Euro 2016 Qualifying

[OwlsFan]

I have enjoyed this trip down memory lane in a thread about Euro 2016. As for Estonia, I noticed they drew 2-2 at home with the Netherlands in a World Cup qualifier this month. I don't think we've ever got the credit that was due for going there and thumping them in what was the biggest game in their history.

Luck ? Strangely most good managers are lucky. Can't quite understand that but it's true. Mind you whatever luck Trap had ran out when we drew 3 of the best teams in the world in our group at Euro 2012 but that seems to be overlooked(lucked).

[bennocelt]

Yes it was a pretty good team, but didn't do much at the 2002 World Cup, therefore I said they didn't have a great team, by Portugal standards.
Didn't they manage to get well beaten by the USA, who are probably ranked as cr'ap by those who think we blundered our way to the 2012 Euros? :)

The worst world cup i have ever seen, just saying:)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Nah, 2010 by a country mile.

'02 was OK, just nobody in the host country had the fecking licence to show the games...

[pineapple stu]

The worst world cup i have ever seen, just saying:)
Must have missed Italia 90 so.

Brazil 5-2 Costa Rica in 2002 had more excitement than the entire of Italia 90.

[Crosby87]

What was the best world cup?

[gastric]

For controversy, 86 when Maradona single-handedly won the World Cup. Seeing the English whinge and carry on gave me some much pleasure at the time!

[BonnieShels]

Having only been alive for:

1986- Was only 2. Haven't a notion.

1990- Throughly enjoyed it but as a six year old didn't really get the significance of the whole thing. Never knew that we didn't get there all that often.

1994- Bar the brainfart that was the Holland game I loved this World Cup. Partly because it's the first one I really properly remember watching most of the games in but also because of McGrath in Giants Stadium.'Nuff sed!

1998- Brilliant. Absolutely incredible World Cup. That Brazil got a tonking in the Final added to the occasion.

2002- Enjoyable for the most part because we were there. I still feel frustration over the Spain result to this day. And not forgetting the Saipan. Oooh Saipan, Spain, Saipan, Spain... But the hope of the Group stages live on. Getting to go into work in Arnotts at stupid o'clock and having breakfast up in the canteen watching the Cameroon game was class. Mick's eyes when Robbie scored. Pure joy. Then Ian Harte stepped up to take that penalty...

2006- It was because of this world cup that I came home from Australia early. There was no way I was sticking around watching balls cross the midfield stripe. Without doubt the best of the lot. Super. Cannavarro was beyond immense and worth "100 million a week"!

2010- Enjoyed it for the most part. The Final result galled me. The Dutch should have won that. But it reamains something I'll always look back on as "What could have been". I'm sure we all do.

2014- Brazilian stitch-up. Eugh.

[DeLorean]

Nah, 2010 by a country mile

I had 2006 in my head when I read this first for some reason. Damn years are flying by! Yeah 2010 wasn't great by any means, Uruguay Ghana was possibly the stand out game for me. I was delighted with the end result though... Spain beating that pretty ugly Dutch team.

2006 was my favourite World Cup, by a mile. I was a bit young for Italia '90 so I'm comparing it to all that went after. I don't know how it gets so much stick. The group stages weren't much to write home about but the knock out rounds were brilliant. The controversial Italian win against Australia (nothing controversial about it in my opinion but that's for another day).

France finding their long lost form out of nowhere to beat Spain and Brazil (spectacularly with Zidane on another planet, that's really what the WC is about, the greats playing their best football). The England Portugal quarter final with the whole Rooney-Ronaldo excitement and the inevitable penalty shoot-out. Germany v Argentina was a cracking game also in this round with the Argentines blowing it tactically after going ahead.

One of the best games I have seen was the semi final between Italy and Germany... Fabio Grosso's 'Tardelli-like' celebration and Del Piero's insurance goal from Gilardino's ridiculous pass were only secondary compared to Cannavaro's performance at the back. More epic drama and controversy in the final with the whole Materazzi - Zidane incident.

I loved that Italian team anyway so I'm probably a bit biased but it really was a great story. The whole bribes controversy surrounding their domestic club games was after coming to light big time. Nesta got injured in their third group game against the Czechs so it looked pretty unlikely they were going to go on and win the tournament, without the famous Cannavaro-Nesta partnership in operation. Materazzi came on for Nesta and scored the opening goal ten minutes later. He went on to get sent off against Australia, score the equaliser in the final, get Zidane sent off and score a penalty in the shoot-out. Amazing the way things can work out.

The Grosso story is even better - An unintentional hero : Fabio Grosso (http://www.soccernewsday.com/world/a/494/an-unintentional-hero-fabio-grosso)

[bennocelt]

Must have missed Italia 90 so.

Brazil 5-2 Costa Rica in 2002 had more excitement than the entire of Italia 90.

I seen it, great defenses! :D

[BonnieShels]

I had 2006 in my head when I read this first for some reason. Damn years are flying by! Yeah 2010 wasn't great by any means, Uruguay Ghana was possibly the stand out game for me. I was delighted with the end result though... Spain beating that pretty ugly Dutch team.

2010 was my favourite World Cup, by a mile. I was a bit young for Italia '90 so I'm comparing it to all that went after. I don't know how it gets so much stick. The group stages weren't much to write home about but the knock out rounds were brilliant. The controversial Italian win against Australia (nothing controversial about it in my opinion but that's for another day).

France finding their long lost form out of nowhere to beat Spain and Brazil (spectacularly with Zidane on another planet, that's really what the WC is about, the greats playing their best football). The England Portugal quarter final with the whole Rooney-Ronaldo excitement and the inevitable penalty shoot-out. Germany v Argentina was a cracking game also in this round with the Argentines blowing it tactically after going ahead.

One of the best games I have seen was the semi final between Italy and Germany... Fabio Grosso's 'Tardelli-like' celebration and Del Piero's insurance goal from Gilardino's ridiculous pass were only secondary compared to Cannavaro's performance at the back. More epic drama and controversy in the final with the whole Materazzi - Zidane incident.

I loved that Italian team anyway so I'm probably a bit biased but it really was a great story. The whole bribes controversy surrounding their domestic club games was after coming to light big time. Nesta got injured in their third group game against the Czechs so it looked pretty unlikely they were going to go on and win the tournament, without the famous Cannavaro-Nesta partnership in operation. Materazzi came on Nesta and scored the opening goal ten minutes later. He went on to get sent off against Australia, score the equaliser in the final, get Zidane sent off and score a penalty in the shoot-out. Amazing the way things can work out.

The Grosso story is even better - An unintentional hero : Fabio Grosso (http://www.soccernewsday.com/world/a/494/an-unintentional-hero-fabio-grosso)

That all sounds suspiciously like 2006 to me.

Everything else was spot on.

And I was Italian for that month. :)

Watching them knock out Oz as well was sweet too.

[Spudulika]

That all sounds suspiciously like 2006 to me.

Everything else was spot on.

And I was Italian for that month. :)

Watching them cheat Oz as well was depressing too.

Fixed that.

[BonnieShels]

The Grosso story is even better - An unintentional hero : Fabio Grosso (http://www.soccernewsday.com/world/a/494/an-unintentional-hero-fabio-grosso)

Great read. Got goosebumps thinking about those games. Wonderful tournament.

[DeLorean]

That all sounds suspiciously like 2006 to me.

Everything else was spot on.

I keep thinking 2010 when I remember that WC... it just doesn't seem like 7 years ago!

[geysir]

I have enjoyed this trip down memory lane in a thread about Euro 2016. As for Estonia, I noticed they drew 2-2 at home with the Netherlands in a World Cup qualifier this month. I don't think we've ever got the credit that was due for going there and thumping them in what was the biggest game in their history.

Luck ? Strangely most good managers are lucky. Can't quite understand that but it's true. Mind you whatever luck Trap had ran out when we drew 3 of the best teams in the world in our group at Euro 2012 but that seems to be overlooked(lucked).
There's little comparison with the quality of the 2012 opposition, Spain, Italy and Croatia and what we got at WC2002 Germany, Cameroon and Saudi A. Even a Trap managed team probably would have got us to the last 16 in 2002.

But there's no denying that we were the 'least prepared to meet the challenge' minnow team at the 2012 Finals. There was just no chance with our style/approach that we would ask some questions of our opponents, unlike similar standard teams, Denmark and Sweden in their groups.

[DannyInvincible]

And maybe the Dutch should have beaten us in Dublin, but they didn't.

I didn't express an opinion on that game. And I'm not sure why you did given your seemingly-irritated follow-up... :confused:


Can't see what this has to do with future campaigns.

No need to partake in or prolong the discussion with an historical retort yourself if you've an issue with delving into the past.

Anyway, what's the harm? People look towards and prepare for the future by reviewing and learning from the past. The frivolous, or perhaps superstitious, amongst us seem to be of the belief that we might be owed some future slice of either good or bad luck based on past fortune. I don't tend to take such talk seriously. When Fixer says Kilbane "should have" scored in Amsterdam, as if to suggest a stroke of bad luck had its say as he ran clean through on goal with just Van der Sar to beat before dragging his scuffed effort wide of the post, I can't agree. We'd love him to have scored, sure, but why should he have? If he should have, why didn't he? It's just fantasy-talk. He wasn't trying to miss on purpose. He lacked not "luck", but composure and ability in the circumstances. A better finisher would have scored.

[Stuttgart88]

He should have scored because he was well capable of scoring from that position. He made a mess of it. There was no bad luck element.

[Fixer82]

When Fixer says Kilbane "should have" scored in Amsterdam, as if to suggest a stroke of bad luck had its say as he ran clean through on goal with just Van der Sar to beat before dragging his scuffed effort wide of the post, I can't agree. We'd love him to have scored, sure, but why should he have? If he should have, why didn't he? It's just fantasy-talk. He wasn't trying to miss on purpose. He lacked not "luck", but composure and ability in the circumstances. A better finisher would have scored.

On another day he would have scored. And on another day, that shot wouldnt have taken a nasty deflection and looped over Kelly.
So I don't think it was luck that saw us through that qualifying campaign. We played well and managed to get past the smaller nations professionally and without much hassle really.

In the second play-off game in Iran I remember Ali Daei having an effort in the first half and then a couple of good saves in the second half. Connolly also hit the side netting. So Iran didn't choke. We stood up and showed our resolve. And we deserved it.

[DeLorean]

"There were people running on to the pitch hugging each other.... what are ye hugging each other for?!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVV-f9LoSLw

[DannyInvincible]

On another day he would have scored. And on another day, that shot wouldnt have taken a nasty deflection and looped over Kelly.
So I don't think it was luck that saw us through that qualifying campaign. We played well and managed to get past the smaller nations professionally and without much hassle really.

In the second play-off game in Iran I remember Ali Daei having an effort in the first half and then a couple of good saves in the second half. Connolly also hit the side netting. So Iran didn't choke. We stood up and showed our resolve. And we deserved it.

The fact remains that Kilbane bottled it. Whether nerves got to him at that precise moment, who's to know? He may have scored the chance if it were at home and against inferior opposition, but that's ultimately irrelevant. The shot for the second goal may never have come in had we been better organised and collectively positioned to prevent it. It was typical of our throwing away of games late on. Nevertheless, we did deserve qualification; not doubting that at all.

[Junior]

Just watched the highlights there again. A long time since Ive seen them. We did play some lovely stuff that night and Killer showng his pace and swinging in a couple of left foot beauts.

[OwlsFan]

"There were people running on to the pitch hugging each other.... what are ye hugging each other for?!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVV-f9LoSLw

Robbie scoring against the Dutch? I thought he doesn't score against any of the top teams!

[ifk101]

Robbie scoring against the Dutch? I thought he doesn't score against any of the top teams!

The measure of a "top team" is whether Robbie Keane scored against them or not.

[Charlie Darwin]

Robbie scoring against the Dutch? I thought he doesn't score against any of the top teams!
The Dutch weren't a top team then. Sure they didn't even qualify for the World Cup that year!

[Stuttgart88]

It's a bit like the original Catch 22: he doesn't score against top teams and anyone he scores against can't be a top team.

[geysir]

How about, they were not allowed to be a top team that campaign because Robbie Keane scored against them.

[DannyInvincible]

Even if Robbie had never scored consistently against the top sides of the international game (he has, of course), it's not as if any of our other strikers through history have. He's the best striker we've ever had by a long chalk and a living Irish footballing legend.

[DeLorean]

Suppose these were his biggest goals (in terms of scoring against 'top' sides)...


Yugoslavia (H) Euro Qual 2-1 (Yugoslavia went on to top the group and reach the quarter finals of Euro 2000 where they lost 6-1 to Holland).

Turkey (H) Euro Qual Playoff 1-1 (Turkey went through on away goals rule and reached the quarter finals of Euro 2000)

Holland (A) WC Qual 2-2 (Holland had just reached the semi finals of Euro 2000 and should really have made the final)

Germany (N) WCQ 1-1 (Germany went on to reach the final, Brazil's Ronaldo the only other player to score against them in the tournament)

Spain (N) WC (High pressure penalty, Spain went on to lose quarter final)

Italy (A) WCQ 1-1 (Yet another late equaliser, this time against the World Champions)

France (A) WCQ Playoff 1-1 (Tied up the playoff against the previous World Cup runners-up)

Russia (H) Euro Qual 2-3 (A penalty which he won himself, Russia went on to top the group and flopped at tournament)


Important goals but probably not classed as 'top' opponents...

Iran (H) 2-0 (WC Playoff)
Saudi Arabia (N) 3-0 (WC)
Israel (H) 2-2 (WCQ)
Estonia (A) x2 4-0 (Euro Qual Playoff)
Sweden (H) 1-2 (WCQ)

Could add a load of goals scored against minnows which were important, anybody from Macedonia's level downwards (who I wouldn't consider minnows at all!)


Decent opposition but only friendlies....

Czech Rep x2
Russia
Denmark x3
Holland
Croatia
Sweden
Colombia
Norway


That's 25 goals accounted for. Still enough to make him our highest scorer. He has scored 29 non-friendly goals, 32 if you include Carling Nations Cup.


We're seriously going to struggle for goals without him.

[Stuttgart88]

I enjoyed this article by Miguel Delaney today. This is probably the best thread for it.

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/soccer/no-limits-in-a-bold-new-era-245719.html

No limits in a bold new era
Wednesday, October 09, 2013

By Miguel Delaney


In Iceland, they’re suddenly attempting to play down expectations.

“We’re a small country, with just 320,000 inhabitants,” Cardiff City’s Aron Gunnarson recently explained. “We need to be realistic.”

The exact reality, however, is that a nation of that size currently sits in second place in Group E, having last month claimed a 4-4 draw away to leaders Switzerland. It’s quite a transformation, given that Iceland were ranked 131st in the world just over 16 months ago.

That remarkable rise reflects something of an increasing mobility in international football. Because, as the 2014 World Cup qualification campaign starts to properly close out this weekend, it’s worth considering how unexpectedly open it all is.

Iceland are directly competing with: Slovenia, who are themselves the smallest European country to have ever reached a World Cup; Norway, who are aiming for their first qualification in 14 years; and Albania, who are hoping for their first qualification ever.

Bosnia-Herzegovina find themselves in the same mindset as the Albanians, if not quite the same position given how they lead Group G, while Hungary are looking to end a generation of failure to make a first tournament since 1986.

In other words, there is a true sense of freshness and variety about this campaign. That is best represented by the Belgians, who are not just looking to end their own 12-year absence from the top level, but also to topple many of the teams that dominate. Like their play, it all feels so vibrant.

Even if many of the struggling major nations reassert their strength this week, the persistent feeling is international football no longer has any actual baseline quality. It has never been less fixed. There has never been so much fluidity to the ability of the countries.

Of course, the articles about how the international game has fallen behind the Champions League since 2000 have long been written. While the major tournaments used to be the barometer for the entire game, they are now just barometers for how far Uefa’s elite event is ahead of virtually everything else.

No individual nation can match the concentration of utter quality the modern super-clubs enjoy. It was something Jose Mourinho argued on Friday as he noted even Belgium’s reliance on players like Kevin De Bruyne. “Normally national teams don’t have as many options as big clubs have. If you go from team to national team, it looks like Brazil and Germany have dozens and dozens and dozens of good players. And all the other countries are struggling for quality players and their options are limited.”

The Spanish media that ultimately developed such a poor relationship with Mourinho might dispute that one too, but there is a legitimate point there.

If Euro 2004 set the template for how mid-tier teams like Greece could compensate for their flaws, and Euro 2008 illustrated how nations such as Spain had managed to distil all of their qualities, it was Euro 2012 that pointed to a more winding middle path between these two extremes.

After a decade of generally dull tournaments where only a few teams attempted something more expansive — of which the 2010 World Cup was a nadir — the greater attacking openness in Poland and Ukraine appeared to predict this current situation in the European qualifiers.

It was also something that perhaps only exaggerated the issues at the end of Giovanni Trapattoni’s era.

While Ireland were rigidly trying to stand their ground, the rest of Europe has been swirling about rather chaotically. The majority of team cycles don’t even last the traditional length of four years. Within two, status can drastically change. You only have to look at how Croatia have wavered between 2006 and now, going from contenders to failing to qualify for 2010.

Short-term alterations seem to have a disproportionately large effect.

Part of the issue is undeniably the utter lack of countries looking to the long term. If you survey the world game, Spain and Germany are the only two federations to have undertaken radical overhauls of their infrastructures in the last two decades, making it no coincidence they lead the way with football to rival the greatest club sides.

Holland have also kept steady while Belgium consulted such nations in altering their own coaching. Even some in Brussels, however, point to a certain amount of basic luck in gathering a generation as good as one that features Eden Hazard and Christian Benteke.

Harry Redknapp also offered a telling point amid the more self-serving revelations of his recent autobiography extracts.

“You’re watching a tournament thinking, ‘Hang on, he was at Blackburn — he was useless,’ or ‘That bloke couldn’t get in West Ham’s team’.”

The point here is not some reductive view that only success in the Premier League matters. It is so many countries reflect the staggered quality of international football as a whole. Qualifying nations are often very incomplete.

Ireland saw this first-hand in the last double-header. A player of Zlatan Ibrahimovic’s admitted quality combined for the win with Anders Svensson — a 37-year-old who has spent the last eight years back in Sweden.

On Friday, the Swedes’ own crunch fixture further illustrates the issue. Their patchwork side will meet one of these once-a-generation collections of young talent in Austria, to decide second place.

None of this is to give Ireland a pass for the failures in the country’s infrastructure. It is that, until the FAI make the changes that they must, relative success remains somewhat navigable with the right short-term changes.

It is no longer that international football is either good or bad. It is that, right up to the semi-finals of any tournament, you will see a lot of both. Beyond the very best, there is no longer a set standard. Expectations should be more fluid than ever.

[paul_oshea]

When i read that and think of all the eejits trying to downplay us all the time and that we are still not competing at the end of the campaign it really angers me.

especially the likes of murfinator and some of the older posters on here, if it can be done in countries like montengro, iceland, slovenia, boznia-herzegovina, belgium(granted they are a special case), there is no reason why a country with at least half of its players playing in the 1st or 2nd best league(yes better than spain as CD you were wrong just looking at real socidedad and the other spanish teams in europa league, swanseas 3-0 win) in the world should nto be competing to make all these major finals until the very last day at least, if not hte play-offs. Why are people so happy to live in/with mediocrity? I don't live my life that way and I don't think our team should be settling for it either, if you are happy to the average joe and be boring dont try and drag our national teams expectations down with you or impressing on others .


“You’re watching a tournament thinking, ‘Hang on, he was at Blackburn — he was useless,’ or ‘That bloke couldn’t get in West Ham’s team’.”

That's the main point for me, average players who can perform for their country, this co-relates to players who are better than average playing in the PL and we don't pick them or cant get the best out of them. We are in a far better position than a lot of other countries in face, but we are happy to settle for a lot less. Its so disappointing.


I hope decisions are made quicker from now in with regard to managers overstaying. IT has never worked out for us letting htem continue on when a couple of major results have gone awry.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's all cyclical, chief...
;)

[Stuttgart88]

When i read that and think of all the eejits trying to downplay us all the time and that we are still not competing at the end of the campaign it really angers me.

especially the likes of murfinator and some of the older posters on here, Leave me out of this.

Anyway, we haven't got the players.

[DeLorean]

I don't think anybody is really settling for this shambles of a campaign Paul. We're in the top two or in the running for qualification up until the end of the campaigns more often than not... certainly as often as most of those other countries you mentioned.


I suspect if we replaced Iceland in their group this time round we'd still be in with a shout as well.

Slovenia couldn't manage to finish ahead of Estonia in their last campaign... a team we were so "fortunate" to have met in the seeded playoffs.

Montenegro are pretty much out of contention in their group, barring something fairly radical.

Bosnia are looking good to be fair... of course you would probably have sacked their manager after conceding six to Portugal in the Euro playoffs.

[Charlie Darwin]

When i read that and think of all the eejits trying to downplay us all the time and that we are still not competing at the end of the campaign it really angers me.

especially the likes of murfinator and some of the older posters on here, if it can be done in countries like montengro, iceland, slovenia, boznia-herzegovina, belgium(granted they are a special case), there is no reason why a country with at least half of its players playing in the 1st or 2nd best league(yes better than spain as CD you were wrong just looking at real socidedad and the other spanish teams in europa league, swanseas 3-0 win) in the world should nto be competing to make all these major finals until the very last day at least, if not hte play-offs. Why are people so happy to live in/with mediocrity? I don't live my life that way and I don't think our team should be settling for it either, if you are happy to the average joe and be boring dont try and drag our national teams expectations down with you or impressing on others .



That's the main point for me, average players who can perform for their country, this co-relates to players who are better than average playing in the PL and we don't pick them or cant get the best out of them. We are in a far better position than a lot of other countries in face, but we are happy to settle for a lot less. Its so disappointing.


I hope decisions are made quicker from now in with regard to managers overstaying. IT has never worked out for us letting htem continue on when a couple of major results have gone awry.
Not sure why you're mentioning me here. You seem to reckon the Championship is better than La Liga or something and I appear to have offended you by saying otherwise at some point.

[Yard of Pace]

I think it's redundant to be comparing Ireland to other teams and how they're getting on. I'd wager that the majority of us haven't seen them play at all, know nothing of their coaches and all the other variables. Maybe Slovenia have their equivalent of Stan in charge. Maybe Montenegro got done by a fluky decision in a key game. Maybe a star player is quarreling with the manager. Etc. etc. You know what I'm getting at.

[Stuttgart88]

Montenegro are pretty much out of contention in their group, barring something fairly radical.Are you sure?

[Junior]

I don't think anybody is really settling for this shambles of a campaign Paul. We're in the top two or in the running for qualification up until the end of the campaigns more often than not... certainly as often as most of those other countries you mentioned.


I suspect if we replaced Iceland in their group this time round we'd still be in with a shout as well.

Slovenia couldn't manage to finish ahead of Estonia in their last campaign... a team we were so "fortunate" to have met in the seeded playoffs.

Montenegro are pretty much out of contention in their group, barring something fairly radical.

Bosnia are looking good to be fair... of course you would probably have sacked their manager after conceding six to Portugal in the Euro playoffs.

Thats pretty much what I was about to post. Paul, stop getting your knickers in a twist - it was a shocking campaign. We need to write it off and move on. More often than not we are in the mix, its always going to be difficult to win a group outright or even win a seeded playoff over two legs but we are usually up there as one of the sides in with a shout.

Older posters? Maybe just wiser......

[DeLorean]

Are you sure?

Well radical was probably a bit strong. They'll probably need to win at Wembley to get a playoff spot. They're in the mix in fairness (on further examination) but I'd be very surprised to see anything other than an England-Ukraine top 2, not necessarily in that order. What I was getting at is that I wouldn't be overly jealous of their recent past.

[geysir]

I don't think anybody is really settling for this shambles of a campaign Paul. We're in the top two or in the running for qualification up until the end of the campaigns more often than not... certainly as often as most of those other countries you mentioned.


I suspect if we replaced Iceland in their group this time round we'd still be in with a shout as well.

Slovenia couldn't manage to finish ahead of Estonia in their last campaign... a team we were so "fortunate" to have met in the seeded playoffs.

Montenegro are pretty much out of contention in their group, barring something fairly radical.

Bosnia are looking good to be fair... of course you would probably have sacked their manager after conceding six to Portugal in the Euro playoffs.
I think it has to be accepted that no matter what qual group we were in for WC 2014, we would not have done much better. A little better perhaps but not much. Our style of play had already run its course towards redundancy before these qualifiers.

[paul_oshea]

Not sure why you're mentioning me here. You seem to reckon the Championship is better than La Liga or something and I appear to have offended you by saying otherwise at some point.

No the premiership.

I meant that the premiership is in the top 2 if not the top league in the world.

[paul_oshea]

Thats pretty much what I was about to post. Paul, stop getting your knickers in a twist - it was a shocking campaign. We need to write it off and move on. More often than not we are in the mix, its always going to be difficult to win a group outright or even win a seeded playoff over two legs but we are usually up there as one of the sides in with a shout.

Older posters? Maybe just wiser......


I wish it was, unfortunately like where I work they don't offer much experience either :)

At the end of the day people are happy with things to go on to the detriment of qualification or even improvement(whether it be how we play or where we finish or results), thinking experience or something else will see us through when it doesn't or that someone almost has a divine right to go right until its too late.

[Charlie Darwin]

No the premiership.

I meant that the premiership is in the top 2 if not the top league in the world.
It's in the top three. Not sure what relevance this has to anything though.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness to Paul I think he was taking a swipe at those who accept our fate because "we don't have the players" or the occasional wise owl who prefers the devil he knows, despite knowing his faults, and who thinks there's no merit in discussing anything other than plain old 442 and hoofball.

[geysir]

Why do want to be fair to Paul?
Let him take the punches, he can 'man-up' can't he?

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not sure. He challenged me to a game of badminton last week.

[geysir]

Understood.

[paul_oshea]

Table-tennis tomorrow stutts if you are up for it.

I have a good feeling about Friday.

CD you said it was the third behind bundesliga and Spain.flavour of the month with posters on here regards the leagues but that's what you said. You added something about mid table Spanish beating mid table premiership I doubted it and at the time it was possible to prove.I think Swansea winning 3-0 refutes your assertion.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It could be worse after the next time round.
Just seen this in some Facebook group.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/fotboll/landslagsfotboll/article17626183.ab

As the original poster says...
Sorry its in Swedish, but couldn't find an English source for this. It basically lays out a proposal already on the table at UEFA for a UEFA Nations League, which would replace the Euro's. This would comprise of 9 leagues, each spanning over 2 years, with relegation and promotion at the end of each 'season'.

To put it into perspective, these would be the leagues (according to current rankings)

Division 1: Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy, England, Portugal
Division 2: Russia, Greece, Croatia, Sweden, France, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Division 3: Ukraine, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Hungary, Czech Republic
Division 4: Ireland, Serbia, Norway, Slovakia, Turkey, Israel
Division 5: Slovenia, Austria, Romania, Montenegro, Poland, Finland
Division 6: Scotland, Armenia, Bulgaria, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus
Division 7: Wales, Northern Ireland, Albania, Iceland, Lithuania, Macedonia
Division 8: Georgia, Moldavia, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Kazakhstan
Division 9: Liechtenstein, Faroe Islands, Malta, Andorra, San Marino, Gibraltar

To me, this would be an absolute travesty! I've heard people arguing that countries losing 7-0 to Germany shouldn't be in the same competition as them, and it would be more fair to put similar teams together. In my opinion this is bull****. Yes, smaller teams will get the occasional thrashing and even be completely outplayed for the whole qualifying, but you've seen many countries rise from those lows to actually challenge the big boys.

Putting the smaller nations in these leagues would make it impossible for a team like Iceland, Armenia and even Poland to ever 'win' the European Championships. Yes you'd get the occasional team rising through the ranks, but don't forget; these competitions would take 2 years to finish. Therefore it would take Iceland 12 years to 'sky rocket' into the Premier League (as I'm sure it'll develop into).

Now of course this hasn't been passed, and many stupid plans have been denied through the years, but I am genuinely afraid that something like this will become a reality in the coming decades.

Sorry for this insane post, but I need to hear that people agree with me (or at least argue with those who don't) to put my mind in some rest at least...
http://www.facebook.com/TryggviK?hc_location=stream

[Crosby87]

That will never come to fruiton. It's so stupid.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Morgan-Freeman-shocked.gif (http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Morgan-Freeman-shocked.gif)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, you're probably right...
We'll see in seven years time, perhaps?

[NeverFeltBetter]

What a cast-iron source.