World Cup qualifying group C

[tetsujin1979]

There's only been six competitive victories over higher ranked opposition, plus the 1-0 win over France in normal time in the Play off
Blogged about it here: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Blog

[EAFC_rdfl]

Actually yer man is right;fair play. We were 51st and Slovakia 37th...
Though probably a hollow victory.


That's not the question. Most of us know what jbyrne is on about.
The question is, what is the point of your incessant negative/begrudging/sarcastic posts, which have zero constructive content?
Your posts don't even qualify as an opinion.


Clearly they do. Or you wouldn't respond.

And am hardly alone in having negative feelings about Trapp. Unlike some on here, do go to games so am well aware of the 'vibe' of regular fans and it's not always v.polite about our manager or national association.

Carrying on the bold trends in the latest posts here - it would be near-bearable if you kept it to having negative feelings about Trap. But I'd say what tipped geysir over the edge and made him post what he did, and I don't blame him, is your above post about a game long before Trap even appeared on the scene

[Charlie Darwin]

There's only been six competitive victories over higher ranked opposition, plus the 1-0 win over France in normal time in the Play off
Blogged about it here: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Blog
Hard to believe we'd fallen so low by the time of that Lithuania game. I remember thinking anything but a good win would be unfathomable.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Carrying on the bold trends in the latest posts here - it would be near-bearable if you kept it to having negative feelings about Trap. But I'd say what tipped geysir over the edge and made him post what he did, and I don't blame him, is your above post about a game long before Trap even appeared on the scene

Heh, fair point. Touche...

[bennocelt]

I wasn't saying that beating poor teams made us any great shakes. You know that. I was saying that the media hammers us for not pulverising these teams, yet teams with better pedigree than us did no better against these same teams, and sometimes worse. It was a very simple point. If you want to drop in a comment about you thinking we're a poor team, fine, but don't bring a post of mine saying something else entirely into it.

I'm well aware when we last beat a good team. What has the ole ole crowd got to do with anything? Who mentioned them? Take your wumming somewhere else, it's pretty tedious. Join in again when you've something sensible to offer, and not laden with poor efforts at sarcasm.


Ha ha, yes so the media should get excited about us beating faroes and the like? Other teams tend to win other competitions and give top teams a decent run out - Greece, Denmark, Russia, Ukraine......UNLIKE US since 2001 or whatever. Its the media, yes right.:rolleyes:

[Supreme feet]

Ha ha, yes so the media should get excited about us beating faroes and the like? Other teams tend to win other competitions and give top teams a decent run out - Greece, Denmark, Russia, Ukraine......UNLIKE US since 2001 or whatever. Its the media, yes right.:rolleyes:

By this logic, there's no point supporting a team, nor giving them any objective credit, unless they are consistently over-achieving far beyond their means or resources.

Yes, we beat top teams like Portugal, Holland, Croatia and Yugoslavia between 1995 and 2001. We also drew with Liechtenstein, Northern Ireland, Lithuania and Iceland, and lost to Macedonia, in that time. The highs were higher than anything we've seen under Trap, but the lows were much more frustrating, particularly given the quality of players available.

Wins over the likes of Macedonia, Cyprus, Georgia, Armenia, Estonia, Kazakhstan and the Faroes aren't going to get anyone overly excited, but they are the kind of results which get you to major tournaments - not just one-off big performances against top sides. Look at Northern Ireland in 2006/7; beat Spain, Denmark and Sweden... but lost to Latvia and Iceland, and thus failed to qualify. You might think that these results should be taken for granted as a minimum requirement, but results in European football do not back up that assertion.

All the teams you named have slipped up against weaker opposition in recent history; Denmark just lost to Armenia; Greece drew in Moldova a while back; Russia drew in Armenia and Azerbaijan, and lost a playoff to Slovenia; Ukraine have drawn with Belarus and Georgia. Ireland would be hammered by the media if we slipped up against any of those teams, and we are given absolutely no credit for winning against similarly-ranked opposition, which we have done consistently under Trapattoni.

[bennocelt]

By this logic, there's no point supporting a team, nor giving them any objective credit, unless they are consistently over-achieving far beyond their means or resources.

Yes, we beat top teams like Portugal, Holland, Croatia and Yugoslavia between 1995 and 2001. We also drew with Liechtenstein, Northern Ireland, Lithuania and Iceland, and lost to Macedonia, in that time. The highs were higher than anything we've seen under Trap, but the lows were much more frustrating, particularly given the quality of players available.

Wins over the likes of Macedonia, Cyprus, Georgia, Armenia, Estonia, Kazakhstan and the Faroes aren't going to get anyone overly excited, but they are the kind of results which get you to major tournaments - not just one-off big performances against top sides. Look at Northern Ireland in 2006/7; beat Spain, Denmark and Sweden... but lost to Latvia and Iceland, and thus failed to qualify. You might think that these results should be taken for granted as a minimum requirement, but results in European football do not back up that assertion.

All the teams you named have slipped up against weaker opposition in recent history; Denmark just lost to Armenia; Greece drew in Moldova a while back; Russia drew in Armenia and Azerbaijan, and lost a playoff to Slovenia; Ukraine have drawn with Belarus and Georgia. Ireland would be hammered by the media if we slipped up against any of those teams, and we are given absolutely no credit for winning against similarly-ranked opposition, which we have done consistently under Trapattoni.


Good points I will give you that:), but I do think we are underachieving. Paying a manager two million a year, why cant we do a Greece or a Denmark or at least get to a q-f of a comp.
One year under Jack we bet Holland, Germany and Italy all who had better squads. and when international football was tougher (IMHO). Why do we always settle for mediocrity? We have a decent bunch of players. All teams do slip up but the good ones also do it in the big competitions.
If we really are THAT bad then just give Roddy Collins the job.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The manager is probably under-achieving (in terms of some of his tactical innovation/flexibility), but the players aren't, in the main*
There is a difference.

*
See Messrs.Gibson, Ireland etc.

[Stuttgart88]

I do think we are underachieving.

Why do we always settle for mediocrity? We have a decent bunch of players. All teams do slip up but the good ones also do it in the big competitions.
It's a pity you didn't just say this from the start. I and many others would probably agree with you. Far more constructive than petty sarcastic non sequiturs.

[bennocelt]

It's a pity you didn't just say this from the start. I and many others would probably agree with you. Far more constructive than petty sarcastic non sequiturs.


Yeah yeah sure. Original point still stands, beating FIs isnt a big deal in the long term scheme of things

[Stuttgart88]

Beating FIs being a big deal was never my point. Nor was it not being a big deal your original point.

Why don't you just say what you want to say? You've picked on a series of my posts with responses unrelated to what I posted. You probably enjoy winding me up but I prefer the tone of this forum to be better than that. By all means challenge what I say but don't try and make out I'm saying something else.

[tetsujin1979]

Man City's Swedish striker John Guidetti is injured, and will miss the start of the new season. Don't know if this means he'll be out of the game in Dublin though: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/young-manchester-city-guns-set-4888751

JOHN GUIDETTI (60) – The 21-year-old Sweden international striker will miss the start of the season following knee surgery, but hopes his nightmare of illness and injury will finally come to an end, with Pellegrini already a fan
(60 is his squad number, not his age!)

[zero]

forde has picked up a knee injury.

https://twitter.com/MillwallFC/status/364308644784902145

doesn't sound too promising.

[back of the net]

forde has picked up a knee injury.

https://twitter.com/MillwallFC/status/364308644784902145

doesn't sound too promising.



confirmed he has to undergo knee surgery - length of absence , not given - but surely wont be available for sweden and austria

[ArdeeBhoy]

We have a month...
Hopefully Westwood gets some game time. And Randolph.

[Charlie Darwin]

Decision for Trap to make now is whether to play Randolph, who is first choice at Birmingham, against Wales or take a chance that Westwood will be starting for Sunderland this season.

[ArdeeBhoy]

My guess is Randolph. Though would prefer Westwood. Far from ideal.

[Charlie Darwin]

Elsewhere, Sweden are playing Norway at home (just gone 1-0 up within 2 minutes) and Germany are playing Paraguay, while Austria host Greece and the Faroes travel to Iceland. Kazakhstan beat Georgia earlier today.

[DannyInvincible]

Goals from our group rivals' friendly fixtures last night...

Sweden beat Norway 4-2 in Stockholm:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x134rot_sweden-4-2-norway-all-goals-14-08-2013-ourmatch-net_sport#from=embediframe

[DannyInvincible]

Austria lost 2-0 at home to Greece:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x134qdf_austria-greece-0-1_sport

[DannyInvincible]

And the second Greek goal from that game:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x134r97_austria-greece-0-2_sport#from=embediframe

[DannyInvincible]

Germany also drew 3-3 with Paraguay:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x134zxb_germany-3-3-paraguay-highlights-14-08-2013-ourmatch-net_sport#from=embediframe

[cornflakes]

Faroes one up away to Kazakhstan after 23 minutes. Nearly half time now

[Closed Account 2]

1-1 Kazakhs got a penalty - its just after HT.

[tetsujin1979]

2-1 to Kazakhstan now, 72 minutes gone

[geysir]

2-1 final result.
No bed of roses to be a supporter of the fishing islands in the north Atlantic.

Armenia beat the Czech Rep in Prague with a last gasp goal, probably killing off their qual hopes stone dead.

[DannyInvincible]

Kazakhstan and Sweden just kicking off now in Astana. Well, **** that... Sweden are 1-0 up through Zlatan inside 30 seconds.

[Stuttgart88]

Over, 1 nil. Playing for 3rd now.

[DannyInvincible]

I think it was mentioned in another thread that the second-place finisher in our group will most likely end up as the worst second-placed finisher of all nine groups, but such is unlikely to be the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_o f_second-placed_teams and http://www.football-rankings.info/2013/09/2014-fifa-world-cup-seeding-simulations_6.html

The simulation in the latter link was done on the 6th of September and was not inclusive of the games that night; the site had predicted a draw in our game with Sweden.

[geysir]

The Wikipedia Ranking of second-placed teams table is misleading because it includes results against the bottom placed team, in the points total.
There are so many variables but I'm heartedly assured that should Iceland finish second in group E, it's almost certain they will get through to the play-off draw.

I can hear the sound of the samba beat in the distance growing stronger.

[DannyInvincible]

The Wikipedia Ranking of second-placed teams table is misleading because it includes results against the bottom placed team, in the points total.

Have had a quick look through and I'm pretty sure that it's only in Iceland's case has a fixture against the bottom-placed team in their (your?) group - Cyprus - been included in the points tally. Excluding that would leave Iceland on 10 points then in that table.

[geysir]

Actually Danny it was my foolish misunderstanding. The points table is correct and Iceland (my team) have 13 points as stated. 3 of their dropped points came against the now certified bottom team, Cyprus. They were beaten by Cyprus.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Oh, look. We can still 'qualify'.
:rolleyes:
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1381650_10151579106116735_1999082292_n.jpg

[tricky_colour]

I think it was mentioned in another thread that the second-place finisher in our group will most likely end up as the worst second-placed finisher of all nine groups, but such is unlikely to be the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_o f_second-placed_teams and http://www.football-rankings.info/2013/09/2014-fifa-world-cup-seeding-simulations_6.html

The simulation in the latter link was done on the 6th of September and was not inclusive of the games that night; the site had predicted a draw in our game with Sweden.

Maybe that was based on Ireland being the second placed team?

[DannyInvincible]

You'll see from the list that the simulation also calculated the likelihood of Sweden being the worst second-placed finisher. Essentially, it took all teams into account.

[DannyInvincible]

I see Sweden are beating Germany 2-1. They'd been 2-0 up before Özil pulled one back.

[DannyInvincible]

3-2 to Germany now.

[Charlie Darwin]

George just whipped out 'you can never write off the Germans'

It's been a while.