2011 Presidential Election- Start of Campaign Poll

[Mr A]

Now that the candidates are declared, people may be interested in doing this.

First preference only. Dunno how to do them fancy ass transferable vote polls!

Edit: ordering was pretty arbitrary based on the order they appeared on a report on the first debate earlier today. I guess it would also make sense for people to say why they're voting for a particular candidate.

Main debate thread remains here: http://foot.ie/threads/140699-2011-Presidential-Election

[Macy]

Michael D Higgins - the only statesman (statesperson?) in the field.

[Mr A]

Will be watching the campaign to see how things shake out but it's likely to be either Norris or Higgins.

I'm away the day of the vote in any case so it doesn't really matter :(

[osarusan]

Any chance the title of the thread could be changed to differentiate it from the other '2011 Presidential election' thread - they're almost indistinguishable when looking at the main page.

[bennocelt]

Martin number one, and MD and Norris there after

[Mr A]

Any chance the title of the thread could be changed to differentiate it from the other '2011 Presidential election' thread - they're almost indistinguishable when looking at the main page.

Sorry, didn't think of that and only a mod can edit titles of threads I think.

[sadloserkid]

McGuinness. Mostly because 35k is a whole lot less to waste on a pretty much useless office than 250k.

[Mr A]

Didn't one of the candidates (Gallagher I think) say they'd do it for free?

[TiocfaidhArmani]

McGuinness. Mostly because 35k is a whole lot less to waste on a pretty much useless office than 250k.

Think it's closer to €340k!

[dahamsta]

I'm hoping McGuinness wins on the good old Irish "let's vote for this guy for a laugh, two fingers to the establishment" routine. I think of all the candidates, McGuinness is the one that'd be most bored (aka ****ed off) and thus most likely to exercise the presidential referral.

Is the presidential vote PR-STV?

[BonnieShels]

It's an example of PR-STV but with only one constituency/seat to fill.

Higgins all the way. By far the most accomplished member of the list.

Will be giving David my no. 2 however.

[Battery Rover]

I will vote 1 Norris 2 Michael D

[culloty82]

I'll probably do the reverse of Battery Rover in order to give Norris his due, but Michael D would probably be the better ambassador, which just edges it.

[Angus]

This is going to sound juvenile. This race is beyond comical - and of the 7, there are 2 or 3 who I think could genuinely do a decent job (Higgins, Martin, Mitchell) but for the sheer entertainment of listening to Official Ireland howl with fake outrage, would it not be funny if Martin won ?

[legendz]

Is Mary Davis hiding link or support of Fianna Fail? On Prime Time, the interviewer seemed eager to ask her about it. She's been put on a lot of prestigious boards by Fianna Fail. As she listed FG's Gareth Fitzgerald and FF's Sean Lemass as politicians who've inspired her, the interviewer seemed eager again to know if any recent FF leaders were an inspiration for her.

[sadloserkid]

Didn't one of the candidates (Gallagher I think) say they'd do it for free?

Real candidates Mr.A, real candidates!


Think it's closer to €340k!

Jaysus. Even Pat O'Sullivan would blush... :)

[BonnieShels]

Is Mary Davis hiding link or support of Fianna Fail? On Prime Time, the interviewer seemed eager to ask her about it. She's been put on a lot of prestigious boards by Fianna Fail. As she listed FG's Gareth Fitzgerald and FF's Sean Lemass as politicians who've inspired her, the interviewer seemed eager again to know if any recent FF leaders were an inspiration for her.

Yes.

As is Gallagher.

Both are FF shills.

[Mr A]

From what I saw of Prime Time with a moody baby to mind..

I thought Mary Davis was very poor. Wouldn't answer the questions.

Norris remained on the defensive throughout and performed poorly.

Michael D was ok.

The others either I didn't hear much of or made no real impression on me.

[geysir]

Michael D got out in time before Labour switched from burning the bondholder to burning the citizens and scour the country for scroungers, as soon as they were invited to put Fine Gael into power. He managed to stay on the high ground and go headlong into the presidential campaign untouched by the Great Labour 2011 election promise scam.
Considering Michael D's rhetoric over the past years about the folly of pouring money into the pits of the banks, I wonder how he reconciles his ideal "the recovery of the promise of a real republic that would be built on citizenship" to the actions of his party?

[mypost]

Don't know who to vote for, but with d.n. in the race, I will be voting for 6 candidates. I can't decide the order atm, but it's clear imo, that some of them are only in it for a laugh. As long as they keep him out, I'll be happy.

[BonnieShels]

You're not going to vote for Mitchell I take it?

But Davis, Scallan and Gallagher are acceptable?

[Kingdom]

The Presidential election is underwhelming, well the candidates are, but the actual vote on the day is going to be interesting. FG should clean up given their support, but it probably won't pan out that way.

I’ve a soft spot for David Norris , as he was a regular visit to the private home for ex-Alexandran’s in Harold’s Cross where an aunt of mine lived for a number of years. I know she greatly appreciated the interactions with him, and kept her mind sane well into her 90’s before a sister of hers done her in. So in that respect I have a certain amount of bias for Senator Norris. Plus I’d love to see how the churchies would react to him. The worry though is that something else with come out in the laundry. He's getting my #1 at this stage.


I've nothing against Michael D, he's got a few strings to his bow, but I just don't like him. That said he's a far better prospect than most of the others so I'll give him #2.


Gay Mitchell I wouldn't be fond of, he doesn't ever seem to have that humble touch that the recent President's seemed to have had. I'm not sure he’s even the best FG candidate (step forward Sean Kelly or John Bruton). He should command a sizeable vote, but just as many FG’ers hate him as non-FG do, so he’s not guaranteed.

That leaves McGuinness. I'm convinced that he’s gonna win. It seems to me that nobody cares about the election itself. The turnout could quite possibly be low. SF will make sure that their supporters turn up to vote.
About a year ago I was chatting about the next President being incumbent during the 100 yr anniversary of the 1916 rising with my Da. I persuaded him to put 50blips on Gerry Adams, as he’s Party leader. I was convinced he was going to run himself, but alas we picked the wrong horse. We got odds of 100/1. I’ll cry if McGuinness makes it.

[thebooboys]

Mary Davis has NEVER been a member of any political party. She was appointed to numerous state boards, paid and unpaid. The fact that FF have been in power for most of the 20 years of her involvement on these boards is coincidental. I didnt realise FG or Labour could appoint people to state bodies when in opposition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give this crap a break re her FF connections..... People getting desperate in their detractions

And for the record I will be voting Mary Davis No.1(I'm the 1 vote - 4.35% represented on this foot.ie poll), Martin McGuinness 2, and Norris 3. If election goes the way I anticipate that vote should be good value

[BonnieShels]

Not being a member of FF doesn't make her not a shill for them.

Ah not to worry, she'll be gone long before the real counting starts on Higgins, Mitchell, Norris and McGuinness.

[Macy]

Mary Davis has NEVER been a member of any political party. She was appointed to numerous state boards, paid and unpaid. The fact that FF have been in power for most of the 20 years of her involvement on these boards is coincidental. I didnt realise FG or Labour could appoint people to state bodies when in opposition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give this crap a break re her FF connections..... People getting desperate in their detractions
What was her particular area expertise that lead to her being appointed to, for example, Aer Rianta? Or the Broadcasting Commission?

[TiocfaidhArmani]

And for the record I will be voting Mary Davis No.1(I'm the 1 vote - 4.35% represented on this foot.ie poll), Martin McGuinness 2, and Norris 3. If election goes the way I anticipate that vote should be good value

Any online poll I've seen has been the same as this. McGuinness and Norris neck and neck. Only one different is one on a massive Celtic forum with McGuinness on 88% :D

[BonnieShels]

What was her particular area expertise that lead to her being appointed to, for example, Aer Rianta? Or the Broadcasting Commission?

Looking over his previous posts will show you his true ahem, colours. He likes to hide under a bridge I understand.

[BonnieShels]

Any online poll I've seen has been the same as this. McGuinness and Norris neck and neck. Only one different is one on a massive Celtic forum with McGuinness on 88% :D

That's surprising. I mean, are those other 12% actually real Celtic fans? :P

[BonnieShels]

Norris on Last Word now.

[geysir]

That was George Hook no less, interviewing Norris on the Last Word.
Can an interview get any worse? How to repeatedly ask the same question in a hundred same ways, just listen to George. If you though Norris is conceited, at least he has something to be conceited about, but Hook is a true empty vessel.
Norris pitched his main reason why he should be president, that we (we the people) should have one political institution, free from the clutches of the political parties. Fair enough point.
The reality is, the president is powerless. The president should at least have the power to refer a bill to the people for a referendum but there is fleck all in the constitution to protect the people from parliament abuse. The reality is, the citizens are treated as part of a franchise, the one they call Ireland inc, valued as resources for profit rather than as human beings with existential rights.

[BonnieShels]

It was Matt Cooper on the last word.

The presidentcan refer bills, but is hamstrung by the fact that if a bill is referred and is then probed constitutional it can never be challenged again. It's this rule alone which makes the president's role so frustrating.

Funnily, I was reading the constitution in relation to an anomaly in Article 42.5 which is bugging me (and something that I'm gonna have to get to the bottom of) and I decided to read the section on the President and its rather incredible how petrified Dev was of an executive President when you see the limits he imposed.

[Macy]

Presidents role is what it is. I don't remember too many proposals to change the constitution to give it more power? Given it's pretty much been FFers the whole time, think of how they could've (and probably would've) fecked up the interparty Governments over the years. Do you think we would've had "good" ffers like Hillery in the aras if it had real power?

It's a non-political head of state role - I do have sympathy with the "just get rid of the role" argument, but then it does save the executive from being distracted. We hardly need Kenny having to drop everything every other week for some visiting head of state, who's equally as powerless as our President, to go through the motions...

[BonnieShels]

Perish the thought.

Still never get my head around Paddy as an FFer.

[Spudulika]

Thebooboys you're now 1 of 2 voting for MD number 1. I'm making her my top choice as I've met her, seen her work (Special Olympics) and know that she can do a great job - we need a President who can get out the begging bowl, contrary to what that numpty Gurdgiev says.

Second will with MMcG, purey because I think he'll need it,he'll flatter to deceive as the Irish government won't allow him be voted in. 3rd Sean Gallagher, he'll be long gone anyway if there's a 2nd count. Gay Mitchell I have time for, I think he's a better person than many would believe and I feel sorry for him that FG are selling him out.

Dana might be a bit of a jesus freak, but she's intelligent and will be interesting to listen to.

Michael D is too self serving, figures he deserves it and wants to turn the Aras back into a retirement home. Plus he gets on my nerves, he's someone you'd never tire of slapping.

David Norris is a non-runner for me. He'll do well, until the next scandal, and his arrogance and stupidity (in equal measure) keep coming through. As a person I have time for him, I respect deeply the work he has done to save so much of our archaeological and historical record. He was alone in the political establishment in the late-80's, early-90's trying to bring to light a pedophile ring in a north city school and his sheer jollity I admire. However he just sank himself with the letters and his reaction. Plus I don't want to see him destroyed 100% in the public eye. He's too decent of a person for that.

[Macy]

It'd be interesting to know does Mary Davis still have an interest in Communicorp and whether she's still a member of the Irish Times trust. It might explain the depth of the research into her so far is whether her posters are airbrushed....

[geysir]

It was Matt Cooper on the last word.
Then what I heard was Hook interviewing Norris on Newstalk after 6pm.

[geysir]

Presidents role is what it is. I don't remember too many proposals to change the constitution to give it more power?
A Parliament will never ever propose or willingly grant any extra executive legislative power to a president.
The president's role is what it is, but the constitution is not fit for purpose. The executive power is given to the elected party/gov ministers, who are not bound by the election promises/platform on which they get elected.

[culloty82]

I take it Kenny was attending McGuinness's launch in a private capacity?
(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0930/1224305000585.html)

[Macy]

A Parliament will never ever propose or willingly grant any extra executive legislative power to a president.
I said proposals, which can come from any member of the Oireachtas, not just from Government. Plenty in there that will never be in Government or the Aras that could've proposed changes. They could've been proposed, but I'm not aware of any.


The president's role is what it is, but the constitution is not fit for purpose. The executive power is given to the elected party/gov ministers, who are not bound by the election promises/platform on which they get elected.
I agree regarding the constitution - that's why I was in favour of the Labour proposal for a complete revisit. Disagree to a certain extent on them being bound on promises- any Government has to face the people where they can give their verdict on performance based on pre-election promises. However, and in line with constitutional reform I'd like a mechanism for calling an election for the people though - as we saw in the last Government, it's very hard to force an election even when there are decisions to be made that'll effect generations to come which weren't on the agenda at the last election.

[Real ale Madrid]

The 22 counties - Gay Mitchell , mmmm not sure this debate is telling us much.

[BonnieShels]

What?

[thebooboys]

Regarding the Late Late Debate, well it wasn't much of a debate at all. Why can't people have the foresight to have a proper debate similar to the "US Town Hall debates", question followed by 2 minute response, followed by a 30 second rebuttal should someone disagree/target you in their response. It would be so much more revealing and argument would be fluid as opposed to the structured tripe we got from Tubridy tonight. The way the "debate" transpired Tubridy might as well have kept everyone individually and interviewed them as such. Disaster IMO. Best Performers - Dana + Norris, then McGuinness. Gay Mitchell may as well not have been there and wasn't impressed with my pick Mary

[geysir]

What positive thing can we say about the LLS? at least Tubridy was standing up, so we didn't have to listen to him slapping the table.

I think we are too hard on or dismissive of Gallagher, I'm sure after a few months in the Aras, he could turn things around and start to show a profit there. Dana shocked me with her republican communism - "burn the bondholders (heretics), up with the constitution".
On Davis' election poster? are there really some Irish people so cocooned from observations on life, that they have not come across a few morsels of vanity in the Irish woman? The though of a lady enhancing her appearance? how dare she!

[Spudulika]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/phil-hogan-warns-no-terrorist-in-the-aras-2893648.html

I know some of our politicians are two steps down from slugs that have just od'ed on salt in terms of intelligence, though this is taking the biscuit. Big Phil reckons having Martin in the Aras is going to deter US multinationals from donig business in Ireland. Odd, didn't stop them in South Africa (before and after apartheid), Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Croatia, Uzbekistan (where dissidents are boiled to death) etc etc. Looks like Martin is receiving the Trap/JD treatment. Just waiting for Daniel McDonnell to start his turn :-)

edit:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/attack-on-mcguinness-sparks-walkout-2893669.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sf-attack-dog-mauls-journalist-over-story-on-mcguinness-meet-2893712.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/rte-needs-to-raise-its-game-and-grill-mcguinness-2893561.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/eoghan-harris/eoghan-harris-get-the-gag-taken-off-gay-mitchell-and-let-him-at-it-2893566.html - while I shouldn't be surprised with anything Bertie's former best mate and PR man writes, comparing IRA tribalism to German anti-semitism deserves a kick in the head for this excuse for a journalist. He's followinghe Indlin hat RTE like Sinn Fein. Lovely.

[dahamsta]

Big Phil lost the plot when he became an /actual/ politician, I wouldn't pay him any heed.

Can you imagine the crap he came out with as an "advisor"?

[Macy]

Thought Davis was brutal on 'This Week' today, especially on the payments she received for various boards. Wouldn't say how much, and just repeated it was in the public domain and transparent, when there's several different amounts out there and no one's able to confirm the actual. Very poor, under her first bit of pressure.

[geysir]

So according to the Indo, Martin McGuinness, who as joint 1st minister in the North and with his party having legislative muscle in the NI Assembly, who apparently has no great difficulty in attracting corporations to chose location in the North over the South, but would be a corporate liability in the South should he become an elected cheerleader for the republic?

But the republic is already truly blessed, that after a decade of political corruption, inept leadership, cronyism etc, which has left the republic economically ravaged, the Fine Gael government has the plan for recovery. If only they were not so busy shoveling all the funds (pension funds) for that plan, into the banks.

[Angus]

Why are we banging on about Mary's earnings from Boards - let's focus on what she did - she was on the Board of the DAA; one of the least functioning organisations in the State. She was on 2 Bank of Ireland boards - maybe she will claim that she made BoI what it is today ?

And the Stadium Ireland thing - how did that all work out ?

Ireland Inc's record in corporate governance is a national embarrassment (witness the fingers stuff) and that should be the debate

[mypost]

Why are we banging on about Mary's earnings from Boards - let's focus on what she did - she was on the Board of the DAA; one of the least functioning organisations in the State. She was on 2 Bank of Ireland boards - maybe she will claim that she made BoI what it is today?

Why bother with all these questions in the first place?

It's a handy gig. Sign a few bills from parliament, host and visit the odd foreign dignatory, present Sam at Croker, meet the players in Lansdowne, and little else. Oh and the pay is good too.

It's a personality contest. We're electing someone to move residence for 14 years, not exactly a GE we're voting in.

[Angus]

Why bother with all these questions in the first place?

It's a handy gig. Sign a few bills from parliament, host and visit the odd foreign dignatory, present Sam at Croker, meet the players in Lansdowne, and little else. Oh and the pay is good too.

It's a personality contest. We're electing someone to move residence for 14 years, not exactly a GE we're voting in.

Well, I agree with most of what you said - you are right; most of this campaign is a sideshow. The reason her board membership is an issue is because is it there and it becomes part of the horserace. The role we are voting for is ceremonial; in fact it is because there is so little at stake that the campaign is so vicious