A Couple of Questions Re Dundalk

[osarusan]

T
THere actually stopping teams from making money to survive E.G not allowing Limerick fc to play the greatest footballing team of all time at a 26,000 sell out thomond park would of made the club 250,000k and again this summer stopped a top tournament going ahead at thomond park with Celtic, man city etc etc because it could interfere with the AivA tournament which were a month apart. THings like that these cowboys are doing preventing teams making money and they wonder then why are clubs folding idiots. RAnt over.
As far as I know, this year's Thomond tournament wouldn't have made a penny for Limerick or any LOI club.

[Dodge]

THere are prob 4 teams in the whole country that are financialy sound shamrock rovers, sligo, st pats, LimeRick
Pats are living month to month. So are Sligo. Rovers would've lost a decent chunk last year if it wasn't for European money. Every club is 1 or 2 decisions from being in really big trouble.


again this summer stopped a top tournament going ahead at thomond park with Celtic, man city etc etc because it could interfere with the AivA tournament which were a month apart. THings like that these cowboys are doing preventing teams making money and they wonder then why are clubs folding idiots. RAnt over.

Nobody in irish football would've profitted from that tournament. played on a rugby ground by 4 foreign teams with all money to a private company. No way should that be allowed

[bluewhitearmy]

I wouldn't be touting us either in the financially sound thing as its not like that is a route that clubs can take but are choosing not to we are in a very very lucky position right now.

[outspoken]

hate to say it but I can't see Dundalk turning this one around, it's been a well known fact for months now that they are sinking. Perhaps they should just let all the players go and play with the youngsters, their u-19 team ain'tbad, I know it wouldn't be good enough to keep them up but i'd much rather my team play in the first division next year than not play at all, what do ye think?

[marinobohs]

hate to say it but I can't see Dundalk turning this one around, it's been a well known fact for months now that they are sinking. Perhaps they should just let all the players go and play with the youngsters, their u-19 team ain'tbad, I know it wouldn't be good enough to keep them up but i'd much rather my team play in the first division next year than not play at all, what do ye think?

Would releasing all their players solve the problem ? likely to decimate home gates and scare away any potential investors (however unlikely).

Paying players wages are no longer the source of all the financial problems at LOI clubs.

PS best of luck to those involved with Dundalk, hope they can find a solution and keep the club afloat.

[Dodge]

Would releasing all their players solve the problem ? likely to decimate home gates and scare away any potential investors (however unlikely).
Judging by thefigures in the statement they're down to the hardest of hardcores now anyway. Can't see those leaving because the club has to release Chris Shields or someone similar


Paying players wages are no longer the source of all the financial problems at LOI clubs.
if Dundalk are paying the reported 7k on salaries, then thats a huge issue


PS best of luck to those involved with Dundalk, hope they can find a solution and keep the club afloat.
Agree 100%

[Dunny]

Budget will be cut to 4k

[Trainee]

Budget will be cut to 4k

Is that to run the club for a week or is it playing budget of 4k a week?

[Dodge]

Budget will be cut to 4k

Stll more than Bohs...

[Morginho]

Monaghan were on less than that i think

[Lim till i die]

Depends what you mean by financially sound. For example, we're not flush with cash but most of our long term debt has been cleared and we're breaking even or making a small profit the last few years.

Tbh I'm always very skeptical about this "clubs are making a small profit" angle that is often pushed (mainly by Fran Gavin.)

I just don't see it and I suspect it's probably more to do with the way the budgets set by the FAI are being structured.

Like take a medium sized club like a Longford. No offence Longford fans these are very rough figures!

Outgoings every month:

Wages: 15,000
Officials: 1,500
Insurance: 1,500
Travel: 1,500

That's 19,500 and I have left out an absolute ball of stuff there as you can all see

Income every month:

Gate Receipts: 5,000 (I'm being generous here)
Sponsorship: 3,000 (again I think I'm being quite generous)

That's 8,000 and granted I am leaving some stuff out on this side as well I'm sure.

Where's the shortfall being made up??

The way I see the league there's one club being ran by a shady cabal of eccentric billionaires (Limerick), a few clubs living month to month (Shamrock, Sligo, Pats, Cork) and other the rest are living week to week.

On whether or not a club like Dundalk should cut back to the bare bones, I've did a few exercises in the past (what an exciting life I lead) and there's actually a fairly fine balance to be struck. An awful lot of expenses are fixed and putting out an all amateur team for example doesn't necessarily save the money you'd think it would.

[Spudulika]

Even if Dundalk release the senior pros, sell whoever they can, and have kids playing for 50e a week expenses, you're still looking at a bill of about 2k a week (staff and players). The bigger debts are the ones that were hidden, manipulated and messed about with by the owner. Coupled to that the fact that he "gave up" hosting events in his fun factory because of the hassle involved (when the fun factory was meant to help towards the running of the club) and you've a situation where there's a mountain of debt crushing the club. The biggest sticking points for anyone coming in are: a) who funded the GM fun factory, b) how much is actually owed by the club, c) how to get rid of the current owner and his fun factory, actually that's just 3 things. Clubs in Ireland are always going to struggle and when the owner wants out (and fair dues he did rescue the club and give the ground a facelift) after hopes and reality not matching up, it's a long, slow, cruel wind down. Dundalk pulling out of the league now is not going to be too far fetched.

[Longfordian]

Tbh I'm always very skeptical about this "clubs are making a small profit" angle that is often pushed (mainly by Fran Gavin.)

I just don't see it and I suspect it's probably more to do with the way the budgets set by the FAI are being structured.

Like take a medium sized club like a Longford. No offence Longford fans these are very rough figures!

Outgoings every month:

Wages: 15,000
Officials: 1,500
Insurance: 1,500
Travel: 1,500

That's 19,500 and I have left out an absolute ball of stuff there as you can all see

Income every month:

Gate Receipts: 5,000 (I'm being generous here)
Sponsorship: 3,000 (again I think I'm being quite generous)

That's 8,000 and granted I am leaving some stuff out on this side as well I'm sure.

Where's the shortfall being made up??

The way I see the league there's one club being ran by a shady cabal of eccentric billionaires (Limerick), a few clubs living month to month (Shamrock, Sligo, Pats, Cork) and other the rest are living week to week.

On whether or not a club like Dundalk should cut back to the bare bones, I've did a few exercises in the past (what an exciting life I lead) and there's actually a fairly fine balance to be struck. An awful lot of expenses are fixed and putting out an all amateur team for example doesn't necessarily save the money you'd think it would.
Wages are more like €10k a month or less. We've two excellent sponsors that bring about €50k p.a all in all and a chairman that has a few quid if needs be. On a smaller scale than your chairman but he's still a multi millionaire from what I know. We won't be flush but we'll survive.

[L.T.F.C.]

Wages are more like €10k a month or less. We've two excellent sponsors that bring about €50k p.a all in all and a chairman that has a few quid if needs be. On a smaller scale than your chairman but he's still a multi millionaire from what I know. We won't be flush but we'll survive.
Its more than €50k as far as I know.

[Lim till i die]

Wages are more like €10k a month or less.

€2500 a week all in?? Players and staff??

I ain't buying it.

Rest of your post kind of backs up my point aswell.






Anyway......... Dundalk, crises, Gerry Matthews, YDC, etc, etc.

[Sam_Heggy]

€2500 a week all in?? Players and staff??

I ain't buying it.

+1

Not a hope.

[Longfordian]

I honestly don't know for sure, it may be around €3k a week including the staff I suppose but it isn't much more than that anyway from everything I've heard to date. Anyway, back on topic as you say..

[Spudulika]

On topic, so we're cutting the budget by 2k per week, coach not happy. But the main men are just hanging on in there hoping for something to happen. Shocking.

[bullit]

Dundalk FC Trust statement -


http://www.dundalkfc.com/dfc-community-trust-statement


In the past week, the DFC Trust formally became a legal entity registered with the Company Registrations Office. As part of this process, the DFC Trust was required to change its name to the Dundalk FC Community Trust.
The DFC Community Trust recently met with Mr Gerry Matthews regarding the future of Dundalk Football Club. In this meeting, Mr Matthews re-iterated that he is not going to renew the license for the club for the 2013 season.
As of the evening of Tuesday 3rd July, the DFC Community Trust is the only group that have met with the club to discuss the feasibility of a takeover. Following our meeting, we are awaiting information vital to our due diligence ahead of such a takeover that we expect shortly.
We are continuing to hold meetings and establish contact with the major stakeholders in this process.
This process will ensure that all options are examined to safeguard the future of League of Ireland football in Dundalk. The DFC Community Trust are leaving all options open regarding whether to proceed with a full takeover directly or in partnership with others.
As we are now a legal entity, we will be beginning the process of consultation with supporters in the very near future. We will have more details on this as soon as possible.

[Mr A]

So basically this is an ultimatum- either somebody takes this club off my hands or I shut it down at the end of the season?

[Battery Rover]

Seems to be rumours doing the rounds that it may end in as little as 48 hours. Hopefully they are just rumours.

[Dunny]

#LMFM (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23LMFM) #LOI (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23LOI) It's feared that Dundalk FC are on the brink.The situation is said to be critical.Dundalk have been in the league since 1926


#LMFM (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23LMFM) #LOI (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23LOI) Reports this morning suggest that the future of Dundalk FC Is looking very precarious.

.....

[White Horse]

End game fast approaching.

The prospect of another team withdrawing from the league looms.

[Magicme]

Really hope you pull through. Gutted for you fans if you don't.

[Mr A]

Holy crap! Didn't think it was that bad. Crazy situation, and it has been very difficult to work out what the hell is actually going on there.

[White Horse]

Really hope you pull through. Gutted for you fans if you don't.

Thanks for that.

When there is complete breakdown between the owner and the fans, there is only one inevitablity.

The situation is very comparable to Cork a couple of years ago. The main difference is that Cork's debt was down to paying inflated wages while Dundalk's is due to building a development centre.

The development centre cannot be separated from the club due to legal issues regarding the lease of the ground.

If the issue was just the team, the supporters trust would have already taken over.

[thomas72]

Sorry to hear this news sickned for dundalk fans the whole league of Ireland structure needs reviewing its a shambles if john delanely can drag himself out of Dublin nightclubs and sort this mess out.

[fionnsci]

I wonder are the FAI attempting to do anything? The situation is beyond a joke. Really hope Dundalk pull through.

[White Horse]

I wonder are the FAI attempting to do anything? The situation is beyond a joke. Really hope Dundalk pull through.

To be fair to the FAI, we got ourselves into this mess.

The owner thought he would get a lot of grants towards building a development centre for football in the north east. The economy went down the toilet and rather than abandoning the project, he put his own money into building it. A big business mistake on his part. Now he has lost interest in the club and wants out.

There are several parties interested in buying the club but none have the cash to buy the development centre.

Unless the FAI want to buy a regional development centre, I don't see what they can do.

[Mr A]

So are we looking at a New Dundalk looking to buy the current clubs assets and apply to the league next season?

[White Horse]

So are we looking at a New Dundalk looking to buy the current clubs assets and apply to the league next season?

That would be the plan. However, there will be a legal issue over the development centre that could cause the liquidation to be a draw-out affair.

[Comic Book Guy]

Hope you guys pull through, always enjoyed my visits to you. There's something seriously the matter with club football in this country if the 2nd most successful club are in jeopardy. Really hope your supporters trust can turn things around.

[Dodge]

Hope you guys pull through, always enjoyed my visits to you. There's something seriously the matter with club football in this country if the 2nd most successful club are in jeopardy. Really hope your supporters trust can turn things around.

While I desperately hope that Dundalk survive, I don't think 'club football in this country' can be blamed for a chairman doing the sort of shennagins he seems to have done

[Jofspring]

It would be awful to see Dundalk go out also.

Is it a case of if crowds were higher (by maybe 1,000 or so) then it could have been avoided or was this situation inevitable anyway?

Getting closer and closer to one division whether people like it or not.

[Spudulika]

Jofspring, Dodge is too close to the mark, doesn't matter if it was a sell out week in, week out, money was drained from the club and so much bad blood built up that there was no way back. When you have a group flying in to take over the club and give a share of things to the trust, with what the owner wanted all along (to be left with his "moneymaker") and a proper deal in place to save the club last October, and this after 2 other bids put to the owner, it all looks a total mess. What I've heard this evening is that Dundalk will be gone by the end of this week (figures with the 48hours mentioned today on this thread). The Casey family can really turn this all around, but there has been so much funny business that football could disappear from Oriel for a year or two.

[White Horse]

It would be awful to see Dundalk go out also.

Is it a case of if crowds were higher (by maybe 1,000 or so) then it could have been avoided or was this situation inevitable anyway?

Getting closer and closer to one division whether people like it or not.

The club was sustainable on attendances in 2007 to 2010.

However, the decision of the owner to build the development centre was always going to cause a probelm if he decided to sell.

Dundalk's problem is that we have both issues at the moment.

[Comic Book Guy]

While I desperately hope that Dundalk survive, I don't think 'club football in this country' can be blamed for a chairman doing the sort of shennagins he seems to have done

True enough, but a chairman doing the sort of shennanigans he seems to have done was not exclusive to Dundalk, it happened at a lot of LOI clubs (ourselves included). I know it's not exclusive to Ireland either but it would appear that supporters run clubs offer the best long term survival strategy for most if not all LOI clubs unless you happen to have a wealthy benefactor.

[Dodge]

True enough, but a chairman doing the sort of shennanigans he seems to have done was not exclusive to Dundalk, it happened at a lot of LOI clubs (ourselves included). I know it's not exclusive to Ireland either but it would appear that supporters run clubs offer the best long term survival strategy for most if not all LOI clubs unless you happen to have a wealthy benefactor.

And Bohs have shown the fan route isn't without its pitfalls too.

[Jofspring]

Jofspring, Dodge is too close to the mark, doesn't matter if it was a sell out week in, week out, money was drained from the club and so much bad blood built up that there was no way back. When you have a group flying in to take over the club and give a share of things to the trust, with what the owner wanted all along (to be left with his "moneymaker") and a proper deal in place to save the club last October, and this after 2 other bids put to the owner, it all looks a total mess. What I've heard this evening is that Dundalk will be gone by the end of this week (figures with the 48hours mentioned today on this thread). The Casey family can really turn this all around, but there has been so much funny business that football could disappear from Oriel for a year or two.


The club was sustainable on attendances in 2007 to 2010.

However, the decision of the owner to build the development centre was always going to cause a probelm if he decided to sell.

Dundalk's problem is that we have both issues at the moment.

Jesus lads that doesn't sound good at all. As mentioned for this to happen to such a big club (no offence Monaghan) makes it seem so much worse.

Dublin City, Kilkenny City, Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, Galway Utd, Monaghan Utd, Cobh Ramblers and now possibly Dundalk, all to have left the league (at its top two levels in Cobh and Galways case) over the last 8 years. Not to mention we could be looking at SD Galway and possibly Mervue too.

[White Horse]

Jesus lads that doesn't sound good at all. As mentioned for this to happen to such a big club (no offence Monaghan) makes it seem so much worse.

Dublin City, Kilkenny City, Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, Galway Utd, Monaghan Utd, Cobh Ramblers and now possibly Dundalk, all to have left the league (at its top two levels in Cobh and Galways case) over the last 8 years. Not to mention we could be looking at SD Galway and possibly Mervue too.

Most clubs are two bad years away from disaster.

Up until 2010, Dundalk were considered to be running an ideal template for a provincial club.

In two years, all the previous good work was undone. It is scary how quickly it can happen.

[SkStu]

And Bohs have shown the fan route isn't without its pitfalls too.

Irrespective of the club structure, what is required is prudent stewardship and strong leadership at the end of the day. Its as simple as that. (Human nature inevitably tends to get in the way...)

[MagicMon]

I can't believe that a club like Dundalk could go by the end of the week- surely the profile would be enough for the FAI to move in and keep things going? Whatever about the reaction to MUFC leaving, this would really make an impact because of the history. Would there be a new team for next season or would it be likely to end up as another Cobh/Galway without a shot at getting a licence?

Good luck to Dundalk fans and I hope yous hang in there (and that's from a Monaghan fan)

[Mr A]

Most clubs are two bad years away from disaster.


I'd say it's a far shorter time scale than that for most clubs unfortunately. Certainly we knackered ourselves in a mere one year in the premier and have walked a very fine line since in keeping the show on the road.

[Oldred]

So this could be another 3pts for Pats from a game they lost!!!
Hope Dundalk survive regardless.

[dong]

Most clubs are two bad years away from disaster.

Up until 2010, Dundalk were considered to be running an ideal template for a provincial club.

In two years, all the previous good work was undone. It is scary how quickly it can happen.

Two bad decisions away more like in my opinion.
This is a catastrophe of the highest order. For a club with the history and tradition of Dundalk to end up in such a mire is beyond comprehension.
I hope to God they can live to fight another day.
Best of luck lads. This isn't in the Fingal or even Mons category. It's far far worse. No disrespect to anybody intended.

[Dodge]

What I've heard this evening is that Dundalk will be gone by the end of this week

Rovers at home next week, Derry at home the following week. I think they'll hang on for those pay days, no?

[Longfordian]

I read somewhere, Twitter probably, that they have the next two weeks' wages in place but they're uncertain where the money will come from after that. So you'd imagine they'll hold out for those games anyway.

[Dunny]

Yea, two weeks wages left is the latest. :(

[Mr A]

One wonders whether that factors in the upcoming gates, which you'd think would nearly cover those wages on their own.

[bullit]

Good interview here,RteSport speak to local journo and DundalkFC fan Gerry Malone-

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/813/327861/