Republic of Ireland V Poland - Sunday, 29th March 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[ArdeeBhoy]

Oh and PO'S right about yer man. So not 'needless'!
;)

[geysir]

I don't share much of the optimism, imo we were poor overall, outplayed and out thought on our own turf, by a middlin' internat team, who allowed us the ball in the 2nd half.
We had to win this game. Getting a draw like this in any other qual campaign would mean we would be virtually out, end of story, worse than Stan's era, but we still have an outside chance for 3rd spot, just consider that when you compare this campaign to any other.
If Poland hadn't scored via Brady's mistake, they would have scored sometime after, as they were the only team who looked threatening, their determined plan was to go a goal up and we were awful in response, a disjointed undefined football rabble in the 1st half.
If we had scored earlier than we did, Poland would have taken the game up the field and scored as they could have done, look what happened in the few minutes of play after we scored.

For example we have Wes and he should start because he's our best playmaker, but he's just okay, he makes plenty of mistakes and he can also do the beautiful match saving assist. But compare him to the industrious hyperactive box to box playmakers from intl teams that we might aspire towards, Czech Rep and Croatia, Wes would in the lower league of international playmakers. He ranks as adequate not the 2nd coming.

As was said by many before, O'Neill was gambling playing Brady, where his weakness (lack of natural LB ability) would be exploited, but who knows what effect having Clark at CH and Wilson at LB would have had.

[mark12345]

that's harsh on given. I thought the pole finish was superb. not much shay could have done in my opinion

Agreed. At first glance I thought Shay should have saved it, but on replay the lad had most of the goal to aim at and had no challenge coming in. And he fairly rifled his shot which would have beaten any keeper for pace.

[mark12345]

Brady did make a costly mistake at LB, but he offered quite a lot going forward. I feel that the Polish full back was fearful of him and that pegged him back for a while. It translated into an inhibited defender in the second half and allowed Brady space to roam which was ultimately telling in the second half performance

[SkStu]

I did use the word 'most'.

:rolleyes:

What else did I say that you found so disagreeable??

(No need for the rolly eyes now Mr AB)

[Charlie Darwin]

Agreed. At first glance I thought Shay should have saved it, but on replay the lad had most of the goal to aim at and had no challenge coming in. And he fairly rifled his shot which would have beaten any keeper for pace.
I'm not sure Forde or WW would have saved it either. It was hit with such venom that it would have taken an amazing save to keep it out. Stutts might have more input than me as I stopped playing goalkeeper when I was in my teens, but surely he was right to cover his near post and invite Peszko to take on the more difficult shot? It was just a great finish. Forde was caught out by a similar shot (a header) from close range against Sweden if memory serves.

[jbyrne]

Brady did make a costly mistake at LB, but he offered quite a lot going forward. I feel that the Polish full back was fearful of him and that pegged him back for a while. It translated into an inhibited defender in the second half and allowed Brady space to roam which was ultimately telling in the second half performance

if he could only sort out his crossing which was dreadful on sunday. will excuse him given his recent injury lay-off but too many times his crosses were too short or too long

[jbyrne]

Long did his usual give away a petulant free when he had no need to do it, he could have dispossessed the Centre back but needlessly pushed him
in the back instead.

have a look at the incident again. the polish defender cuts across long and falls to the ground. a decent ref would have seen through what happened and no free. it was pointed out on the commentary by Ronnie Whelan and his analysis was spot on.

watched the second half again last night and the poles diving and rolling around was pathetic. I stopped counting past 5 times in the 2nd half when they just fell over and were awarded a free. poor poor refereeing

[KK77]

Everton’s James McCarthy may continue to win admirers for his Premier League displays, but Dunphy isn’t a believer in the attributes of the Glasgow-born star.

“McCarthy is turning out to be a terrible flop. He doesn’t do anything," he said.

“He’s a hyped player. He’s a player that everyone thinks is far, far better than he is.

[Fixer82]

Dunphy's comments at half time were ridiculous. Saying Coleman has been non-existent. It may not have been happening for him but you couldn't fault his effort.

[KK77]

Dunphy's comments at half time were ridiculous. Saying Coleman has been non-existent. It may not have been happening for him but you couldn't fault his effort.

Not so long back Coleman was world class according to the lads. Crazy stuff.

[jbyrne]

I don't share much of the optimism, imo we were poor overall, outplayed and out thought on our own turf, by a middlin' internat team, who allowed us the ball in the 2nd half.


so when we "allow" teams to have the ball its poor tactics but when Poland allegedly do so its them outplaying and out thinking us?


If we had scored earlier than we did, Poland would have taken the game up the field and scored as they could have done, look what happened in the few minutes of play after we scored.


the match ended with us on the attack resulting in a corner

[OwlsFan]

have a look at the incident again. the polish defender cuts across long and falls to the ground. a decent ref would have seen through what happened and no free. it was pointed out on the commentary by Ronnie Whelan and his analysis was spot on.

watched the second half again last night and the poles diving and rolling around was pathetic. I stopped counting past 5 times in the 2nd half when they just fell over and were awarded a free. poor poor refereeing

Yes, but we were lucky he didn't give a free kick for a foul against the goalkeeper leading up to the goal. Many refs would.

[DeLorean]

The ref was extremely poor and in general he suited the Poles more than us. I forgive him though as the two really major calls he had to make went in our favour. It's unlikely we would have equalised with ten men and it's even more unlikely we would have equalised had Fabianski been awarded the free kick that goalkeepers, rightly or wrongly, generally get. If it wasn't for those two calls we'd be licking our wounds, practically out of contention and facing into the Scotland game down James McCarthy already.

[jbyrne]

The ref was extremely poor and in general he suited the Poles more than us. I forgive him though as the two really major calls he had to make went in our favour. It's unlikely we would have equalised with ten men and it's even more unlikely we would have equalised had Fabianski been awarded the free kick that goalkeepers, rightly or wrongly, generally get. If it wasn't for those two calls we'd be licking our wounds, practically out of contention and facing into the Scotland game down James McCarthy already.

if McCarthy had to go then so did the pole given his initial stamp (albeit soft) on mccarthys foot. there was no more malice or force in what McCarthy did to the pole.

[OwlsFan]

Now that trap ended the love affair and the heartbreak is over SvD speaks a lot of sense in the clear light of day rather than the blurred skies of love.


"But when you look back on that era, there was a sense that Trap got away with it. How many 'big' teams did we actually beat in a competitive match? None."
-Stephen Reid.

ALways felt this with Trap and always said it too, interestingly it's what everyone has been saying ever since Trap left!.

Great to see CD consistent again, one thing ye have to give him, he is always wrong!

I think everything else has been pretty much covered already so I won't bother repeating it.

Why do we have to go back to the Trap era all the time? It's gone, like Giles', Hand's, Charlton's, McCarthy's, Kerr's and Stan's.. As ever there are two sides to a story. How many away games did Trap's teams go before they lost a game? How many did O'Neill's ? etc etc There are arguments and counter-arguments. Our record against top teams at home goes back beyond Trap and it continues. THAT is the frustrating part of the game. We pretty much had the team most people would have wanted, playing the style of football that has been demanded by many and it still took even a last minute goal to earn a point. Sure we played much better in the 2nd half when we went back to the much maligned 4-4-2 but I still think that had a lot to do with the Poles attitude of what we have, we hold.

So we go to yet another "we must win game" against Scotland and the away game against Poland is regarded as also a must win game. As regards the latter, I go with the theory that it WILL happen someday (an away win over a major rival). If we ignore Trap's 90 minute 0-1 over France, are we going back to 1987 for such a victory ? However, I am not sure even 30 decades of the rosary will work the oracle but we can but hope.

That is all an Irish fan can do. Germans, English, Italians, Dutch expect. We hope. Those who expect and don't hope are fools because history teaches us we have very little on which to base our expectation. Even under Jack's great teams all we could manage was a win in Scotland. It is bizarre, no doubt about that, when you witness Norn Iron winning big games away from home but then they are always subject to the banana skin and have qualified for nothing in two generations. What the previous eras success was built on was, if possible, avoiding defeat against the bigger teams and beating the lesser teams. Hence the furore when we lost to Cyprus and Macedonia. MON is chasing the leaders here because of the loss to Scotland. We needed to beat Poland. We failed yet again. Now we must do what it in the past has proven almost impossible (i.e. beat two higher ranked teams, one at home and one away).

I hope because someday it will happen but the odds are stacked against us.

[OwlsFan]

did Keane nearly score that header? Despite hitting the post I never felt it had a chance of beating the keeper.

Not sure keeper would have got it. He went down like a sack of potatoes.

[DeLorean]

if McCarthy had to go then so did the pole given his initial stamp (albeit soft) on mccarthys foot. there was no more malice or force in what McCarthy did to the pole.

I'll have to see the stamp again. All I know is that nine times out of ten you'll get sent off for raising your hand to somebody's face these days, so McCarthy got very lucky.

[Stuttgart88]

Of those two decisions you'd expect them to go against you based on what referees normally do, not because the referee would have been right.

[DeLorean]

I'd agree with that in relation to the Fabianski one but not the McCarthy one. If he had sent him off he would have been technically correct and we could have had no arguments really. It was extremely silly from McCarthy.

[paul_oshea]

I don't share much of the optimism, imo we were poor overall, outplayed and out thought on our own turf, by a middlin' internat team, who allowed us the ball in the 2nd half.
We had to win this game. Getting a draw like this in any other qual campaign would mean we would be virtually out, end of story,

I agree we needed the win, this draw doesn't do much for us, it keeps us in contention but only just. I also agree somewhat around our style of play, but as I mentioned earlier we were one dimensional, but our tempo, urgency, passion and possession were in abundance and something I have not seen since we started in the Aviva, even probably longer. It's a start, hopefully its not too late a start, and we do press on. If we don't we wont be beating Scotland and I don't think Mon/Keane will have done a good job.

I also agree about the Poles, they really were very poor, hoofing it at every opportunity and couldn't really take it down either, however they always seem to have a man in the middle and winning those breaks, same as the team on top in a gaelic football match, always have the ball landing to one of their men. Poland are very mediocre bar lewandowski, I hope the lads remember this in Poland, they are solid but very limited. They offered nothing.

Everyone talks about us almost being "owed" a win, as though its a God given right or something, or like one spin of the roulette table, eventually it will land on 0. We don't. We do however look more likely after the second half than we have in a long time, so that due one will be down to how we play and not some stroke of luck or some perceived turn.

jb he definitely pushed him in the back, i was right behind the goals, he didn't need to, but how many times do we see Coleman get away with that stuff ;) I think the guilt is always on the Forward rather than the defender so you have to be smarter. I think the Centre back(big lad) had the better of Long twice and that frustrated him, he had earlier tried to get around him but wasn't fast enough and he was shouldered out of the way. But MON should spot this stuff and be telling him to watch it and cut it out. MON has a lot of work to do, individually and collectively as a team.



As regards the latter, I go with the theory that it WILL happen someday (an away win over a major rival). If we ignore Trap's 90 minute 0-1 over France, are we going back to 1987 for such a victory ? However, I am not sure even 30 decades of the rosary will work the oracle but we can but hope.

We could play for 30 years under Traps style away from home and we would never win. It's not something that just happens, it happens because we have played well enough to win, even luck hasn't got us to there yet. I do think that Mon can get us there, unlike in the last 10 years, if he picks the right formation and goes for it. It could also end up that we lose because of this, but Mon over Trap or any other manager i think the way he would set us up and the motivational skills he had we would always have a far greater chance than if it were trap or kerr or stan.

[jbyrne]

jb he definitely pushed him in the back, i was right behind the goals, he didn't need to, but how many times do we see Coleman get away with that stuff ;) I think the guilt is always on the Forward rather than the defender so you have to be smarter. I think the Centre back(big lad) had the better of Long twice and that frustrated him, he had earlier tried to get around him but wasn't fast enough and he was shoulder out of the way. But MON should spot this stuff and be telling him to watch it and cut it out. MON has a lot of work to do, individually and collectively as a team.

have another look at it on TV and see what you think. most refs in the LSL wouldn't fall for it.
not looking to get caught up on one smallish incident but there were many similar incidents were they conned the ref. O'Shea on lewandouski just after half time was another among many

[Stuttgart88]

I've seen it again and my reaction is the same as in real time. Don't give the defender any excuse to go down, it's what he's looking for. It was a dumb free to concede. It's not a major quip but he gives away that type of free quite regularly and should know better by now. It was frustrating. We'd have been better off letting him try to clear the ball, unless of course he passed it up the line and hey presto they carved a late goal a la Austria!

[paul_oshea]

I actually think Long would have dispossessed him here, we have seen him do that a few times before, I really do. I felt very confident because that lad was woeful with the ball on the floor, and I thought he would have got in around him after putting him under pressure, that's why it was so frustrating. Refs always give those ones.

[OwlsFan]

We could play for 30 years under Traps style away from home and we would never win. It's not something that just happens, it happens because we have played well enough to win, even luck hasn't got us to there yet. I do think that Mon can get us there, unlike in the last 10 years, if he picks the right formation and goes for it. It could also end up that we lose because of this, but Mon over Trap or any other manager i think the way he would set us up and the motivational skills he had we would always have a far greater chance than if it were trap or kerr or stan.

We have played for over 30 years under 6 managers, not just Trap, and have recorded just 1 away win against a similarly ranked opponent so it's not down to style of play and I am not including the 0-1 in France in 90 minutes or and the injury time goal in Slovakia.

Hedging your bets there: (a) If he picks the right team, (b) goes for it and (c) we could still end up losing. That's an interesting combination.

[paul_oshea]

You don't work in insurance or a betting exchange owlsfan do you? If you do let me know and Ill place some straight away.

its about the more likely outcome, I said under oneill with the way he sets us up and his motivational skills as demonstrated at half time against Poland, we would be more likely to get that result than under trap or Kerr or Staunton. Say 0/10 for Trap, I would suggest 3-4/10 for Mon at least.

[paul_oshea]

Actually another thing I meant to add to the post yesterday evening was how our one dimensional approach wasn't working too well as we had no good jumpers or headers of the ball in there like Doyle or Keane so I don't know why we kept playing in balls from the wing, anytime we tried a neat pull back or low cross it was cut out by the first man cos the poles were very well organised. I thought at that point he might bring on a more aerial threat.

[geysir]

so when we "allow" teams to have the ball its poor tactics but when Poland allegedly do so its them outplaying and out thinking us?
That's a dishonest and ridiculous straw man argument and as well deviously using a few selected snips from my post.

Poland made us look a 5th seeded team in the first half, we were shíite. What are on you on about twisting my opinion to that I stupidly say we "allow" teams to have the ball. One can not debate that type of bull, it's inherently a thick argument. If you disagree with a poster's opinion then just say so, without that childish nonsense.



the match ended with us on the attack resulting in a corner
And before we got that corner, Poland had 2 attacks and had possession. It was only a brief passage of play. We failed to win a crucial qualifier, in any other qual campaign that result would have buried our qual chances.

[Stuttgart88]

I have to say my heart was in my mouth for at least two of the remaining img minutes after we scored. Lewondowski wasn't far off catching the volley perfectly. A free man was picked out at the back post and I think Poland had another good attack too. It's not the same thing as Poland allowing us to have the ball but it suggested to me that Poland had some attacking threat in reserve but they chose not to use it to focus on protecting their lead.

[Stuttgart88]

The tactical analysis here seems to agree with what I said in previous posts.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-did-poland-significant-part-irelands-second-half-1968447-Mar2015/

It'd be churlish to say we only improved because Poland let us but I do think it's fair to say Poland almost completely decided to protect their lead and that probably helped us. It's not always easy to get through teams intent on defending though so credit where it's due, we deserved it on the basis of what we did. It's rare to see a team up against a parked bus get to the by-line as often as McClean and Coleman did. That was a really pleasing aspect.

[elroy]

We failed to win a crucial qualifier, in any other qual campaign that result would have buried our qual chances.

Rubbish. We failed to beat the second seeds in WC 2010 qualifying at home and yet still got the playoff position, comfortably. Similarly we only drew against the third seed team at home in the Euro 2012 qualifiers and indeed lost to the top seed at home, yet qualified. No result at this stage of the competition buries our chances. It is still very much in our own hands and 9 points from the next three games is a very realistic possibility.

[tricky_colour]

We have played for over 30 years under 6 managers, not just Trap, and have recorded just 1 away win against a similarly ranked opponent so it's not down to style of play and I am not including the 0-1 in France in 90 minutes or and the injury time goal in Slovakia.

Hedging your bets there: (a) If he picks the right team, (b) goes for it and (c) we could still end up losing. That's an interesting combination.


Given we have that long record of not getting and away win, the positive way to look at is that one is due.
The vast majority of the time we would settle for a draw in such games.
There comes a point where draws are not enough and we will have to go for it, the opposition will know that though.

[Bungle]

We are bound to win a big away match in the coming years. Far inferior teams to us beat far better teams than us regularly away in campaigns, so I'm sure we're not too far away from that milestone. The Irish team that played Scotland that day in Hampden must have been the most talented team we've ever had on paper.

I do think part of the problem is the mentality of our players and managers. Over the last 30 years, we've generally always been in with a shout of qualifying going into the final few games. There have been times when we've settled for the draw when we had teams by the throat and there for the taking but the message from the managers must've been to protect what we have which ultimately cost us. There have been times in that period when we were let down by bad referees like Spain away in Seville or when we were let down by ourselves like England and Poland for Euro 92 or Holland in 2002.

If we have to go to Poland needing a win to qualify, then it might not be a bad thing, as it might bring out a similar performance to the French game, when we just went for it.

[Stuttgart88]

Just with regard to Given and his effort for the goal:

A decent keeper at any level will almost instantaneously react - changing weight allocation, adapting feet - to the direction of the ball as it is hit. Once the ball is only a couple of feet from the shooter's boot a good keeper will have spotted the flight of the ball. That's why even slight deflections are so dangerous and keepers are left helpless. Once you have put weight to one side it's almost impossible to put it back to the other.

In this instance I simply couldn't fathom why he reacted as if the shot was hit at him, hence he raised his right leg and outstretched his hand rather than actually diving to his right. To me the shot looked as if it was started out to his right and if anything curled back in from just outside the post. Covering his near post was no excuse, that should be a given (no pun intended). It was a strange reaction in my opinion.

But, one angle I saw (only once) yesterday seemed to indicate that the ball moved twice. It left the goalscorer's boot towards Given, then turned out, then turned back in again. All very slight but if that is what happened it'd explain why Given seemed to react for a straightish shot rather than a wider shot.

[DeLorean]

Having watched the match again yesterday I wouldn't have anything major to add/repeat, only...

-I don't think Given can be blamed for the goal. It was a perfectly accurate rocket. I think Peszko struck almost across the ball which brought it away from Given. It was also an awkward height which was too high for his knee and too low for his hand, given the power of it. I'm baffled by some saying Forde would have saved it, it's exactly the kind of shot he would struggle to react to. If that should have been saved, then it should be simply impossible to score from that angle. Maybe it should be though.

-The game/mistake will stand to Brady. He didn't allow his head to drop and he'll have better days. His general play was good as the game wore on.

-Wilson was outstanding. He was so aggressive in the air and won practically everything. He doesn't seem to get much distance on his headers though and a few even went backwards or just up in the air, possibly as a result of winning balls he had no right to win the first place.

-Glenn Whelan had his best game for us since Paris. I'm not a fan but he did most of the stuff one would expect from McCarthy at this stage. Poland's approach suited him as he was never likely to get overrun once they sat back and he had time to pick his passes, but he was very assured in everything he did.

-McCarthy had a pretty mediocre outing without a doubt. That said, some of the comments about his commitment are nothing short of disgraceful. He had a tackle in the first half that rivalled McClean's and it didn't even get a mention. He also finished the game very strong, as I think Stutts alluded to. Some of the criticism is beyond over the top, you'd expect it from Dunphy but I think Stuey Byrne was suggesting dropping him as well. If there's one player we simply have to persevere with it's McCarthy I feel. I would like if Roy Keane could maybe sit down with him and show him the extra responsibility he needs to take. He's not a kid anymore, he played well in some massive games such as Meyseyside derbies and an FA Cup final, not to mention countless other relegation 'cup finals' with Wigan. It's clear to see how much he's grown into the Everton jersey and I'm sure the same will happen with us.

-McClean was excellent but talk of him (or his tackle) changing the game is misguided. The tide had turned well before he came on but he was vital in ensuring it stayed turned.

-Hoolahan really was a mixed bag. The best thing about him is his 32 year old confidence. He doesn't get phased by messing up, he just goes again and again. He looked spent for a lot of the second half though, I can see why he's taken off every time he starts for Norwich. That said, his assist for Long was really composed and clever and it's just as well he was still on the pitch.

-Bar a couple of nice touches and one real bit of class when he nearly scored, McGeady clearly wasn't match fit. Even in his most frustrating of days he sees more ball than he did the other night. Hopefully he can get a couple of games for Everton in their run-in. I'd still start him against Scotland. For me it's a no brainer as he is a more clever footballer than McClean but McClean will make a much bigger impact from the bench.

-The same could be said on the Keane/Long debate but I'm more unsure on that one. I'd be inclined to trust MON's gut on it I think.

-Like most others, I wanted to see Long before we did but I think POS made a good point about it being too risky to sacrifice Whelan any earlier. He could have come on for Keane directly but the substitution, when it did come, was Fergie-esque, which was great to see. I always remember Ferguson waiting until about the 80th minute to bring on Solskjaer when it seemed clear they could have done with him earlier. Invariably it worked out for him though so there must be some logic behind it.

-Comparisons to Stan's campaign are ridiculous. We might have got a few reasonable results that time but until we need an injury time winner against Gibraltar or concede five against Georgia I think it's silly talk. We were a disorganised mess which we are clearly not right now. Sunday was encouraging, MON made a real effort to make us a more creative side, definite progress. Who cares if Poland let us have it or sat back, 99% of teams with a lead away from home will do that anyway. They do that to make it more difficult for us to score, not easier, so who's to say we wouldn't have found another goal or two if they were more offensive themselves?

-I don't think the new format should be used as a stick to beat the current management team with, although I probably would have before the campaign. I think Poland's (freak) result against Germany and the difficulty of the group in general has levelled the score on that count a bit.

[paul_oshea]

He did say he(pzesko) hit it so well that it was a blur for him as it went past, I actually thought he didn't cover either angle but stayed well in the middle anticipating either, but he looked a bit slow to move, definitely though between he and o'shea they should have covered that angle, o'shea just turned sideways rather than get his body behind it, but as pointed out before perhaps he was afraid of a deflection and thought given had it, I still think a defender should block it especially in that position as its unlikely a deflection would get around the other side of the keeper.

[SwanVsDalton]

-I don't think Given can be blamed for the goal. It was a perfectly accurate rocket. I think Peszko struck almost across the ball which brought it away from Given. It was also an awkward height which was too high for his knee and too low for his hand, given the power of it. I'm baffled by some saying Forde would have saved it, it's exactly the kind of shot he would struggle to react to. If that should have been saved, then it should be simply impossible to score from that angle. Maybe it should be though.

I think Forde would've saved it because it was perfect height for him, he's an excellent shot-stopper despite claims to the contrary and (key factor) he has freakish gorilla arms. He'd have just lifted a hand to it and shifted it away.

Can't explain it more than that - seen him save those shots all the time.

For the record, I don't overly blame Given for the goal, just think he could have done a bit a better.

[IsMiseSean]

For the record, I don't overly blame Given for the goal, just think he could have done a bit a better.

I'd agree. My first reaction from behind the goal was Given shouldn't be beaten from that tight of an angle. After watching it on TV, the angle wasn't as tight as I thought.
I don't know what O'Shea was at though? Why didn't he throw himself in front of it?? He shouldn't be worried about a deflection. Throw yourself at it son...

[geysir]

Coleman post match quote (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/seamus-coleman-martin-kept-telling-us-wed-get-a-goal-and-we-did-31104006.html)

Seamus also revealed that manager Martin O'Neill's message at half-time was: "Keep going, you're guaranteed a goal."
"He said, 'We're still in it lads, just keep going'.
"He guaranteed us that we would get a goal and he was right. I'm happy for Longy to come on and get it."


Why didn't O'Neill say "Keep going, you're guaranteed 2 goals".

then the final line would have read
"He guaranteed us that we would get 2 goals and he was right"

O'Neill fluffed his lines, that's what Trap would call 'the tiny details that need absolute focus'.

[DeLorean]

In fairness to Shane Long he's a fantastic team player. He must be extremely frustrated when left out of the starting line ups for both Southampton and for us. He always says the right things in his interviews though. I remember him praising Koeman when he was interviewed after the Ipswich FA Cup match, when he was being left out of the side more often than not. The other day he spoke of the brilliant result we got in Germany and how not many teams will go and do that, despite not even being brought on as a sub in that match, which must have been a bit soul destroying for him. We're very lucky that despite our many limitations we've a seriously honest bunch that care every bit as much as we do, presumably even more. That's not a given in this day and age unfortunately.

[geysir]

Rubbish. We failed to beat the second seeds in WC 2010 qualifying at home and yet still got the playoff position, comfortably. Similarly we only drew against the third seed team at home in the Euro 2012 qualifiers and indeed lost to the top seed at home, yet qualified. No result at this stage of the competition buries our chances. It is still very much in our own hands and 9 points from the next three games is a very realistic possibility.Rubbish me hole, just to have to explain how drawing against Bulgaria, is an advance from drawing with Poland. You can't be serious! I'd bite your hand off if you offered me that scenario that faced us after we drew with Bulgaria at home. The draw against Bulgaria was infinitely better than the draw against Poland.
Yes we failed to beat the 2nd seeds Bulgaria in March 2009. We already had 3 wins and an away draw before we met Bulgaria, who had already dropped serious points, all we had to do was stay ahead of Bulgaria to secure the 2nd spot, the draw at home kept us ahead of them. It was a positive result and an away draw against them was also a positive result, we did not have to beat them. It was situation made for Trap.

In this campaign, we have already lost away to the 4th seeds. A draw at home against Poland keeps us behind them. And now the pressure is on us to do something we don't do, beat a decent enough team away. The odds on favourites for the first 2 spots in this group are Germany and one of Scotland or Poland. We are in a very poor position for 2nd spot and an outside chance of 3rd spot.
Yes we finished (Trap like) solid in 2012 qual group, we were better than the 3rd seeds and the point in Moscow changed the atmosphere. But do you seriously expect Poland or Scotland to implode like Slovakia did subsequently under the pressure of that dogged point earned in Moscow? In the past, many times we have ended up midway in a campaign, being in a poor situation in a group, but still within our control and rarely have we delivered and never when most likely we would have to beat a middle ranked team like Poland away. Possibly we get a 3rd place finish and throw of the dice in a play off. I would admit that there is a chance, but I don't have much faith in the management and the team are not impressing as qualification standard material, not so far.

[paul_oshea]

In fairness to Shane Long he's a fantastic team player. He must be extremely frustrated when left out of the starting line ups for both Southampton and for us. He always says the right things in his interviews though. I remember him praising Koeman when he was interviewed after the Ipswich FA Cup match, when he was being left out of the side more often than not. The other day he spoke of the brilliant result we got in Germany and how not many teams will go and do that, despite not even being brought on as a sub in that match, which must have been a bit soul destroying for him. We're very lucky that despite our many limitations we've a seriously honest bunch that care every bit as much as we do, presumably even more. That's not a given in this day and age unfortunately.

I don't know something about his modesty is lacking, like he has been in a City(like Dublin :P) too long, i much prefer doyler or the likes - ye know the other down to earth country fellas.

Lads, we aren't due anything so this thing about poland and winning away is ridiculous, why are ye all back slapping eachother at the thought of it.

I love SVDs matter of fact assertion based on his own opinion when there is nothing to state or show from Forde's career, languishing in a relegation battle looking down towards league 1, that suggests he is some sort of great shot stopper. Just cos you saw him in the LOI doesn't count for a tad. At least when I do that(bold matter of fact) its about someone who can be backed up.

" think Forde would've saved it because it was perfect height for him, he's an excellent shot-stopper despite claims to the contrary"

He is not, he can't get down low, thats his biggest problem i have gone through countless examples and that sweden one was a woeful example. He is playing bottom div1/league 1 and previously LOI because he is NOT an excellent shot stopper and scouts/managers/etc all over agree with that.

[DeLorean]

Wes leaped like a salmon at the back stick and nodded it back down, I took a touch and managed to get it over the 'keeper.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/FIFA_WC-qualification_2014_-_Austria_vs_Ireland_2013-09-10_-_Conor_Sammon_17.JPG/422px-FIFA_WC-qualification_2014_-_Austria_vs_Ireland_2013-09-10_-_Conor_Sammon_17.JPG

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

6) McClean should have started for Republic of Ireland

Martin O’Neill got it wrong from the start. Lining up in a 4-2-3-1 was the attack-minded set-up almost every Irish supporters wanted to see but few fans will have been happy with Jon Walters occupying a position wide on the right of midfield. He was placed there in the match against Germany and from a defensive point of view, he did a tremendous job. However, he offered little going forward – direct runs and searing pace are not his thing – and a German weak spot, the inexperienced left-back Erik Durm, went unexploited. It was more of the same against Poland (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/29/republic-of-ireland-poland-euro-2016-qualifier). It is obvious to anyone who has seen Poland play in this campaign that they are susceptible to pace on the flanks, so why play the plodder that is Walters out there? Why not start with James McClean? As he showed when he came on, he has the speed and skills to get behind the Poland defence and set up good opportunities for his team-mates. That was not the only choice O’Neill got wrong. If you are going to play Wes Hoolahan, then you need to play Shane Long in front of him. Long has the legs to run on to the type of passes Hoolahan can come up with, unlike the man who was chosen in his stead, Robbie Keane. The LA Galaxy forward was more static than wool fabric and despite his impressive goalscoring record, now looks past his use-by date. Ian McCourt

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/apr/01/euro-2016-qualifiers-internationals-10-talking-points

[paul_oshea]

In this campaign, we have already lost away to the 4th seeds. A draw at home against Poland keeps us behind them. And now the pressure is on us to do something we don't do, beat a decent enough team away. The odds on favourites for the first 2 spots in this group are Germany and one of Scotland or Poland. We are in a very poor position for 2nd spot and an outside chance of 3rd spot.
Yes we finished (Trap like) solid in 2012 qual group, we were better than the 3rd seeds and the point in Moscow changed the atmosphere. But do you seriously expect Poland or Scotland to implode like Slovakia did subsequently under the pressure of that dogged point earned in Moscow? In the past, many times we have ended up midway in a campaign, being in a poor situation in a group, but still within our control and rarely have we delivered and never when most likely we would have to beat a middle ranked team like Poland away. Possibly we get a 3rd place finish and throw of the dice in a play off. I would admit that there is a chance, but I don't have much faith in the management and the team are not impressing as qualification standard material, not so far.

Bulgaria have proved that they are nowhere near 2nd seeds, a bit like us, scotland are 2nd seeds, and poland arent too far off. That campaign was way easier. Georgia are better than Macedonia. There is no comparison between that group and this group.

[DeLorean]

The odds on favourites for the first 2 spots in this group are Germany and one of Scotland or Poland. We are in a very poor position for 2nd spot and an outside chance of 3rd spot.

We've more than an outside chance of 3rd. If we win a home match against a team of similar or lesser ability we will occupy that position. Hardly an outside chance. I think it would be fairer to say we have an outside chance of 2nd as that does look unlikely at this point.

[SkStu]

its very fcking negative in here. Jesus. The nitpicking of O'Neills comments, the general performance and Shay for the goal is just way off.

Great review DeLorean. I watched the game again last night and I had almost verbatim the same take aways from the game except I wouldn't have been so hard on McCarthy. I think his retention of the ball in the second half was essential. Fully agree, in a more relaxed state watching last night, about the growth of Brady at LB during the game and that McClean wasnt so much the catalyst for improvement but that he added a great spark that kept the fire burning.

We totally destroyed them in that second half. I have not seen an Irish team retain possession in such a controlled and continuous way as they did in the second half on Sunday - not for a long long time. Sure, a lot of it was sideways but that is okay. That is what continental teams are praised for doing. We defended in numbers effectively and with shape/discipline. I was very impressed watching again. To read the media (and some on here) talking about the second half being huff and puff towards an equalizer is just so unfair and way off the mark. I challenge anyone to watch it again (ok, just the second half) and not be impressed to the same extent I am or see the game similar to how DeLorean has reviewed it.

[paul_oshea]

I have to agree with Geysir, based on the last 20 years never mind just the last couple of years we haven't won a big game when we really need to(bar holland) and we need to do this to do it. I just cant see us beating Scotland. O'Neill was wrong about the two legged affair in europe strategy, it doesn't work like that, and you don't always win your home ones, so don't think you will always draw your away ones, therefore play to at least try and score a goal.

Skstu, you can say what you like, and I agree, but the result is the result and the results have been the same for a long time now, we still only managed a draw, and that was well into injury time. There is nothing to suggest that we will beat Scotland, other than "we are due a win".

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Keane played well. He was isolated for the first half but he was far more involved and dangerous when he had players in support in the second half. His harrying and chasing, as someone pointed out, led to a lot of possession in the oppositions half throughout the game. I agree that Long should be a starter and that Keane should be an impact sub at this stage of his career but really, you are doing the man and yourself a disservice with the way you analyse his performances and downplay his current value to the team. If you were balanced in your analysis I would listen more to what you have to say but I have never heard you have one good thing to say about him and during this particular game writing crap about getting him subbed off and Long on.

Like, we f*cking get it.

Its not his fault he is getting picked by successive managers and he is doing his best and, to be perfectly frank, he deserves a bit more from the likes of you given all that he has done for and in his country.

It was your brand of hyperbolic sh!t (and some others) that made me want to get out of here for a bit and not much has changed. Such entrenched positions add nothing to the quality of debate here. Stay silent on Keane and show us what else you have going on upstairs.

It cuts both ways. I have had to sit here countless times listening to people denigrate Long's performances and nitpick them even when he has been one of our best players (Serbia for example). He linked up excellently with Hoolahan against teams like Italy but that kind of performance never gains any traction whatsoever. Instead people just moan about him not taking his chances when he a goalscoring record of better than 1 in 2 starts for us and has never started consecutive competitive games!

What's hyperbolic to me is completely ignoring Shane's composed touch for the goal against Poland and instead focusing on how it was deflected. What's hyperbolic to me is having a go at Shane for getting booked against Austria in Dublin and ignoring Walters' culpability in Alaba having the space to score. What's hyperbolic to me is having a go at Shane for an innocuous foul deep in the Poland half and ignoring the fact that Walters almost gave away position cheaply in a crucial position. What's hyperbolic to me is telling me that I am not strenuously analysing Long's performance like I did Keane when Long came on when we were losing the match 0-1 with 10 minutes to go in a cauldron situation and Keane completed 90 minutes without barely touching the ball, making any kind of impact or exerting any kind of influence.

As I said, it's not a "grudge". I gave Walters 6 out of 10 and I praised his performance against Germany. I can call a spade a spade. But FFS Keane has been out of it against Austria, Portugal, Georgia, Germany, Poland. He had a fantastic performance against Faroe Islands and Gibraltar and Georgia over the last three years.

I can't remember the last time he had any kind of impact against a reasonable side, crucial goal against Sweden aside.

And I will praise Walters for this.

While the fans and players were getting carried away because of an equalising goal at home that leaves us with a considerable task in qualifying - showing our mentality, Walters was the only one remaining composed, bringing the ball back to the center circle and looking to get on with the task at hand.

I don't think he should be in the starting line up whether it's keeping McClean or Brady out or whether it's keeping Long out but he has a good attitude.

[SkStu]

Skstu, you can say what you like, and I agree, but the result is the result and the results have been the same for a long time now, we still only managed a draw, and that was well into injury time. There is nothing to suggest that we will beat Scotland, other than "we are due a win".

So, you agree with me. Nice one. I disagree with a few points you've made.

1) Our equalizer was 30 seconds into 5 minutes of injury time.
2) We hit the post twice (Keano, Bradser) before that and had two excellent chances to score (Wilson, Coleman) apart from that. I would suggest that our second half performance coupled with Scotlands general sloppiness against the Gibbies would suggest we will beat Scotland.
3) The results are, indeed, the results and we are three points off top spot.