Richard Keogh

[Fizzer]

Sorry Razor, I still haven’t figured out how to use quotes but this is in response to your query.
The breathalyzer results (if that’s what was used by the police) do not compromise their right to a fair trial.In fact, they clearly assist that right by a court not having to rely on a police officer giving an ‘opinion’ re intoxication such as slurred speech, disorientation etc. Derby however, appear in my view, to have tried to introduce evidential material, which is prejudicial to the outcome of any trial, not only at pre-trial stage, but into the public domain. This has the effect of potentially contaminating the deciders of fact and leading to the possibility that lawyers for the accused could argue that those accused cannot obtain a fair trial.
That, in my view is irresponsible by Derby. Nonetheless, a plea of guilty remains the most likely outcome you would think.
Also, would Derby have released such a statement if there had of been a fatality? or if the lads hadn’t wrapped the car around a pole but instead simply made it safely home? I doubt it, I would suggest Derby would have said nothing at all in the latter scenario which means their statement is just an empty, face-saving, cynical, PR exercise.
If Keogh was unfortunate enough to have died in the accident then he’d be hailed as a victim of yet another drink driver, the fact that he’s only suffered a career-threatening injury appears to now afford licence to cast him as a drunken, entitled, clown who has potentially thrown it all away with his selfish actions.

[Fixer82]

I’m going to stand up for Keogh here.
Not his actions. Of course, he was stupid to get in a car with a drunk driver. Of course, as club captain he should have led a better example.
But some comments here are a bit over the top. His career may well be over. I think that’s punishment enough for him.

Sometimes, people let off a bit of steam and go too far with drink. Of course it was highly unprofessional.

But as an Irish fan, I’ve never felt let down by Keogh’s commitment and my main feeling when I heard the news was that I’m glad he didn’t have a more serious injury.
He’s been a fantastic servant to us and calling him a clown and a sh!t player all seems a little bit cheap.

I hope he gets well soon.

[seanfhear]

Did the club have chauffeured cars there and available and yet the Club Captain decided to go with drunken young team mates .

I’ll be shocked if he is not out the door at Derby .

[Fixer82]

Did the club have chauffeured cars there and available and yet the Club Captain decided to go with drunken young team mates .

I’ll be shocked if he is not out the door at Derby .

Yes they did.
As I've stated, he was highly unprofessional.
But he's paid the price for it.
We've all done stupid things in our lives.
Rich footballers can do stupid things as well.
I'm just reacting to the lack of empathy to someone who's been a great servant for us.

[Olé Olé]

I do feel a bit sorry for Keogh. His actions were ridiculously stupid and reckless. I, like many people, have definitely been ridiculously stupid after drink. Hopefully not as stupid as this and I would hope that no matter how drunk I was that I wouldn't get into a car with a mate that is as drunk as I am.

However, the consequences of this drunken choice are irreversible and will stay with Keogh forever. This incident probably has ended his association with a club that he has served so well for 7 years. His club career may well be over and will be tainted by this. He has also served Ireland with great passion and bravery throughout his international career. He has p*ssed away his involvement in a potential Euro finals. This incident also will taint his international career and be as good as an asterisk beside his 26 caps.

One thing I will say, and maybe I'm naive, is that I don't think young lads in their 20's tend to even consider driving home locked from the pub these days. I am in my 20's myself and I can't think of a single person I know that would for the slightest second even consider hopping in to drive their car after a few pints. For two lads to hop into.two separate cars after, I'm assuming, more than a few pints is utterly heinous. For a man in his 30's to condone their behaviour by sitting into one of the cars is similarly moronic. I would like to hear that Keogh was utterly oblivionated by the drink and unknowingly lifted out to the car by Lawrence or Bennett- but that may be a stretch.

Anyway, one thing is for sure, society in Ireland and the UK has progressed a lot in the last 20 years or so as regards the dangers of drink driving. This is as good a deterrent as any for any young kid who hears about the story to never engage in the activity of drink driving.

[elatedscum]

Mostly I feel deep sympathy and sadness for Keogh.

99% likely he was incredibly stupid although there are hypothetical scenarios where he wasn’t. The example of him being passed out. Maybe Lawrence tells him that he was drinking just cokes rather than vodka and cokes and he buys it. Also a ridiculous stretch to imagine but possible. Or imagine Bennett speeds off drunk as the other lads try stop him. They jump in a car after him to get him to stop driving. And the lad who is most sober takes the wheel. They’re flashing and beeping at him. He slams on the breaks and they swerve to avoid leading to the crash. It’ll all come out in court I guess. No point on rushing to final judgment ourselves.

Anyway, in most scenarios he was stupid to get in the car. We don’t know if there were any other passengers but he paid a price that was so much higher than everyone else involved.

One bad choice may have ended his career. He’ll have to live with the consequences of that as long as he lives.

In recent years, the conversation around mental health issues of players, particularly retired players has started to exist. Divorce rates once players retire. Rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide. I would worry about how any human would deal with what’s happened to Richard and not hate themselves for it...

[Diggs246]

Back to football. What will be our back 4 for the games?

Would this be too bold. Matt Doh. Egan lenigan. Coleman

[Fixer82]

I’m thinking Doherty, Long, Egan, Coleman.

I presume Clark will be recalled to the squad

[Olé Olé]

Is it Tets that normally creates the match threads? Probably time to do so, 2 weeks out from Georgia.

[DeLorean]

I would worry about how any human would deal with what’s happened to Richard and not hate themselves for it...

It's going to be very tough for him for a while but he'll be okay I think, he's a strong character. He really doesn't seem the reckless type either, having made a career out of being a great professional and a leader. People make mistakes, even really stupid and dangerous ones.

[geysir]

This was bound to happen at some stage just as Paul predicted, considering his car crash defending.

[DeLorean]

I think towk called it too. :D

[seanfhear]

He certainly won’t be winning any Captain of the Year Awards .

[Razors left peg]

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this, and I disagree with you Fizzer, but I've just seen pictures of Keoghs knee from the accident and the lad will be lucky if he is not walking with a limp for the rest of his life never mind play again.

Have to wish him well in his recovery even if I think he acted stupidly.

[Razors left peg]

https://twitter.com/deanorams6388/status/1177334206311075848?s=21

Thats a tweet of a Whats App recording that is doing the rounds with an account of what happened. I believe from what I've read that is another player talking ( Not Stephen Ward).

If its all true you can see why Derby County didnt hold back in their statement.

[tricky_colour]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10018882/derby-county-footballers-drink-drive-richard-keogh/amp/

There but for the grace of God.....

[tricky_colour]

Will be doubly bad if derby rivals forest go top of the championship tonight, currently halftime, 1-1 v stoke, forest go top if they win.

[tricky_colour]

Forest 2-1 at the moment, will be the first time they have been top in as long as I can remember, they have no Irish players through. 3-1 now, might be their year, the new manager cashing in on O'Neill's work.

[backstothewall]

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this, and I disagree with you Fizzer, but I've just seen pictures of Keoghs knee from the accident and the lad will be lucky if he is not walking with a limp for the rest of his life never mind play again.

Have to wish him well in his recovery even if I think he acted stupidly.

I've seen those pics and seems some screen grabs from whats app discussing what happened.

He's been incredibly daft and has paid a high price but I doubt he'll need anyone else to tell him how stupid he's been. Hard to imagine he hasn't lost a career that he would probably have hoped to bring to a close on the grand stage of a European Championships.

I'll simply pay tribute to him. He played 26 times for us and never let us down. He was one of the 14 men who made 08/10/2015 a day I will remember for as long as I can hold air in my lungs.

Maith thú Richard

[tricky_colour]

It is a position where we have a fair bit of cover I would say, ie not the end of the world. Central defence is our strongest position imo.

[Tipp Townie]

https://twitter.com/dcfcofficial/status/1177191236538654721?s=19

Out for the season and Derby haven't held back in their statement.

Any chance someone can paste the statement on this thread?
I can't access the link at the mo

[DeLorean]

As a club, we cannot, and do not, condone the actions of a small group of players on Tuesday evening.

The players were out as part of a scheduled team-building dinner with staff and while the majority of them acted responsibly and left at around 8pm and were not involved, a small group, including the team captain Richard Keogh, continued drinking into the night. They should have known when to stop and also ignored the opportunity to be driven home using cars laid on by the club, and chose to stay out.

As a result of an alcohol-related incident, Richard Keogh has sustained a serious knee injury that will prevent him from playing until the end of the season.

The players involved in the incident on Tuesday evening will be subject to a rigorous internal investigation under the club’s code of conduct and disciplinary procedures, but over and above any punishment they receive we will be expecting them to become involved with the excellent work the Community Trust does helping the communities we serve.

We have been very clear about our attitude towards alcohol and the players know that at certain and specific times of the season they are permitted a drink together as a group in a controlled environment.

Those involved in Tuesday’s incident know they will pay a heavy price for their actions, but also that we will support them with their rehabilitation back into the squad and team.

We fully support the work of our partners at Drinkaware and the unsanctioned actions of this small group of players is totally at odds the stance that both Drinkaware and Derby County Football Club take regards alcohol. We will be using this situation to redouble our efforts in highlighting the dangers posed by alcohol.

We would also like to thank the emergency services for their swift help.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I can't summon an ounce of sympathy for him.
It's an ignominious end to a career* the vast, vast majority of professional footballers would've envied** and we're not well enough stocked to just shrug off his absence. But there's too many in the graveyard who didn't have a drop themselves but met gowls like them on the way home.

*Derby'll release him next summer. Might've done anyway. He's finished with them now though and no one to blame but himself.
**Independent today claiming he stands to lose 2.5M

[DeLorean]

It would being a serious display of loyalty if Derby did anything but sack him really.

[seanfhear]

The only thing that might save him is that they then would be under pressure to sack the other two . They are younger and may be valuable players re possible sale or valuable players to the club as players for the club .

[DeLorean]

The only thing that might save him is that they then would be under pressure to sack the other two . They are younger and may be valuable players re possible sale or valuable players to the club as players for the club .

Good point. Sorry, actually a very obvious point but one I didn't think of. :o

[seanfhear]

Football clubs can be ruthless and may want to make an example of Richard Keogh . My reasoning may not be Derby’s reasoning .

[CraftyToePoke]

Football clubs can be ruthless and may want to make an example of Richard Keogh . My reasoning may not be Derby’s reasoning .

I think they'll be ruthless, the game usually is, the other two have a value, RK is expendable. He was also captain so there can be feigned justifiable extra anger to suit the situation.

[geysir]

Imagine the furore had a drunken Richie attacked and headbutted a star team mate leaving him with a black eye:rolleyes:

Afaics Richie's contract can not be terminated willy nilly and he was not even driving the car.

By the sounds of it, the club will be involved in the rehabilition program, the maximum limits of the punishment have already been set

"The players involved will be subject to a rigorous internal investigation under the club’s code of conduct and disciplinary procedures, but over and above any punishment they receive we will be expecting them to become involved with the excellent work the Community Trust does helping the communities we serve."

[CraftyToePoke]

Wiki says he is contracted till 2021.

[Razors left peg]

The only thing that might save him is that they then would be under pressure to sack the other two . They are younger and may be valuable players re possible sale or valuable players to the club as players for the club .

This is something that I've interesting in US sports since I moved to the US a few years ago. They tolerate a lot in their athletes over here, drugs bans are only about 4 games in the NFL for example. But when a player does something that the clubs or league feel is going to damage their image they will sack the player and not worry about his resale or trade value. The 2 most high profile examples of this is the Kansas City Chiefs last year got rid of one of their best players in Kareem Hunt when a video of him getting into a fight with a woman emerged. He was a mega star on the rise. This season Antonio Brown was released for a number of reasons, but it boils down to he was fired because of bad image for the game.

Now Im sure there a multiple cases that people could throw at me where it didnt happen in the US when a player should have be fired but it does always seem to be a common theme in soccer where pretty much anything is tolerated and the justification a lot of the time is that "Well if we released his another club would just pick him up for free"

[DeLorean]

He'll be out until December 2020, it's being reported, having ruptures two knee ligaments - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/11823723/derbys-richard-keogh-out-for-up-to-15-months-with-two-damaged-knee-ligaments-after-car-accident

[brine3]

I thought ligaments were a six to nine month job nowadays. 15 months for Keogh? If it's that bad he may as well focus on just being able to have good use of his knees for the rest of his days and hang up the boots.

[Fixer82]

Would there not be something in a player's contract saying that if a player injures themselves through alcohol or drug misuse, their contract can be made null and void?

[Razors left peg]

Would there not be something in a player's contract saying that if a player injures themselves through alcohol or drug misuse, their contract can be made null and void?
Probably, but my point is that clubs are very unwilling to do that because they are afraid of missing out on sell on value.

[irishfan86]

I think there’s also the club image factor. Derby will come out of this situation looking a lot better if they stick by the players while demanding they repay society.

Immediately releasing players doesn’t look good IMO unless there’s a history of problems.

There is also value for prospective signings when they see this is a club that takes a human approach rather than an Old Testament view of justice.

[brine3]

Considering Keogh wasn't the one driving, they have nothing on him anyway.

If an employer tries to sack somebody for being injured as a passenger in a car, the lawyers will have a field day.

[paul_oshea]

Was it keoghs vehicle though? I'm assuming its not, but if it is then letting someone else drive it who is under the influence is the same as you driving it.

I think they can justifiably sack him given he is club captain. There be some clause of extreme action resulting in evacuandam contractus. But it looks at this stage they are not going to do that. And Richard can count himself a very lucky boy. Perhaps they will look to terminate his contract and pay him off, x amounts of months.

[elatedscum]

There could be a injured with no-seatbelt clause or something.

Carlo Cudicini went a year unpaid because his contract had a clause saying he couldn’t ride a motorbike. So when he broke both his wrists and his pelvis, Spurs didn’t pay him until he was fit again.

Players contracts also have stuff about skiing and other ‘dangerous activities’.

[Diggs246]

Was it keoghs vehicle though? I'm assuming its not, but if it is then letting someone else drive it who is under the influence is the same as you driving it.

I think they can justifiably sack him given he is club captain. There be some clause of extreme action resulting in evacuandam contractus. But it looks at this stage they are not going to do that. And Richard can count himself a very lucky boy. Perhaps they will look to terminate his contract and pay him off, x amounts of months.

Keogh has no car, he cant drive

[geysir]

Was it keoghs vehicle though? I'm assuming its not, but if it is then letting someone else drive it who is under the influence is the same as you driving it.

I think they can justifiably sack him given he is club captain. There be some clause of extreme action resulting in evacuandam contractus. But it looks at this stage they are not going to do that. And Richard can count himself a very lucky boy. Perhaps they will look to terminate his contract and pay him off, x amounts of months.

They can justifiably sack him given he is club captain?? You are confused Paul, this ain't the army. It's a football club where the club captain does not have extra contractual burdens, if the club captain does not meet the standards of being club captain, then the role is given to somebody else.

[tetsujin1979]

Pretty sure if they do sack him, without any criminal charges being applied, they'll be sued for wrongful dismissal.

[Fixer82]

If I was on the board of Derby County I’d be sending Keogh on a drink awareness course and then offering him a player/coach role when he returns.

Good PR for the club and protecting the player as well. He strikes me as someone who’d be a good defensive coach in the future and is obviously popular around the place.

[seanfhear]

If I was on the board of Derby County I’d be sending Keogh on a drink awareness course and then offering him a player/coach role when he returns.

Good PR for the club and protecting the player as well. He strikes me as someone who’d be a good defensive coach in the future and is obviously popular around the place.Perhaps a bit too social with the younger players !

[tricky_colour]

Considering Keogh wasn't the one driving, they have nothing on him anyway.

If an employer tries to sack somebody for being injured as a passenger in a car, the lawyers will have a field day.


I suspect he may have been unconscious through drink at the time!

Which is kind of double edged sword responsibility wise.

[tommy_c12000]

Interestingly, Lawrence starts and Bennett on the bench today for Derby. No chance they can justify trying to scrap Keoghs contract now. They will just allow it run out in summer Id imagine, Keogh may pick up another club next year you’d never know

[osarusan]

Pretty sure if they do sack him, without any criminal charges being applied, they'll be sued for wrongful dismissal.
I wouldn't be sure about that at all. Why would criminal charges be a necessity?

His contract will almost certainly have a clause about not engaging in behaviour that would tarnish the club's image, and, depending on the wording of that clause, it's not hard to imagine Derby deciding he has done that.

[Razors left peg]

They obviously dont care if they are playing the other 2 guys tonight. That is actually disgraceful and shows that money over rules everything!

[seanfhear]

They obviously dont care if they are playing the other 2 guys tonight. That is actually disgraceful and shows that money over rules everything!Football at these levels is hypocrisy personified .

[NeverFeltBetter]

Driving ban for two years, 180 hours "unpaid work" for the two: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/1015/1083529-derby-footballers-avoid-jail-for-drink-driving-crash/