Mons?

[Charlie Darwin]

I can't believe that. It's like Shamrock Rovers raiding the Atletico Madrid side so they can compete at Europa League level.

[Real ale Madrid]

While I agree that Mons have made mistakes, the castigating of them here is over the top.

From what I've read on the thread so far Mons increased wages in line with projections of income over the season. Now as long as those projections were reasonable and on the conservative side, there has been no evidence to the contrary, then is this not a case of hoping for 200/250 extra people per home game through the gates that has not materialised? - Is this unforgivable? Does that make them a disgrace ? Would each and every one of us here made the same reasonable assumption at the start of the season ? Hindsight is the world's best judgement tool. I don't think we know enough about the figures to criticise them as much as people are.

[wonder88]

Would anyone be able to give an indication of what percentage players wages were of overall Monaghan spending (budget) for the season and per week/month. Do fans of other clubs be able to give rough estimate of same for their teams as well. thanks

[Macy]

Now as long as those projections were reasonable and on the conservative side, there has been no evidence to the contrary,
The fact they can't see out the season is evidence enough. If they had a mid season crisis and had to cut wages/ playing staff/ go amateur is one thing, failing to fulfill fixtures is quite another imo.

[Charlie Darwin]

While I agree that Mons have made mistakes, the castigating of them here is over the top.

From what I've read on the thread so far Mons increased wages in line with projections of income over the season. Now as long as those projections were reasonable and on the conservative side, there has been no evidence to the contrary, then is this not a case of hoping for 200/250 extra people per home game through the gates that has not materialised? - Is this unforgivable? Does that make them a disgrace ? Would each and every one of us here made the same reasonable assumption at the start of the season ? Hindsight is the world's best judgement tool. I don't think we know enough about the figures to criticise them as much as people are.
If they were reasonable projections the club would still be in the league. And 250 extra people per home game would be more than a 50% increase for Monaghan. There is no way they would have dreamed of that.

[Dodge]

I posted previously that I was told that Monaghan budgeted for more (multiples of it) in a main sponsorship deal than Pats bring in. Reliable source

If its true than that blows the 'reasonable' myth out of the water.

[Real ale Madrid]

I posted previously that I was told that Monaghan budgeted for more (multiples of it) in a main sponsorship deal than Pats bring in. Reliable source


Many multiples of Pats?

That's not a credible statement to me. Surely someone on the licencing committee can look at that and say - Monaghan are projecting sponsorship money - with a yet unnamed sponsor - and that figure is many multiples of the entire sponsorship of St.Patricks Athletic?

If that was the sort of pie-in-the-sky financial model being employed then you could dismiss Monaghan's claims out of hand - but does anyone really believe that was the sort of thing going on ? Do Monaghan have a history of this type of financial mis-management ????


If they were reasonable projections the club would still be in the league. .


The fact they can't see out the season is evidence enough.

I just wonder if both of you had seen the budget at the start of the season - would you dismiss it out of hand like you are doing now with the benefit of hindsight. You nor I know the details of the budget - yet ye are quick to pass judgement now that its all gone t1ts up.

[Dodge]

€160k was the figure btw

[Real ale Madrid]

€160k was the figure btw

Per season ? or over how many years ?

If Mons were allowed budget for anything near that in a main sponsor than the league is doomed. Licencing will fail.

[Mr A]

Licencing will fail.

That's kind of like saying Greece will need a bailout.

[Dodge]

Licencing will fail.

A club is gone. I think the 'will' bit is a bit optimistic.

It was for main sponsor and ground sponsor apparently

Could be wrong of course

[derm]

Personally the main problem I have is that it doesn't seem to me that everything was attempted to save the club. Fair enough local creditors were not burned but extra financial pressure has been heaped on the other Premier clubs and, in turn, their local creditors. From the outside looking in it seems that Mons gave up too easily, that they looked at the problems, deemed them insurmountable and gave up. I get no impression that every effort, no matter how ridiculous, was made to save the club.

For example, off the top of my head:

Cost Cutting Taken as a given, players allowed to leave, amateurs brought in on expenses or whatever.

Fund Raising 1. There have been collections for other clubs in Turners' Cross in the past and I'm sure in other grounds too. I've bought a Harps prize draw ticket before, were efforts made to fundraise from opposition fans? Granted it wouldn't raise much but it'd be something
2. Assuming they could convince Roddy to stay on, a "Relegate Roddy" fundraiser could have been launched for everyone who'd like to see him go down with the ship for once. A shamefaced gimmick but I'd say it'd get a few bob.

Crowds Not getting them in Monaghan so ... get them elsewhere. Turners' Cross, Tallaght Stadium, The Brandywell are stadia that are not owned by the clubs playing in them. Therefore it may have been possible to cede home advantage against the relevant teams and get much higher gate receipts. Hell, Tallaght could have become a "home" ground against the other Dublin clubs when available. Not an easy thing to organize but many a goalpost could have been shifted in a crisis situation.

Sponsor Less than two thirds of a season to go and with reduced bills a desperate play for a few grand to see them through should have yielded something. 1. Obviously no business saw enough value to a sponsorship deal so Mons would have needed to add value, e.g. With no budget and amateur/youth players Mon's would have done a Galway on it. In fact they'd be a sure bet to go down, fans all over the league may have been interested in betting on how much their team would have beaten Mons by. A quirky ready made advertising campaign for bookies I would have thought.
2. Auction it on eBay (with a reasonable reserve price). Quirky auctions can make it to the national and international media. "'We don't care what logo is on our shirts as long as it is Family Friendly", said a club spokesperson, " it could be a business, a romantic gesture to a loved one or even opposition fans telling us we're rubbish.'"

Yes I know that some of these ideas are crazy and some wouldn't work. Some might have worked but not raised/saved enough. But they represent the last ditch that Mons seem to have refused to even look into.

[Spudulika]

I like what you've put forward Derm, they're ideas that are not too far fetched with realistic chances of achievement. I don't know if Mons would have become whipping boys with amateur players, the coaching stability (for what it was) would have been much better. One thing to address is the coaching staff and their wages, was Roddy prepared to do it for 50quid a week? I don't believe he would have, but who knows.

The idea of playing home games elsewhere is interesting, just glad you didn't throw Dundalk into the mix :-)

[Mr A]

I doubt the FAI would allow you to cede home advantage like that on a regular basis.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Yeah. There'd be a potential issue of some teams having more home games than others, an unfair advantage in a title race for example.

[Schumi]

I doubt the FAI would allow you to cede home advantage like that on a regular basis.
They let Rovers do it a few years ago. They played home games in Turner's Cross and Belfield Park and possibly other places when they couldn't pay the rent for Tolka.

[bluemovie]

2005 First Division Table. Six clubs gone and Dundalk could make it seven.

1 Sligo Rovers 36 15 16 5 45 27 +18 61
2 Dublin City 36 15 14 7 57 34 +23 59
3 Cobh Ramblers 36 15 11 10 49 40 +9 56
4 Kilkenny City 36 15 8 13 46 35 +11 53
5 Galway United 36 14 11 11 46 43 +3 53
6 Dundalk 36 12 13 11 44 40 +4 49
7 Limerick 36 13 9 14 44 49 -5 48
8 Kildare County 36 10 11 15 33 42 -9 41
9 Monaghan United 36 9 9 18 36 66 -30 36
10 Athlone Town 36 6 10 20 28 52 -24 28

[marinobohs]

Personally the main problem I have is that it doesn't seem to me that everything was attempted to save the club. Fair enough local creditors were not burned but extra financial pressure has been heaped on the other Premier clubs and, in turn, their local creditors. From the outside looking in it seems that Mons gave up too easily, that they looked at the problems, deemed them insurmountable and gave up. I get no impression that every effort, no matter how ridiculous, was made to save the club.

For example, off the top of my head:

Cost Cutting Taken as a given, players allowed to leave, amateurs brought in on expenses or whatever.

Fund Raising 1. There have been collections for other clubs in Turners' Cross in the past and I'm sure in other grounds too. I've bought a Harps prize draw ticket before, were efforts made to fundraise from opposition fans? Granted it wouldn't raise much but it'd be something
2. Assuming they could convince Roddy to stay on, a "Relegate Roddy" fundraiser could have been launched for everyone who'd like to see him go down with the ship for once. A shamefaced gimmick but I'd say it'd get a few bob.

Crowds Not getting them in Monaghan so ... get them elsewhere. Turners' Cross, Tallaght Stadium, The Brandywell are stadia that are not owned by the clubs playing in them. Therefore it may have been possible to cede home advantage against the relevant teams and get much higher gate receipts. Hell, Tallaght could have become a "home" ground against the other Dublin clubs when available. Not an easy thing to organize but many a goalpost could have been shifted in a crisis situation.

Sponsor Less than two thirds of a season to go and with reduced bills a desperate play for a few grand to see them through should have yielded something. 1. Obviously no business saw enough value to a sponsorship deal so Mons would have needed to add value, e.g. With no budget and amateur/youth players Mon's would have done a Galway on it. In fact they'd be a sure bet to go down, fans all over the league may have been interested in betting on how much their team would have beaten Mons by. A quirky ready made advertising campaign for bookies I would have thought.
2. Auction it on eBay (with a reasonable reserve price). Quirky auctions can make it to the national and international media. "'We don't care what logo is on our shirts as long as it is Family Friendly", said a club spokesperson, " it could be a business, a romantic gesture to a loved one or even opposition fans telling us we're rubbish.'"

Yes I know that some of these ideas are crazy and some wouldn't work. Some might have worked but not raised/saved enough. But they represent the last ditch that Mons seem to have refused to even look into.

Not 100% sure but I believe the club was not registered as a Limited liability company. Could this have resulted in Directors having a personal responsibility for losses ? That would certainly result in prompt decision making.