A Couple of Questions Re Dundalk

[Lim till i die]

Following on from this (http://www.dundalkfc.com/matthews-explains-change-in-club-structure) interview what's the story up here at the moment??

Also standout quote for me:


With a budget of over €7,000 per week being spent on the first-team squad, Matthews was asked if that would be sustainable going forward.

I've seen Dundalks squad.

What in the name of Jebus are they spending over SEVEN GRAND a week on?? :eek:

When I heard they were making cut backs and then saw the signings I assumed we were talking more two to three grand a week!!

[nigel-harps1954]

7 grand a week?! What? Holy jesus that's a lot of money..

[Spudulika]

I said it at the time of the "sale" and was shouted down by his cheerleaders, it's all a game, and a dangerous one. How on earth they're spending 7k a week on wages yet have a team of kids. Greatly fearing for Dundalk FC right now.

What makes it all look worse is the Trust statement. http://www.dundalkfc.com/dfc-trust-statement-2

[L.T.F.C.]

Holy ****. The numbers I heard in Limerick were similarly shocking though!

[Spudulika]

From reports and statements, Limerick can sustain it (they've an oligarch owner), plus they've got backing to move to a new ground etc. Instead GM is looking, still, to offload the football club and hang onto "Oriel Active" or GM's FunPalace. Really depressing.

[Mr A]

I think Oligarch might be going a bit far! But yeah, the indications so far are that Limerick should be ok I think.

I think the point here is what are Dundalk spending their money on? At least at Limerick they've assembled a good squad.

[thomas72]

i dont know if any other teams had to do this but the FAI for a few seasons has demanded limerick fc put up a huge sum of money before they were allowed kick a ball 250,000 was asked up front last season i dont know about this season prob the same.

[Sonny]

The LOI really is like the neverending story. There should be a concerted effort to rid clubs of the various "philanthropists", spoofers and shysters that have been killing the game for decades.

[Battery Rover]

i dont know if any other teams had to do this but the FAI for a few seasons has demanded limerick fc put up a huge sum of money before they were allowed kick a ball 250,000 was asked up front last season i dont know about this season prob the same.

That is a stipulation of licensing every club has to do if their budget meets certain criteria.

[Lim till i die]

I just came in to confirm for everyone that Limericks' playing budget is nowhere near 7000 a week.

Thanks. :ball:

[osarusan]

Add on at least a couple of zeros.

[A face]

That is a stipulation of licensing every club has to do if their budget meets certain criteria.

Possibly is but i think there was extra asked of Limerick at the time. It was going above and beyond asking for a bond as was asked at clubs before. Cant remember the details right now but it raised eyebrows at the time alright.

[Sam_Heggy]

Add on at least a couple of zeros.

Argh, you beat me to it.

[Macy]

That is a stipulation of licensing every club has to do if their budget meets certain criteria.
Well hopefully they have to put up the money these days, rather than none binding undertakings they've allowed through licencing in the past (most notably with Cork).

[bluemovie]

What in the name of Jebus are they spending over SEVEN GRAND a week on?? :eek:

Judging by the state of him at Waterford last year, I'd say it's about six grand on pies and burgers for Michael Rafter and the rest on wages?

[HomerJay]

Clubs not in a good way at all now. :(:(

[mcgonigle]

Judging by the state of him at Waterford last year, I'd say it's about six grand on pies and burgers for Michael Rafter and the rest on wages?

Actually been one of our better players so far, puts in a good shift and is tricky, needs to start scoring though. Certainly not overweight!

[oriel]

I think the point here is what are Dundalk spending their money on? At least at Limerick they've assembled a good squad.

100% agree, McCaffrey recruited some terrible players in and starting off with no proven striker was a huge mistake. He's looking like an even bigger mistake now though.

[PartySaint]

You know a club is f*cked when Ian Foster leaves and they get WORSE.

[cob655]

God, 7k really!!! At the start of the season we were told it was going to be 2-3k per week, i thought the team was doing ok,just ok for 2-3k per week,but seeing that its actually 7k, it just goes to show McCaffrey doesnt have a clue how much a player should be getting paid in this league, or maybe he doesnt care and is just looking after the players who played for him at internation level before...

[bullit]

The managment wages are included in the €7+k,not that it makes too much of a difference :( McCaff got the go-ahead from the DFC board(since disbanded) to build a young squad that would serve the club well for years for years to come,he forgot that to be competitive in this leauge you might have to mix and match youth with experience! He brought the youth in alright but he forgot to sign the experienced players.

The next few weeks will be very interesting here and i would reckon that if we haven't improved our position points wise and goal wise by the end of the Dundalk v Monaghan United game(18/5/12) then Sean McCaff will be just another failed managment statisic up here in Oriel.

[Nesta99]

I said it at the time of the "sale" and was shouted down by his cheerleaders, it's all a game, and a dangerous one. How on earth they're spending 7k a week on wages yet have a team of kids. Greatly fearing for Dundalk FC right now.

What makes it all look worse is the Trust statement. http://www.dundalkfc.com/dfc-trust-statement-2

A playing budget is settled on and then increased - who do you reckon were the sensible frugle members of the board disagreeing with an increase - trust members or others? A split at board level happens resulting in GM riding in to save the day again, how nice of him:rolleyes:
As GM is the owner he can do what he likes, i am surprised he authorised such a playing budget rather than him pushing minimal amount

[Dodge]

What in the name of Jebus are they spending over SEVEN GRAND a week on?? :eek:


Pitch maintenance. That FIFA grade doesn't look after itself

Dundalk are the worst tem e've played so far. And McCaffrey looks clueless in any interviews I've seen. granted thats not the best criteria for judging a manager but what else can I go on?

[bullit]

Pitch maintenance. That FIFA grade doesn't look after itself....


Brazil....sorry, St. Pat's:rolleyes: won on the FIFA graded pitch up here but Bucks has had a go at the pitches that they didn't win on.He never mentions the pitch that yee won on funny enough.


LIAM BUCKLEY believes that "crap" pitches in the League of Ireland are harming his side's ability to play quality football.

A frustrating scoreless draw away to Drogheda United last Friday was the fourth draw in five games for Pats this season and in five away games in all competitions so far in 2012, the Saints have managed just one win.

"Some clubs are making an effort (to improve pitches) but I don't understand how some teams can train at their home stadiums," said Buckley. "If you're training and playing matches on the same pitch, the surface doesn't get a chance to recover and that's very frustrating.

"I look at the pitch in Drogheda, I look at Dalymount Park and Tolka Park and all three of them are crap.

"You could have had Manchester United playing on that pitch last Friday and they would have struggled to pass the ball. I'm not just saying that because we drew, but it's a fact and hopefully all of these pitches will improve as the season goes on," added Buckley, who admitted that his club's run of draws is a worry.........

"We've had a few draws now and that's not great, we just need to get some consistency into our game, and we need to turn draws into wins," he said, as Pats prepare for their next test at home to UCD next Friday.

."

Moany hole Bucks seems to have taken over were moany hole Pete left off :p
"its not us,its the fooking pitches" ;)

[Dodge]

Brazil....sorry, St. Pat's:rolleyes: won on the FIFA graded pitch up here but Bucks has had a go at the pitches that they didn't win on.He never mentions the pitch that yee won on funny enough.

I'm not Buckley. I think your pitch is atrocious. I'm happy we have a brilliant record on it

Now back to where you're peeing your 7k a week away

[bullit]

I'm not Buckley. I think your pitch is atrocious. I'm happy we have a brilliant record on it

Now back to where you're peeing your 7k a week away

Of course you are right(but you sound like a mix of Bucks and MacMahon :D),what is Pats budget again??
My answer on our budget is above ^^ and stands as.

[Dodge]

Ah the old 'he's from club x, let's try and defend my club by having a pop at his' technique. Classic on these forums

Don't know Pats budget. I'd guess it'd be 3rd highest in the league. Still can't find the relevence to Dundalk spending 7k on an untested management team, a couple of OK players and a bunch of kids

[Spudulika]

Getting away from pitch issues (weren't they supposed to be resolved anyway?) - the total budget, if on playing and coaching staff, is not outrageous, can be seen as sustainable (40 weeks x 7k = 280k), and Dundalk can cover it. GM messing with everyone's heads before the season started was a joke, it was almost TNB except he did a 3 card trick with the Trust and in their decency and love for the club, they went with it. Now he's looking to offload the "football" side of the club - basically hanging onto everything he can - including the bars etc. He's destroyed hopes of investment in the club to get what he wants. The club is dying a death and still they re-arrange the deckchairs.

[marinobohs]

Ah the old 'he's from club x, let's try and defend my club by having a pop at his' technique. Classic on these forums

Don't know Pats budget. I'd guess it'd be 3rd highest in the league. Still can't find the relevence to Dundalk spending 7k on an untested management team, a couple of OK players and a bunch of kids

As ever with these figures it depends very much on what the figure covers, if it is just players 7 K does seem pretty high (given the calibre of players in the squad) but if manager/asst manager, physio and (possibly) coach(s) are included it may not be that bad.

On the Oriel pitch, despite Bohs OK record there in recent years I never eally liked it as a football surface although I would acknowledge the rationale Dundalk invoked in opting to use it.

[SkStu]

Don't know Pats budget. I'd guess it'd be 3rd highest in the league. Still can't find the relevence to Dundalk spending 7k on an untested management team, a couple of OK players and a bunch of kids

Jaysus..... You seem to know everything else in the world about everything but you don't know your own teams budget.... Hmmmmm.....

[marinobohs]

Jaysus..... You seem to know everything else in the world about everything but you don't know your own teams budget.... Hmmmmm.....

most clubs pay rates for players would be kept fairly quiet (sometimes even from board members) for confidentiality reasons and most figures for individual players earnings are speculation at best. Global spend figures can cover various "playing" costs (manager etc)


Anyway I doubt very much anyone that did know would come onto a public forum and say my club is paying XXXXXXX amount to such and such a player(s) :rolleyes:

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm slightly alarmed anyone would actually believe Dundalk are spending 7k a week on player wages. I know this league never fails to surprise but sometimes you hear something so outstandingly unlikely that only a fool would take it seriously.

I'd say McCaffrey is on a very decent wedge consider his experience and most recent employer.

[Sam_Heggy]

I'm slightly alarmed anyone would actually believe Dundalk are spending 7k a week on player wages. I know this league never fails to surprise but sometimes you hear something so outstandingly unlikely that only a fool would take it seriously.

I'd say McCaffrey is on a very decent wedge consider his experience and most recent employer.

We had a €13k a week budget in '08, we've been struggling in the 1st Division since '09.

Pretty self explanatory.

[oriel]

Dundalk are the worst tem e've played so far.

Re the 2-0 away win for Pats last month, that was our first home game, and I said to my mate after the match that it was the worst opening home game performance in my 30 yrs going. So I can see how you could have made that opinion. Quite appaling actually when I look back how poor we were.

[bullit]

Getting away from pitch issues (weren't they supposed to be resolved anyway?) - the total budget, if on playing and coaching staff, is not outrageous, can be seen as sustainable (40 weeks x 7k = 280k), and Dundalk can cover it. GM messing with everyone's heads before the season started was a joke, it was almost TNB except he did a 3 card trick with the Trust and in their decency and love for the club, they went with it. Now he's looking to offload the "football" side of the club - basically hanging onto everything he can - including the bars etc. He's destroyed hopes of investment in the club to get what he wants. The club is dying a death and still they re-arrange the deckchairs.

What a load of ballix!! You don't know what you are talking about if you are comparing Gerry Matthews to TNB.
GM is back as a reluctant head of affairs beacause the board that was appointed wasn't fit nor able to do the required job in his absense.Indeed it was the board that asked GM to step back into the breach.

[Guinney]

Getting away from pitch issues (weren't they supposed to be resolved anyway?) - the total budget, if on playing and coaching staff, is not outrageous, can be seen as sustainable (40 weeks x 7k = 280k), and Dundalk can cover it. GM messing with everyone's heads before the season started was a joke, it was almost TNB except he did a 3 card trick with the Trust and in their decency and love for the club, they went with it. Now he's looking to offload the "football" side of the club - basically hanging onto everything he can - including the bars etc. He's destroyed hopes of investment in the club to get what he wants. The club is dying a death and still they re-arrange the deckchairs.

You should go to one of the supporter meetings set up by the club where you will meet Gerry Matthews and the general manager Paul Johnston. They have been running all this week and some more are on next week. All season ticket holders got phone calls to arrange a suitable time to meet and anyone else who has an interest are invited to intend them. GM wants to the fans to get more involved in the club.

I don't think GM has any intention of messing with peoples head's or hanging onto the clubs bars and so on. But that said the club could be in a much better position on and off the field.

[Spudulika]

What a load of ballix!! You don't know what you are talking about if you are comparing Gerry Matthews to TNB.
GM is back as a reluctant head of affairs beacause the board that was appointed wasn't fit nor able to do the required job in his absense.Indeed it was the board that asked GM to step back into the breach.

Seems that you're doing your best to defend the indefensible, I hope the comparison to TNB is ott, truly, but don't try to say that the situation the "board" too over was in any way stable. I know you're only doing your job, but don't try to promote the idea that there was a stable situation for the board to come into. Any solid plan was rubbished last Autumn because of the farce surrounding the playhouse and bar licences, plus the ever increasing circle of debt.

Guinney - I went to a meeting last Autumn, sat quietly and watched and listened. I saw real commitment from all concerned (even GM and PJ) but completely diverging goals. I don't believe GM came into the situation in any other way than to do something decent for the club and town (which he did) but that once the crisis hit, his own bottom line was dragged down and as we all know the demands of supporters of our club outweigh the real world. Unless we have 500 people willing to pay 50e a month over 2-3 years, we're not going to be knocking on the door of the Europa League Group Stages for a wee while yet.

[dong]

Great to see the levels of concern for another club.

[Spudulika]

Great to see the levels of concern for another club.

Hey, don't laugh too hard dong, soon it'll be your guys turn again! Then Bohs, then......is there any club that hasn't been rounded on at some point?

[redobit]

Hey, don't laugh too hard dong, soon it'll be your guys turn again! Then Bohs, then......is there any club that hasn't been rounded on at some point?

Probably Pats!. Never too much said about their finances? Granted I dont know what their budget is but it assumed that they have the 3rd largest budget in the league and with pretty average attendances, well ... ...

[SkStu]

Probably Pats!. Never too much said about their finances? Granted I dont know what their budget is but it assumed that they have the 3rd largest budget in the league and with pretty average attendances, well ... ...

They were in big trouble a few years ago. got themselves out of immediate danger though pretty quick, fair play.

In this league, every team is potentially weeks away from disaster... except UCD.

[Charlie Darwin]

Pats are probably unique in this league as they had a genuine millionaire sugar daddy as opposed to an endless mesh of bank loans, and he left the club without a stack of debt in spite of his own losses.

[wonder88]

Does Kelleher still own Pats ? A very interesting guy into films now along with religion, but of course his property business is totally bust so would the banks (Anglo-Irish mostly) not have a claim on Pats and Richmond Park ?

[marinobohs]

They were in big trouble a few years ago. got themselves out of immediate danger though pretty quick, fair play.

In this league, every team is potentially weeks away from disaster... except UCD.

Think the big trouble they were in was Kelleher ceasing to bankroll the team. Dramatically cut the wage bill a couple of years back letting most of the squad go.
Pats appear the most stable club in LOI (hardly a major achievement) and have no rental commitments or historical liabilities. Their persistent refusal to win anything in recent years has also saved them a fortune in polish :o

[Charlie Darwin]

Does Kelleher still own Pats ? A very interesting guy into films now along with religion, but of course his property business is totally bust so would the banks (Anglo-Irish mostly) not have a claim on Pats and Richmond Park ?
If you were a bank manager would you want Richmond Park?

Kelleher does own the club. The banks could conceivably force him to sell the club but they would have no claim on the club itself or the ground.

[PartySaint]

Does Kelleher still own Pats ? A very interesting guy into films now along with religion, but of course his property business is totally bust so would the banks (Anglo-Irish mostly) not have a claim on Pats and Richmond Park ?

Yes he still owns the cub but no the banks can't get their hands on the club or the ground.

[Dodge]

Few things...


Jaysus..... You seem to know everything else in the world about everything but you don't know your own teams budget.... Hmmmmm.....
I know Bohs budget because I was told by someone who should know. I know what some players are on at a variety of clubs, including Pats (because I either know them, or know mates of theres).

I've heard rumours about every club, much like yourself I'm sure. I have never claimed to know Pats budget (this season) either btw


Re the 2-0 away win for Pats last month, that was our first home game, and I said to my mate after the match that it was the worst opening home game performance in my 30 yrs going. So I can see how you could have made that opinion. Quite appaling actually when I look back how poor we were.

Well thats just it. Can only go on waht I've seen. Dundalk beating Derry was a massive shock to me, as I couldn't see where Dundalk would get goals. I've no doubt some Bohs fans have similarly poor views on pats as we were awful against them




Does Kelleher still own Pats ? A very interesting guy into films now along with religion, but of course his property business is totally bust so would the banks (Anglo-Irish mostly) not have a claim on Pats and Richmond Park ?

Still chairman. He has plenty of companies. Without getting too much into it, Pats can't really be touched, and Richmond Park certainly can't. Not an ideal situation for him, but some of his companies still very profitable (others are gone completely)


Their persistent refusal to win anything in recent years has also saved them a fortune in polish :o

That bleeding Leinter Senior Cup will kill us...

[wonder88]

Is the ownership of the ground/club in a trust so that Kelleher can't sell it ? Who runs the club and who are they answerable to ?
I suppose the "genuine millionaire" may not have to return the money he got out from Anglo-Irish Bank as the irish state has already kindly put up the dosh to cover losses in said bank. Now if only the Swiss people could only cover Zurick Bank for their loan to Bohs we would all be sorted.

[Dodge]

Is the ownership of the ground/club in a trust so that Kelleher can't sell it ? Who runs the club and who are they answerable to ?
yes(ish)/no. paid employees, answerable to Kelleher


I suppose the "genuine millionaire" may not have to return the money he got out from Anglo-Irish Bank as the irish state has already kindly put up the dosh to cover losses in said bank.
Hopefully. Does that make us 'the club of the people'?

[Charlie Darwin]

Wasn't Kelleher trying to build apartments around Richmond a couple of years ago? It's all moot now because I don't think anybody would dream of buying Richmond for any kind of residential building nowadays.

Kelleher owns and chairs Pat's through a company called Newtonheath, presumably named after the old Manchester United: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/1209/1224308796081.html