Mons?

[Sean South]

What sort of involment had MU in their local community over the past 5-6 years? I dont mean sending a couple of players out to a national school every second month or so. I don't understand how a established club can be so islotated from their community. It's obvious they were with the crowds and lack of sponsors. I guess having a team of Dubs didn't help but did the people running MU alienate themselves?

[Macy]

Pulling out mid season is far worse than going amateur for the remainder of the season and not getting anymore points

I've asked earlier - were attendances down on the previous premier season or last season? It started as the inability to find a sponsor, now there appears to be an attempt to piggy back on dundalkkk's attendance excuse.

[sullanefc]

Pulling out mid season is far worse than going amateur for the remainder of the season and not getting anymore points


This.

[White Horse]

Mons playing a friendly in Oriel this evening.

[Martinho II]

Mons playing a friendly in Oriel this evening.

dont get you. how can mons be playing when the senior team is extinct??:confused:

[bullit]

dont get you. how can mons be playing when the senior team is extinct??:confused:

It was basicaly a training/trial match.Ok it wasn't Mons it was a team made up of ex-Monaghan Utd players.

[Morginho]

Not mons just former players looking for clubs im pretty sure

[White Horse]

Monaghan kit worn. Monaghan United XI then.

[Aaron]

Is it not a case of Monaghan Utd are still a club, but no longer play in the league?

[Martinho II]

Is it not a case of Monaghan Utd are still a club, but no longer play in the league?


very true. but they are a club only for the under 19s and ladies.

[Trainee]

Roddy said last week on MNS that he was still training some of the Monaghan players to keep them fit and was going to organise a game for these players so they can showcase their skills to other clubs in the league

[Mr A]

Ha. I'm sure Dundalk will be right in there to offer them a decent wage and the sort of security that Mons just couldn't.

Roddy logic :)

[Morginho]

Is it not a case of Monaghan Utd are still a club, but no longer play in the league?
Far as I'm aware you don't need to be a Airtricity team to be a football club. White horse, they needed a kit as they had none since there not a team. They could have worn a real madrid replica kit would that have meant they were a Real Madrid XI
Monaghan will still continue to develop talent at schoolboy level as we have been doing for the last few years.

[MagicMon]

Monaghan kit worn. Monaghan United XI then.

Did they take the shirts with them?

[Sean South]

Ah here. You lot disapared over night leaving these young lads with no income and a very uncertain future, and your worried about a few jerseies.

[Morginho]

Yeah Sean cause we just did it for the craic like cause we don't have a sugar daddy

[Ash]

It was basicaly a training/trial match.Ok it wasn't Mons it was a team made up of ex-Monaghan Utd players.

They have played a couple of games, managee by Roddy.
Kinda like the PFAI Trail games in Norway etc

[Sean South]

What has not having a sugar daddy got to do with anything? It's hard for the people who gave so much time and money to Monaghan Utd over the years to see their club fold but worrying about a few jerseies comes across very bitter or tight fisted when the players were left with such a uncertain future, probably with no redundancy and having mortgages or loans to pay. Jeez....

[sullanefc]

Yeah Sean cause we just did it for the craic like cause we don't have a sugar daddy

Galway didn't have a sugar daddy last year. They saw out the season though.

[Magicme]

I cant see who is worrying over a few jerseys....a fan of the club just asked a question! Roddy asked for a kit and he got one coz we will pay our players what they are owed and we are delighted that only 6 or so of them have yet to find clubs so we are happy to assist Roddy in helping those lads out.

Whatever you want to think sullen. If we had stayed in LOI we would have lost everything that everyone has worked years for and left a lot of good businesses who have supported us down the years high and dry. We have a conscience and felt it was the only responsible thing to do. Yeah it sucks for all the other clubs that we have gone mid season but if you were banking on us bringing you loads of money then maybe you should have a look at your figures too.

[sullanefc]

but if you were banking on us bringing you loads of money then maybe you should have a look at your figures too.
Who said anything about you bringing us loads of money??? LOL. The game V mons was probably one of the lowest attended. :D I'd be more annoyed about losing 3 points and 6 goals. But mainly because ye've made a farce of the league.

There will be two weekends now, where all the teams will be playing and CCFC will have no fixture. The Bye weeks were frustrating last year and I thought we were done with them only for mons to re-introduce them. Ye're a disgrace.

[Magicme]

yeah a total disgrace coz we didn't bankrupt ourselves and deny the children of our community a chance to play football.

[Real ale Madrid]

Pulling out mid season is far worse than going amateur for the remainder of the season and not getting anymore points


Far worse for who ? The rest of the league yes ? For monaghan's creditors surely not.

Its actually quite refreshing for a football club to act in a socially responsible manner for a change - so they made mistakes, but people turning on them for trying to make a go of it is a little rich - given the histroy of clubs going bust in this league and history of leaving creditors up and down the country high and dry.

[Real ale Madrid]

Who said anything about you bringing us loads of money??? LOL. The game V mons was probably one of the lowest attended. :D I'd be more annoyed about losing 3 points and 6 goals. But mainly because ye've made a farce of the league.

There will be two weekends now, where all the teams will be playing and CCFC will have no fixture. The Bye weeks were frustrating last year and I thought we were done with them only for mons to re-introduce them. Ye're a disgrace.

Jebus sullane - thats too strong - people in glasshouses and all that. You could be accused of having a short memory at the very least.

[sullanefc]

Jebus sullane - thats too strong - people in glasshouses and all that. You could be accused of having a short memory at the very least.

Short memory? Are you talking about Dublin City? The last team to pull out mid-season?

[Real ale Madrid]

Short memory? Are you talking about Dublin City? The last team to pull out mid-season?

Yes Dublin City, as we have a glorious record of finanical management in Cork.

I remember in the not too distant past only for the good grace of a certain Drogheda United postponing a fixture we would have had to pull out mid season.

Fair enough that Monaghan made mistakes and its a bummer for the league but you have to at least respect the reasons why they have done what they have - calling them a disgrace etc is unwarranted.

[sullanefc]

Yes Dublin City, as we have a glorious record of finanical management in Cork.

I remember in the not too distant past only for the good grace of a certain Drogheda United postponing a fixture we would have had to pull out mid season.

Fair enough that Monaghan made mistakes and its a bummer for the league but you have to at least respect the reasons why they have done what they have - calling them a disgrace etc is unwarranted.
Why not? They've treated the league with contempt. TNB was a disgrace too BTW. We still saw out the season though.

[redobit]

Yes Dublin City, as we have a glorious record of finanical management in Cork.

I remember in the not too distant past only for the good grace of a certain Drogheda United postponing a fixture we would have had to pull out mid season.

Fair enough that Monaghan made mistakes and its a bummer for the league but you have to at least respect the reasons why they have done what they have - calling them a disgrace etc is unwarranted.

Its a bit more than a bummer. We were due to play them after the 2 week break. When they pulled out the club lost a huge chunk of cash on the gate (€15k I have heard a figure of on that game). We only had to play them once at home this season, other clubs would have to play them twice. Just becasue they are out dosent mean wages wont have to be paid for. Galway might have been **** but they fulfilled their fixtures, somthing that Roddy has said he would have liked to have done.

[Real ale Madrid]

Why not? They've treated the league with contempt.

Contempt ? I'm guessing you know the ins and outs of the last few months up there if you can easily make a statement like that. I doubt Mons came to that decision lightly and while I repeat many mistakes were made I doubt any of them were not made in good faith.



TNB was a disgrace too BTW. We still saw out the season though.

I wasn't refering to TNB above but as seen as you have brought him up; - One of the reasons TNB was such a disgrace was the way he left so many club employee's, players and businesses around Cork city and county out of pocket. There were some significant sums of money, not to mention the revenue issues. Monies which will never be recouped.

Fair play to Monaghan for showing some integrity at least and not just continuing to run up debt even as an amateur club.

[Spudulika]

Sullanefc, for pragmatism I admire Mons, as I've stated earlier. They did the right thing for the local creditors and their reputation. This is a situation that happens across the world, here in Russia it's not uncommon. Clubs are realistic and if they mess up or are messed up or run into unexpected difficulties, they fold before they go too far - they don't look to the local government for a digout (like Real) or to rich benefactors (too many to mention) and the supporters simply can't afford to run it themselves. A decent 2nd division (3rd tier) club here needs $1-1.5million for team expenses alone (player and coach wages, travel). Given that most bring in under 5,000 through the gates for a home game and that tickets are less than $3, it doesn't take a genius to work out that unless there are other sources clubs can get in trouble. Some years ago I was looking forward to getting out to Irkutsk and visiting Lake Baikal, the club I was with were going to play them, had put a non-refundable deposit down to hire a plane and then bloody Irkutsk fold and pull out of the league. The reason? Their main source of funding (an airline) went bankrupt and rather than not paying players and other creditors, they shut up shop. Last season Sochi did the same. It's brave, pragmatic, and if it was your club you'd be proud of them acting in such an honourable manner.

Would you rather Mons run up further debts, then leave the local Johns Ambulance or Order of Malta out of pocket?

[sullanefc]

Whats to stop 4 or 5 clubs pulling out of the league with 6-7 games to go and they're out of contention for euro places/title and the finances are looking a bit iffy. Clubs could simply throw their hat at it if things aren't going their way and then rejoin next season. The league could be cut down to 7-8 clubs for the end of the season. Would mons have pulled out if they were top of the league? My eye.

My gripe is one of sporting integrity. If mons run up debts, fine. Go amateur and pay them back the following season. The reality is though, they should not even have applied to the league if they could not pay their way this year.

[MagicMon]

Ah here. You lot disapared over night leaving these young lads with no income and a very uncertain future, and your worried about a few jerseies.

I phrased the original question badly I suppose, what I meant was did the players buy their own kit, or did they have the jerseys during the mid-season break and just kept them, or was it supplied by MUFC or the PFAI? MagicMe answered that the club gave Roddy kit for the game. I hope McGuinness acknowledges that the next time he goes off on one during MNS or on twitter.

Re: an earlier question about community outreach, I'm certain I saw stuff in the Northern Standard about primary school coaching in the county, and Gortakeegan is used for things like the Blackwater 10k run. Remember too that this is thick GAA country, I know that the biggest boys secondary school in the town (ie the main target audience) had (has?) a big pro-GAA/anti-soccer bias at the official level. The club didn't give up but you definitely have to acknowledge that certain people would actively block attempts by Monaghan United to increase its profile (its a factor but not a total excuse).

Just interesting to see again the football bubble, where the goal difference of Cork is more important than the debts to local businesses. Maybe this is the thing that is holding Irish football back, too much Me Fein-ism (I suppose I'd be guilty of it too) and too little long-term, bigger picture thinking?

[sullanefc]

where the goal difference of Cork is more important than the debts to local businesses.
Sporting integrity. If the local businesses meant so much to mons then they shouldn't have entered the league this year with such a budget.

[SkStu]

youre being ridiculously harsh sullanefc. Since Olliebourne, no club enters a season of football with negative intent and the FAI has veto over proposed budgetary submissions if they feel they are weak or unsubstantiated.

"the best laid plans of mice and mons" and all that. Sometimes sh1t happens.

[sullanefc]

the FAI has veto over proposed budgetary submissions if they feel they are weak or unsubstantiated.

Anybody running a business (i.e. mons board) should have the cop on not to run with a weak or unsubstantiated budget, and should not be depending on the FAI to give them the nod. That said, the FAI are not innocent in all this.

[Mr A]

Football isn't like other businesses. There are more variables and it genuinely is very difficult. MUFC have a good record of getting it right, but this year things went wrong and they decided to protect the club overall rather than the league. Unfortunate but understandable.

[Morginho]

Whats your gripe Sullanfc? Seem to be on a vendetta there lad.
If we were able to sustain league football we would have, not as if we just got together and said "ah sure we'll pull out will we, weren't able to afford tea bags today"

[Spudulika]

Anybody running a business (i.e. mons board) should have the cop on not to run with a weak or unsubstantiated budget, and should not be depending on the FAI to give them the nod. That said, the FAI are not innocent in all this.

Answer this then, the club have everything agreed, budget works etc. Suddenly the main employer in a town goes out of business, what then? Go amateur? Do you know how much it costs to run an amateur club?

[redarmyfaction]

There has been some talk about Monaghan facing up to their debts with local creditors which leads me to ask how much can they have owed to local businesses? the Mondogs suppliers excepted.

[Terry]

Answer this then, the club have everything agreed, budget works etc. Suddenly the main employer in a town goes out of business, what then? Go amateur? Do you know how much it costs to run an amateur club?

Surely you would have asked for cash upfront knowing that this senario could happen in the current climate?

[Spudulika]

Terry, I've yet to deal with a sponsor who'll pay cash up front, even in good times (when the sum is more than 3 figures). Normally it's paid in installments.

[Morginho]

Exactly Spud
Remember a budget for a season is only an estimate nothing is set in stone. Sponsors would be expected being on TV(not great) every week and having half decent crowds. Just didn't happen I'm afraid with the current climate and location of the club?

[Dodge]

Just didn't happen I'm afraid with the current climate ?

The same climate as the last 4 years. That can't be a surprise to anybody any more.

No one is saying there aren't mitagating factors in play, but no one can deny Mons board over stretched. And given what's happened to many LOI clubs in recent years, thats pretty unforgivable.

[Morginho]

But theres a big difference financially being in the Premier Div compared to First Division. Higher wages, licensing, etc. In a place like Monaghan crowds won't grow to match these costs so your always going to be at a loss. You'd need min 1000 per home match for it to be sustainable and that just wasn't happening. Plus look at the money you get for your finishing place in the PL compared to the enterance fee???

[Macy]

Just didn't happen I'm afraid with the current climate and location of the club?
I can see how the recent move, and the sudden economic crash this year caught ye out alright.

[Morginho]

*Error to much sarcasm* CRASH

[Dodge]

But theres a big difference financially being in the Premier Div compared to First Division. Higher wages, licensing, etc. In a place like Monaghan crowds won't grow to match these costs so your always going to be at a loss. You'd need min 1000 per home match for it to be sustainable and that just wasn't happening. Plus look at the money you get for your finishing place in the PL compared to the enterance fee???

Why higher wages. You set the wages, not the division. See, this is the problem we're talking about

[Morginho]

Well if you don't up your wages even a little you can't attract PL quality players to try and stay in the Division. You don't start the season saying right we're going to sign a load of amateurs and just survive this season. Obviously we didn't know at the beginning that this would happen

[Macy]

You set your playing budget on realistic figures to see out the season in a reasonable state. I can't believe anyone would defend what happened with trying to be competitive when it killed your senior team. It's mindboggling to be honest.

[bluewhitearmy]

Well if you don't up your wages even a little you can't attract PL quality players to try and stay in the Division. You don't start the season saying right we're going to sign a load of amateurs and just survive this season. Obviously we didn't know at the beginning that this would happen


Yes you do if there is any chance that anything else would kill your club.