Gibraltar (H) - Sat, 11th Oct. / Germany (A) - Tues, 14th Oct.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah. You're right. The win against Gibraltar is guaranteed. Just look at the way we blitzed Kazakhstan and Faroe Islands away with no problems.

And the players should just treat the Germany game as a friendly and sing the Fields of Athenry and have a few cans with the fans after the game.

Sure Scotland had a competitive game with Germany but that's Scotland. We're just Ireland like. Have a few cans and it'll be alright. We might get a draw against Poland if we're lucky.

Only a few contradictions there...
;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

They got in a shoving match ardee.


And the relevance of this to 2016 is?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

No. At the end of the day, either team can win. Except Ireland seemingly.

Northern Ireland and Scotland are more than capable of dropping points against small nations, as has been pointed out plenty of times, but they are also more than capable of taking points off bigger nations. We are just as good as these teams. There is no reason that we shouldn't be able to do it.

There are no gimmes in Intl. football anymore. Top sides like Portugal, Croatia, Italy, France, England and even Spain have dropped points to nations much smaller than us.

A narrow loss to Germany would be progress but people here are going on like a heavy loss should be a formality and it's the kind of attitude that has even seeped on to the official FAI page.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and it needs to stop.

This is the exact same kind of attitude and belief that has been allowed to insidiously fester - that has become so ingrained - and we have needlessly dropped points from winning positions time and time again against teams like Italy, Austria and Sweden precisely because of it.

It's like we are scared to win. Ever wonder why!

[Stuttgart88]

There is so much nonsense regularly spouted about not having the players anymore, blindly overlooking the fact that the type of teams we need to beat don't have that type of calibre player either. It infuriates me. I wouldn't get too wound up by AB's defeatism. We all know we're up against it but it's only a game of football and I've seen so many daft results in my life i'll never rule out Ireland getting one in Germany. We should have been spanked in Amsterdam by a Dutch team that wiped the floor with a quality Yugoslavia only ten weeks earlier and look what happened. Likewise we should have been spanked in Stuttgart in 2006.

I wouldn't read anything into the FAI mentality. They have a social media team who tweeted "gulp" when Germany won the WC. It's hardly confirmation O'Neill is cowering behind his sofa.

Again, I think (nearly) everyone's capable of finding cause for hope. Ghana, Scotland, Algeria, injury, retirements...

Hope is different to expectation but I certainly want to see a positive attitude which, in my opinion, will start with a positive selection.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No. At the end of the day, either team can win. Except Ireland seemingly.

Northern Ireland and Scotland are more than capable of dropping points against small nations, as has been pointed out plenty of times, but they are also more than capable of taking points off bigger nations. We are just as good as these teams. There is no reason that we shouldn't be able to do it.

There are no gimmes in Intl. football anymore. Top sides like Portugal, Croatia, Italy, France, England and even Spain have dropped points to nations much smaller than us.

A narrow loss to Germany would be progress but people here are going on like a heavy loss should be a formality and it's the kind of attitude that has even seeped on to the official FAI page.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and it needs to stop.

This is the exact same kind of attitude and belief that has been allowed to insidiously fester - that has become so ingrained - and we have needlessly dropped points from winning positions time and time again against teams like Italy, Austria and Sweden precisely because of it.

It's like we are scared to win. Ever wonder why!

Hear what you say, explained elsewere why we're likely to lose.
Don't want it to happen, especially another hammering, but Germany currently are strong, very strong. Plus they hardly ever lose qualifiers, ever to anyone, especially at home,

Agree otherwise plenty of 'shock results' and we can (always have?) been able to grind out draws v.major teams, on occasion.
Though, would be amazed if that happens this time. Our win record in the last 20 years v. these sides is pretty mediocre, in terms of many wins.
History against us in that respect!

Out with a load of German pals last night and none gave us a prayer, not arrogance, just an understated inner confidence.

[Charlie Darwin]

Germany are 90% favourites to win by a couple of goals, but there's always the 10% chance we'll push them close or, just maybe, get a result. We'll both be 2/2 going into the match and it might suit Germany just to keep it tight and a point wouldn't be the worst result.

[DeLorean]

Is it that inevitable that Germany will win in Poland? Realistically, I think they're far more likely to slip up there than against us.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Germany will want to win v.us and will expect to, simply because they don't see us as a threat. As for slipping up in Polska, the Poles appear to have quite an inferiority issue v. Germany, so would be amazed if they took more than one point out of six.

Realistically, until qualification is assured, don't see Deutschland slipping up. Maybe they will relax in their later group games?

[DeLorean]

Yeah but one point from six would be a good return for them. I'd take it for us being honest. You're right though, Poland never seem to perform against Germany, even mediocre German sides... hope that continues.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is it that inevitable that Germany will win in Poland? Realistically, I think they're far more likely to slip up there than against us.
I'd say it's 90% like it is with us.

[DeLorean]

I think home advantage gives the Poles a significantly better chance, coupled with that fact that we're starting to look a bit depleted.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but it's more than a year till we pay in Polska, rather more important. Even I won't write us off in that one, but in general, we draw too many games, which could be what could cost us v. the Scots & Poles.

The latter might do something next weekend, but realistically a narrow defeat at best?

[DannyInvincible]

Hoping for a win in Germany would be fanciful, although it's not as if we therefore ought to just assume defeat/shouldn't bother trying. The terribly depressing and soul-destroying thing about the latter spell of Trapattoni's reign was the seeming loss of heart of the team. Sure, defeat might have been likely in certain games no matter how we played, but to seemingly surrender to the presumption rather than truly giving it our best shot and going out on the offensive (and I don't mean being recklessly gung-ho), even if, in all likelihood, it would ultimately be in vain, was very disheartening. The likelihood is that we will lose to Germany, true, but that small chance we do have of getting something out of the game is one that is worth fighting tooth and nail for. Nobody wants to feel like we've sold ourselves short come the final whistle. Even a draw in Gelsenkirchen would be a tremendous result and a very valuable point in the overall scheme of things. We've had opposition and their fans quietly and confidently write us off before (Italy, Holland twice and, more recently, France...), but we haven't always followed that script. If all goes to plan against Gibraltar, it should provide us with a much-needed morale-boosting springboard from which we can carry a bit of momentum into Tuesday's game.

Just on McCarthy's fatigue/injury, there seems to be this impression amongst some of our supporters that Martinez has something in particular against James lining out for us. Yesterday, the YBIG Facebook page posted up the following (https://www.facebook.com/YBIGireland/posts/819358298084230), which inevitably drew a few likes and words of agreement:


Roberto Martinez didn't want James McCarthy playing for Ireland when he was at Wigan and it seems he still doesn't want him playing for us. I don't like the aforementioned Martinez. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/james-mccarthy-left-out-of-ireland-squad-to-play-gibraltar-30637872.html

I don't think such an opinion bears scrutiny though. Martinez has always struck me as an amicable chap and I understand he has a good relationship with our management team. He has never had any problem with releasing fully fit players - including Coleman, Gibson and McGeady - for international games. When McCarthy missed a couple of friendly games for us whilst at Wigan, he was either injured or not 100 per cent fit and protecting himself from aggravating a recurring ankle injury at the time. Our management team and doctor had no issue with this then and all parties were in common agreement that rest from non-competitive fixtures was the best option for the lad. McCarthy has been in plenty of friendly squads since whilst playing under Martinez at club level.

As far as McCarthy's absence from the Gibraltar squad is concerned, that's not Martinez's call. He might prefer McCarthy be rested and might well have conversed with our management with regard to the player's fitness, but, ultimately, he has no jurisdiction here. It's completely O'Neill's call as clubs have absolutely no power whatsoever to withhold their players from competitive international duty under FIFA regulations. If McCarthy has been left out for rest and recuperation, it hasn't been the doing of Martinez.

As it stands, there has been no confirmation from the FAI as to whether both McCarthy and Coleman will definitely miss Germany, although things don't look promising if Martinez's words are to be taken at face value. Will both players be assessed by the FAI doctor before Gelsenkirchen? I hope so. I don't think Martinez would try to hoodwink us - and I'm sure both players would be desperate to play in such a massive game if fit - but I would like to think there is still some hope that both can make it. I'll remain in healthy denial until I hear the FAI say neither will partake, preferably after both have had a check-up with Dr. Alan Byrne. :o


Chaps who would win in an actual fight between Mourinho and Wenger?

Wenger ought to pick on someone his own size!: https://vine.co/v/OKhFVvJ1UYW

[Charlie Darwin]

The Martinez/McCarthy conspiracy theory was embarrassing at the time and it's even more embarrassing that people would bring it up now.

[DeLorean]

I'd say it's 90% like it is with us.

I don't think the bookies would see it that way. Germany are 8/15 to beat Poland by Paddy Power. I haven't seen the odds for our game against them yet but I'd imagine they'll be far less backable, maybe 1/4 or so.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The thing with McCarthy is certainly doesn't matter if plays v. the theme park and probably the Germans too...the former was a game to try to bring in new players, even those of more questionable eligibilty and try to find some of the 'new blood' we desperately need. Or will do in due course.
Ideally MO'N would have his strongest XI who might be capable of giving the Germans a real game, but with even 1-2 of those missing, we're already looking at a damage limitation exercise. Ideally, we'd hold out for 80 mins and then score, but firmly believe even with that 'strongest XI', we're incapable of doing that.

Hence the importance of not irritating their clubs and hoping we have our strongest XI ready for Scotland.
See Adam, Fletcher & Naismith all scored this weekend in the EPL, so far from confident we can keep a clean sheet and without certain players, our chances of a result there are diminished too.

But agreed whilst not world-beaters, their main strength is a more settled team and pattern of play.
The latter has been a failing for years, if only as most experienced Ireland-watchers will tell you there's very little consistency in this respect.
Certainly Georgia was full of misplaced passes which doesn't augur overly well IMO.

[Kingdom]

I normally don't get too worried with highlights of Irish players, but it was a fing nightmare to watch the best(worst) of Stoke & Sunderland. Wilson looked absolutely hapless against one of the most dysfunctional forward lines of recent times, I mean for the second Fletcher goal (that's a joke in itself, Fletcher scoring two goals, nevermind in a game) he is walking away before the ball is even struck into the net. That was nearly eclipsed by O'Shea's defending for Charlie Adam's goal. For me, a connoisseur of decent defending, that was a freakin' nightmare.

And not to show bias, Delaney didn't cover himself in glory against Hull either. Although he was very unlucky not to score with a header cleared off the line.

I know that generally Irish players raise their game when they go on duty for the national side, but it's one thing going into a game with the National team looking to prove people wrong (if you're not getting game time at your club - Quinn, Ward, Walters, Gibson), and a totally different thing trying to gain some form if you or your team are in the doldrums. I think that's probably what has me in so much trepidation going forward in this campaign, and really it's of no fault of the management. We have average defenders (in comparison to midfield and attack) and compounding this is their lack of form.

[Stuttgart88]

Looks like Stokes is free to play. Trial date set for May 2015.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1006/650375-anthony-stokes/

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's a shame, he was pretty poor yesterday...

[Stuttgart88]

Just saw Daryl Murphy's goals on SKY. Very impressive.

Stephen Henderson looked a bit slow down for Birmingham's equaliser.

Oh, and Jordan Rhodes missed a penalty :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

But will Murphy play v.Scotland? I doubt it. And Fletcher/Naismith/Rhodes look on paper, as good as our strikers. Also a joke Damien Delaney keeps being ignored too...worthy of a place on the bench at least.

[Stuttgart88]

Only Naismith of their forwards worries me really. Our defenders have coped with far better forwards than the others.

Our other forwards are at least as good as their other forwards.

I think Scotland v Ireland will be really good actually. Regardless of the nature of these games, O'Neill has nearly two weeks with the team which can only be a good thing. By the time we go to Glasgow O'Neill will have had two more games and a lot more touch time with the squad. This is our own chance to generate some of the momentum that Scotland have.

I still think its too early to have any real idea of how O'Neill is doing. The friendlies were all over the shop for all kinds of reasons and Georgia was worryingly like Trap. My hope is that O'Neill is continuing to learn and continuing to seek to adjust and adapt. I'm praying he isn't as one dimensional as his predecessor.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't see anything like that scope for optimism, but unlike Deutschland, we can get a draw v.Scotland.

[Charlie Darwin]

McCarthy formally ruled out of both games: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/james-mccarthy-to-miss-crucial-euro-clash-with-germany-30640598.html

[geysir]

Delaney, in his curious absence from the squad, will be elevated to (previously unhoped for) supreme legend status, by the RTE panel this weekend.

[Charlie Darwin]

Delaney, in his curious absence from the squad, will be elevated to (previously unhoped for) supreme legend status, by the RTE panel this weekend.
"Stephen Kelly is a good, honest lad, and the way he's been treated by this clueless..."

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

"There is no natural right back in the squad"

Richard Keogh has plenty of experience playing in that position; we could play him there where he wouldn't be as exposed. If Damien Delaney was still in the squad we could play him on the opposite flank against Germany rather than Ward. There you have four defensively minded players who all have experience playing in the positions they are playing in and it's not like we will be going gung ho against Germany so they don't have to venture too forward.

Other than that, it looks like Meyler.

Re: Stephen Kelly

I think what offended people so much about how he was treated was not that he was an extremely talented player, rather he was a thorough professional and quiet, inoffensive lad - and the fact that Trapattoni managed to offend him said a lot about how lousy and downright incompetent his man-managing skills were.

Some of the stuff Trapattoni came out with about Kelly, Steven Reid and Andy Reid could have resulted in legal action in any other profession.

[Kingdom]

McCarthy formally ruled out of both games: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/james-mccarthy-to-miss-crucial-euro-clash-with-germany-30640598.html

Bummer. Could force MON into being more attacking than he would have liked. With Meyler likely to fill in at right back in Coleman's absence, then that probably leaves Quinn and Gibbo battling for the central midfield spot, or Wes if he decides to play the same type of formation as against Georgia.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be as amazed if Meyler doesn't start at right back now as I was when he started at right back in the Oman game!

On the bright side, if Coleman doesn't play then at least he won't give away a penalty :)

The McCarthy that plays for Ireland is more easily replaced than the one who plays for Everton. I hope O'Neill goes back to the Italy friendly template which worked pretty well. As far as I can recall Meyler, Hendrick were in the middle, McGeady, Pilkington and Hoolahan played with more attacking license and Long worked his nuts off up front and on another day might have scored a couple.

Whelan will be picked no doubt and Meyler will probably play RB.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd be as amazed if Meyler doesn't start at right back now as I was when he started at right back in the Oman game!

On the bright side, if Coleman doesn't play then at least he won't give away a penalty :)
I was rather hoping he'd get his inevitable penalty out of the way against Gibraltar :(

[ArdeeBhoy]

Even we're not that bad...

[geysir]

AB, amidst all the despair, you should be able to derive some pleasure in a tonking of Gibraltar.

[Crosby87]

Keane says Fergie didnt own Rock of Gibralter.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2782522/Roy-Keane-slams-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-Rock-Gibraltar-dispute.html

[ArdeeBhoy]

AB, amidst all the despair, you should be able to derive some pleasure in a tonking of Gibraltar.

Well yeah, but wasn't he implying Coleman would concede a penalty? Though why I don't know.
But have this feeling they (the theme park) will score in one of the two games...

[tetsujin1979]

Was this not widely known? I've always assumed Magnier and McManus were the owners, and Ferguson let them race it with his family colours.

[Charlie Darwin]

Was this not widely known? I've always assumed Magnier and McManus were the owners, and Ferguson let them race it with his family colours.
That would hardly sell papers, would it?

[ArdeeBhoy]

The view from the theme park...
http://pogmogoal.com/euro-2016-2/gibraltar-view-ireland-shouldnt-expect-that-massive-win/20091/

[Charlie Darwin]

What's this theme park ****e about?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Even you can work that one out.
;)

[DannyInvincible]

Well yeah, but wasn't he implying Coleman would concede a penalty? Though why I don't know.

Wasn't it POS who once said that Coleman was always a penalty waiting to happen due to his unrefined, shoulder-barging GAA roots? We've just been waiting a few years, sure, but it's simply in his blood, so it will happen...

[Charlie Darwin]

Wasn't it POS who once said that Coleman was always a penalty waiting to happen due to his unrefined, shoulder-barging GAA roots? We've just been waiting a few years, sure, but it's simply in his blood, so it will happen...
To be fair, he did concede a penalty a year or so ago, which is proof that POS is an oracle of truth.

[Stuttgart88]

Well yeah, but wasn't he implying Coleman would concede a penalty? Though why I don't know.
Because Paul O'Shea worries that he has the concession of a penalty in him in every game. In fairness, he does have a tendency to get the wrong side in the box, and put his arms over the attacker's shoulder.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, Danny said so, but is his record of conceding penalties that bad?
Isn't his 'own goals' record worse?

[DeLorean]

No, it's not that bad, that's why they're taking the p!ss.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Really?
:eek:

[DeLorean]

What's so hard to believe?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who knows...

[Charlie Darwin]

Brian Lenihan called up, just over a month after leaving Cork City.

[Kingdom]

Just looked at the highlights from the game back last year. There are a few things that stand out:

. Very obviously they are the better team, but we absolutely did not make things easy for ourselves by how far we retreated from very early on in the game. I don't think this is a King issue either, it's something that went on in Mick's time.
. Their first goal came from a bit of overcomplication from Stokes, despite some excellent work by Coleman and Whelan.
. Forde was excellent. Stephen Kelly was not.
. Stokes despite not scoring, got himself into some brilliant positions, and we had a number of chances where we should have scored, not could.


I would like to see how we would fare out if we pressed much higher up the pitch. Germany are a superb technical team, and leaving them free to have the ball at the back, with one of their central players collecting and distributing, is a recipe for disaster. Conversely, I think with a bit of pressure on the player and the ball, Hummels and Mustafi. I would second guess they'll pick

Mustafi--Boateng -- Hummels-- Duerm

For me, that's a back 4 that absolutely must be attacked and pressurised. If we do that, I think it will have a huge effect on the game. I think we have the players that could that also, and not necessarily the players everyone expects. I'd start with Stokes up top, with McGeady, Long, and McClean behind them, or have a front three of McGeady, Stokes, Long, with Stokes the furthest forward... and while he isn't everyone's cup of tea, Jon Walters is excellent at this type of strategy so I wouldn't rule him out of the picture totally.

That's an obvious game plan, and looking at it objectively, if you're not going to attack them, then it goes without saying that you must harbour only hopes of a draw, and therefore pick your most defensive team possible to try to shut out Germany. That just will not work for us, because we don't have a back 4 that can withstand 90 mins of non-stop pressure, and this German side are about as good as any side going forward that anyone has seen at international level.

----------------Westwood-------------
--Meyler---OShea------Wilson----Ward--

------Gibson----Whelan----Quinn---

------AMcG/S----Stokes-----AMcG/JMcC--

as things stand at the moment for me.

[Closed Account]

Brian Lenihan called up, just over a month after leaving Cork City.
Jebus, was he on the same flight as Meyler or something and tagged along? A harmless inclusion as it's very unlikely a debutant, be it Doherty or anyone else would see game time against Germany. McShane must be worried about getting back into the squad now.

Serious amount of beards in the squad at the minute. All trying to impress Keano?
http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF315/922491.jpghttp://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF315/922489.jpg