Henderson were both playing regularly too.

The team/squad has been crying out for energetic youthful players, but MON goes for the old "reliables" Given, Murphy, Kelly, Green, Sammon etc.
When young lads who are the future of the team (good or bad) are ignored. Hoban, Doherty, Williams, Egan, Kavanagh, Kiernan etc.

From our U19 squad that reached the Euro semi finals in 2011 only Hendrick has been given a chance. Granted some of the others haven't set the world a light, but sometimes you just have to give youth a chance.
When you compare that U19 squad to the Spanish squad that beat us in the semi final, they've had 5 players go on to be capped at senior level.
The majority of that U19 team then went on the beat the Italian U21 team in 2012 which had Gabbiadini, Immobile, El Shaarawy, & Perin who've all been capped by Italy since.

Trap had no interest in youth, MON seems to be going down the same route.
We need someone in charge who's not afraid to use young players & drop the "names" in the squad, if we take a few beatings along the way so be it. Is it much different from what's been happening lately??

[Eminence Grise]

The team look scared. They've looked scared for a long time, certainly post Euros and realistically before them. It's a deep-seated, chronic problem that may require disposing of certain players and ways or thinking - or maybe not. But either way, it has to be looked at long-term rather than game-to-game.

I couldn't agree more. We have players with midranking Premiership clubs who show no fear when they're up against Chelsea and Arsenal and the like. Put on the green, and it's a different story: confidence has leached out of the team, and it's not helped by successive managers griping that the players aren't good enough. I've said here a few times that the team needs a psychologist to sort this out, but maybe that low esteem is too ingrained in some players at this stage and a ruthless cull might be just as good.


We need someone in charge who's not afraid to use young players & drop the "names" in the squad, if we take a few beatings along the way so be it. Is it much different from what's been happening lately??

Again, I couldn't agree more. If they're good enough, they're old enough. Young players may have the fearlessness we need to take risks, or try new things. And there's every chance that being a regular international with 10-20 caps by the time they're 23 might put them in the window for moving to better clubs. Would it be such a bad thing if we had a reputation as a nation that gave youth its fling? Messrs Bamford, Grealish and so on might want to weigh up the attractiveness of being seasoned internationals against waiting 3 or 4 years for an England call-up.

[Eminence Grise]

For arguments sake, if MON were to step down after Ireland fail to qualify, who would be the front runner as next man up? Is there one?

I suppose the same old names would be trotted out - Mick, Dave O'Leary, Pat Fenlon as the token LoI suggestion; a slew of mediocre Championship level managers; maybe Troussier as IMS says. No more than playing unheralded youth, I'd rather see a manager from left of field - a complete unknown even - with an eye for a young player who can instil confidence and adopt 2 or 3 formations than some tired old has-been who's been around too long.

But we'll probably get whoever returns Ray Houghton's call first!

[Yard of Pace]

Didn't our U-21s get beaten by an England C team recently? Our squad is fine. IMO, if MON left Hoolahan on, took off Murphy for Long on 50mins and then put on Keane for Walters after another 10 minutes we'd have gotten our goal and none of this soul-searching, radical idea-making would be going on. International football is generally awful and the pick of managers seems to be awful too. Wes is an excellent little schemer but our team is just missing that world-class or almost world-class player to drag us up and get us the wins we need. Hopefully someone comes through.

[tetsujin1979]

I think you get the point though. It's not something O'Neill would do. Can't prove it, but there's enough circumstantial evidence.
Fair enough, but he did take Lawlor to the States last year

[IsMiseSean]

maybe Troussier as IMS says. No more than playing unheralded youth, I'd rather see a manager from left of field - a complete unknown even - with an eye for a young player who can instil confidence and adopt 2 or 3 formations than some tired old has-been who's been around too long.

But we'll probably get whoever returns Ray Houghton's call first!

Our underage managers have basically been FAI yes men for years. Givens, King, Doolin. Our U21/U19 managers should be someone who has a realistic chance of becoming senior manager. Kerr is the exception.
Of our recently retired players I'm not sure which ones have gone into coaching but these guys should be considered for our underage teams.
Wouldn't the U21 job have been perfect for Roy? But perhaps not for his ego. Even Stan was thrown in at the deep end.

And the Troussier comment was in jest ;)

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't our U-21s get beaten by an England C team recently? Our squad is fine. IMO, if MON left Hoolahan on, took off Murphy for Long on 50mins and then put on Keane for Walters after another 10 minutes we'd have gotten our goal and none of this soul-searching, radical idea-making would be going on. International football is generally awful and the pick of managers seems to be awful too. Wes is an excellent little schemer but our team is just missing that world-class or almost world-class player to drag us up and get us the wins we need. Hopefully someone comes through.if that side was similar to the side that played England a few days later, they were only just qualified for u21, IE at the start of their 2 year cycle.

[davidatrb]

I suppose the same old names would be trotted out - Mick, Dave O'Leary, Pat Fenlon as the token LoI suggestion; a slew of mediocre Championship level managers; maybe Troussier as IMS says. No more than playing unheralded youth, I'd rather see a manager from left of field - a complete unknown even - with an eye for a young player who can instil confidence and adopt 2 or 3 formations than some tired old has-been who's been around too long.

But we'll probably get whoever returns Ray Houghton's call first!

Roy Keane, Mick McCarthy and Owen Coyle are most likely according to Paddypower. I cant see any of them getting it or going for it, maybe Coyle.

[geysir]

I suppose the same old names would be trotted out - Mick, Dave O'Leary, Pat Fenlon as the token LoI suggestion; a slew of mediocre Championship level managers; maybe Troussier as IMS says. No more than playing unheralded youth, I'd rather see a manager from left of field - a complete unknown even - with an eye for a young player who can instil confidence and adopt 2 or 3 formations than some tired old has-been who's been around too long.

But we'll probably get whoever returns Ray Houghton's call first!
Ray said it was Roy Hodgson way back in 2007. Everything almost signed and sealed but Fulham stepped in late in the day and offered him a real job.
AFAIR, Roy was thought of very well here at that time. I wouldn't poke fun at Ray's first choice.

[DannyInvincible]

For arguments sake, if MON were to step down after Ireland fail to qualify, who would be the front runner as next man up? Is there one?

Something similar was put to the RTE panel on Saturday evening. Brady didn't like the question and dismissed it, but Dunphy suggested Neil Lennon. Not a bad shout I thought.

[osarusan]

Philippe Troussier.
Absolutely not.

The guy is a supreme bluffer, and his formations make Trap look adventurous.

[DannyInvincible]

I've said here a few times that the team needs a psychologist to sort this out

I kind of assumed that access to or engagement with a psychologist would be part and parcel of a modern set-up. Do the FAI not employ a psycholgist at all? I assume most top-level clubs have psychologists on their payrolls?

[Charlie Darwin]

Absolutely not.

The guy is a supreme bluffer, and his formations make Trap look adventurous.
He'll still get an interview. The man's CV must be printed on sheets of gold.

[osarusan]

And the Troussier comment was in jest ;)
Phew!

[seanfhear]

Tony Pulis. Maybe he would fancy having a go at international football.

He would be looking for big men with attitude and we could delay dreams of tiki take football.

Put Em under Pressure ! ! !

[OwlsFan]

The 'write-off' suggestion has to be taken in context - I not sure anyone's said we should just forget about a qualification campaign. I certainly haven't.

What Malone was talking about was in the overall trajectory of Irish international football - an aging side, with not much apparent talent coming through, facing fourth seed status and a probable extremely tough draw in the next campaign.

His point was any long-term solution to the decline is hampered by a don't lose at all costs, qualify-or-bust attitude. I'm inclined to agree. It's not necessarily about playing Ian Lawlor or Ian Henderson or Noe Baba or whoever, or playing 352 or tika taka or any number of experiments. It's about giving the players we have the room to play football free of fear.

The team look scared. They've looked scared for a long time, certainly post Euros and realistically before them. It's a deep-seated, chronic problem that may require disposing of certain players and ways or thinking - or maybe not. But either way, it has to be looked at long-term rather than game-to-game.

When Mick McCarthy took over post-Jack, everyone knew the craic- that team was done. It was transition time and we faced an uphill task to make France 98. We made a play-off, but it was a poor campaign. Acceptable in context.

Next time out, we beat Croatia and Yugoslavia - still didn't make the finals, agonisingly, but those were some games to cheer about. Those guys didn't play with fear, they had intent, particularly at home. And next time we made it.

Those were painful years, but they had progress too and there was a feeling that the team had room to grow and improve. Granted, that team had some decent talent in it but it also maxismised its resources, something we desperately need to do.

Sometimes playing without fear comes from having nothing to lose. Scotland don't have anything to lose - things couldn't have got much worse for them and they're playing like a team who has seen darker days but knows it can play out of them. We need to find that confidence too.

I'd like to think a managerial change or picking Wes Hoolahan or going 433 would be enough to do that - but so far, it hasn't. I don't want a write off, I just want to feel like we're playing with freedom and building towards a better future rather than drawing/losing every game with no benefit.

If a manager doesn't go for the "don't lose at all costs, qualify or bust" mentality, he is very soon out of a job, especially in international football. I have always been of the firm belief that you play your best team until such time as qualification is no longer possible and the best team is nearly always made up of those playing in the EPL or sometimes the Championship and not players on loan at Bury or playing for Gillingham. There is no time in international football for a manager to "build for the future" until such time as the campaign is lost. Mick made a play-off, that bought him time to make the transition and he was able to build a team around the two Keanes.

What is playing football "free from fear" ? The Irish team doesn't look scared to me. It's like when I am watching a poor game on TV and the commentator says "both teams are nervy". It's a euphemism for not very good. Did the Scottish team play free from fear ? I think we were better than them at Lansdowne but it wasn't to be. If so, how were they different from us with their 5 points out of 6? McGeady doesn't play with fear. Brady doesn't play with fear. Hoolahan doesn't play with fear and all three would have played if McGeady wasn't injured. The other players are not as skillful as these three but they are different types of players.

I honestly don't care who or how we play, provided that we get results but I certainly don't believe that playing inferior players to those in occupancy will do anything for the results short or long term. Trap showed that organisation and discipline and guts can get you the results away from home. More than that is needed at home, which unfortunately he never seemed to grasp, but MON realises that and hence the changed formation for the recent game against the Scots but once again we failed to win at home. Fear ? I don't think so. Lack of a quality striker ? Probably and I think that this will haunt us for many years as soon as the great man hangs up his boots unless another gem is uncovered.

[paul_oshea]

tiki take football, I love it :D

While your doing your messing we'll take the points.

[Kingdom]

Ralf Rangnick ; Thomas Schaaf; Mirko Slomka; Christian Streich; Thomas Tuchel; Lucien Favre; Ron Jans; Gert Verbeek; Laszlo Boloni; Michel Preud'homme;

I'd jizz myself if any of those were Appointed (Tuchel can be discounted as he's the new Dortmund manager). They wouldn't cost what we've paid the last 2 sets of managers either.

[paul_oshea]

Owlsfan we do play without confidence when in the unknown, its called lack of experience, maturity, and it can breed a lack of self confidence. When we went ahead, as we always do, we really seem to sit back and panic. What we need is someone in midfield to just pass the ball around a bit, get on it, command the ball off people and just hold onto it for a while, even if its 5 mins of passing back and forth, do it. We also need that player to make a good hard tackle when we don't have the ball, and that will drive others on. But certainly we dont have that, but we also certainly dont seem to know what to do when we are in the "unknown".

[Stuttgart88]

I think the players do play with fear. Fear of losing the ball cheaply. Both CBs and both McCarthy and Hendrick are capable of passing the ball, and all three of our CMs on Saturday are well capable showing for the ball. None of them really did. These are just basics of the game.

OF, go to that video clip contained in the the42.ie article I linked earlier about James mcCarthy. Giles and Whelan debunking the notion that teams need a holding midfielder, and comparing Schweinsteiger to Mascherano. It's brilliant and I agreed with every word. Please, watch it!

Not all our players are afraid of the ball. Hoolahan positively craves it. Our CMs don't do enough yet at club level they are happy on the ball, play positive passes, carry the ball, head up, drive forward with it. Our CBs don't carry the ball before releasing. They play a safe pass to Whelan who'll play a safe pass to someone else who'll play a safe pass. You can't get between an opponent's defensive lines this way.

I'm anticipating a response along the lines that if you give the ball away cheaply you risk conceding. But these players are good enough to play "accretive" passes and to show for the return ball. They don't do it. Because they lack the confidence / courage. This goes all the way back to the Jack-era accepted wisdom. "You can't pick Liam Brady because he might give the ball away" type nonsense. It's the very basic essence of football. Let your midfielders use the ball. They are the specialists at it. Steven Reid used to do it on the rare occasions we saw him. Andy Reid used to love the ball. Wes does. Others hide from it. I used to "snooker" myself to avoid receiving the ball. Some of our better players do too.

I distinctly remember Trap, early in his tenure, telling Dunne to carry the ball from defence 10 more metres before releasing. That didn't last long though, before long ball became more of our default style under Trap.

That's what I call playing with fear. A lack of willingness to do what a professional CB or professional CM ought to do as a very fundamental part of their position. We absolutely play with fear, no question.

So, where OF thinks we're simply short a goalscorer I'd argue (like I have for years) that we really lack a proper confident, assertive, accretive central midfielder. Everything else is good enough, more or less. A Giles, Keane or Souness would transform this team. Whelan too maybe. We need a main man in the middle. We don't have one.

[Stuttgart88]

Ralf Rangnick ; Thomas Schaaf; Mirko Slomka; Christian Streich; Thomas Tuchel; Lucien Favre; Ron Jans; Gert Verbeek; Laszlo Boloni; Michel Preud'homme;

I'd jizz myself if any of those were Appointed (Tuchel can be discounted as he's the new Dortmund manager). They wouldn't cost what we've paid the last 2 sets of managers either.


You're just showing off. What about Paul Jewell?

[Stuttgart88]

Absolutely not.

The guy is a supreme bluffer, and his formations make Trap look adventurous.
I'm certain that was a p1ss take that you just fell for hook line and sinker.

[geysir]

So, where OF thinks we're simply short a goalscorer I'd argue (like I have for years) that we really lack a proper confident, assertive, accretive central midfielder. Everything else is good enough, more or less. A Giles, Keane or Souness would transform this team. Whelan too maybe. We need a main man in the middle. We don't have one.
Yes Stutts, we don't have one, that is the issue, you have argued yourself into a corner.
But we are also short of a goalscorer. Robbie Keane was a goalscorer supreme who made up for deficiencies elsewhere in the team.

[Olé Olé]

It's probably too easy to draw these contrasts/comparisons with NI but how have they managed to make David Healy and Kyle Lafferty look like international predators whilst MON whinges about not having another Robbie?

I don't have the answer to that and I won't pretend I do either. Fair play to Murphy etc. but I thought we were crying out for McClean and Long's direct running to be combined with Hoolahan's guile. That's why I'm still baffled by MON's selection. I haven't overcome that yet to be able to consider the bigger picture in a clear frame of mind.

[bennocelt]

Something similar was put to the RTE panel on Saturday evening. Brady didn't like the question and dismissed it, but Dunphy suggested Neil Lennon. Not a bad shout I thought.

Ah jesus Danny will you stop

Philippe Troussier. that joke never gets old:D

[SwanVsDalton]

If a manager doesn't go for the "don't lose at all costs, qualify or bust" mentality, he is very soon out of a job, especially in international football. I have always been of the firm belief that you play your best team until such time as qualification is no longer possible and the best team is nearly always made up of those playing in the EPL or sometimes the Championship and not players on loan at Bury or playing for Gillingham. There is no time in international football for a manager to "build for the future" until such time as the campaign is lost. Mick made a play-off, that bought him time to make the transition and he was able to build a team around the two Keanes.


Decent points OF - certainly having a manager under the gun doesn't encourage long-termism, and that comes right from the financial pressure the FAI are under to qualify. But a long-term attitude to building the right attitude into our international football team is crucial. If we qualify for Russia along the way great, but we have to set out sights higher and allow a manager to make that transition.

Mick had that transitional period, and I think he would've had it even if he didn't make a play-off (which he very nearly didn't, with Lithunia breathing down our necks).


What is playing football "free from fear" ? The Irish team doesn't look scared to me. It's like when I am watching a poor game on TV and the commentator says "both teams are nervy". It's a euphemism for not very good. Did the Scottish team play free from fear ? I think we were better than them at Lansdowne but it wasn't to be. If so, how were they different from us with their 5 points out of 6? McGeady doesn't play with fear. Brady doesn't play with fear. Hoolahan doesn't play with fear and all three would have played if McGeady wasn't injured. The other players are not as skillful as these three but they are different types of players.

I disagree - when players are scared to get on the ball in advanced areas, to go for one-twos, to really keep the pressure on a team when we're building momentum, then I think it shows fear. And our players are all guilty of failures in that regard.

McGeady, for instance, will happily stand put his foot on the ball, try and dance past a couple of players and swing a cross in. But sometimes he's equally guilty of slowing the ball up, instead of bursting into space when a possible counter is on - of really backing his pace and skill.

If we look at players like Coleman and McCarthy, they're not reaching the heights we need them to consistently. The point's been made in other posts (and Stutts made a good one about specifcally a centre mid) but the difference in international football is often just one quality player taking a game by the scruff. Bale, Ibrahimovic, Alaba, Lewandowski, even Shaun Maloney.

Granted, these are often attackers, but Coleman and McCarthy have that matchwinning, rally-the-troops potential and we're not getting it unlocked. I think that's down to pressure and fear.


I honestly don't care who or how we play, provided that we get results but I certainly don't believe that playing inferior players to those in occupancy will do anything for the results short or long term. Trap showed that organisation and discipline and guts can get you the results away from home. More than that is needed at home, which unfortunately he never seemed to grasp, but MON realises that and hence the changed formation for the recent game against the Scots but once again we failed to win at home. Fear ? I don't think so. Lack of a quality striker ? Probably and I think that this will haunt us for many years as soon as the great man hangs up his boots unless another gem is uncovered.

When the quality's not there, it's not there. It's a fair cop.

But Scotland and Poland (even with Lewandowski) are doing more with their meagre resources than we are. If they can play with some measure of composure and expressiveness, why can't we?

I don't think it's a coincidence that these teams have faced far darker days recently than we have, and that their team's have been released of some measure of expecation. They rebuilt from the bottom and regained their confidence. They lost a measure of their fear.

This post is increasingly sounding like a pitch for a new Christopher Nolan Batman movie, and if that's the case the Trapattoni's The Riddler and Martin O'Neill is getting a bit Dr Hugo Strange on it...

[osarusan]

I'm certain that was a p1ss take that you just fell for hook line and sinker.
Looks that way!

It's just a reflex reaction with me. My eyelid starts twitching and everything.

[paul_oshea]

Is everyone saying we need that midfielder to complement Hoolahan, or replace him? Because Hoolahan is doing a decent job, and everyone is saying he should be included in our team, if we were replacing him, seeing as he is the only one who can "play ball" that's a strange one.

[Eminence Grise]

And the Troussier comment was in jest ;)

Thank heavens! I wasn't sure, so that's why I put him at the end of an increasingly desperate list!:D

[Charlie Darwin]

McGeady, for instance, will happily stand put his foot on the ball, try and dance past a couple of players and swing a cross in. But sometimes he's equally guilty of slowing the ball up, instead of bursting into space when a possible counter is on - of really backing his pace and skill.

If we look at players like Coleman and McCarthy, they're not reaching the heights we need them to consistently. The point's been made in other posts (and Stutts made a good one about specifcally a centre mid) but the difference in international football is often just one quality player taking a game by the scruff. Bale, Ibrahimovic, Alaba, Lewandowski, even Shaun Maloney.
I think that's possibly something MON tried to address when he played McGeady behind the striker in Germany. Similar to how Mick tried Duff in a free role for a long time in his early tenure before eventually just sticking him up front. Problem was MON never told McGeady that was the role he had in mind for him.

[Fixer82]

Am I the only one who feels Whelan is used as a scapegoat for this Irish team?
He looked for the ball more than McCarthy in the game, had a decent shot in the first half and was left on his own to try to stop Anya and Maloney linking up for the goal when others around him seemed to fall asleep.
The Scottish midfield had nothing likt the control they had in Glasgow when Whelan was missing

[Charlie Darwin]

Whelan's always been a scapegoat. Granted, he's had some bad games for us, but we always play worse when he's not there.

[Fixer82]

I thought he was more positive on Saturday than normal. I've watched the game back and he certainly in the first half was getting the ball forward and screaming for a pass to get on the ball.

To be honest, we battered Scotland. We just switched off for 30 seconds and couldn't score that second goal. Overall we played pretty well and at times played some of the best football we've played so far in this campaign.
But I do wish MON had left Hoolahan on

[DannyInvincible]

Am I the only one who feels Whelan is used as a scapegoat for this Irish team?
He looked for the ball more than McCarthy in the game, had a decent shot in the first half and was left on his own to try to stop Anya and Maloney linking up for the goal when others around him seemed to fall asleep.
The Scottish midfield had nothing likt the control they had in Glasgow when Whelan was missing

I know Stutts agrees with you. I've come round to appreciating him and his role more. I don't like the type of criticism he receives either; it nears the level of hateful abuse from some. That's not on. He shed tears when he scored against Italy. You can only warm to passion like that if you're a well-wisher/supporter of the team.

[DannyInvincible]

Bar staunton's campaigns(and looking like this one) we have always been there and thereabouts heading into the last couple of games, we should always be looking to be there or thereabouts coming into the last game.

I envisage qualification being mathematically possible going into the last week of the group. That's not to say I see us grasping it by toppling Germany and/or Poland, but we'll pick up six points in our next two games and I sense other results will at least ensure qualification is still a possibility for us then.

Not sure if it's been posted already, but here's what needs to happen if we are to miraculously qualify: http://www.balls.ie/football/what-ireland-need-to-do-to-qualify-for-euro-2016-following-scotland-draw/296878

Do Carlsberg do pipe-dreams?

[DannyInvincible]

I thought he was more positive on Saturday than normal. I've watched the game back and he certainly in the first half was getting the ball forward and screaming for a pass to get on the ball.

To be honest, we battered Scotland. We just switched off for 30 seconds and couldn't score that second goal. Overall we played pretty well and at times played some of the best football we've played so far in this campaign.

You can re-watch it all you want, but it'll only ingrain the false impression that we were dominant in this game. To have truly grasped just how crap we were, you'd have needed to have been viewing from the lofty vantage point of Paul's seat. :)

[mark12345]

For arguments sake, if MON were to step down after Ireland fail to qualify, who would be the front runner as next man up? Is there one?

Let me give you a scenario Mr Crosby. Martin O'Neill steps down next Monday morning - doesn't even wait for this campaign to end. I am appointed as new manager of Ireland and I call my three longest serving players together for a meeting (on how we are going to approach the next campaign - ie the one that is going to take us to Russia 2018). I ask one question of all of you three and it's this: "How do we go further in the competition (World Cup 2018) than Brazil?" That is something you have to provide me with an answer with. Think about it. Do you say - "no way boss, it's just not going to happen" Do you say "let us put a plan in place and bring through as many players as possible" or do you say "let us change completely the way we approach the game". Or better still, do you say: "this cannot be achieved in two years - we need to put a realistic plan in place to achieve this goal, something which is realistic over seven or eight years." Now there's a mountain load of responsibility for you. WHat would you do? I would be interested to know your thoughts and other peoples' thoughts

[mark12345]

Let me give you a scenario Mr Crosby. Martin O'Neill steps down next Monday morning - doesn't even wait for this campaign to end. I am appointed as new manager of Ireland and I call my three longest serving players together for a meeting (on how we are going to approach the next campaign - ie the one that is going to take us to Russia 2018). I ask one question of all of you three and it's this: "How do we go further in the competition (World Cup 2018) than Brazil?" That is something you have to provide me with an answer with. Think about it. Do you say - "no way boss, it's just not going to happen" Do you say "let us put a plan in place and bring through as many players as possible" or do you say "let us change completely the way we approach the game". Or better still, do you say: "this cannot be achieved in two years - we need to put a realistic plan in place to achieve this goal, something which is realistic over seven or eight years." Now there's a mountain load of responsibility for you. WHat would you do? I would be interested to know your thoughts and other peoples' thoughts

Forgot to say Crosby that you were one of my longest serving players and one of the three at the meeting

[tricky_colour]

I thought he was more positive on Saturday than normal. I've watched the game back and he certainly in the first half was getting the ball forward and screaming for a pass to get on the ball.

To be honest, we battered Scotland. We just switched off for 30 seconds and couldn't score that second goal. Overall we played pretty well and at times played some of the best football we've played so far in this campaign.
But I do wish MON had left Hoolahan on

He never seems to get left on for Norwich he is usually subbed at around 75 mins, sometime earlier.
Maybe he just gets too knackered, but then towards the end of the game the managers usually go
for height as the game approaches the aerial bombardment stage.

[tricky_colour]

Forgot to say Crosby that you were one of my longest serving players and one of the three at the meeting

I think Crosby would want to know whether he would be flying economy or club class.