Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[CraftyToePoke]

You probably heard that it meant 'pig mounter'?

Yeah, yeah that's the one. Good ol' Pig Mounter. So lets just say you were out there in the middle on the big green thing CD facing 90 versus Bastian, what would your opening salvo in the banter war be?

[BonnieShels]

One of my favourite players of all time, for sure. The fact he resembles Terry Hall of the Specials is an added bonus.

Yip mine too. I genuinely get a thrill out if watching him control games. and it's so subtley done that it sometimes looks so unremarkable.

[paul_oshea]

Dont think this was posted before gomez and draxler are missing from the squad:


Tor: Manuel Neuer (Bayern München), Ron-Robert Zieler (Hannover 96), Marc-Andre ter Stegen (Borussia Mönchengladbach) Abwehr: Holger Badstuber, Jerome Boateng, Philipp Lahm (alle Bayern München), Mats Hummels, Marcel Schmelzer (beide Borussia Dortmund), Benedikt Höwedes (Schalke 04), Per Mertesacker (FC Arsenal) Mittelfeld: Lars Bender (Bayer Leverkusen), Mario Götze, Ilkay Gündogan, Marco Reus (alle Borussia Dortmund), Mesut Özil, Sami Khedira (beide Real Madrid), Toni Kroos, Thomas Müller, Bastian Schweinsteiger (alle Bayern München), Lukas Podolski (FC Arsenal), Andre Schürrle (Bayer Leverkusen) Angriff: Miroslav Klose (Lazio Rom)

The pig climber is in the squad, he served his suspension already, who gave out that bad piece of information previously?!

[jbyrne]

its being reported that kevin doyle is out injured from the next two qualifiers. big loss if true

[Charlie Darwin]

Stale Solbakken quoted as saying he's "definitely" out: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19846888

[Supreme feet]

This is a strange feeling. I'm actually dreading this game. I wrote on here before the Serbia squad announcement that if we didn't see widespread changes in selection, tactics and formation, it would be a long two years. Now we're going into the Germany game, and it looks like O'Shea and Ward at full-back again, Whelan and Andrews in the middle again, and the added idiosyncrasy of Cox or Keogh in midfield. With two centre-backs who have never played at a higher level of club football than second-tier in England, and a veteran striker who has looked off the pace and remained goalless in his last eight internationals.

I've always been a strong supporter of Trap. The discipline, organisation, purpose and common-sense he brought to the side in 2008 was refreshing, the tactics were spot-on for the players we had available, and the performance in Paris was one of the most compelling we've ever shown, under any manager. Despite qualification, the last campaign was, if anything, less convincing performance-wise, and wrong options were taken with regard to blooding new players, but we got the results we needed. Even now, the only games we've lost under Trap have been against teams who are seeded and ranked higher than us. Disappointing home draws with Slovakia and Bulgaria were cancelled out by good performances and fine points in the away games. You can't fire a manager for merely failing to over-achieve once projected targets are met, which is what Trap has done.

However, the Irish player pool has changed and evolved since 2008, while the selections, the approach, and the tactics have not. In the last couple of years, we've had a number of excellent young players coming through to play regular EPL football. The focus should be on accommodating and getting the best from these players. It hasn't been done. The likely starting line-up in a week's time will contain six players (Ward, O'Dea, St. Ledger, Andrews, Cox/Keogh, Keane) playing at an inferior level of football to the contenders for their spots (Wilson, Coleman, Clark, McCarthy, McClean, Long). Arguments can be made that the incumbents have done little wrong while playing for Ireland, but their misfortunes at club level are worrying - if they genuinely still had the quality to play in a successful international side, they wouldn't be plodding away in second-rate leagues, for second-rate clubs. True, the likes of Alan Kelly, Alan McLoughlin and David Kelly had decent international careers while playing in the second-tier, but players like that are generally the exception. You need a core of players who are in form, playing for good clubs, and attuned to playing against the best. We have a number of those players, but they're not being used. If we steadfastly accepted the logic that 'if they've done okay for Ireland, it doesn't matter what level they play at for their clubs', we'd still have Liam Miller, Martin Rowlands and Eddie Nolan stinking up the squad.

Trap's insistence on sticking with the more 'workmanlike' players could be justified if our defensive record was as impressive as before, but we've conceded 14 goals in our last 12 games, leaking goals even to Armenia, Estonia and Kazakhstan in competitive games. The signs aren't good. Trap's tactics are built to compensate for our lack of technique, and to play to the traditional Irish strengths of attrition, stubbornness and hard-nosed physicality, which are admirable traits in sport, but useless in a modern era, where soccer has been emasculated by Blatter and Platini's insistence on undermining the physical, combative element of the game.

The squad actually looks weaker and less-developed now than at any time in the last four years, and the manager has to carry the can for that. Unfortunately, I think the direction from Trap, which was refreshing, purposeful and pragmatic at the beginning, has become wayward and lost. He is a legendary manager, and I'm not convinced that we'll get an ideal replacement at the end of this campaign (because let's face it, he's going nowhere until his contract runs out), but his ideas are not sitting well with Ireland right now.

I can only hope that our seeding does not suffer too badly in this campaign, and that the next manager doesn't have to build from a 'McCarthy 96' type of wreckage. Or that Trap surprises us all by making the calls that need to be made (O'Shea at CB, Ward and Whelan dropped, Coleman, McClean, McCarthy and Long in). On all counts, I'm not too optimistic.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm inclined to agree with most of the above except that I think the game is better off for the changes Blatter has championed to protect players and promote technique. More fool us for not adapting. Soccer has been advanced by these changes, not emasculated.

[Supreme feet]

I'm inclined to agree with most of the above except that I think the game is better off for the changes Blatter has championed to protect players and promote technique. More fool us for not adapting. Soccer has been advanced by these changes, not emasculated.

It's probably a debate for a different thread, and I understand your perspective, but I think Blatter and Platini have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, in many respects, with their changes. Fair, ball-winning tackles, shoulder-charging and 50-50 aerial duels are universally penalised; divers and cheats are allowed to prosper, unpunished, by going down with the slightest hint of contact. This kind of thing leads to football being diluted as a spectacle, and has lost a lot of goodwill for the sport among would-be fans in the general public. In 1994, Platini mooted the idea of banning 'the tackle' altogether, and making football a non-contact sport. He was shouted down then, but since he's come to power, football seems to be going that way. I was watching the Ireland-Spain game from 2002 the other day - it occurred to me that Matt Holland would be penalised nowadays for the kind of 'hard but fair' challenges he was putting in, and I have a problem with that.

I agree that players should be protected, and dangerous play punished, but there has to be some middle ground.

[geysir]

The pig climber is in the squad, he served his suspension already, who gave out that bad piece of information previously?!
I don't think there was any mention of a Schweinsteiger suspension but it was always a sure bet that the Dortmund Schweinsteiger would not turn up.

[Stuttgart88]

I dunno SF. I think lots of hard but fair tackles are allowed as long as they aren't dangerous. I thought Euro 2012 was conspicuous for a lack of diving and I generally think the divers are the same people over and over again, for the most part.

There's a big difference between hard-but-fair and prehistoric savagery like Alan Hutton's tackle on Shane Long last year that Hansen saw nothing wrong with. I think you've bought into a lot of the "it's a contact sport / it's a man's game" cliches rolled out by pundits from yesteryear. It still is a contact sport but it's also now a very athletic sport and a sport where both good skill and good tackling (itself a skill) is rewarded. I loved during the Euros how defenders won tackles staying on their feet, relying on timing. Wonderful stuff.

Only Martin Keown has called it right among the bruisers now commentating. A sliding tackle where you sweeep the ball with the top of your laces is great. A sliding tackle where you present your studs to the ball isn't.

This article caught my attention during the Euros because it's what I was thinking at the time too:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/five-reasons-euro-2012-is-so-great-7855101.html

Sorry I'll try not to digress anymore.

Isn't there a thread on this theme ("He won the ball" or something like that) in World Football?

Mods, can you move these comments and SF and I can continue this strand?

[Supreme feet]

Again, mods, move this if possible.

Of course I would never condone vicious, studs-up challenges like Hutton's, and I do find some of the commentary on the subject to be quite boorish and jingoistic from various British pundits (especially Hansen as you mention). However, it's the upper-body contact, and incidents of minimal leg contact, that I feel are punished too harshly. I've noticed it while watching Ireland - we seem to get pinged all-too-often for minor infringements, like Andrews muscling someone off the ball, or Doyle challenging for a 50-50 header - infringements that would be let go in an EPL or LOI game. It makes our games very stop-start, too, which is frustrating. Long spends a lot of time in the EPL physically challenging for balls, and roughing up the opposition centre-backs - I wonder if Trap refuses to start him in big games because he won't get away with being so physical at international level?

Generally, I don't understand why mistimed stand-up tackles involving minimal contact are often punished by yellow cards, and there is still no retrospective punishment given to players who dive and fake injury. Despite the progress shown at the Euros (I was in Poland for it, so I was too "distracted" to notice any trends) I've still noticed a lot of cringe-worthy, histrionic stuff during CL and EPL games lately.

[Crosby87]

Ok Genius, that first Gethsemane was something, but now you are just looking for attention. :D

Why is everyone so depressed?
I mean I think they will lose 4-0 to the Germans but I am never right about WCQ. NEVER!
PS I got a notification on here for making a joke about people fearing the Germans as being "nazi sympathizers." Obviously, kidding. Hello.
What is going on here? POSH you must rally the troops man.

[gastric]

Don't know if this is still the situation with Doyle, but the FAI are still living in hope he is fit. Meyler called in just in case.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/1005/1224324934324.html

[Noelys Guitar]

Our record against the Germans is good. I have seen us beat their b team at Dalymount with a last minute goal. Draw with their first team 1-1 and they hung on for that draw. Beat them 2=0 under Jack in Germany. Incredible result. But I cant see us replicating any of the results mentioned as our current manager simply does not believe in this team or the players available.

[Grafter]

But I cant see us replicating any of the results mentioned as our current manager simply does not believe in this team or the players available.

I live in hope that as match kick-off draws closer next week Trap realises that O'Shea belong at centre back with St Ledger. Please god Coleman has done enough in last month's impressive auditions to claim the right back berth. I think it's being overly hopeful he'll drop Ward at LB but injuries can happen with Wolves (hopefully!) and Wilson is put in. That leaves only the right side of midfield to sort out, I actually think Long has a shot of making the team in that position this time forming a five man midfield of Long-Andrews-Whelan-McCarthy-McGeady with orders to support as much as possible the lone striker Robbie foraging up front.
I'd be more confident of that team formation over others getting a result considering what is now available.... (keep McClean in reserve for second half)

[theworm2345]

Our record against the Germans is good. I have seen us beat their b team at Dalymount with a last minute goal. Draw with their first team 1-1 and they hung on for that draw. Beat them 2=0 under Jack in Germany. Incredible result. But I cant see us replicating any of the results mentioned as our current manager simply does not believe in this team or the players available.
If Stan can pull off a 0-1 loss in Germany (lucky goal at that) and a 0-0 draw at home, surely we have to be in with a shout.

[pineapple stu]

Jakub Mikkelsen named in the Faroes' squad; unbelievable. The lad was on the bench in their first ever full international back in 1988!

[Supreme feet]

Brady called up. With Meyler in there now too, the midfield options look stronger.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/worldcup/2012/1006/340558-doyle-ruled-out-brady-called-up-to-ireland-squad/

[tricky_colour]

Is it true the Faroe Islands are in Egypt?

[tricky_colour]

Jakub Mikkelsen named in the Faroes' squad; unbelievable. The lad was on the bench in their first ever full international back in 1988!

He is a keeper though, 42 years old so getting towards the end of his career I expect.

I think Peter Shilton and Pat Jennings were playing internationals at 41, I bet there are older than that.

Actually I just goggled it and it comes up with....... Jákup Mikkelsen,

[tricky_colour]

It is believed that Jákup Mikkelsen, who defended the Faroese goal in yesterday’s international friendly match against Iceland, set a record for being the oldest goalkeeper to ever play in a FIFA international game.

Jákup Mikkelsen was born in August 14 1970, which makes him 42 years old. It has yet to be confirmed that he is the oldest international goalkeeper ever, but according to previous records, the Italian goalkeeper and world champion in 1982, Dino Zoff, was 41 years and 3 months when he played his last game for Italy in 1983 and has until yesterday had the record of being the oldest international goalkeeper. The North Irish legend that played for Arsenal, Pat Jennings, had just turned 41 when he played his last match as North Ireland’s goalkeeper in 1986. Although Pat Jennings may not have been the oldest goalkeeper ever, he played as North Ireland’s goalkeeper for 23 years, which is more than both Jákup Mikkelsen and Dino Zoff. Jákup Mikkelsen had is debut for the Faroese national team in 1995, and Dino Zoff for the Italian national team in 1968.

Jákup Mikkelsen is, however, not the oldest football player ever to play an international match. Walisiski Billy Meredith was 45 years and 229 days old when his carrier ended for Wales all the way back in 1920, and Stanley Matthews was 42 years 104 days old when he played his last game for England in1957.

I am very excited to see if my indications are right.

If you can think of any older goalkeepers, please let me know http://whatsupblog0.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-oldest-goalkeeper-ever-to-play.html

Can't believe there is and older outfield player!!!!!! by 3 years!!!

[theworm2345]

Plenty of internationals from Caribbean sides (especially smaller ones) who have played at similar ages to that.

Montgomery Butler of the British Virgin Islands recently (a few weeks ago) tended goal against Montserrat at age 45 in a Caribbean Cup match.

Keithroy Cornelius of the United States Virgin Islands played in the World Cup Qualifiers last year at age 43.

Montserrat's manager Kenny Dyer played in the Caribbean Cup back in 2010 at age 46.

James Slattery of Turks and Caicaos played for them in a World Cup Qualifier back in 2004 at 45+

However, the oldest has to be Anguilla's Ian Edwards, who at 51 played (and was sent off) for Anguilla in a friendly a few months back against British Virgin Islands. Also played in the 2010 Caribbean Cup when he was just shy of 50. For all I know he could be in the squad to play in the Caribbean Cup next week.

[the doc]

St Ledger just pulled up with what looks like a bad hamstring injury at Leic today!

[Noelys Guitar]

St Ledger just pulled up with what looks like a bad hamstring injury at Leic today!
Hes definitely out of both upcoming games. They had an interesting piece on Germany on Gol TV today. Low is not a popular man amongst the various German fans they interviewed. Cliched stuff on the Irish fighting spirit from Low himself but he obviously fully expects to win. Play Long Trap. Play Shane Long and drop Keane. Play 5 in midfield with McCarthy and Coleman starting. Stop hoofing the ball as Low and the Germans fully expect.

[gastric]

Not looking good ahead of Friday!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/1006/340608-hgfh/

[Charlie Darwin]

I live in hope that as match kick-off draws closer next week Trap realises that O'Shea belong at centre back with St Ledger.
Slaughtered by Alan Shearer for turning his back on the ball for Aguero's goal today. I have to say I agree with Shearer for once.

[Noelys Guitar]

Slaughtered by Alan Shearer for turning his back on the ball for Aguero's goal today. I have to say I agree with Shearer for once.
That was bad and I've seen him do it before. He better not do that on Friday night.

[IsMiseSean]

Thomas Muller went off early in Bayern's win today with a nasty facial injury. Might be out on Friday... I'm sure they'll find someone just as good to replace him!

[Charlie Darwin]

That was bad and I've seen him do it before. He better not do that on Friday night.
It's a typical full back move, ironically, since I've always felt he's a natural centre half.


Thomas Muller went off early in Bayern's win today with a nasty facial injury. Might be out on Friday... I'm sure they'll find someone just as good to replace him!
They will. Mueller is arguably not even worth his spot right now, which is scary considering he almost single-handedly won a Champions League final.

[DannyInvincible]

That was bad and I've seen him do it before. He better not do that on Friday night.

Remember 3:20?:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kquN7nmtU

[Charlie Darwin]

That goal was coming and coming and coming. O'Shea has always done that, and Rio does it too. I can't for the life of me understand why it wasn't coached out of him at a club like Manchester United. In junior soccer I had it screamed out of me.

[fionnsci]

Rugger tore the pitch up horribly last night, presume it won't be an issue. Injuries are worrying but sure... I'd say it'll be 1-2/0-2.

Westwood
Coleman O'Shea O'Dea Wilson
McGeady Andrews McCarthy McClean (Brady)
Keane Long

[AlaskaFox]

A Trap team with no Whelan?

[boovidge]

Rugger tore the pitch up horribly last night, presume it won't be an issue.

Not with the way we play

[ArdeeBhoy]

Thomas Muller went off early in Bayern's win today with a nasty facial injury. Might be out on Friday... I'm sure they'll find someone just as good to replace him!


We're going to get Mullered regardless...
:(

[nigel-harps1954]

Plenty of internationals from Caribbean sides (especially smaller ones) who have played at similar ages to that.

Montgomery Butler of the British Virgin Islands recently (a few weeks ago) tended goal against Montserrat at age 45 in a Caribbean Cup match.

Keithroy Cornelius of the United States Virgin Islands played in the World Cup Qualifiers last year at age 43.

Montserrat's manager Kenny Dyer played in the Caribbean Cup back in 2010 at age 46.

James Slattery of Turks and Caicaos played for them in a World Cup Qualifier back in 2004 at 45+

However, the oldest has to be Anguilla's Ian Edwards, who at 51 played (and was sent off) for Anguilla in a friendly a few months back against British Virgin Islands. Also played in the 2010 Caribbean Cup when he was just shy of 50. For all I know he could be in the squad to play in the Caribbean Cup next week.


I played a game the other day. Granted I'm nowhere near 40, nor was it international, but just thought you should know.



Thomas Muller went off early in Bayern's win today with a nasty facial injury. Might be out on Friday... I'm sure they'll find someone just as good to replace him!

(insert joke about rice pudding)

[Noelys Guitar]

Stephen Kelly better watch out or he will be ****ing outside the tent. Has a go at Trapatonni (rightly so) over the Duff coming back nonsense. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/traps-strange-talk-of-duff-return-baffles-kelly-3251517.html

[peadar1987]

Keithroy Cornelius is now officially my favourite name ever for a person!

[Supreme feet]

Glenn Whelan just limped off at Anfield.

[Charlie Darwin]

We'll be reduced to Wes Hoolahan at this rate.

[IsMiseSean]

Is Lahm suspended? Picked up yellow's in the first two qualifiers...

[Charlie Darwin]

Yes, Lahm is suspended.

[Noelys Guitar]

Faroes v Sweden and Ireland v Germany game live on GOL TV for those in the Americas

[theworm2345]

Faroes v Sweden and Ireland v Germany game live on GOL TV for those in the Americas
Just make sure your TV has a mute function :sick:

[mark12345]

That was bad and I've seen him do it before. He better not do that on Friday night.

A leopard can't change its spots. O'Shea is one of the worst defenders we have ever produced in Ireland. An imposter in a United shirt for so long he was found out time and again every time United met a top side. And who can forget the two goals he was responsible for when Italy got a 2-2 draw at Croker. I suppose he'll get his game through the qualifiers because Trap continually rewards mediocrity.

[Supreme feet]

The Lansdowne pitch was cutting up very badly during the rugby yesterday. Seemingly, it was relaid after the American Football game, and it hasn't really taken root yet. All things considered, we should be praying for rain this week.

[Supreme feet]

A leopard can't change its spots. O'Shea is one of the worst defenders we have ever produced in Ireland. An imposter in a United shirt for so long he was found out time and again every time United met a top side. And who can forget the two goals he was responsible for when Italy got a 2-2 draw at Croker. I suppose he'll get his game through the qualifiers because Trap continually rewards mediocrity.

Which of our other world-class defenders would you have instead of him? And before you say it, I do like Clark, and think he should be in the squad but he's not yet of the standard where I'd be confident about him facing a top-quality international team. I recently saw O'Shea playing a near-flawless, clean-sheet game against Arsenal at centre-back, and he's been playing well there for Sunderland over the last year.

O'Shea and Dunne are still our best central defenders, and it's hardly O'Shea's fault that he's been shunted out into awkward, utility positions for most of his career. His major gaffes in an Ireland shirt have exclusively been at right and left-back.

[Charlie Darwin]

A leopard can't change its spots. O'Shea is one of the worst defenders we have ever produced in Ireland. An imposter in a United shirt for so long he was found out time and again every time United met a top side. And who can forget the two goals he was responsible for when Italy got a 2-2 draw at Croker. I suppose he'll get his game through the qualifiers because Trap continually rewards mediocrity.
O'Shea is not one of the worst defenders we have ever produced. That is a quite amazing piece of hyperbole. If he's an impostor he must be a very good one to have fooled so many great managers.

[gastric]

Stephen Kelly better watch out or he will be ****ing outside the tent. Has a go at Trapatonni (rightly so) over the Duff coming back nonsense. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/traps-strange-talk-of-duff-return-baffles-kelly-3251517.html

Maybe, Trap was talking about Duffy rather than Duff as CB is possibly our biggest issue for Friday's game! :)

[Colbert Report]

So what does our probable team look like for the Germany match then? Assuming that Whelan is unavailable.