Gibraltar (H) - Sat, 11th Oct. / Germany (A) - Tues, 14th Oct.

[DannyInvincible]

Otherwise as per my posts 'passim' from elsewhere, MO'N should have picked uncapped players with dual nationality, and got them 'tied' down.

They have to want to play for us first before we can select them. What players had you in mind? Harry Kane wants to play for England. Same with Mark Noble. Jack Grealish doesn't want to be forced into making a decision yet. Kyle Naughton's name is often bandied about as well, but he mustn't be too bothered or he'd surely have declared already. Meanwhile, it seems David McGoldrick is still sorting out his documents.

[ArdeeBhoy]

M'ON could have at least 'selected' them and if they all say No, fair enough. An end to more tedious speculation. At least for now.
Or they get tied down.

And none of them are ever likely to be picked by anyone else for whom they're also eligible.

[DannyInvincible]

Naughton, Kane and Noble would all have to submit to FIFA an application to switch from the FA to the FAI before we would be able to select them. The whole process can take a few weeks at the very least. All McGoldrick needs to do is get a passport but even that seems to be taking quite a while.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't agree AB. We don't need the fuss. There's actually been quite little speculation this time around anyway. That all was put out of the way last month, although of course people asked about Noble. I'm with O'Neill on this one.

It looks like this month's unnecessary fuss will be about Keane's new book. O' Neill attempted to laugh it off at the presser yesterday but I think it'll come to dominate discussion come match time.

I don't like the general tone of these conferences. There's a real us and them mentality emerging already and our media doesn't need a second chance to pounce on the team and the set up. It'd be nice if the press actually gave the management and players the benefit of the doubt and actually got behind the team, but as that only ever happens when a major tournament is around the corner I won't hold my breath.

Wrt comments on the the squad selection, and TOWK's criticism in particular, I have to say I partly agree, especially as it relates to the conservatism. I love the excitement of a young guy being called up and given a chance to impress. McCarthy specialised in it and it ultimately bore fruit.

That said, the squad does actually provide cover in the areas highlighted. The cupboard is bare at left back but after Ward there is Wilson, Delaney, Clark and McShane who can fit in - none is ideal, but probably no less ideal than a lower division candidate. That's O'Neill's thinking anyway and it's debatable, but not outrageously wrong anyway.

Meyler jumped up the queue of possible deputies for Coleman, and again McShane is probably next in line.

I didn't like O'Neill's quips about calling up any player eligible under the age of 80 or whatever it was he said. It kind of trivialised the selection.

What I did like, and I only saw it on thescore.ie, was where O'Neill said we need to take a positive attitude to Germany.

Once the froth is blown out of this enlarged squad there is still a decent core of players capable of putting in good performances if steered correctly by the management. I'm far from convinced that will happen, but I'll comment on things objectively as we learn more about how O'Neill approaches these competitive games.

[geysir]

The 23 man squad has yet to be selected from this list of possibles, before they are called up to attend squad training.

[the doc]

I don't agree AB. We don't need the fuss. There's actually been quite little speculation this time around anyway. That all was put out of the way last month, although of course people asked about Noble. I'm with O'Neill on this one.

It looks like this month's unnecessary fuss will be about Keane's new book. O' Neill attempted to laugh it off at the presser yesterday but I think it'll come to dominate discussion come match time.

I don't like the general tone of these conferences. There's a real us and them mentality emerging already and our media doesn't need a second chance to pounce on the team and the set up. It'd be nice if the press actually gave the management and players the benefit of the doubt and actually got behind the team, but as that only ever happens when a major tournament is around the corner I won't hold my breath.

Wrt comments on the the squad selection, and TOWK's criticism in particular, I have to say I partly agree, especially as it relates to the conservatism. I love the excitement of a young guy being called up and given a chance to impress. McCarthy specialised in it and it ultimately bore fruit.

That said, the squad does actually provide cover in the areas highlighted. The cupboard is bare at left back but after Ward there is Wilson, Delaney, Clark and McShane who can fit in - none is ideal, but probably no less ideal than a lower division candidate. That's O'Neill's thinking anyway and it's debatable, but not outrageously wrong anyway.

Meyler jumped up the queue of possible deputies for Coleman, and again McShane is probably next in line.

I didn't like O'Neill's quips about calling up any player eligible under the age of 80 or whatever it was he said. It kind of trivialised the selection.

What I did like, and I only saw it on thescore.ie, was where O'Neill said we need to take a positive attitude to Germany.

Once the froth is blown out of this enlarged squad there is still a decent core of players capable of putting in good performances if steered correctly by the management. I'm far from convinced that will happen, but I'll comment on things objectively as we learn more about how O'Neill approaches these competitive games.

Very good post with some good points made.

I like MON as a person, but wonder if he's a spent force management wise?

The Sunderland disaster and losing his right hand man Robertson has posed questions regards this.

We aren't going to learn much from the next 2 games.

We are expected to beat Gibraltar and likewise Germany to beat us, a draw against a Germany could be priceless in terms of qualifying.

We have the makings of a good competitive side if we are set up right, Mr Trapattoni showed that.
Add that to our passion and desire to wear the green shirt and backed by our fans, then we always have a chance.

Trouble is we can't win games without all our players being at least 90% of their top form, in contrast the likes of Germany can still get results with 3 or 4 player playing below form.

We all know its a mini league of Ireland, Scotland and Poland, if we come out on top of that we will qualify.

Let's just enjoy the campaign fellas.

[SwanVsDalton]

Say what you want about O'Neill, but I do like him griefing sports journos for their scruffiness (http://www.joe.ie/football/video-martin-oneill-ripped-the-****-out-of-irish-journalists-dress-sense-at-todays-press-conference/).

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, maybe I'm misreading the relationship between management and meeja. It was the very definition of a quiet news day after all.

[jbyrne]

Yeah, maybe I'm misreading the relationship between management and meeja.

I think the whole manager / media relationship thing has become far too much centre stage than it actually warrants over the last 10 years or so. Most of our media have their own agendas to follow resulting in pretty much constant criticism / borderline ridicule of the set-up and petty sniping. There are one or two I would listen to but most are miserable whingers in the most part.

[Stuttgart88]

I always have time for Liam Mackey, and usually for Dan McDonnell.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Naughton, Kane and Noble would all have to submit to FIFA an application to switch from the FA to the FAI before we would be able to select them. The whole process can take a few weeks at the very least. All McGoldrick needs to do is get a passport but even that seems to be taking quite a while.
That's why MO'N & co should have been doing legwork during the WC.
Fair enough it may take weeks and they may not be overly keen, but a question of finding who's eligible and tying them down ASAP.
Even if they only play once...


I don't agree AB. We don't need the fuss. There's actually been quite little speculation this time around anyway. That all was put out of the way last month, although of course people asked about Noble. I'm with O'Neill on this one.


I didn't like O'Neill's quips about calling up any player eligible under the age of 80 or whatever it was he said. It kind of trivialised the selection.

Once the froth is blown out of this enlarged squad there is still a decent core of players capable of putting in good performances if steered correctly by the management. I'm far from convinced that will happen, but I'll comment on things objectively as we learn more about how O'Neill approaches these competitive games.

A miniscule contradiction maybe by MO'N, and accept the wider point about his approach but the combination of an underwhelming playing style and personnel available will surely undermine the ultimate goal.
Or make it far harder than it should be?

[Stuttgart88]

If we all whip around and get you a, eh, lady of the night in Gelsenkirchen will it cheer you up a bit? :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's not these two games I'm worrying about!

Just that MO'N et al seem to be sleepwalking into problems. Though that can wait till next year!

[geysir]

Yeah, maybe I'm misreading the relationship between management and meeja. It was the very definition of a quiet news day after all.
I cant really see this as an issue, even an eventual issue in the making with the print media. O'Neill has handled much worse, is well able, is very well spoken and garners high respect from the public by dint of his character. And then we have Keane beside him. O'Neill's approach to the media has always been príckly, he gets his retaliation in, half an hour before a blow is struck and usually the print journalists are in awe of him. I think he'll be given a fair deal from those journos who are old campaigners themselves.
It's the rte crowd who have the potential for damage if they persist with their cheap, cowardly and caustic comments.

[paul_oshea]

If we all whip around and get you a, eh, lady of the night in Gelsenkirchen will it cheer you up a bit? :)

That's very good of you stutts but he is well able do that himself.

He doesn't need your experience or help!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Er, thanks PR.
:rolleyes:

Btw, Gelsenkirchen is a kip by all accounts...the Germans I know tell me to get in and get out ASAP! And that's just the Schalke fans...

[Charlie Darwin]

It's the rte crowd who have the potential for damage if they persist with their cheap, cowardly and caustic comments.
I suspect O'Neill knows as well as we do that the RTE panel will turn on him at some stage, it's only a matter of when. He strikes me as the sort of who won't waste time dancing when he knows he'll be dumped by the end of the night no matter what, so he's skipped the pleasantries.

On a side note, O'Neill's legal history with the (mainly print) media makes fascinating reading. It could certainly get interesting if any members of the panel are as, err, inattentive to detail as they have been in the past with regard to other people.

[Kingdom]

Personally I would have liked to see the Grealish "situation" sorted by now, purely because I think we could actually afford to have him in our squad now. The 'boy' is 19, he's an adult for the love of God, and he has qualities that I'd say only McGeady has within the senior squad at present. I saw question asked by someone elsewhere, and I know Stuttgart's seen it too, asking was Grealish able for full level senior football. I would say yes. Physically if he can stand up to the dirt that was directed at him last year in league two, at the wrong end of the division also, then physically he is able. I think that by the end of this season he'll be a mainstay of the Villa squad, and within two years, God knows where he might be.
It's for that reason that I was so disappointed that he wasn't brought as part of the large end-of-season party last year. This player isn't Terry Dixon; he's not Richie Partridge; he is going to be a talent, and will have a career ahead of himself.

However I was thinking the other day, and this may quite well relate to Mark Noble and a couple of others - and definitely to the Stephen Ireland problem a few years ago; what does it do for the confidence of the squad if Grealish is named in a squad, and then rejects the call-up, prefering to see how it plays out with England (because lets call a spade a spade, that's the crux of the issue), surely that puts a dampener on the squad, i.e. O'Neill wants x number of players, actively/aggressively pursues them, but they refuse, surely that makes the next replacements feel like after-thoughts? Maybe I'm over-analysing the situation.

As for the squad itself, I don't understand the point in naming the enlarged squad? Like at the moment I'm delighted to see Delaney there, but I'll be fierce ****ed off if he's dropped when the squad is trimmed down. Likewise Green; I've nothing against the chap, but if Jeff Hendrick is fit (I didnt think he was) then he should play against Gibralter, because he will be part of the future, whereby hopefully Green won't be. This match is as close to a competitive friendly as you will get, and wasting the experience on fellows who we know are limited (or politely put can fill a role) is not helpful.

Finally, I'm not sold on MonKeano, and haven't been in favour of it from the beginning, as I don't feel they can get the best out of the type of player we have. And really and truely, it won't be until the Scotland game where we can really start judging them on their merits, because these two games should have only one proper outcome: a win and a defeat.

[geysir]

I suspect O'Neill knows as well as we do that the RTE panel will turn on him at some stage, it's only a matter of when. He strikes me as the sort of who won't waste time dancing when he knows he'll be dumped by the end of the night no matter what, so he's skipped the pleasantries.

On a side note, O'Neill's legal history with the (mainly print) media makes fascinating reading. It could certainly get interesting if any members of the panel are as, err, inattentive to detail as they have been in the past with regard to other people.
There would be some sweet justice if he was to take an almighty slice out of Dunphy's pension hoard but I presume whatever Dunphy says on air is RTE's concern.

When he was leaving Celtic O'Neill was asked by one journalist about what kind of state he was leaving them, he replied 'better than when I came and certainly in a better state than you'.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Why are we accepting defeat against Germany as a foregone conclusion? This self-destructive attitude sums us up - a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Scotland and NI can play tight games that can go either way against teams of this magnitude then why can't we? Our pool of players is arguably better!

I do think a little bit of it comes down to attitude.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeXhoCNqJJQ

Can you imagine any of our boys showing this kind of attitude in Paris?

We badly need a Roy Keane figure in the locker room to force us to believe we can hang with these teams. Enough of this poxy, lily-livered attitude that has seen us go over 10 years without beating a half-decent team in competitive football.

[geysir]

Finally, MonKeano, ...... it won't be until the Scotland game where we can really start judging them on their merits, because these two games should have only one proper outcome: a win and a defeat.
One game---- two games ----- one proper outcome --- two outcomes :confused:

We will finish ahead of Scotland, O'Neill as a Celtic legend won't let that midget ex celtic manager get the better of him, it would be unthinkable.

[Stuttgart88]

He let another ginger get the better of him a few times up at Celtic.

O'Neill was quoted on thescore.ie about the need to be positive against Germany so hopefully he'll stick to his word. I hope he picks Hoolahan to enable ball retention and for an out ball on the ground. He was superb like this against Italy. In Georgia the out ball was a diagonal hoof to Walters.

And pre-empting Owls Fan's retort, I'm not saying Hoolahan is the messiah, but we are a better team when he plays. Germany will relish aimless hoofs up the touch line and into the corners.

[Charlie Darwin]

If Scotland and NI can play tight games that can go either way against teams of this magnitude then why can't we? Our pool of players is arguably better!
Are you feeling OK?

[DannyInvincible]

That's why MO'N & co should have been doing legwork during the WC.
Fair enough it may take weeks and they may not be overly keen, but a question of finding who's eligible and tying them down ASAP.
Even if they only play once...

It seems they have been seeking out eligible players behind the scenes, but how far should they go? David McGoldrick seems the only one who's responded positively. What else can they do really? You can't tie down a player if he doesn't want to commit and begging the likes of Mark Noble (or Stephen Ireland, for that matter) to come play for us is just demeaning. O'Neill's attitude with, say, Noble and Ireland, is spot on (the ball is in their court) and I get the impression he's in tune with the supporters generally on this matter; he's perceptive to the reality that the fans won't take very well to us chasing desperately after pretenders and mercenaries who couldn't really give a toss about representing Ireland.

[DannyInvincible]

As for the squad itself, I don't understand the point in naming the enlarged squad? Like at the moment I'm delighted to see Delaney there, but I'll be fierce ****ed off if he's dropped when the squad is trimmed down. Likewise Green; I've nothing against the chap, but if Jeff Hendrick is fit (I didnt think he was) then he should play against Gibralter, because he will be part of the future, whereby hopefully Green won't be. This match is as close to a competitive friendly as you will get, and wasting the experience on fellows who we know are limited (or politely put can fill a role) is not helpful.

I guess it lets those players that are in O'Neill's thoughts know they're in his thoughts, so they have a position to fight for or lose. Maybe it's a motivational carrot of sorts.

Ideally, the Grealish situation would be sorted, but, as I've said to AB, what can you do really if a player isn't willing to conform with the hopes and plans you ahve for him? I wonder would having taken him on the US tour and played him in a few of the games influenced matters differently... It's impossible to say really. Either way, it's a situation that is presently outside of our control. We can, of course, try and influence him in the hope he decides to commit to us, but, ultimately, it's still a choice Grealish himself has to make.

[paul_oshea]

It's a choice England have to make ; )

[Stuttgart88]

Can you imagine any of our boys showing this kind of attitude in Paris? yeah, none of our players was upset after Paris. Sure wasn't it great to just be in a play off.

[DeLorean]

I presumed I was misunderstanding his point.

[DannyInvincible]

yeah, none of our players was upset after Paris. Sure wasn't it great to just be in a play off.

Kevin Doyle sounded like he was holding back tears in the post-match interview.

[geysir]

It seems they have been seeking out eligible players behind the scenes, but how far should they go? David McGoldrick seems the only one who's responded positively. What else can they do really? You can't tie down a player if he doesn't want to commit and begging the likes of Mark Noble (or Stephen Ireland, for that matter) to come play for us is just demeaning. O'Neill's attitude with, say, Noble and Ireland, is spot on (the ball is in their court) and I get the impression he's in tune with the supporters generally on this matter; he's perceptive to the reality that the fans won't take very well to us chasing desperately after pretenders and mercenaries who couldn't really give a toss about representing Ireland.
O'Neill is by a (country?) mile the most articulate football intelligent manager we have had .... ever. Doesn't mean he is the best ever manager but oft times he is seriously underestimated by self appointed experts, much to his chagrin.
So far, O'Neill's expressed attitude has been spot on as regards the potential 'plastics'. What has muddied the waters were various reports and our own fears/suspicions raring up as they do, it is a sensitive area where there are undefined boundaries to be regarded. His respectful attitude to Grealish and his dad was well appreciated by them both and if it did come down to Grealish being inspired by the sentiments of the manager, we can trust that O'Neill could express exactly what was required at that moment in time.

[OwlsFan]

We badly need a Roy Keane figure in the locker room to force us to believe we can hang with these teams. Enough of this poxy, lily-livered attitude that has seen us go over 10 years without beating a half-decent team in competitive football.

"A Roy Keane figure" - the same man who presided over 10 league defeats in 14 matches for Ipswich, a sequence which resulted in his team dropping to 19th place in the Championship table. Yes we need that type of figure ok.

Over the past 10 years (excluding the last two) (in fact I'd say 20 years) we have way out performed your heroes in Scotland and Norn Iron (who lost at home to Luxembourg recently I think). Our record against the bigger teams as regards wins is not great ok but it has nothing to do with attitude. What we have done (excluding the past couple of years) consistently is beat our lessers, equal our equals and equal/lose to our betters. If every team can do this we'll qualify for tournaments or be there or there about. I have never seen an Irish team roll over except arguably against Italy/Spain in Poland countries and Germany in Dublin (due mostly to errors for every goal), all nearing the end of Trap's reign.

I am not sure what you mean about our boys in Paris?

[Kingdom]

"A Roy Keane figure" - the same man who presided over 10 league defeats in 14 matches for Ipswich, a sequence which resulted in his team dropping to 19th place in the Championship table. Yes we need that type of figure ok.

Over the past 10 years (excluding the last two) (in fact I'd say 20 years) we have way out performed your heroes in Scotland and Norn Iron (who lost at home to Luxembourg recently I think). Our record against the bigger teams as regards wins is not great ok but it has nothing to do with attitude. What we have done (excluding the past couple of years) consistently is beat our lessers, equal our equals and equal/lose to our betters. If every team can do this we'll qualify for tournaments or be there or there about. I have never seen an Irish team roll over except arguably against Italy/Spain in Poland countries and Germany in Dublin (due mostly to errors for every goal), all nearing the end of Trap's reign.

I am not sure what you mean about our boys in Paris?

I would say some of the performances and/or against the better teams and equals has been entirely down to attitude, either from the presiding manager, or the players. Bulgaria, Slovakia and Austria are just some of the examples that come to mind.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It seems they have been seeking out eligible players behind the scenes, but how far should they go? David McGoldrick seems the only one who's responded positively. What else can they do really? You can't tie down a player if he doesn't want to commit and begging the likes of Mark Noble (or Stephen Ireland, for that matter) to come play for us is just demeaning. O'Neill's attitude with, say, Noble and Ireland, is spot on (the ball is in their court) and I get the impression he's in tune with the supporters generally on this matter; he's perceptive to the reality that the fans won't take very well to us chasing desperately after pretenders and mercenaries who couldn't really give a toss about representing Ireland.


O'Neill is by a (country?) mile the most articulate football intelligent manager we have had .... ever. Doesn't mean he is the best ever manager but oft times he is seriously underestimated by self appointed experts, much to his chagrin.
So far, O'Neill's expressed attitude has been spot on as regards the potential 'plastics'. What has muddied the waters were various reports and our own fears/suspicions raring up as they do, it is a sensitive area where there are undefined boundaries to be regarded. His respectful attitude to Grealish and his dad was well appreciated by them both and if it did come down to Grealish being inspired by the sentiments of the manager, we can trust that O'Neill could express exactly what was required at that moment in time.
Fair points both, but reckon we'll regret this in about 5 years time (if not sooner!), when we're even more mediocre than we are now...

Oh well, luckily wasn't overly interested in qualifying for the next 3 tournaments, unless the next 2 WC venues change.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I never said anything about Roy Keane's managerial prowess. I said we need a Roy Keane figure among the players. And Roy did a fantastic job as manager of Sunderland and his presence has had an invigorating effect on Aston Villa this season.

Scotland and NI are not my heroes. I am just showing some concern about our complete inability to beat teams of a comparable standard to us and this culture of talking up draws against teams like Slovakia and Sweden. It's ingrained in our Intl. footballing mentality now - in no small part due to Trapattoni. Fair enough we can equal our equals but we are going to have to beat one of Poland, Scotland or Germany to get into Euro 2016. It's as simple as that. Can anyone reasonably expect us to do that on the basis of our performance against Georgia and Scotland's performance against Germany?

People on here are saying the October games are formalities. I don't want to hear that. Far worse teams than us have embarrassed teams like Portugal in recent past and inferior teams have given Spain and Germany harder tests. And yes, frankly, I do think a little of it comes down to attitude.

Sorry if I belittled the emotions of our boys in Paris - that wasn't my intention. But the sad fact of the matter is if we didn't show an abject France side so much respect we could have got something from the first leg and if we had the bottle to take our chances in Paris, we would have got more than one goal. They were a daunting task in name only - as was proven by their performances immediately prior and immediately after our two games.

[SwanVsDalton]

I know you've already clarified your comments but...


We badly need a Roy Keane figure in the locker room to force us to believe we can hang with these teams. Enough of this poxy, lily-livered attitude that has seen us go over 10 years without beating a half-decent team in competitive football.

...ahhh don't we have the Roy Keane figure in the locker room?

Also I fully expect us to lose to Germany, but we're not playing in the match. I'd expect the players to have a different attitude. What the fans think and what the players think should never be mistaken as the same thing.


Can anyone reasonably expect us to do that on the basis of our performance against Georgia and Scotland's performance against Germany?

Yes. Scotland defended like jokers. I expect our expert finishers to show those profligate Germans where the net is. :)

[DeLorean]

Sorry if I belittled the emotions of our boys in Paris - that wasn't my intention. But the sad fact of the matter is if we didn't show an abject France side so much respect we could have got something from the first leg and if we had the bottle to take our chances in Paris, we would have got more than one goal. They were a daunting task in name only - as was proven by their performances immediately prior and immediately after our two games.

Your point still made no sense because Scotland lost the game where Dailly's rant was caught on air. It proves nothing in terms of how little they respected the Germans on the pitch and it would seem they didn't have the bottle to take their chances either.

[WexCar]

Oh well, luckily wasn't overly interested in qualifying for the next 3 tournaments, unless the next 2 WC venues change.

Thats an odd POV (IMO). Whoever the hosts are wouldnt usually factor so heavily into a persons interest in qualification, apart from your more extreme bandwagoners/fairweather fans who attend just so they can say they attended.

[Stuttgart88]

I doubt very much Keane and O'Neill will be taking a defeatist attitude to Germany. We're up against a different class of team but they'll be looking at the likes of Ghana and USA who gave them a tough time. So did Algeria. It's different to expect Germany to win the group and to publicly say so, because that's pretty certain I'd say. It's not certain they won't drop points in doing so. O'Neill may not be famous for his sophisticated brand of football but he is renowned for motivation.

I still don't read too much into Scotland's performance in Germany and ours to Georgia. On another night Scotland might have lost 3-0. We need to improve on our Georgian performance but I don't see why we can't. Scotland are a year further into their project than we are into ours. There's more capacity for us to get better. I think we've got better players except for goalkeeper and left back.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Thats an odd POV (IMO). Whoever the hosts are wouldnt usually factor so heavily into a persons interest in qualification
Because we shouldn't live in a bubble...
Russia (not exclusively) have a pretty lamentable record re.their minorities, racism and LBGT issues amongst others and a certain predilection to invade their neighbours. as confirmed by Georgians recently.
As for Qatar, that was a decision primarily based on backhanders and corruption. Plus the weather conditions are entirely unsuitable.

No fan of China (see Russia) but they deserve it a 100 times more than Qatar. Even Saudi Arabia do, though Morocco or Australia would be my preferences.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree with all of that AB, but I'll still be elated if we qualify. Always better to qualify than not, even if the host country has lamentable rights standards. One of my favourite ever WCs was Argentina, then under military dictatorship.

Hopefully Qatar will lose theirs and FIFA will be held to account for its cronyism and corruption long beforehand.

[ArdeeBhoy]

2016 is possible despite my rampant pessimism. If those WC venues stay the same, won't be that disappointed if we end up missing out.
Hopefully they will both change if the FIFA clowns ever get their act together?

Unless we get the luckiest draw ever, a jump in our seeding pot (or two) and/or a massive influx of new players, think we can write off the next two WC's anyway, hopefully the U-17's et al can give more optimism for 2024 & beyond.

[Stuttgart88]

Much as we can deride McClean for his attitude and one dimensional style of play, the raw pace he displayed against Ipswich last week has me thinking we should play a 433 of sorts in Germany, with McClean and McGeady flanking Long, and a solid midfield 3 led by McCarthy, with two of Hoolahan, Whelan, Meyler and Hendrick. I'm not sure Gibson is ready yet.

This is premised on Germany playing a high line and being vulnerable to pace, like they were against Algeria. Of course Mertesacker is no longer in the team but Scotland's goal was scored from a break from deep and Germany were caught out by pace.



------------------Keeper --------------
Coleman - O'Shea - Delaney - Wilson
----------McCarthy ----- Whelan
McGeady ------ Hoolahan -------- McClean
----------------- Long ---------------

[ArdeeBhoy]

Get rid of Whelan and we have a deal...

[Kingdom]

Much as we can deride McClean for his attitude and one dimensional style of play, the raw pace he displayed against Ipswich last week has me thinking we should play a 433 of sorts in Germany, with McClean and McGeady flanking Long, and a solid midfield 3 led by McCarthy, with two of Hoolahan, Whelan, Meyler and Hendrick. I'm not sure Gibson is ready yet.

This is premised on Germany playing a high line and being vulnerable to pace, like they were against Algeria. Of course Mertesacker is no longer in the team but Scotland's goal was scored from a break from deep and Germany were caught out by pace.



------------------Keeper --------------
Coleman - O'Shea - Delaney - Wilson
----------McCarthy ----- Whelan
McGeady ------ Hoolahan -------- McClean
----------------- Long ---------------


That's not bad, and it's a plan that could definitely bear fruit. Is it likely? Possibly, but really I just don't believe any word from O'Neill about being positive against Germany away. The statement that Wes will feature more at home (can't provide link, but pretty sure it was widely reported) rather than away was telling for me. I think he'll now look to use McGeady in that role behind the lone striker, and utilise Walters as the workhorse out wide.

Just looking at those players you've picked above.

--------------------------------Keeper

-------------OShea-----------Delaney---------Wilson

Coleman---------------------------------------------------McClean
------------------------------- Whelan

=----------------McCarthy-----------------Hoolahan

-------------------------------McGeady

---------------------------------Long

I wouldn't actually mind seeing O'Neill use whatever friendlies he has next year at trying out his 5-3-2 formation that worked initially for him at Celtic.
That's the position I think McClean would be best utilised in. Coleman is a natural wing-back. The midfield three is probably more natural with Gibson, or Quinn/Hendrick at a push.

[DeLorean]

Get rid of Whelan and we have a deal...

------------------Keeper --------------
Coleman - O'Shea - Delaney - Wilson
-----------------McCarthy --------------
McGeady ------ Hoolahan -------- McClean
----------------- Long ---------------


Funnily enough... it actually looks a stronger team :)

[Predator]

Get rid of Whelan and we have a deal...
We'd hardly beat them with 10 men!

[DannyInvincible]

Is there any reason why we shouldn't experiment with the Zeman 2-0-8 (http://www.joe.ie/football/pic-cagliari-tried-out-the-rarely-used-2-0-9-formation-at-the-weekend-and-beat-inter-4-1/) against Gibraltar?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BysipuaIQAABbGp.png:large

[ArdeeBhoy]

We'd hardly beat them with 10 men!

Agreed, but with Ward or Whelan, we might as well have ten...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Something about Coleman/McCarthy being out for these two games, not it matters overly, though couldn't find a working link...

So all those people saying we shouldn't have called up Naughton & Noble could well be wrong...

[Stuttgart88]

Are you saying your pessimism about our chances in Germany would be removed if we had Noble and Naughton instead of Coleman and McCarthy, despite the latter being better players?