European Qualifying 2013.

[White Horse]

Why would Drogheda want anyone thinking they're associated with Oriel? Maybe Mick Cooke's first rule for the game was "it needs to be on grass".

Really is hilarious how annoyed some Dundalk posters are about this. Even feigning that they're posting out of concern for Drogheda's crowd.


Still smarting over been beaten twice by Dundalk this season?

Even going so far as to feign concern when fans of two Louth teams debate whether they should play their home matches in Louth.

[Ezeikial]

Why would Drogheda want anyone thinking they're associated with Oriel? Maybe Mick Cooke's first rule for the game was "it needs to be on grass".

Really is hilarious how annoyed some Dundalk posters are about this. Even feigning that they're posting out of concern for Drogheda's crowd.


I certainly don't give a flying f**t where Drogheda play their Euro games (even if it is obvious that they would get more paying punters in the gate if they played it in Louth) .

It is comforting though, to learn how much you enjoy this thread - it's great craic that you even feign your own hilarity about it!

[Mr A]

Dundalk fans clearly don't care where Drogheda play their game. You can tell because they've made so few posts about it.

[MeathDrog]

Incidentally, what's a f**t?

[oriel]

Would you lot ever devolve? I don't recall this clamor when they were playing at Dalymount.

?

Oriel Park was not upgraded at that time, but since has and like it or not it still carries a uefa certificate for playing in two rounds of europe, which we made use of in 2010. I have a friend who works for LMFM, always careful to be neutral when talking football in the region, which is fair enough as the station covers both sides, his line summed it up 'its a real pity for the county that they saw the need to move it to the far side of Dublin instead of keeping it in the county'

My parting message on the pre euro stage, and certainly no hidden agenda from me, I wish all our sides the best of luck in Europe this season.

[bullit]

Dundalk fans clearly don't care where Drogheda play their game. You can tell because they've made so few posts about it.

Meh.
Some do i guess.Most don't give a flying f**t ;)

[MiniMourinho]

Oriel Park was not upgraded at that time, but since has and like it or not it still carries a uefa certificate for playing in two rounds of europe, which we made use of in 2010. I have a friend who works for LMFM, always careful to be neutral when talking football in the region, which is fair enough as the station covers both sides, his line summed it up 'its a real pity for the county that they saw the need to move it to the far side of Dublin instead of keeping it in the county'

My parting message on the pre euro stage, and certainly no hidden agenda from me, I wish all our sides the best of luck in Europe this season.

Oh well then if someone from the most noble LMFM said that, we must pay heed! I didn't think Dundalk fans were so obsessed.

[Dodge]

It is comforting though, to learn how much you enjoy this thread - it's great craic that you even feign your own hilarity about it!

No, I genuinely think some of the blowhards here are hilarious

[Spudulika]

Okay, summing it up. Drogs will play in Tallaght, that's that. If we start talking about "county pride" then we're looking at the GAA model, if we're looking at the GAA model then we have to tell the FAI to shape up and follow Croker in how to run the game. However as has been proved time and again, in Ireland and elsewhere, there is no place for sentiment in football, there were Dundalk fans who were laughing when Drogs were in trouble a couple of years ago, and vice versa in the funfest in Oriel last year. A Roves friend of mine was genuine in hoping that Shels went bust some years ago. However as LOI followers we want it all ways. We want big friendlies, but only if it means our teams are involved. We want better coverage yet complain at every little point in the coverage. We complain about lack of supporters yet denigrate barstoolers and claim they're not real fans. We want it every way and don't.

I hope all the Irish teams do well, without exception. I hope Irish sports fans get out and buy tickets and follow the fortunes. If one club can go on a run it'll be great. So roll on next week!

[dong]

Okay, summing it up. Drogs will play in Tallaght, that's that. If we start talking about "county pride" then we're looking at the GAA model, if we're looking at the GAA model then we have to tell the FAI to shape up and follow Croker in how to run the game. However as has been proved time and again, in Ireland and elsewhere, there is no place for sentiment in football, there were Dundalk fans who were laughing when Drogs were in trouble a couple of years ago, and vice versa in the funfest in Oriel last year. A Roves friend of mine was genuine in hoping that Shels went bust some years ago. However as LOI followers we want it all ways. We want big friendlies, but only if it means our teams are involved. We want better coverage yet complain at every little point in the coverage. We complain about lack of supporters yet denigrate barstoolers and claim they're not real fans. We want it every way and don't.

I hope all the Irish teams do well, without exception. I hope Irish sports fans get out and buy tickets and follow the fortunes. If one club can go on a run it'll be great. So roll on next week!

Such a load of ring.

1. Who wants "big friendlies"? I know I certainly don't.
2. People criticise the coverage because it is often very poor.
3. Nobody ever said boo to any barstooler who decided to go along to a game.

[Dodge]

However as LOI followers we want it all ways. We want big friendlies, but only if it means our teams are involved. We want better coverage yet complain at every little point in the coverage. We complain about lack of supporters yet denigrate barstoolers and claim they're not real fans. We want it every way and don't.

I think you'll find there isn't a unified LOI fan opinion on anything. Some like friendles, some hate them. Some want more TV coverage, some want less live TV games. There's about 10,000 people who attend our games every week and we all have our own thoughts on different issues. Stop trying to make out its otherwise

[Dalymountrower]

I think you'll find there isn't a unified LOI fan opinion on anything. Some like friendles, some hate them. Some want more TV coverage, some want less live TV games. There's about 10,000 people who attend our games every week and we all have our own thoughts on different issues. Stop trying to make out its otherwise

I disagree.

[oriel]

I think you'll find there isn't a unified LOI fan opinion on anything. Some like friendles, some hate them. Some want more TV coverage, some want less live TV games. There's about 10,000 people who attend our games every week and we all have our own thoughts on different issues. Stop trying to make out its otherwise

Well the Pats figures are certainly not helping, just over 1,000 again tonight, why are they so low for such a good side?

Also I think the 10k figure is a bit low, some weeks maybe, but for a lot of others they can get up to15k, still nothing to write home about.

[Straightstory]

We complain about lack of supporters yet denigrate barstoolers and claim they're not real fans.

By using the word 'yet', you seem to think there's a contradiction in these two viewpoints. There clearly isn't. Barstoolers, unless I've failed to understand the definition since I fist came across it here a few years ago, are clearly not 'real fans'; ie. LOI supporters. They watch Premiership football on television and either take no interest in, or are actively hostile to, their local teams. (From the viewpoint of supporters of Irish club football I would say their 'denigration' is justified).

[Spudulika]

By using the word 'yet', you seem to think there's a contradiction in these two viewpoints. There clearly isn't. Barstoolers, unless I've failed to understand the definition since I fist came across it here a few years ago, are clearly not 'real fans'; ie. LOI supporters. They watch Premiership football on television and either take no interest in, or are actively hostile to, their local teams. (From the viewpoint of supporters of Irish club football I would say their 'denigration' is justified).

Why? Why should they be denigrated because they don't want to join the little circle of love we have in the LOI? In a sense it's all down to perception, the sky leagues look all lovely and shiny, the LOI doesn't do itself any justice, meanwhile the meeja lead little dances of war each time they get an order from on high against the FAI. Brstoolers turned out in force when Shels played Deportivo and even Hajduk, they can be taught to appreciate the finer points of live football, but I just don't see too many of them feeling comfortable at LOI grounds.

[Charlie Darwin]

But it's nobody's job to make them feel comfortable.

[TheBoss]

The way I see it is simple.

I like to compare it to the Matrix. The LOI is what football really is and watching the EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga etc on TV is the false illusionary world. LOI fans can offer them the choice of which pill they want to take but its up to them. If they choose not to, thats their choice, no need to slag them off for it, you offered them an alternative and they declined it.

We cant go round in life insulting others when we do not share a common thing whether it be LOI or even the kind of food you like.

"He doesn't like Oranges, which I do, but likes Orange Juice, ERRRR". "Oranges are real, the genuine thing but Orange Juice is fake and bad for you."



In this instance, like the one before, we can advise people that Oranges are cheaper and more healthier but if they continue to drink Orange Juice, what can we do to stop them, nothing.

I know there is an element that constantly insult the LOI (without actually going to a game) for their justification in following the EPL, these kinds of people are just deluded. No matter what you say, they will never change their mind even if you had the most convincing proof to the contrary and also, they were up brought with the EPL, so the EPL is only football they know and trust and find it extremely hard to shake it off.

Its very similar also to Atheists trying to convince people of faith that religion is 'this, that and other'. It is up the person of faith to decide.

[Spudulika]

CD, I agree, though why the slagging? Because they prefer to sit in a pub watching a match or travelling to stand in Richmond Park watching quality football with 1,000 others? It's simply their choice not to do so.

Bennocelt, you might not agree with what I wrote, but why should it be wrong to NOT run down others who are not interested in attending local matches? It's the attitude that prevails amongst too many LOI followers that they're somehow real fans when it's all a matter of perception.

Ultimately we all know where football stands in Ireland and we need to be honest about it. The perception of football and LOI in Ireland is one of a sport full of gurriers. While the sport crept into areas like Castleknock and such in the 1980's, that was more down to the success of the national team and the attraction of the sport for kids - it was not down to a blueprint for development from the FAI (unless I've completely missed it).

So the LOI will continue to suffer from this, largely, misconception and anyone interested in football will look at the sky leagues or the in vogue ones from the continent, and turn up the odd time for glamour ties involving LOI sides, glamour friendlies involving foreign sides and the Irish team when they're not totally awful

[Charlie Darwin]

CD, I agree, though why the slagging? Because they prefer to sit in a pub watching a match or travelling to stand in Richmond Park watching quality football with 1,000 others? It's simply their choice not to do so.
Because people like slagging people? It goes the other way too. The difficult for me is that I would assume most barstoolers would consider themselves patriots and Ireland fans, yet they do nothing to help the game grow here and actively conspire against it in many cases. I think people are entitled to point out hypocrisy where they see it.


Ultimately we all know where football stands in Ireland and we need to be honest about it. The perception of football and LOI in Ireland is one of a sport full of gurriers. While the sport crept into areas like Castleknock and such in the 1980's, that was more down to the success of the national team and the attraction of the sport for kids - it was not down to a blueprint for development from the FAI (unless I've completely missed it).
What?

[ArdeeBhoy]

By using the word 'yet', you seem to think there's a contradiction in these two viewpoints. There clearly isn't. Barstoolers, unless I've failed to understand the definition since I fist came across it here a few years ago, are clearly not 'real fans'; ie. LOI supporters. They watch Premiership football on television and either take no interest in, or are actively hostile to, their local teams. (From the viewpoint of supporters of Irish club football I would say their 'denigration' is justified).

Appreciate there's many places where this is the case, but large parts of Ireland are a long way geographically from any LOI/IL side...
So people will ​take the easy option.

[Spudulika]

Because people like slagging people? It goes the other way too. The difficult for me is that I would assume most barstoolers would consider themselves patriots and Ireland fans, yet they do nothing to help the game grow here and actively conspire against it in many cases. I think people are entitled to point out hypocrisy where they see And people are entitled to follow teams and pursuits they want and not be ridiculed as non-fans (or at least non-real football fans). I do agree about the hypocrisy, but it cuts both ways. Many are involved at Junior or youth level with clubs, but have no reason or push to be attached to a senior side.


What?CD, it's the prevailing and unfair attitude of the majority of the country - am I lying? Add to that the tales of mismanagement that splash across the meeja and any sympathy for LOI football disintegrates. I find it all extremely unfair, though what can be done?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Because people like slagging people? It goes the other way too. The difficult for me is that I would assume most barstoolers would consider themselves patriots and Ireland fans, yet they do nothing to help the game grow here and actively conspire against it in many cases. I think people are entitled to point out hypocrisy where they see it.
Know many people who would be counted as 'barstoolers';whilst accepting they know less about the game, none of them are 'conspiring' v.the LOI.
Unless you count their apathy...

And some LOI fans I know would sympathise with that even, especially when their teams are doing poorly as to why they'd bother. Or revel in the fact they're part of an 'exclusive' club of around 10 thousand people or so...

[Charlie Darwin]

And people are entitled to follow teams and pursuits they want and not be ridiculed as non-fans (or at least non-real football fans). I do agree about the hypocrisy, but it cuts both ways. Many are involved at Junior or youth level with clubs, but have no reason or push to be attached to a senior side.
I'm not entirely sure why they're entitled to not be ridiculed. I know there are many who are involved with youth clubs, but then again the schoolboy game is the biggest supporter of English soccer going. There is a whole separate argument about whether youth clubs have the players' and the game's best interest at heart.


CD, it's the prevailing and unfair attitude of the majority of the country - am I lying? Add to that the tales of mismanagement that splash across the meeja and any sympathy for LOI football disintegrates. I find it all extremely unfair, though what can be done?
I don't think there is a prevailing attitude towards the LOI in the country. I think a lot of self-professed football fans would be surprised to learn their is a League of Ireland. In fact, I think some people would be surprised to find out there are football games that aren't on Sky.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, not the people I know from Ireland games. They'd all be aware of local soccer.
Some of them would choose not to go in the main, whilst others live miles from any LOI club, even presuming they were interested consistently.

As for schoolboy clubs, often they will see it as being in the best interests of their players to potentially get them a more lucrative contract in Britain with the LOI as a 'fallback' ​if they didn't realise this.

[Charlie Darwin]

People at Ireland games are a fairly unrepresentative sample.

And I'm sure schoolboy clubs do see a lucrative contract in the UK as the player's best interest, and the transfer fee in their own best interest. The fact that the majority of players who don't make it in the UK aren't up to making it in the LOI either negates the 'fallback' option.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What so the opinions of Irish soccer fans now don't count? Even the many who do go to LOI games...
Hmm.

[Charlie Darwin]

No, read it again, carefully. People who go to Ireland games tend to be more involved with the game than those who don't. Those who go to games are a very small proportion of people who follow the game. Therefore, the people you speak to at games are not a representative sample of the country as a whole.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except you/I didn't say that.

Not that I'd agree. Who else besides Ireland soccer/LOI fans are active in supporting the sport domestically?
Perhaps a couple of thousand people who follow grass-roots stuff...

Am excluding the 'barstoolers' on the pretext, they don't 'matter' as their views are not worth listening to...

[nigel-harps1954]

Appreciate there's many places where this is the case, but large parts of Ireland are a long way geographically from any LOI/IL side...
So people will ​take the easy option.

I don't accept that as an argument really.

There's 20,000 people in Letterkenny for example. It's around 20km from Ballybofey. Of the average 600-ish at a Finn Harps game, maybe about 250 of those travel from Letterkenny direction. If Harps are going very well, that number will easily triple.

If those people can all go, what's to stop another 1,000 Letterkenny people from going, those who pack themselves into bars each Saturday/Sunday to watch Sky Sports and call themselves massive football fans?

Likewise, Ardee is roughly the same distance from both Dundalk and Drogheda. What's to stop someone like yourself travelling in and supporting those teams?

What's to stop a crowd from Ennis going to Limerick?

I understand there are areas such as west Mayo, Kerry, Carlow, Tipperary, and such that are generally just too far from grounds, and it's only disappointing the likes of Tralee Dynamos didn't get in on that basis. But there are far too many excuses out there.

I have a friend from Mullingar, who used to go into Longford from time to time when they were in the Premier and was in Lansdowne when they won the FAI cup, but now won't go near the ground. Cites it was "it's too far to travel", he'd much rather the convenience of going to the pub to watch his beloved Man Utd play.
I don't accept that excuse.

Look at some of the poorer supported teams and you'll see, most of them are either in, or right beside a large urban centre. There's no excuse for it.

Longford - 10,000 people - avg att 354
Athlone - 20,000 - avg att 456
Mervue - 75,000 (Galway city) - Avg att 256 (granted we know the problems that exist)
Bray - 32,000 - Avg att 750
Drogheda - 30,000 - Avg att 915
Cobh - 10,000 - avg att 511


That's just the tip of the iceberg. Dublin with over 1,000,000 people should be seeing at least 4,000 people at each of the grounds, but that's a more complicated issue. There's an average of close to 7,500 people between the 5 Dublin teams, which simply isn't good enough in a city of it's size.

Could go on all day on the matter, but there's no point really. It's the way the League is, and we'll just have to accept that we're living in the shadow of the English Leagues. The FAI are never going to do anything to promote their own league. Clubs struggle here because of a lack of interest from the public, and our own association don't care.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair points all, but given the relative derision towards even fans of the national team, whose ticket monies in theory are filtering down to the grassroots and :rolleyes: even 'barstoolers' when they do take a passing interest, it's hard to see how the national league can achieve much credibility with a wider audience.

And that's even before you factor in that the product' is not exactly of the highest quality. Especially when you often compare to games on TV.

Wish the LOI well, but the attitude of some of its fans is as unhelpful as the inertia of the FAI in promoting the domestic league.

[nigel-harps1954]

Fair points all, but given the relative derision towards even fans of the national team, whose ticket monies in theory are filtering down to the grassroots and :rolleyes: even 'barstoolers' when they do take a passing interest, it's hard to see how the national league can achieve much credibility with a wider audience.

And that's even before you factor in that the product' is not exactly of the highest quality. Especially when you often compare to games on TV.

Wish the LOI well, but the attitude of some of its fans is as unhelpful as the inertia of the FAI in promoting the domestic league.


It's another excuse I don't buy, the quality is plenty good. In comparison to English Premier League, maybe not. Compare it to Scottish Leagues, it's just as good. Look at some of the European results of recent years and it's enough to tell you, Irish clubs are well able to challenge top clubs and give them a run.

As for money from the national side..it's very simple that each and every penny the FAI gets has to go one of three ways. Paying off stadium debt, paying Mr. Delaneys substantial wages, and paying the wages of the management team of Trap and Tardelli et all.

The prize money in the league is laughable. It (allegedly) costs more to enter into the League of Ireland than it does to finish outside the top two in the First Division. Is it any wonder there's only 8 teams?

If even there was only another €250,000 added to the prize pot, and I mean only €250,000, which in world football these days is absolute pittance, we'd see a much healthier league in my opinion, i.e we wouldn't have clubs going out of business every year.

There are some very easy solutions for the League of Ireland, but it's very tough when you have a CEO who believes his own words that he "only really gets judged on the national team performance", said himself during an interview with Sky Sports.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, you must have been watching a lot of different games to me and LOI people met via the Ireland scene.

The quality has improved, but overall, the top flight generally is not the same as the SPL and about Div.3 in England, though better than the domestic leagues in the North and Cymru.

[nigel-harps1954]

Hmm, you must have been watching a lot of different games to me and LOI people met via the Ireland scene.

The quality has improved, but overall, the top flight generally is not the same as the SPL and about Div.3 in England, though better than the domestic leagues in the North and Cymru.


I disagree wholeheartedly.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's like anything. The best players in the SPL are better than the best players in the LOI, but on average there's no difference. Gary Mackay-Steven and Danny Wilson are no better than Chris Forrester and Daryl Horgan. The only difference is they play in a league that has enough money to give them fully professional preparation for matches. Eliminate the difference in facilities and compensation and the LOI would catch up overnight. A bit of Sky money would be lovely.

[bullit]

Betting on matches involving LOI sides

Drogheda Utd 4/1 Draw 11/4 Malmó FF 8/15 (7.45 ko)

VMFD Zalgiris 4/5 Draw 5/2 St.Pats Ath 11/4 (7.15 ko)


http://www.paddypower.com/football/football-matches/europa-league-coupon

[Charlie Darwin]

That's a decent punt on Pats. I'd say they're much better than 3/1 to win in Lithuania.

[nigel-harps1954]

A double on a draw interests me.

[Charlie Darwin]

I dunno, I think a Pats win is more likely.

[nigel-harps1954]

I dunno, I see Pat's getting an away draw and a home win. Drogs will surprise Malmo in Tallaght but end up getting well beaten in Sweden.

[gufcfan]

I dunno, I think a Pats win is more likely.
Žalgiris haven't lost in 19 games. 16 wins and 3 draws. Their last loss before that was in Europe last season. Got hammered 5-1 away at Admira in Austria after drawing 1-1 with them at home.

They've kept clean sheets in 8 of their last 10 home games and have done exactly the same away from home.

They've also only conceded 6 goals in 17 league games so far this season and their GD is more than twice that of their nearest rivals in 2nd.

39 competitive games played since they were knocked out of Europe last year.

Won 33
Drew 5
Lost 1

Lithuanian league, but still.

[Charlie Darwin]

Aye, it's league leaders against league leaders and the leagues are tied in terms of coefficient. I just think Pats and Liam Buckley are ideally placed for European football and Christy Fagan has finally figured out how to score goals. I think an away draw is the least of their capabilities.

[Spudulika]

Drogs to draw in Tallaght, Pats to draw away. Zalgiris are okay, but being dominant in Lithuania is nothing to shout about. The difference, with them, is that they're full professional (in concept) but I can see Pats out thinking them. Liam's a European manager, he'll get them through. All going well Pats should end up in the 3rd round. Drogs, love to see them pull off a shock, but on league form they've no chance - then again....

[bennocelt]

monies in theory are filtering down to the grassroots and :rolleyes: even 'barstoolers' when they do take a passing interest, it's hard to see how the national league can achieve much credibility with a wider audience.

And that's even before you factor in that the product' is not exactly of the highest quality. Especially when you often compare to games on TV.

Wish the LOI well, but the attitude of some of its fans is as unhelpful as the inertia of the FAI in promoting the domestic league.

But the ole ole brigade always are on the defensive when you ask them about LOI football and their lack of interest.
And "the product" is live football which should be enough for any football fan to appreciate. And the standard isnt bad

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye Benno, would largely agree but there's a massive reluctance as indicated by some on here to even contemplate embrace widening the fan-base blaming 'barstoolers', The FAI and even fans of the national team, some of whom are not near a senior club (despite Nigel's admirable but selective explanation) for all the ills of the domestic game.

Which just ain't right.

[osarusan]

The idea that the behaviour/attitude of LOI fans, either online or at grounds, is a genuine reason that people don't get involved in LOI football, is just the biggest pile of crap.

People don't want to watch LOI? Fine, I've no problem with that, but spare me the various "I would go, but: I'm afraid the fans will be mean to me/it's too far away*/the clubs have never reached out to me/etc" excuses.

*There are some people who are genuinely quite far away from the closest LOI club, but it's not the case for many using it as an excuse.

[dejadem]

Drogs will surprise Malmo in Tallaght.

That would be nice but can't see it happening, we are pretty bad at the moment.

[Dodge]

Fair points all, but given the relative derision towards even fans of the national team, whose ticket monies in theory are filtering down to the grassroots and :rolleyes: even 'barstoolers' when they do take a passing interest, it's hard to see how the national league can achieve much credibility with a wider audience.


I'd say 95% of LOI fans support the national team. Don't let internet eejits cloud your view on that

[bennocelt]

The idea that the behaviour/attitude of LOI fans, either online or at grounds, is a genuine reason that people don't get involved in LOI football, is just the biggest pile of crap.

People don't want to watch LOI? Fine, I've no problem with that, but spare me the various "I would go, but: I'm afraid the fans will be mean to me/it's too far away*/the clubs have never reached out to me/etc" excuses.

*There are some people who are genuinely quite far away from the closest LOI club, but it's not the case for many using it as an excuse.


As a Mullingar man i have the difficult choice of athlone or longford - shudder:silly:

[MeathDrog]

Malmo 8/15 looks a very good price tbh.

Edit: now 2/5, PP copped themselves on.

[White Horse]

Malmo 8/15 looks a very good price tbh.

Edit: now 2/5, PP copped themselves on.

I went down to United Park last night and Drogheda looked much better than in the league. I wouldn't put an upset beyond them.

They are very unpredictable.