Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[Stuttgart88]

Serbs lose 4-0 in U21 finals tonight. Crisis!

Elsewhere, I do love WWN.

Nation Slowly Accepting We're A Bit S**t At Football (http://bit.ly/1NedGP8)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/new-mcgrath-or-keane-first-irish-soccer-must-escape-time-warp-1.2256451


On Saturday evening, Eamon Dunphy (http://www.irishtimes.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Eamon%20Dunphy&article=true) sounded melancholy when he spoke fondly about the Dublin schoolboy’s league as a model which just doesn’t work anymore. Dunphy is a romantic at heart and wants to live to see Ireland produce another midfielder of the calibre of his friends John Giles and Liam Brady: footballers capable of wowing the connoisseurs. He recalled that in a recent conversation with Brian Kerr, he asked the former Ireland manager a question concerning the Irish player through which he channels so much of his despair: “What does Glenn Whelan (http://www.irishtimes.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Glenn%20Whelan&article=true) do?”

What doesn't he do....

[tetsujin1979]

well seeing as you didn't quote the answer, here it is

Whelan went from Cherry Orchard to Manchester as a kid. Willo Flood and Paddy McCarthy were with him there and with virtually no fanfare he has, at the age of 31, survived the odds to make a highly lucrative career as a hard-working, uncomplicated, never fashionable Premier League midfielder.

Flimsy midfieldWhelan was the figure Trapattoni relied on to keep some sort of shape and cohesion in a flimsy Irish midfield, O’Neill has found him equally indispensable. Whelan does the thing which he realised early in life would give him the best chance of succeeding: his job. He works, he tackles, he keeps the ball moving, he does the basics, and he goes home. The highlights are few. He operates in a league filled with players infinitely more talented than he is but still he plays. That is his attribute. He can’t be what he is not. As Kerr responded: “He fills a space.” The bigger problem will become apparent when it emerges that there is no ready replacement, no grafter who on toughness and guile made it through the brutally demanding apprentice stages of English football.

[Closed Account]

well seeing as you didn't quote the answer, here it is
Imagine a scenario where Glen Whelan wasn't starting every game for Ireland and all other facts stayed the same.
We'd have a plethora of posters on here lamenting the fact that an almost ever present Premier League footballer wasn't getting his game for the national team(read same for Jon Walters). This is not a comment on eithers pros/cons, just an observation.

[Stuttgart88]

"He fills a space".

Thanks Brian! That's almost exactly how (I think) I described his role after Geksenkirchen.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcpJ-_-Pnpc

I want to blame Whelan for this since he contributes nothing from an attacking point of view even so far as being the genesis in starting to move the ball from the back to more offensive minded players and the way he charges down Maloney has a bit of the "headless chicken" about it but, honestly, what the f*** are Hendrick & Walters doing here? Particularly Walters. I keep hearing about how Walters is the square peg in the round hole because of his "defensive-mindedness". I don't see that here; he doesn't look like he knows what he is doing. Why are the defense pinned back so far? In the first minute of the second bloody half? It's like f***ing Braveheart or something.

IDK if it's Whelan's job as the more experienced, senior player, to co-ordinate the midfield and make sure everyone knows their roles and are aware of where everybody is but he has just one job to do. One job.

It's also extremely irritating to see him throw a petulant little hissy fit and take ages to get off the pitch when he is being substituted 20 minutes from full-time at home and we are chasing a result. It summed up the malaise around the last half-hour of the game. And again, as the experienced, senior player, it is up to him to set the example to the rest of them.

Good to see Hoolahan doing the basic little things well again though and tracking players runs, closing down, tackling and being the extra man in midfield. In all the games he has started so far I have seen little to vindicate the reasons he was left out to begin with.

Keane had a thankless role coming on directly for Hoolahan. I don't think it mattered whether Keane or Long came on first at that stage. The damage had been done.

[DeLorean]

"He fills a space".

Thanks Brian! That's almost exactly how (I think) I described his role after Geksenkirchen.

I actually remember that. It's a bit of a cop out though for not actually being able to articulate his actual strengths more comprehensively, that's not a dig at you by the way, or even Kerr, as I think that's what most people giving him the benefit of the doubt would say. I'd like to see if Trapattoni or Pulis would give the same vague answer. If a holding midfielder, whose only job is to protect the back four, can't fill a space then they really are worse than useless. It's an absolute minimum requirement and not really a compliment when that's all we can muster up when describing a players role. I'm not bashing Whelan here either, he does fill a space, so he's not worse than useless, but is it enough?... I'm not so sure.

[Stuttgart88]

I think we all want something more from our midfield but Whelan isn't the biggest of our midfield problems, which is not to say his limitations don't affect performance. We'd be a better team with two good central midfielders but right now I'd settle for a young Steven Reid plus Whelan.

[tricky_colour]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcpJ-_-Pnpc

I want to blame Whelan for this since he contributes nothing from an attacking point of view even so far as being the genesis in starting to move the ball from the back to more offensive minded players and the way he charges down Maloney has a bit of the "headless chicken" about it but, honestly, what the f*** are Hendrick & Walters doing here? Particularly Walters. I keep hearing about how Walters is the square peg in the round hole because of his "defensive-mindedness". I don't see that here; he doesn't look like he knows what he is doing. Why are the defense pinned back so far? In the first minute of the second bloody half? It's like f***ing Braveheart or something.

IDK if it's Whelan's job as the more experienced, senior player, to co-ordinate the midfield and make sure everyone knows their roles and are aware of where everybody is but he has just one job to do. One job.

It's also extremely irritating to see him throw a petulant little hissy fit and take ages to get off the pitch when he is being substituted 20 minutes from full-time at home and we are chasing a result. It summed up the malaise around the last half-hour of the game. And again, as the experienced, senior player, it is up to him to set the example to the rest of them.

Good to see Hoolahan doing the basic little things well again though and tracking players runs, closing down, tackling and being the extra man in midfield. In all the games he has started so far I have seen little to vindicate the reasons he was left out to begin with.

Keane had a thankless role coming on directly for Hoolahan. I don't think it mattered whether Keane or Long came on first at that stage. The damage had been done.

Interesting too to watch Naismith's role in the goal, he is instrumental to it. Just gives the ball back when he can do nothing else, then finds a better position,
goes wide at first then play it back inside into the the space created and then makes a confusing run into the box, we were all at sea at that point.
Even when watching live I was think wtf is going on here at that point!

[Crosby87]

Whelan grew up in a cherry orchard?

[tricky_colour]

He was only a sapling then.

[DeLorean]

I think we all want something more from our midfield but Whelan isn't the biggest of our midfield problems, which is not to say his limitations don't affect performance. We'd be a better team with two good central midfielders but right now I'd settle for a young Steven Reid plus Whelan.

I'm not sure, I'd be happy enough to see him replaced by one of the other options, be it Quinn, Meyer or whoever... Well not exactly whoever but you get the point. A bit more energy in there could have a knock on effect further forward.

I don't really get statements like this...
"Whelan was the figure Trapattoni relied on to keep some sort of shape and cohesion in a flimsy Irish midfield".


So Whelan is now being excluded from the flimsiness of the midfield? That's not very fair on Andrews, Gibson, McCarthy and whoever else has partnered him post-Reid. And frankly I think it's rubbish. Whelan's limitations have contributed in no small part to it being our problem area for nearly seven years at this stage, granted he hasn't been helped by a persistence with 4-4-2 in that time, and I felt much better about him playing with the way we were set up against Scotland.

[Charlie Darwin]

I actually remember that. It's a bit of a cop out though for not actually being able to articulate his actual strengths more comprehensively, that's not a dig at you by the way, or even Kerr, as I think that's what most people giving him the benefit of the doubt would say. I'd like to see if Trapattoni or Pulis would give the same vague answer. If a holding midfielder, whose only job is to protect the back four, can't fill a space then they really are worse than useless. It's an absolute minimum requirement and not really a compliment when that's all we can muster up when describing a players role. I'm not bashing Whelan here either, he does fill a space, so he's not worse than useless, but is it enough?... I'm not so sure.
Whelan has never been a holding player for Stoke as far as I remember. There's always been somebody like Palacios or Nzonzi in there while Whelan is more of an advanced player, a role he's never had for us.

[DeLorean]

I remember they had a fairly standard 4-4-2 in the FA Cup final against Manchester City a few years back. That would have been the same role as he's played for us, alongside Rory Delap with two genuine wingers and two strikers. I presume they were generally set up that way back then?

I know they usually have more bodies in there in recent times but I must say I never thought he was a more of an advanced player, but I could easily be wrong as it's not like I check their exact formation every week. Did they not play an Everton-type system last season with himself and N'Zonzi occupying the McCarthy/Barry roles, so to speak? I was under the impression that N'Zonzi, out of the two, was the more box-to-box type with Whelan still sitting in for the most part. I would have also thought he was in direct competition with Palacios and they rarely, if ever, played together.

[tetsujin1979]

According to football-lineups, his average position over he season was on the right of a midfield two, just inside the Stoke half: http://www.football-lineups.com/footballer/9722/

[paul_oshea]

Interesting too to watch Naismith's role in the goal, he is instrumental to it. Just gives the ball back when he can do nothing else, then finds a better position,
goes wide at first then play it back inside into the the space created and then makes a confusing run into the box, we were all at sea at that point.
Even when watching live I was think wtf is going on here at that point!

Do you think then it was another worked goal on the training ground. I felt it was eerily similar to how they scored the goal in Scotland, and it was also straight after Enya(I know) came on.

[DeLorean]

Obviously things are worked on in training but even they couldn't legislate for us falling asleep (again!). It really was a killer after such an organised, committed first half where we made it really difficult for them to string anything together, even if we were limited enough ourselves.

[OwlsFan]

Serbs lose 4-0 in U21 finals tonight. Crisis!

Elsewhere, I do love WWN.

Nation Slowly Accepting We're A Bit S**t At Football (http://bit.ly/1NedGP8)

Do you reckon they deliberately put in a picture of supporters in rugby jerseys (presumably taken at a rugby game)?

[tricky_colour]

Do you think then it was another worked goal on the training ground. I felt it was eerily similar to how they scored the goal in Scotland, and it was also straight after Enya(I know) came on.

May well have been, it certainly looked pretty slick, like they knew what they were doing, our defence didn't!

[IsMiseSean]

Do you think then it was another worked goal on the training ground. I felt it was eerily similar to how they scored the goal in Scotland, and it was also straight after Enya(I know) came on.

I don't know if I'd call it a training ground move as such. It was basic link up play, pass & move (It's the Liverpool groove). Unfortunately it completely out foxed our lads...

[Stuttgart88]

Do you reckon they deliberately put in a picture of supporters in rugby jerseys (presumably taken at a rugby game)?
No, I think it was just a random picture of glum looking Irish fans.

[Desyf]

No, I think it was just a random picture of glum looking Irish fans.


I'm sure they could have found one of glum looking Irish football fans instead...

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm sure they could have found one of glum looking Irish football fans instead...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/11/article-2625452-1DC00F2C00000578-467_634x429.jpg

[Desyf]

:D :D

[DeLorean]

Bump.

[DeLorean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu-ML5oWN94

[DeLorean]

Closed thread.