Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[zero]

is there a thread for the northern ireland game? couldn't see one.

it's on tomorrow, kick off time unknown.

[DeLorean]

is there a thread for the northern ireland game? couldn't see one.

it's on tomorrow, kick off time unknown.

It's here- (http://foot.ie/threads/200434-Rep-Ireland-v-Northern-Ireland-Thursday-June-4th/page2)

[zero]

lots of positive sounds coming out of the squad, for example ward here

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/14387/ward-confident-england-game-will-not-distract-squad-from-task-at-hand/

read similar from wilson earlier. everyone seems focused on the scotland game.

[paul_oshea]

If there is one thing I learnt from following Ireland over the years, it's words mean feck all.

[seanfhear]

If there is one thing I learnt from following Ireland over the years, it's words mean feck all.In some ways that's what sport is all about.

We play the game and the best teams do their talking on the field.

What happens on the field should be paramount and even if you are unlucky with bad (hopefully not crooked) decisions then you have to accept it.

The talking is just window dressing and poor window dressing at that.

[tetsujin1979]

Scotland beat Qatar 1-0 earlier: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=14883&newsCategoryID=1
Richie with the goal

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Start with Given, Westwood or Forde?
Give Brady another chance, go back to the well with Ward (who hasn't started since December) or move Wilson and reshuffle the CB's?
Risk starting McGeady?
Blind faith in Keane?
Start Hoolahan in a huge game?
Roll the dice with Arter, Christie or McGoldrick?
Change of formation?

A lot of big decisions to make and each seem fraught with danger.

Long ball to Walters....... Possession back with Scotland.

[DeLorean]

MON expects Hoolahan to be fine for Scotland, that he would have brought him on yesterday only that he needed to bring off John O'Shea as a precauntionary measure. Interesting comments about Robbie Keane also. There's also an article in today's Examiner about the forbidden topic for anybody interested.

The Examiner - An Irish chance would be a fine thing (Liam Mackey) (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/an-irish-chance-would-be-a-fine-thing-335198.html)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

MON expects Hoolahan to be fine for Scotland, that he would have brought him on yesterday only that he needed to bring off John O'Shea as a precauntionary measure. Interesting comments about Robbie Keane also. There's also an article in today's Examiner about the forbidden topic for anybody interested.

The Examiner - An Irish chance would be a fine thing (Liam Mackey) (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/an-irish-chance-would-be-a-fine-thing-335198.html)

Keane doesn't score the goals. That's the problem. We are playing Scotland, not Gibraltar. If MON has found the magic youth serum that's great, but we can't afford to carry someone for 60-75 minutes and just hope he scores because of his stats. He touched the ball about 8 times against Poland. And now he isn't even fully fit FFS!

I would say that Roy Hodgson, Gareth Southgate, in particular and the English FA know a lot more than John Fallon on that issue. Fallon has already been caught out several times when he has tried to break anything other than a platitude relating to the issue. As if a spoofer journalist is going to know more than everyone else on the issue.

I find Hodgson more trustworthy than a couple of other of people when it comes to this issue, but hey, events speak for themselves.

[Charlie Darwin]

Fallon's been spot on with everything as far as I can tell.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Did a certain someone here send a tweet to Gordon Waddell telling The Daily Record to reword a sentence about a certain current Ireland international?

:laugh:

[OwlsFan]

Start with Given, Westwood or Forde?
Give Brady another chance, go back to the well with Ward (who hasn't started since December) or move Wilson and reshuffle the CB's?
Risk starting McGeady?
Blind faith in Keane?
Start Hoolahan in a huge game?
Roll the dice with Arter, Christie or McGoldrick?
Change of formation?

A lot of big decisions to make and each seem fraught with danger.

Long ball to Walters....... Possession back with Scotland.

He will start with Given.

He will play Brady.

Don't see a risk in starting McGeady.

I don't think he has blind faith in Keane. I may be wrong but he didn't start against Scotland.

Why wouldn't he start Hoolahan in a huge game ? Do you have doubts about him having been moaning ad nauseum under the previous regime about him not being selected.

Roll the dice with Arter, Christie or McGoldrick? For.......?

Change of formation? Yes he will start with 5 in midfield with Hoolahan.

Long balls - sometimes when you have no creativity it's the only solution and we have scored a few even in this campaign from punts up the field but I am expecting a somewhat more cultured approach, that is unless/until that approach has got us no where.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

No. I personally would have a lot of faith in Hoolahan if he was selected to play. I certainly wouldn't be "moaning ad nauseum" about it.

No need for the insulting tone. It's uncalled for.

[paul_oshea]

Fallon has been caught out, saying this will happen and that will happen, and such and such spoke and sources etc. Only for Jack to come out all surprised on his twitter account, and for Fallon's articles to be well off.

[Charlie Darwin]

Fallon's source all along has been Grealish Sr and he's always set his articles in that context. That Jack has had to put his dad back in his box on a couple of occasions doesn't mean Fallon has reported him incorrectly.

[tetsujin1979]

No. I personally would have a lot of faith in Hoolahan if he was selected to play. I certainly wouldn't be "moaning ad nauseum" about it.

No need for the insulting tone. It's uncalled for.
there's nothing insulting there. grow up.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sunderlands-john-oshea-fitness-battle-9407811

We are f***ed if O'Shea misses this game. You only realize how important the big lug is when he isn't there.

[seanfhear]

Martin O'Neil should have the cahunas to leave Shay Given on the bench for this game.

He is in poor form recovering from injury and past it (except for that he is fine)

[DannyInvincible]

The O'Shea worry sounds minor enough, having read O'Neill's words. He says the "calf is tightening up". It's a common problem in athletes (http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/sport-injuries/ankle-achilles-shin-pain/tight-calf-muscles). He hasn't tweaked/pulled it. Hopefully, some rest, massage and stretching will help, but I wouldn't be overly concerned just yet. If he's suffered from it in the past and been able to pull through, you'd hope for the same by next Saturday. Think the Chronicle is probably squeezing as much out of it as they can.

[SwanVsDalton]

He'll play Given, he shouldn't but I'd be surprised he Given wasn't our keeper now until the end of the campaign barring injury or him inexplicably throwing the ball into the net.

Think he'll play:
-----------------Given----------------
Coleman---O'Shea--Wilson---Brady

McGeady--Whelan--McCarthy-McClean

---------Walters-----Long----------

Only question is over Keane or Hoolahan - but I think he'll leave the pair in reserve and hope two up top, one physical the other mobile, with two wingers will cause Scotland more problems from the start.

[paul_oshea]

Ya I have a feeling he is thinking along the same lines, if its not working out bring on some fresh players to try and open them up, but I'd think he would not start McClean and spring him from the bench for the impetus he offers, and bring on hoolahan or keane too. I'd say one of Keane or hoolahan would start for that reason. I do still see along the same lines of what he is thinking, just not necessarily the exact same formation :)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

O'Shea winning fitness battle ahead of crunch Scotland clash.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/ireland-v-scotland-john-oshea-5846077

Hey look at that! Brynmor Pattison also includes something called QUOTES and doesn't refer vaguely to dubious sources. How about that? Proper journalism is alive and well after all!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I think it will be a significantly more straightforward test for Scotland if you subtract the pace, penetration and directness of Long & McClean and add Keane & Walters. It's food for thought if Whelan - and in the interest of balance - Hoolahan all feature too. I have looked at Ireland teams recently and wondered where the pace is going to come from. It's a very slow team in places. Add to this, Scotland will be fully clued up on McGeady, in particular, and he has never been the most unpredictable of wide players.

I am certain that Walters will start somewhere. The noises I am hearing indicate Keane is favorite to feature from the start.

[Stuttgart88]

He'll play Given, he shouldn't but I'd be surprised he Given wasn't our keeper now until the end of the campaign barring injury or him inexplicably throwing the ball into the net.

Think he'll play:
-----------------Given----------------
Coleman---O'Shea--Wilson---Brady

McGeady--Whelan--McCarthy-McClean

---------Walters-----Long----------

Only question is over Keane or Hoolahan - but I think he'll leave the pair in reserve and hope two up top, one physical the other mobile, with two wingers will cause Scotland more problems from the start.Im not sure. That was the approach he took in Glasgow with the difference in personnel being explained by injury or suspension. Whelan and McCarthy were injured. Given has come into the team despite looking a shadow of his former self. Brady has overtaken Ward at left back, at least when O'Neill wants an attacking full back. Brady's set pieces pretty much cement his place in the team.

So, on the argument that it's essentially a like-for-like to what he picked in Glasgow, surely the fact of Scotland's ability to play between our lines via both Naismith and Mulgrew dictates against doing similar this time? McGeady said recently that we played to their strengths up there, or he said something like that anyway.

Im pretty sure he will pick Hoolahan and although I think there's a fair bit of truth to TOWK's contention that Walters is a fixture in O'Neill's plans, I'm not convinced he'll start this time. Bear in mind I think he was only picked in Germany to protect Meyler at full back, weakening the argument that O'Neill picks him all the time. I think O'Neill admitted he was too conservative in Georgia too.

I think it'll be Long upfront, the usual midfield 4, plus Hoolahan in between. If he does go 442 I wouldn't be surprised if Murphy gets the nod over Walters. Good in the air and much sharper based on yesterday's evidence.

Glasgow showed that O'Neill can be flexible (no Keane) but at the same time capable of being outthought by Strachan.

[DannyInvincible]

The noises I am hearing indicate Keane is favorite to feature from the start.

Where are the noises coming from? Someone on the inside?

[paul_oshea]

I hope oneill gets the subs in on the 60min mark or so if things aren't working out and not waiting till late like usual.

[Stuttgart88]

I hope we're 2 nil up after 60 minutes and any subsequent substitutions don't automatically concede initiative.

[Crosby87]

Robertson: Me confident, loose waiting for silly Irish team.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12017/9877834/hull-defender-andrew-robertson-insists-scotland-are-confident-ahead-of-ireland-clash

[Charlie Darwin]

I hope we pulverise them and make their children cry. And make some substitutions.

[geysir]

I want poetic justice as well as pulverisation and a generation scarred for .. eternity.
McGeady and McCarthy to score a brace.

[SwanVsDalton]

Im not sure. That was the approach he took in Glasgow with the difference in personnel being explained by injury or suspension. Whelan and McCarthy were injured. Given has come into the team despite looking a shadow of his former self. Brady has overtaken Ward at left back, at least when O'Neill wants an attacking full back. Brady's set pieces pretty much cement his place in the team.

So, on the argument that it's essentially a like-for-like to what he picked in Glasgow, surely the fact of Scotland's ability to play between our lines via both Naismith and Mulgrew dictates against doing similar this time? McGeady said recently that we played to their strengths up there, or he said something like that anyway.

Decent point, but I think the personnel above don't necessarily have to play as flat as we played in Glasgow, when we naturally a bit more (a bit too conservative).

Whelan sitting deeper should allow McCarthy a bit of extra freedom, and I'd imagine Long could drop a bit deeper when Scotland have the ball. But I do think O'Neill might favour wingers to play test the Scottish defence early up against two strikers.

I'd love to see him start Hoolahan, and go 4-4-1-1 or thereabouts, but not convinced he will.

[DeLorean]

I'm with Stutts on that one, not so much that it won't be the team, but that it shouldn't be the team. I don't think Whelan's presence would offer McCarthy much licence to do anything when it's just the two of them in there, outnumbered as usual. Not only is it very similar to the mistakes made in Glasgow, although I accept the more established personnel should help, but it's also a carbon copy of what we had under Trap, for a couple of years after what should have been it's sell by date. If MON picks that team we might as well have given Trap another campaign!

I actually thought Hendrick did very well the other day, in an unspectacular way. He kept Milner (who was invariably the guy picking him up) very busy and generally used the ball confidently and efficiently when in possession, bar one poor pass that was intercepted when slotted into his less favourable role in the second half. Does the fact that he was one of the few to get ninety minutes under his belt (having been out of action longer than most) mean anything I wonder? I think it might although maybe he might have been the one replaced by Hoolahan if O'Shea didn't get injured. I think by playing Hendrick it gives us more substance in midfield as he's a solid unit in there and naturally covers the ground to help both McCarthy and Whelan, but also Coleman, who might need it on Saturday.

O'Neill looks to be getting fairly close to the team I would prefer (he's clearly starting to understand the game a bit better :p). It was very much a 4-2-3-1 in the first half the other day and it looked a good shape, we were very solid even if England did look half paced.

I think McGeady done enough in the first half to put himself in the frame and if MON does choose Hendrick over McClean, which I think is likely, it allows McGeady to play on the left of the three, where I think he's more effective. Ideally, I'd love to see him go with this and think he might, although leaving Walters out would be my biggest question mark. That could well be more hope than expectation, and I don't mean anything against Walters by saying that, just a personal preference.


----------------- Westwood ------------------

Coleman ---- O'Shea -------- Wilson ---- Brady

------------ McCarthy ------- Whelan ---------

--- Hendrick ----- Hoolahan ------ McGeady ---

------------------- Long ----------------------


Just a couple of little things with regards the England game. I thought Brady was brilliant defensively, winning headers and arguably the only player on the pitch getting really stuck in. Even if his set pieces were rubbish, he'd still be my first choice left back. On that note, why is McGeady taking the corners, especially the ones on the right? I know Brady has a lot of ground to cover after taking them from that side but it's a total waste of a good position to have anybody other than him whipping them in.

Our players need to try to make themselves available to receive the pass a bit more, there were numerous occasions on Sunday when Coleman, in particular, and also McCarthy and McGoldrick were left isolated in possession and almost had to dribble through a few players, inevitably losing or almost losing possession. I think we might have got away with it a couple of times when the referee gave us (undeserved) free kicks. Hoolahan would help this no end and simply has to start.

We need to find a way to get Coleman into the game in an attacking sense more, he's simply not the same threat that he is for Everton.

McCarthy played one Scholes or Pirlo-esque pass out the wing to McGeady in the first half, he's certainly not lacking technical ability but must find the confidence to do it more. I think it's coming though.

The jeering of GSTQ was disappointing but the applause made up for it, and the English supporters appreciated it and did the same at the end of Amhrán na bhFiann. It was a subtle, but nice, response to the morons.

Speaking of the morons, I think I actually went red with embarrassment when they started booing Sterling. Cring x 100 :o

[Olé Olé]

Decent point, but I think the personnel above don't necessarily have to play as flat as we played in Glasgow, when we naturally a bit more (a bit too conservative).

Whelan sitting deeper should allow McCarthy a bit of extra freedom, and I'd imagine Long could drop a bit deeper when Scotland have the ball. But I do think O'Neill might favour wingers to play test the Scottish defence early up against two strikers.

I'd love to see him start Hoolahan, and go 4-4-1-1 or thereabouts, but not convinced he will.

It's very hard to put Hoolahan into the side, isn't it? Well, from O'Neill's perspective anyway. I think Whelan and McCarthy are the most defensively sound and secure pairing we have. So, play 3 in midfield and include Hoolahan? But O'Neill likes two wingers so that means we only have one striker, which is not ideal when we struggle for goals and are playing at home to a side like Scotland that don't pose the attacking threat of a stronger nation. It also means pushing Hoolahan forward to a number 10 role. I prefer Hoolahan in a very slightly deeper role, a number 8 role if you will, because it ensures we retain the ball in front of the sitting players and gives space for Hoolahan's often under-estimated movement (he ghosts).

If I were picking my side, I'd go with the following:
Given
Coleman O'Shea Wilson Brady
McCarthy Hoolahan Whelan
Long Walters/Murphy McGeady

A 4-3-3 with Long on the right, as he played quite a bit for Southampton with Walters up through the middle but could rotate with Long and McGeady on the left with a licence to drift in.

[paul_oshea]

I like that but I'd change it to 4-2-1-3. I really like that actually, Long, coleman and Mcgeady/McClean can play fast counter attacking football, if hoolahan sits directly in front of mccarthy and whelan he can spray the ball out to the wings for long, mcgeady or Coleman. We have 2 others running from midfield then into the box. I think speed is what would upset the scots, they would defend easy against high balls and against little wes in a 10 role, but they would definitely struggle with the pace of Long, McClean/McGeady and Coleman coming at them, what we have been lacking and not utilising our speedy players effectively enough is someone in midfield to spray the ball out to the wings quickly, either side, open up the midfield turn into space and spray the pass for our fast wingers, wing backs to run onto.

[geysir]

I would prefer if Brady could be unshackled from the LB role and play up with the midfield,
have a Brady Hoolahan McGeady trio.
I didn't notice Brady too much (offensively) in the game against England, apart from the free kicks.
Maybe he got up and down the line and I didn't take notice, he isn't exactly a bustling, bulldog, Terry Phelan type, is he?
We are sacrificing a skilful (a rare commodity) offensive player to fill in as a bouncer on the side door.

[Stuttgart88]

It's very hard to put Hoolahan into the side, isn't it? Well, from O'Neill's perspective anyway. I think Whelan and McCarthy are the most defensively sound and secure pairing we have. So, play 3 in midfield and include Hoolahan?

If I were picking my side, I'd go with the following:
Given
Coleman O'Shea Wilson Brady
McCarthy Hoolahan Whelan
Long Walters/Murphy McGeady

Isn't that essentially what he picked against Polsnd, except Keane in the middle, Walters to his right? I don't think he's that averse to playing Hoolahan. I can see Long starting in the lone forward role. He and Hoolahan played great against Italy and I'd happily settle now for the same quality chances we created that day, even if Quinn and Long couldn't capitalise.

[paul_oshea]

The guy over on the score seems to be thinking along the same lines.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-scotland-key-battles-2-2151454-Jun2015/

[paul_oshea]

I am slightly perturbed by O'Neill's reverb around the onus on the home team is to attack, even after Scotland and the fruitless endeavour up there, that he is insisting that we will be the attacking team much like Scotland were in celtic park. Has he not watched any of the Scotland away games, they are all about attacking, and getting at teams. Scotland won't sit back and be happy to soak up they will look to play ball and win, as they always do. We should exploit that with pace.

I mentioned after the draw that Scotlands trajectory was on an upward curve and Strachan was a good manager, a good motivator, and that they had good results against bigger teams, especially away from home, I felt that they had a better "team" than us, and with Strachan they had the edge - I was guffawed by CD and others for this. I still feel they have that edge, I'm just hoping for the first time in about 8 years we go out and attack them from the start, a bit like the wales and slovakia home games under Stan.

[DeLorean]

Did he actually say that Scotland are likely to sit back and defend?

[paul_oshea]

No, but he said the onus is on the home team to attack, like he said when we were going over there, and that's what Scotland did to us. I think he reads European qualification like a 2 leg Club European game, I think that's a bit naive(for a start no away goals to get you through, head to head I know), along with his interpretation of friendlies and results, and FIFAs ranking system.

[jbyrne]

as the cliché goes the best form of defence is attack. when we took the game to Poland in the 2nd half they hardly threatened us at all

[Stuttgart88]

Strachan played Anya at RB against Qatar, although he is a left winger ordinarily. I'm wondering was he just giving him game time on the RHS in case he wants him to switch sides to attack a possible weakness, namely Brady? Anya's attacking threat definitely led to Coleman playing cautiously in Glasgow, although I think he was out of sorts anyway.

[DeLorean]

No, but he said the onus is on the home team to attack, like he said when we were going over there, and that's what Scotland did to us. I think he reads European qualification like a 2 leg Club European game, I think that's a bit naive(for a start no away goals to get you through, head to head I know), along with his interpretation of friendlies and results, and FIFAs ranking system.

Regardless of what he said, the onus is on us to attack because we messed up in Glasgow, and dropped points to Poland. We need three points more than Scotland do, simple as that. A home draw would have been a reasonable result had we won those two games. There's no doubt we were overly conservative in Glasgow. It frustrates me even thinking about it. Scotland were hardly all-out-attack themselves though but they did make more of an attempt than us. I wouldn't be too perturbed, most of our remaining games are at home and we'll know what we need to do in Poland, so that approach will take care of itself.

It might be better for us if Anya played on the right, as Whittaker/Hutton shouldn't pose the threat on that side that Robertson will on the other. You'd imagine a Robertson/Anya double act would serve to neutralise Coleman again. We really need to get our tactics right this time. Despite being dreadful in almost every way, setup, application, attitude, etc. there was very little in the game in Glasgow, we were reasonably comfortable despite being second best. It took a world class second half save from Marshall to deny us what would have probably been wrongly portrayed as the perfect away performance. That would have been nonsense of course, but results change mindsets.

[DeLorean]

This guy seems fairly sure of the team. (https://stadium.aviva.ie/aviva-stadium-experiences/fan-blog/6194/) He's probably right too.

[Olé Olé]

This guy seems fairly sure of the team. (https://stadium.aviva.ie/aviva-stadium-experiences/fan-blog/6194/) He's probably right too.

Aye, he's gone with the exact same 11 I went with earlier. It's fairly obvious that there are 9 certainties. He is "reasonably confident" of 10 but I think Hoolahan isn't as certain as the other 9. I do think he'll go with Long ahead of Keane and I think that 11 possess enough ability and balance that is supplemented by two utterly tiresome workers in Walters and Long. I know Long and Walters were in our attack in the reverse fixture but Hoolahan, McCarthy and Whelan weren't behind them which is why I'm more confident.

Long, Walters and McClean (instead of McGeady) in attack from the start would be some way to welcome the Scots to the Aviva. That defence is there for the taking. McGeady will get his start though.

There's even an off chance he goes with McGeady and McClean with Walters up front and Hoolahan at 10. Really want Long in there and if the goal against Poland when we needed it most doesn't guarantee him a start then it's a bit hypocritical from O'Neill to rue in the media the fact that we don't score enough.

Getting more excited as I type this...

EDIT: That's an almost entirely PL 11. 10 for 2014/15 and 10 for 2015/2016 with Brady down and Hoolahan up in the intervening period. Brady isn't not PL quality either.

[Stuttgart88]

I read Brady is a Norwich target, but only speculation obviously.

[colonelwest]

He'll play Given, he shouldn't but I'd be surprised he Given wasn't our keeper now until the end of the campaign barring injury or him inexplicably throwing the ball into the net.

-----------------Given----------------
Coleman---O'Shea--Wilson---Brady

McGeady--Whelan--McCarthy-McClean

---------Walters-----Long----------

Only question is over Keane or Hoolahan - but I think he'll leave the pair in reserve and hope two up top, one physical the other mobile, with two wingers will cause Scotland more problems from the start.

I think he'll go with:

-----------------Given----------------
Coleman---O'Shea--Wilson---Brady

----------Whelan--McCarthy----
Walters--------Weso----------McGeady

--------------Keane-------------



McClean and Long to come on and stretch the game last half hour then.

Long's record at both club and int level is roughly 1 in 4, don't have the time today to look at our strikers going back over the years but bar Robbie they'd be of similar ilk I'd say. Long definitely gives the work rate and movement but Robbie really is the exception to the rule up front for us finishing/ goals wise & as long as he's playing some sort of competitive football he'll be wheeled out Fr. Nestor Sensini style.

[Olé Olé]

I read Brady is a Norwich target, but only speculation obviously.

Speaking of the promoted sides, Bournemouth have a hole in their side for a left-footed, Irish free-kick taker. Brady could fill that.. not the hole itself but the position.

[paul_oshea]

He's filled enough holes already this season.

[Olé Olé]

Wouldn't be surprised if Robbie got the start but I think this is the exact game where he should go with Long. Take the game to the Scots immediately because, as DeLorean infers (I think), we were almost chasing the game from the start in Scotland, even if the scoreboard said otherwise. There's something soothing, from an Irish perspective, about about Hoolahan, Whelan and McCarthy retaining possession with Long seriously stretching the Scottish back four. Walters is a MON favourite but I like him too. I think if we play a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 then there is plenty flexibility there allowing Long and Walters to swap and even McGeady and Hoolahan, even if Hoolahan is somewhat tucked in there.

Scotland aren't that good. I have huge respect for Robbie Keane but we shouldn't be relying on him to nick a goal and contribute little else. I think we're capable of taking the game to Scotland and unnerving a very average defence. We should set up like that.

I wish I could go to sleep and wake up Saturday...