Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[tetsujin1979]

Watching the game, especially the last 20 minutes or so, it occurred to me that we're desperately missing a finisher up front. Every other position, almost every other role (creative CM, holding midfielder, attacking full back, etc), seems to have a first choice player, and at least one solid back up. But there's nobody in the squad, or even the extended Irish setup that you can say if he's in the box, it's a goal, or even a shot on target. Walters and Murphy are solid target men. Long can (and has) scored goal of the season contenders, but will also miss relatively simple chances in the same game.

Marshall's a decent keeper but we never really tested him. Keane came on and drilled the ball at the goal with one of his first touches of the ball, it was saved, but it was an attempt on goal. Other than Whelan's long range shot, did any other player take that kind of opportunity - I'm not counting Murphy's saved chance because that was never going to be anything other than a shot, Keane shot even though he had the option of passing.

One piece of commentary that stuck in my head for years was from the 1-1 home draw with Portugal in 2001. George Hamilton repeatedly mentioned that Roy Keane had been scoring goals in training, and scored in that game, so I guess the real question is why were the players so shot-shy on Saturday?

On this topic, there's a pretty damning statistic from the international games across May and June

Games Goals
Senior 2 1
U21 2 2
U18 2 1
U17 3 0
Total 9 4
That's one (offside) goal by the seniors, two goals scored by the U21's (while conceding five) and one scored by the U18s in two games against Luxembourg. In future, where are the goals going to come from?

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, I was watching England yesterday and anytime Rooney had the ball within 25 yards you knew he was at least considering shooting.

[Kingdom]

Eoin Doyle or Daryl Murphy, neither are good enough, so i wouldn't agree with the last couple of paragraphs, the pl is better than the championship also, you cant legitimately argue that either. Overall good points well made.

I won't say Doyle is good enough, but I can't say that he isn't, because frankly we don't know. Look at Mikey Drennan: very good underage for us, excellent in the youth CL for Villa (along with Grealish, Carruthers, Burke, Williams) didn't pick up a senior contract, back at home with Rovers, tearing it up and would be no surprise to see him head off to Bristol City or the like next season and bang them in at the Championship.
That's different from the path Doyle is on, but it's worth referencing, because these are guys that we cannot necessarily discount. But from what I've seen of him doyle is a different kind of forward to what we have, a bigger version of David Connolly perhaps, and to be honest, in Robbie's absence, that is exactly what we're going to need.

On the whole PL v Championship thing, it isn't black and white. If you remove the top 10 sides in the PL, they are the ones with the charisma and generally good football, but they're also the teams packed with the foreign stars. The remainder, generally speaking, are either gash to begin with, or cannot attract the type of player necessary to break that glass ceiling into the top ten. And when the core that you rely on to maintain survival dissipates after 2/3 seasons, you're done. We all know these teams. Watford will be one more than likely. Sunderland probably. QPR definitely. Palace quite probably.

I would reckon here and now, that Bournemouth will do quite well next season. I don't think they'll be near relegation. They've a good manager, and they play football that will make mugs out of some teams in the PL. The other two I would worry about. Whereas I reckon if you put Boro in the PL now, they'd stay up.

Some teams in the Championship cannot grind it out over a harsh season. Derby, Brentford, Forest. There are sides that will always be yo-yo's between the two divisions. Good footballing sides that don't have the resources or the hardness about them to kill off the nastier elements of the Chship that grind you down over 46 matches. The way I see it is that the main difference between the PL and the Chship is that the calibre of foreign player is less numerous, and less capable in the chship. In the Championship, the top 3 and Derby excepted, you could have interchanged any of the next 6/7/8 sides.

I suppose another way of saying it would be that the foreign players in the PL make the home grown players look better than their respective equivalents in the chship.

We here on this site, know the players playing in England that are eligible for us. If you keep failing with one approach, then take another approach. A bit of humility hasn't hindered the North.

And I'd start by dumping our management team charade, and picking a proper European coach. That, or Eddie Howe. Feck it, Sean O'Driscoll plays better football than Martin O'Neill, but he couldn't possibly be considered.

[Kingdom]

Watching the game, especially the last 20 minutes or so, it occurred to me that we're desperately missing a finisher up front. Every other position, almost every other role (creative CM, holding midfielder, attacking full back, etc), seems to have a first choice player, and at least one solid back up. But there's nobody in the squad, or even the extended Irish setup that you can say if he's in the box, it's a goal, or even a shot on target. Walters and Murphy are solid target men. Long can (and has) scored goal of the season contenders, but will also miss relatively simple chances in the same game.

Marshall's a decent keeper but we never really tested him. Keane came on and drilled the ball at the goal with one of his first touches of the ball, it was saved, but it was an attempt on goal. Other than Whelan's long range shot, did any other player take that kind of opportunity - I'm not counting Murphy's saved chance because that was never going to be anything other than a shot, Keane shot even though he had the option of passing.

One piece of commentary that stuck in my head for years was from the 1-1 home draw with Portugal in 2001. George Hamilton repeatedly mentioned that Roy Keane had been scoring goals in training, and scored in that game, so I guess the real question is why were the players so shot-shy on Saturday?

On this topic, there's a pretty damning statistic from the international games across May and June

Games Goals
Senior 2 1
U21 2 2
U18 2 1
U17 3 0
Total 9 4
That's one (offside) goal by the seniors, two goals scored by the U21's (while conceding five) and one scored by the U18s in two games against Luxembourg. In future, where are the goals going to come from?

That's a horrible statistic.

[DannyInvincible]

Watching the game, especially the last 20 minutes or so, it occurred to me that we're desperately missing a finisher up front. Every other position, almost every other role (creative CM, holding midfielder, attacking full back, etc), seems to have a first choice player, and at least one solid back up. But there's nobody in the squad, or even the extended Irish setup that you can say if he's in the box, it's a goal, or even a shot on target. Walters and Murphy are solid target men. Long can (and has) scored goal of the season contenders, but will also miss relatively simple chances in the same game.

Marshall's a decent keeper but we never really tested him. Keane came on and drilled the ball at the goal with one of his first touches of the ball, it was saved, but it was an attempt on goal. Other than Whelan's long range shot, did any other player take that kind of opportunity - I'm not counting Murphy's saved chance because that was never going to be anything other than a shot, Keane shot even though he had the option of passing.

One piece of commentary that stuck in my head for years was from the 1-1 home draw with Portugal in 2001. George Hamilton repeatedly mentioned that Roy Keane had been scoring goals in training, and scored in that game, so I guess the real question is why were the players so shot-shy on Saturday?

On this topic, there's a pretty damning statistic from the international games across May and June

Games Goals
Senior 2 1
U21 2 2
U18 2 1
U17 3 0
Total 9 4
That's one (offside) goal by the seniors, two goals scored by the U21's (while conceding five) and one scored by the U18s in two games against Luxembourg. In future, where are the goals going to come from?

Thought it interesting that of all the teams partaking in the qualifiers, we're the team who have scored the most goals from inside the six-yard box with 5: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/0614/708043-analysis-ireland-v-scotland-in-numbers/

[DannyInvincible]

I texted my mates and Stutts and CTP at half time saying i didnt think we had played that well, but i could sense those watching on TV thought we would have, and all my mates texted me saying exactly that. I texted and said we have created absolutely nothing, and we hadn't!

We created a goal and had them under pressure for the entire half. :confused:

Darragh Maloney, Liam Brady, Eamon Dunphy, Richard Sadlier (01:42:30 of video) (http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10431207/), Ken Early, Emmet Malone (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/ken-early-ireland-are-a-poor-side-and-we-re-getting-worse-1.2249357), Liam Mackey (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/same-old-story-for-irelandnbspas-players-leave-it-slip-337002.html) and Vincent Hogan (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/vincent-hogan-martin-oneills-stamp-still-missing-as-euro-hopes-die-31302041.html) are just a few commentators who were at the game but who were impressed or encouraged by our first-half performance. Dan McDonnell (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/daniel-mcdonnell-deflated-ireland-stuck-in-slow-march-to-familiar-conclusion-31302034.html) also specifically defended McCarthy's first-half showing. What made you think it was a performance that would have appeared better only on television and why do you think all the aforementioned professionals disagree with you?

Here are the tie-breaking criteria, by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_qualifying#Tiebreakers


If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following tie-breaking criteria are applied:


Higher number of points obtained in the matches played among the teams in question;
Superior goal difference resulting from the matches played among the teams in question;
Higher number of goals scored in the matches played among the teams in question;
Higher number of goals scored away from home in the matches played among the teams in question;
If, after having applied criteria 1 to 4, teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 4 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams in question to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 6 to 10 apply;
Superior goal difference in all group matches;
Higher number of goals scored in all group matches;
Higher number of away goals scored in all group matches;
Fair play conduct in all group matches (1 point for a single yellow card, 3 points for a red card as a consequence of two yellow cards, 3 points for a direct red card, 4 points for a yellow card followed by a direct red card);
Position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system;


To determine the best third-placed team, the results against the teams in sixth place are discarded. The following criteria are applied:


Higher number of points obtained;
Superior goal difference;
Higher number of goals scored;
Higher number of away goals scored;
Fair play conduct in all group matches;
Position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system;

[Kingdom]

Danny, in terms of our showing thus far under O'Neill, yes, there was lots to be positive about. But it wasn't like we were doing anything better than under Mick McCarthy against a peer. It would be less than par with Trappatoni at our best under him. And this is over a year into the dynamic duo's reign. That's where the problem lies.

And Scotland were very much under par. Whether that was because of us or themselves remains to be seen, but when they lifted things, we became a non-force.

[Stuttgart88]

That's a horrible statistic.ardee Bhoy and I watched the ENG u21 v IRL u21 game recently and we didn't see much cause for optimism. Only later we found out that our lads were two years younger than England's. Isn't that how we tend to do things? We do t make it easy for ourselves at underage level.

Historically I think Irish managers since Mick have looked at club and division first and foremost. At the margins I think a bolder approach could be applied. Conservatism on and off the pitch has been the theme of the decade, with the obvious exception of Stan's end of season tours!

[Stuttgart88]

Also, interesting that neither CTP nor I is what Paul would call a "mate".

[Stuttgart88]

Danny, in terms of our showing thus far under O'Neill, yes, there was lots to be positive about. But it wasn't like we were doing anything better than under Mick McCarthy against a peer. It would be less than par with Trappatoni at our best under him. And this is over a year into the dynamic duo's reign. That's where the problem lies.

And Scotland were very much under par. Whether that was because of us or themselves remains to be seen, but when they lifted things, we became a non-force.i think we have the ability to make any opponent look sh1t. We make ourselves look pretty sh1t too unfortunately.

Your point about being a year in is key. It's actually quite a bit more than a year. Still no idea of best team and still only playing in fits and starts. However, it'd be hypocritical of me to slate the selection. For a long time now I have thought we could dispense with our addiction to orthodox width in midfield and pick a flattish midfield three, plus a Hoolahan type player. He did this and I won't fault him for it. The biggy for me was Long. I'd have been happy for him to partner either Murphy or Walters but I'd never have gone with Murphy and Walters.

[geysir]

ardee Bhoy and I watched the ENG u21 v IRL u21 game recently and we didn't see much cause for optimism. Only later we found out that our lads were two years younger than England's. Isn't that how we tend to do things? We do t make it easy for ourselves at underage level.

Historically I think Irish managers since Mick have looked at club and division first and foremost. At the margins I think a bolder approach could be applied. Conservatism on and off the pitch has been the theme of the decade, with the obvious exception of Stan's end of season tours!
England are preparing for the Euro finals, therefore they are using the same squad that were u21, some 2 years ago. We are preparing for the 2017 qualifiers.

[SwanVsDalton]

Emmet Malone on Second Captains was making a pretty decent point about what we want from our next campaign - we're fourth seeds, we're on the wane and the players don't appear to be coming through.

He suggested this freedom to look long-term rather than short (a freedom to write off the next campaign and not be under pressure to get a result every match) might be the best thing for us.

He also suggested, without really saying it, that O'Neill isn't the man for that job.

I'm inclined to agree that we're in full-on reboot mode now. There's no point sticking gaffer tape all over the team if it falls apart on the road to the finals. It doesn't really matter whose in the 11, or even if it's 442 or 433 - we don't play good enough, we're scared, we have no composure. We need a fresh start, a proper one, and maybe the only way we're really going to get it is with some reflective, painful time in the wilderness.

[Stuttgart88]

In a funny way it might be what gets people back on board.

[Crosby87]

we need a fresh start, a proper one, and maybe the only way we're really going to get it is with some reflective, painful time in the wilderness.

Only one underwhelming appearance since 2002 isn't being in the wilderness?

[SwanVsDalton]

Only one underwhelming appearance since 2002 isn't being in the wilderness?

Compared to the likes of Scotland, Northern Ireland and poor aul Wales, no not really.

Scotland and NI are possibly good examples - while we've generally been there or thereabouts at the tail end of campaigns, and in play-offs, these guys have occasionally found themselves well out of it. They've had some truly traumatic qualifying runs in the last decade. But they've also taken some notable scalps and played with the kind of freedom that comes from not feeling cup-final like tension every match.

It's the proverbial chimp on the back, no question, and I'd take a campaign where where we somehow beat a top seed at home but conspire to draw twice with Latvia, say, rather than win against minnows and bottle it against anyone else. If only because we might need that experience to get back to where we should be.

[MeathDrog]

Anyone subscribed to the sun.ie care to copy and paste the story about the players not knowing the formation? Seems more than plausible judging by the confidence or lack of many had on the ball, especially in the 2nd half.

[Crosby87]

Thought you would have been more curious about that article about Van Morrisons wife.

[paul_oshea]

Also, interesting that neither CTP nor I is what Paul would call a "mate".

I knew when I said that but I thought both of you were at the game, I meant those not at the game ;)

DI we created very few chances, how many shots on goal in the first half? 1 i counted! THe more shots you have the more goals you will score! So what if we had possession, we were the home team. I don't normally use stats as the yardstick to beat/back an argument but the stats for overall were very even, unfortunately I can't find by half time. Possession was even, Scotland had more passes and more completed, and 3 times the amount of fouls on them, which is alarming considering we were at home and supposedly in control, the only decent stat for us was that we had 6 shots on target to their 3, but for all that great performance in the first half, where we supposedly gave them nothing id expect have expect that to be multiples not double.

[Crosby87]

Why don't you consider stutts a mate? Did he nick your sausage roll again?

[paul_oshea]

It wasn't sausage rolls! And he owes me pints ;)

No it was meant as those not at the game, he knows that too!

[Charlie Darwin]

DI we created very few chances, how many shots on goal in the first half? 1 i counted!
Shots on target or shots on goal?

[mark12345]

Something that does upset me about schoolboy football, is the lack of progression. St Kevin's Boys should be a leading League of Ireland club, given the sheer number of players they have on their books. But they don't. From what I can see, their sole aim is to get as many kids across to England as possible, no different to Belvedere before them, or Home Farm before them, or Cherry Orchard before them.
This is where the FAI need to step up to the plate. They are the guys that hold all the aces. They pick the national underage teams. Set out guidelines that will completely restructure Irish football, as the FAI feel it needs to be, and then get all clubs to ascede to them. You won't? Fine, no schoolboy internationals for you. That will change attitudes quickly. Because a parent or schoolboy might want to play for Liverpool/United, but they also want to play for their country too, because the chances of it happening the higher up the line get slimmer and slimmer.

Just in case anyone thinks this is idealistic crap or that, I'm doing what I believe in. I have a boy of 8, who is the smallest in his team, and he is technically excellent, tough as nails and uber-confident. He can read a game and is two-footed. It has come from hours spent outside telling him what to do, and from watching matches with the sound off, so that he isn't getting someone elses idea of what constitutes a good player, as defined by English media. He is and will continue to learn foreign languages, so that if the time comes that he is able to make a decision to pursue a career in football, he'll have options that suit him.
He does not play for a "big" team. He is coached by a technically brilliant person in Tony Sheridan, and from what I see every week, I wouldn't have it any other way because he is getting exactly what he needs right now.

You my friend, are the future of the game in Ireland. I really like your enlightened views on the game and I wish every parent thought like you. I was a member of the Home Farm team back in the 80's and what you say about that club and Belevedere, and Kevins is correct. I remember a Tony Sheridan with Shelbourne also. He was a very good player. I commend you on your foresight. Here's hoping your son and many more like him are given the latitude to express their creativity on the football pitches of Ireland.

[Kingdom]

It is the same Tony Sheridan. I was very skeptical when I went up first, but he is brilliant. Head up, ball down move into space, etc etc. I've no doubt this is no different to the coaching at the big clubs.

[mark12345]

Good idea by Malone. I think if we put it to the footballing public that we are in rebuilding mode and did not expect to qualify for two campaigns then we would buy some credibility with the man in the street (of course it would not go down too well with the suits in the FAI). Also if we offered the top home based talent a chance to play in the national team then something might become of it. An elite squad of home based players who are compensated for making the squad (ie triple their current salaries so that they can become as close as possible to full time professionals) is the way to go. They could be called an Ireland B team or an Ireland Developmental squad, and where possible have them play friendlies against top quality club opposition and lower caliber international teams. It would take some time to get them up to speed but we have to start somewhere

[mark12345]

It may not be the same Tony Sheridan, but this lad you know sounds like something special if he's giving the kids the chance to express themselves on the field and not putting an emphasis on results and trophies.
There was another lad I played with in school (Gary Howlett) - best talent I ever saw. Got a cap for Ireland and played in two FA Cup Finals. But in truth English football ruined him (which speaks to your earlier point about kids just going sheepishly across the water). Howlett would have thrived in France, Holland, Italy he was that good of a midfielder, but that was never an option for kids growing up in Ireland in the 80's, and that's still the case today apparently - which is shocking when you think of it. You say your lad is learning languages - good for him. The top talent at home needs to start thinking of destinations other than English football - if English players were so good why are there so many foreigners there? And if they're not that good - which they're not - then what does that say about English coaches? English / Irish coaches - there are very very few good ones

[Fixer82]

It would be great if there were some inroads made into Holland, Belgium, France for getting young Irish footballers to go over there instead of England. Obviously there is a language barrier but I know for me as a young teen, the UK was just as alien as the continent.
Many people in Holland have very good English also.

I think it could be great for the next generation. All we have is the same type of player as is being produced in Britain. So if the FA make mistakes in their youth coaching, we ultimately suffer.

[DannyInvincible]

I knew when I said that but I thought both of you were at the game, I meant those not at the game ;)

DI we created very few chances, how many shots on goal in the first half? 1 i counted! THe more shots you have the more goals you will score! So what if we had possession, we were the home team. I don't normally use stats as the yardstick to beat/back an argument but the stats for overall were very even, unfortunately I can't find by half time. Possession was even, Scotland had more passes and more completed, and 3 times the amount of fouls on them, which is alarming considering we were at home and supposedly in control, the only decent stat for us was that we had 6 shots on target to their 3, but for all that great performance in the first half, where we supposedly gave them nothing id expect have expect that to be multiples not double.

Off the top of my head, I can think of Whelan's effort from distance, Murphy's header, McCarthy's blocked effort and Walters' goal. And then there were all the crosses from Coleman/Brady in good positions that didn't quite make it, but still pressure in the last third. According to the Guardian, we had 9 shots on target over the two halves and 1 off target (although the Daily Mail says we had 11 in total) compared to their 3 on target and 3 off. We had 13 corners to their 4. Possession was 50-50 but the former stats indicate that most of the game was played in the Scottish half. Compare also the heat maps here for, say, Daryl Murphy and Steven Fletcher to get an impression of which front man was receiving more possession further up the field: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/european-qualifiers/fixtures.html#s112016-m747589

Fletcher barely touched the ball in or near the Irish box. Most of Murphy's action came inside the Scottish box.

[tricky_colour]

We can beat Poland in warsaw. We can just trick them into shooting at their own net.

Just transfer Delaney's $5 million into a polish account(s) that is about $420,000 each.

[tricky_colour]

Thought you would have been more curious about that article about Van Morrisons wife.

It seems that article has been over looked, much like her garden.

[tricky_colour]

I must say the Scotland goal was well worked.

Indeed it is almost as if they have been practising.

We could learn a lesson or two there.

[jbyrne]

Anyone subscribed to the sun.ie care to copy and paste the story about the players not knowing the formation? Seems more than plausible judging by the confidence or lack of many had on the ball, especially in the 2nd half.

we are now quoting the sun??!!!!
I thought we were well set up in the first half and everyone seemed to know their job. possibly the best half from an o'neill team

[jbyrne]

Emmet Malone on Second Captains was making a pretty decent point about what we want from our next campaign - we're fourth seeds, we're on the wane and the players don't appear to be coming through.

He suggested this freedom to look long-term rather than short (a freedom to write off the next campaign and not be under pressure to get a result every match) might be the best thing for us.


its not as if we have a whole crop of good u21s waiting in the wings to be given a chance. we just are not producing enough good players to have the potential to come through. not sure how throwing in a load of untried and probably not good enough players for a campaign or two will make things better.

not overly concerned at our 4th seeding to be honest. Greece were no. 1 seeds for this campaign and have been beaten twice by the faroes


In a funny way it might be what gets people back on board.

the Irish sports fan wants to follow success or the flavour of the month. couldn't see them buying into a couple of campaigns even worse than this one (however still with the potential to be rescued possibly)

[nigel-harps1954]

its not as if we have a whole crop of good u21s waiting in the wings to be given a chance. we just are not producing enough good players to have the potential to come through. not sure how throwing in a load of untried and probably not good enough players for a campaign or two will make things better.



I know it's not quite English Premier League stars, but the League of Ireland under-19 league running for the past number of years is really starting to pay dividends for a number of clubs. There's a good list of young players within both divisions really starting to make an impact here and signs is on that there's currently four or five of them playing international level and I'd guess another four or five on the cusp of it too.

A lot of clubs going the right direction with coaching and underage structures and setting up their own academies.

It's time we stopped looking at players breaking through in England and concentrated on giving players breaking through here the best start and best support in their senior careers.

[paul_oshea]

DI look at Uefa here ->http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/qualifiers/season=2016/matches/round=2000446/match=2013954/index.html

Shots on target was 6 , to Scotlands 3. Total attempts 13 to 8. That's not a huge difference by any standards.

The corners one is the only one that reads well really relative to us supposedly being that good and completely stifling Scotland. But corners are not shots on goal, or clear cut chances per se!

And i dont agree with writing off campaigns to feed players through, that's a load of visionary whally that's totally unfounded with no substance. We have to make do with what we have, we don't have much and it looks like even less coming through, but as said before many countries are making good with what they have. Bar staunton's campaigns(and looking like this one) we have always been there and thereabouts heading into the last couple of games, we should always be looking to be there or thereabouts coming into the last game. We don't need all this talk of a complete overhaul that will probably just create the exact same outcome anyway.

[SwanVsDalton]

its not as if we have a whole crop of good u21s waiting in the wings to be given a chance. we just are not producing enough good players to have the potential to come through. not sure how throwing in a load of untried and probably not good enough players for a campaign or two will make things better.



And i dont agree with writing off campaigns to feed players through, that's a load of visionary whally that's totally unfounded with no substance. We have to make do with what we have, we don't have much and it looks like even less coming through, but as said before many countries are making good with what they have. Bar staunton's campaigns(and looking like this one) we have always been there and thereabouts heading into the last couple of games, we should always be looking to be there or thereabouts coming into the last game. We don't need all this talk of a complete overhaul that will probably just create the exact same outcome anyway.

In fairness, I didn't mention feeding players through (and I don't think Malone was talking about that either).

What's being talked about is giving the players we have more breathing space to play a natural game, to not feel like they're under pressure not to lose every game and reverting to the simplest and most rigid structures.

It's very much about getting the best out of players we have, which is why I cited the likes of Coleman and McCarthy underperforming. These guys are good players but they are not showing it for us.

Of course, I'd ideally love to combine us being competitive and playing a bolder, braver brand of football. But it doesn't appear to me it'll be that simple.

[paul_oshea]

Fair enough, but there were a couple of others suggesting that. I think that just requires a different manager with a different philosophy, people scoffed at Strachan and the suggestions made that he looked good for Scotland at the start of the campaign, and I don't want to keep harping on about this one, but I'd love a manager with that attitude in charge of us. And as bad as both Scotland and Ireland are, they are in the driving seat and he has gotten enough out of them. We haven't.

It's funny I had in my head that we had played some nice football under staunton, with this freedom that you speak of at home, getting wins against Wales and Slovakia at home, but a mate told me on Friday that wasn't the case at all, maybe i was slightly blinded by the wins...either way we did play with more freedom like you speak but we got spanked, there is a balance and I think a certain manager with a good philosophy and positive mentality would change all that, without needing any of these suggestions of saying it takes two campaigns/write-offs etc.

[centre mid]

FAI arent going to want a couple of campaigns in the wilderness with massive debts to service and a half empty stadium.

[Stuttgart88]

Liam Brady's assessment. Team crying out for an assertive CM, too many little mistakes, MON doesn't rate Long, good first half even if it was direct and not how Brady likes to play, Murphy did well, wrong to take Wes off, not fair to compare Martin to Michael O'Neill as NI has much easier group...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/liam-brady/ireland-the-25th-best-team-in-europe-336999.html

Giles in The Indo says that schoolboy clubs are doing a lot of stuff right, especially in regard to providing a safe environment for kids to play. Says they do so much by themselves it's fair that they don't want FAI interference so therefore it's imperative that everything be joined up at club level - set up a club association and channel as much support as possible from FIFA, UEFA and the State (fat chance...). Giles thinks we still have a chance. He was happy with parts of the game, first half especially, and thinks results later in the group are still possible.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/john-giles-is-it-any-wonder-schoolboy-clubs-are-suspicious-of-those-telling-them-what-to-do-31303426.html

[DeLorean]

It's funny I had in my head that we had played some nice football under staunton, with this freedom that you speak of at home, getting wins against Wales and Slovakia at home, but a mate told me on Friday that wasn't the case at all, maybe i was slightly blinded by the wins

My memory is that the Wales game was terrible and we were pretty good in the Slovakia game. Could be wrong though.

[paul_oshea]

The home one, with Stephen Ireland and Keane combining well, i thought we were good. But maybe the two goals overshadowed that. Still when did we score two goals against half decent opposition when not losing(Russia losing, I don't include Armenia) in Dublin?

[bennocelt]

Fair enough, but there were a couple of others suggesting that. I think that just requires a different manager with a different philosophy, people scoffed at Strachan and the suggestions made that he looked good for Scotland at the start of the campaign, and I don't want to keep harping on about this one, but I'd love a manager with that attitude in charge of us. And as bad as both Scotland and Ireland are, they are in the driving seat and he has gotten enough out of them. We haven't.

It's funny I had in my head that we had played some nice football under staunton, with this freedom that you speak of at home, getting wins against Wales and Slovakia at home, but a mate told me on Friday that wasn't the case at all, maybe i was slightly blinded by the wins...either way we did play with more freedom like you speak but we got spanked, there is a balance and I think a certain manager with a good philosophy and positive mentality would change all that, without needing any of these suggestions of saying it takes two campaigns/write-offs etc.

In Wales at the time, amazing the way the bar emptied out at half time, it was that bad:(

[DeLorean]

Not sure that Wales side could be considered half decent. Slovakia weren't exactly the force they have become since either (i.e. qualifying for tournaments) but I think we did play well that night. Both games finished 1-0 though, didn't they?

[EAFC_rdfl]

Off the top of my head, I can think of Whelan's effort from distance, Murphy's header, McCarthy's blocked effort and Walters' goal. And then there were all the crosses from Coleman/Brady in good positions that didn't quite make it, but still pressure in the last third. According to the Guardian, we had 9 shots on target over the two halves and 1 off target (although the Daily Mail says we had 11 in total) compared to their 3 on target and 3 off. We had 13 corners to their 4. Possession was 50-50 but the former stats indicate that most of the game was played in the Scottish half. Compare also the heat maps here for, say, Daryl Murphy and Steven Fletcher to get an impression of which front man was receiving more possession further up the field: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/european-qualifiers/fixtures.html#s112016-m747589

Fletcher barely touched the ball in or near the Irish box. Most of Murphy's action came inside the Scottish box.
Just accept that you're wrong and he's right, as always. sure didn't he text his mates!!!


Liam Brady's assessment. Team crying out for an assertive CM, too many little mistakes, MON doesn't rate Long, good first half even if it was direct and not how Brady likes to play, Murphy did well, wrong to take Wes off, not fair to compare Martin to Michael O'Neill as NI has much easier group...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/liam-brady/ireland-the-25th-best-team-in-europe-336999.html

Giles in The Indo says that schoolboy clubs are doing a lot of stuff right, especially in regard to providing a safe environment for kids to play. Says they do so much by themselves it's fair that they don't want FAI interference so therefore it's imperative that everything be joined up at club level - set up a club association and channel as much support as possible from FIFA, UEFA and the State (fat chance...). Giles thinks we still have a chance. He was happy with parts of the game, first half especially, and thinks results later in the group are still possible.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/john-giles-is-it-any-wonder-schoolboy-clubs-are-suspicious-of-those-telling-them-what-to-do-31303426.html

I don't know much about schoolboys clubs so can't say how accurate or not that is. But it stinks of a swipe at Sadlier for taking 'his' seat on The Panel. Sadlier made a fair bit of commentary about the schoolboys clubs post match, about how it's all about winning and not about getting the basic skills in place and enjoying the game. I think Dunphy was also making the same comments. He was saying that the big lad will always get picked over the small technical lad nowadays, and that means no more players like Wes coming through

[Stuttgart88]

My memory is that the Wales game was terrible and we were pretty good in the Slovakia game. Could be wrong though.Wales game was dire. Flat and unimaginative salvaged by a good Stephen Ireland goal. Dunne had a brain fart and gave the ball away for a one-on-one which Wales missed. Poor Welsh side that day / era.

Slovakia was good, Stan's best competitive performance probably.

[paul_oshea]

Ya they did. I thought we scored 2 against Wales...

[Stuttgart88]

Just accept that you're wrong and he's right, as always. sure didn't he text his mates!!!



I don't know much about schoolboys clubs so can't say how accurate or not that is. But it stinks of a swipe at Sadlier for taking 'his' seat on The Panel. Sadlier made a fair bit of commentary about the schoolboys clubs post match, about how it's all about winning and not about getting the basic skills in place and enjoying the game. I think Dunphy was also making the same comments. He was saying that the big lad will always get picked over the small technical lad nowadays, and that means no more players like Wes coming throughIm not sure Giles is taking a swipe (he's calling it as he sees it!), rather he is talking from the perspective of a guy with links to one of the better clubs.

It seems to be a case of the fallacy of composition: if everyone does whats good for himself, the greater good is diminished. The clubs are behaving rationally to suit themselves but the result is to the detriment of the greater ambitions. I am a little suspicious of the labelling of clubs as primitive win-at-all-costs merchants though. I thought that things are moving on? Although the DDSL giving lots of money to the FAI to build a pitch makes me wonder if it's a bit like our payment from FIFA: take the money and leave us alone will ya?

[Stuttgart88]

Ya they did. I thought we scored 2 against Wales...We did in Cardiff, then McShane intervened in injury time! It was 1-0 in Croker I think.

[OwlsFan]

I missed the game as I was attending a function in England and sat down and watched the game (apologies if all these matters have been covered all ready) yesterday afternoon in the comfort of my living room. I am sure all the nuances and tactics of the game have been debated ad nauseum so I'll just refer to a few matters which came to my attention:

(a) Don't feel guilty by the offside goal (very little in it as the feet were level) as Hoolahan (I think) at the far post was having his shirt pulled/tugged as he made a dart for the near post in the same incident. Clear penalty.

(b) WTF was the stadium PA doing playing a celebratory song when Scotland scored? Is it a FIFA rule or something if the home side does it, the away side must get the same. Disgrace if it's not mandatory/

(c) Very little coming through on audio of huge support from Irish fans other than after the goal. Was this correct?

(d) We were slightly better in the first half and also in the second. Not a huge amount in it but if Murphy had taken that chance almost immediately after the Scots got their fluke, different game - different result.

(e) Maloney touched the ball from open play about 4 times, including his shot which was going well wide.

(f) Every management team deserves at least two campaigns. In the UK they go ballistic when a manager is sacked after 6 games in the EPL. The threshold is of course smaller for international football due to the far fewer games but I wouldn't write MON's obituary as yet. I was hoping that at last we would start winning "must win" games at home but it's not to be (Poland and Scotland) and we have even lost a "must not lose" game (Scotland away) so we may have even gone back a step but sometimes you have to go in to reverse to go forward. Let's see how we go in the next 4 games and then the next campaign even if this one ends with a whimper.

(g) There is not time to experiment in int football in competitive games or write off campaigns where you still have a chance. If you're lucky, in your life time, you will have 15 Euros and 15 World Cups you'll remember or be aware of. Each campaign has to be treated as if it's the one and only we'll ever be in as they're like hens' teeth.

[DeLorean]

And i dont agree with writing off campaigns to feed players through, that's a load of visionary whally that's totally unfounded with no substance. We have to make do with what we have, we don't have much and it looks like even less coming through, but as said before many countries are making good with what they have. Bar staunton's campaigns(and looking like this one) we have always been there and thereabouts heading into the last couple of games, we should always be looking to be there or thereabouts coming into the last game. We don't need all this talk of a complete overhaul that will probably just create the exact same outcome anyway.


There is not time to experiment in int football in competitive games or write off campaigns where you still have a chance. If you're lucky, in your life time, you will have 15 Euros and 15 World Cups you'll remember or be aware of. Each campaign has to be treated as if it's the one and only we'll ever be in as they're like hens' teeth.

Nice to see some sanity restored to the forum.

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't write off campaigns either but at the same time MON has been slow to signal to the "next in lines" that they might have something to play for. Tets was bemoaning the lack of willingness to shoot. Conor Hourihane? There was a spell early last season where he deserved a call up to the initial, larger, squads. Unless I'm mistaken he wasn't. I think sometimes being on the international radar can help a player with his club ambitions.

Anyway, 12 months from now I'm expecting players like Hoban, Duffy and Egan to be pressing for a squad place, maybe more. Mick had Alan Kelly playing at a high level but still gave caps early in his tenure to Shay. If we're to call up 4 keepers why not Lawlor or Henderson rather than 4 quite seasoned keepers? It's been unimaginative.