2011 Presidential Election- Start of Campaign Poll [Archive] - Page 4

bennocelt

20/10/2011, 10:30 AM

So stupid in your eyes would be to exercise their democratic right and vote for whomever they choose? Were the British people stupid to elect Tony Blair and his Labour Party 3 years running so? Will they be as stupid to elect the same Labour Party after the current Conservative/Lib Dem coalition goes before the public again? I think electoral "stupidity", as you so eloquently put it, isn't merely reserved for us Irish

Yes Irish people were and are generally stupid in their voting patterns. Just look at the past - Bertie, Cowen, nice, and lisbon votes, even the Lab/fg mix. An informed electorate? I think not
I dont think I have to mention other nations, its not relevant.
And come clean and get off the fence you FFer:rolleyes:

pineapple stu

20/10/2011, 10:33 AM

I have no problem conceding the first point, I know he wasn't exclusively talking about the Irish electorate, I was merely pointing out that electorates all over the world do "stupid" things
Well that's true. People are stupid, basically.

On the rest, what Macy said. And like it or not, it's the way of elections that mud gets slung more at the top.

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 10:37 AM

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 10:42 AM

With regards to Gallagher as far as I'm concerned most members of political parties are encouraged to engage in fundraisers, to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Local party organisations often have dinner dances, race nights, lunches etc and charge. Because Mr. Gallagher at the time was a successful businessman he obviuosly would have known many wealthy people who may have been willing to support their party. Its not much different than organising a dinner @ 100 euro a head. These associates of his had the cash, they willingly supported. He, as a member, obviously tried his best for his party, in 2008

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 10:44 AM

and for the record, I am not and never have been a FF voter. I have voted every shade of the spectrum. All I'm looking for is a bit of balance.

TiocfaidhArmani

20/10/2011, 10:47 AM

In 2008? He was on the party executive up until earlier this year and he NEVER resigned from the party. He's Fianna F�il, anyone who votes for him is an idiot - period.

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 10:51 AM

In 2008? He was on the party executive up until earlier this year and he NEVER resigned from the party. He's Fianna F�il, anyone who votes for him is an idiot - period.

I argued that the link that was posted concerned a story from 2008, a time when Gallagher was a member of that party, and admitted as such. I was merely highlighting the weakness of posting a link dating from 2008, a time when he was admittedly a member of that party.

Macy

20/10/2011, 11:01 AM

Anyone who reads what the so-called "quango-queen" received over 15 years on various bodies would rationally discern that in fact per annum the money isn't as significant as that headline a few weeks ago made out, i think it averages at just under 29k p/a. Now considering the other much more exorbitant wages received by higher civil servants, other politicians, board members etc I think that its more reasonable than others might suggest.
How much did she get in expenses? That wouldn't show on the P60 she was so quick to produce.

With regards to Gallagher as far as I'm concerned most members of political parties are encouraged to engage in fundraisers, to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Local party organisations often have dinner dances, race nights, lunches etc and charge. Because Mr. Gallagher at the time was a successful businessman he obviuosly would have known many wealthy people who may have been willing to support their party. Its not much different than organising a dinner @ 100 euro a head. These associates of his had the cash, they willingly supported. He, as a member, obviously tried his best for his party, in 2008
Again, come off it. This dinner isn't the same as €100 a head cumman dinner dance. To repeat, he's continued to suggest he was just a grassroots member, with no links to the top of the party. This shows otherwise.

TiocfaidhArmani

20/10/2011, 11:11 AM

Think this sums the chancer up.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/gallaghers-useless-advice-at-euro4aminute-left-me-feeling-sick-2911605.html?start=1

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 11:43 AM

How much did she get in expenses? That wouldn't show on the P60 she was so quick to produce.

Again, come off it. This dinner isn't the same as �100 a head cumman dinner dance. To repeat, he's continued to suggest he was just a grassroots member, with no links to the top of the party. This shows otherwise.

The action is the same, the amount is different that's all. This can obviously be explained through the contacts and business relationships he would have made. For me, its an irrelevant argument. If I was anti-Labour for selling-out on pre election promises would it warrant a discussion about Michael D's organisations fundraising figures too??:confused:

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 11:49 AM

Think this sums the chancer up.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/gallaghers-useless-advice-at-euro4aminute-left-me-feeling-sick-2911605.html?start=1

Again, any other candidate could be levelled with a similar individual disappointment. I know I've met alot of councillors/TD's some impressive, some not so. Again argument, biased and irrelevant

bennocelt

20/10/2011, 12:04 PM

Again, any other candidate could be levelled with a similar individual disappointment. I know I've met alot of councillors/TD's some impressive, some not so. Again argument, biased and irrelevant

Are you sure you are not a FFer.

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 12:35 PM

Are you sure you are not a FFer.

Pretty sure. If I was I wouldn't hide it. My voting record: In last 2 Locals I've Voted Labour + FF
Last 3 Nationals I've voted FF/FG/Independent

As I said before I'm only arguing in interest of balance & fairness

Macy

20/10/2011, 12:48 PM

The action is the same, the amount is different that's all. This can obviously be explained through the contacts and business relationships he would have made. For me, its an irrelevant argument. If I was anti-Labour for selling-out on pre election promises would it warrant a discussion about Michael D's organisations fundraising figures too??:confused:
For you it's irrelevant, I think for a lot it shows that he told mistruths over his true involvement with FF. That's the kernel of the issue around Gallagher and FF. If he'd been upfront and honest, this stuff wouldn't be the issue it is.

Higgin's fundraising would only be an issue if he had tried to downplay his involvement in the party, and he'd deserve it because it would be as incredible as Gallaghers claims.

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 1:00 PM

For you it's irrelevant, I think for a lot it shows that he told mistruths over his true involvement with FF. That's the kernel of the issue around Gallagher and FF. If he'd been upfront and honest, this stuff wouldn't be the issue it is.

Higgin's fundraising would only be an issue if he had tried to downplay his involvement in the party, and he'd deserve it because it would be as incredible as Gallaghers claims.

Sean Gallagher's involvement in his party's past is miniscule when compared to politicians such as Michael D, Mitchell & McGuinness. And I'm not saying that thats good, bad or indifferent, but to even suggest that Mr. Gallagher has had any significance in his party like the 3 CAREER politicians mentioned have had on theirs is silly.

And for the record Michael D & Martin McGuinness have been referring to themselves as Independent minded candidates consistently. In fairness to Gay Mitchell he's the only one whose proud to espouse his party credentials, and probably to his detriment.

Macy

20/10/2011, 1:25 PM

I dispute the miniscule, if he was on the NEC. However, to repeat, the "career" politicians party histories are out in the open. And the bits of them that weren't have been exposed to some degree or other. McGuinness has had his IRA past discussed, Norris his clemency plea's and his wages/ pension, Mitchell his clemency pleas and some right wing political groupings. Everyone who's had something to hide has had people digging. I don't see why you think Gallagher or Davis don't deserve equal treatment and have to answer perfectly legitimate questions. Gallagher and Davies have tied themselves in knots over things that they could've dealt with by being open and transparent in the first place. If they can't stand the heat of the political kitchen, the should get the fook out. And that goes for their supporters too. To paraphase an FFer, they're playing senior hurling now...

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 1:32 PM

I agree everything and everyone's fair game. No problems, it's open season. What I don't appreciate is the likes of Michael D getting an easy-ride" from the likes of Miriam O Cal et al. That night she went for McGuinness she could have equally been more aggressive towards Michael D as he was clearly uncomfortable with being asked about religion/beliefs. She chose not to. Now, religion isn't a topic that interests me per se but the point stands. In the interest of fairness/balance she should have pursued Michael D on that point but no she didn't. Was it because he was too old??? :rolleyes:

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 1:34 PM

As for Mary Davis's FF connections , they're tenuous to say the least. FF have been in power for almost the last 20 years and yes they did appoint her to many boards. But they were in power, who else was going to bloody appoint her??? I know her name is Mary but I don't believe in the immaculate conception or the concept of being ordained from upon high with a decent job.

bennocelt

20/10/2011, 1:44 PM

Pretty sure. If I was I wouldn't hide it. My voting record: In last 2 Locals I've Voted Labour + FF
Last 3 Nationals I've voted FF/FG/Independent

As I said before I'm only arguing in interest of balance & fairness

So I was right then:D
I never voted for FF, ALWAYS were corrupt. But i thought that was obvious - so why did you change then from FF?

thebooboys

20/10/2011, 1:57 PM

bennocelt

20/10/2011, 2:17 PM

So by voting for FF once in a national election, and once in a local(which for me is candidate based and not solely party based) I am thereby a Fianna Failer??
So Michael D was a member of FF, he is therefore a FF'er, McGuinness was on IRA Council, he's also pigeon-holed for life, oh and did I mention Norris?????????? Oh i Better not

Yep, tainted for life - should be branded:mad:. They wre voted in three times, despite everything, urgh:o
The very same people who give it a few years will be back to voting that shower in again.

dahamsta

20/10/2011, 3:40 PM

Lads, let's not get into personal politics. Focus on the issue in hand please.

Spudulika

20/10/2011, 5:32 PM

Just because somebody votes for a candidate from a particular party doesn't mean they suport that party. I would not be a fan of SF in generalbut have voted for SF candidates because they were good people and hardworking. Likewise the Greens, and I never voted FF simply because I always felt it was a wasted effort,and in our area there were never anydecent FF'ers (when Brian Lenihan is the head man you know it's not good). Last time around I refused to vote for Leo halfwit or Moan Burton, despite not being against their parties.

bennocelt

20/10/2011, 6:55 PM

Lads, let's not get into personal politics. Focus on the issue in hand please.

Fair enuff me bad - just get into a sweat when I think of zanu-ff

Funny that gallagher is already having to dodge questions about finance and loans - isnt that enough proof if any he is a ff at heart. imagine what might be uncovered if he is elected

BonnieShels

20/10/2011, 6:56 PM

Stop taking the bait with tbb lads.

Anyway, can't wait to see how VB handles Gallagher tonight.

BonnieShels

22/10/2011, 11:32 PM

Seriously, how is Gallagher still in the lead? He's an FFer for FF sake.

Macy

23/10/2011, 4:45 PM

Seriously, how is Gallagher still in the lead? He's an FFer for FF sake.
Only saving grace is that FF are still fecked, and aren't getting any benefit so far, at least. Might make a few more jump ship to be independents actually, if it's that easy to distance themselves from their past.

It'll be interesting how it actually goes. I'd still be surprised if he polls that high - will he get the vote out? If he doesn't, it still very much game on...

mypost

24/10/2011, 3:16 AM

Poll:

Sean Gallagher 0%

Obviously nobody here has been asked by Red C and co.

Macy

24/10/2011, 8:00 AM

Poll was at the start of the campaign when he would've been low teens, so not that surprising.

BonnieShels

24/10/2011, 8:13 AM

You would hardly think that if it were to be taken now that the results would be much different?

I'd say all of the Norris voters here have migrated to Mickey D and that Gay and Martin have increased slightly. Bar our resident FFer, the boo boys, I can't see anyone here biting for Gallagher.

There are 2 things in Higgins favour on Thursday: 1. Gallagher's vibe is relatively young and there's a large 18-25 section out there that thankfully in this case will be stranded in college or just plain lazy. 2. Despite this apparebt 1st preference surge, Gallagher will remain transfer toxic. Sure I'm giving my no. 2 to McGuinness on thst basis.

It never ceases to amaze me the propensity if Irish people to blank out of their minds the damage and destruction laid down by FF and their cronies and yet vote another of them in. A concerted effort needs to be made this week to highlight Gallagher's links to FF and the crooks to damage him. It's not gonna help though when the debate tonight is being manned by the arch-FF apologist, Pat the Plank.

thebooboys

24/10/2011, 9:56 AM

Reason he wouldn't register on an online forum like this is its generally full of a left-leaning, hardcore, anti-establishment element. Even thoughI'm not voting for Gallagher, nor am I a FF'er I am delighted to be branded the "resident FF'er". Guess people on here just can't take criticism or provide coherent responses to the counter arguments I pose. So with that in mind, Vive FF - q "The Empire Strikes Back" theme music :o

Macy

24/10/2011, 10:10 AM

Reason he wouldn't register on an online forum like this is its generally full of a left-leaning, hardcore, anti-establishment element.
For a start, political forums in Ireland are overrun with right wingers (see politics.ie!?!). Presumably, given he keeps harking on about community work, he is trying to appeal to the left? He likes to give the impression he is anti establishment as well (above politics and other such soundbites), not that I'd consider this forum anti establishment anyway. It's hardly anarchists-r-us.

One thing I will say, is the numbers that engage with this forum is down compared to the overall site traffic. Only those that are engaged with the election will bother posting, and that is where Gallagher may come unstuck if that is reflected in the real world. Saying in phone poll you're voting Gallagher when given a list of options is one thing, bothering your hole to go and vote is quite another, and I wouldn't be surprised if the gap closes between Higgins and Gallagher in the election on that basis.

thischarmingman

24/10/2011, 11:12 AM

Apologies if already posted:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/23/david-norris-ireland-presidential-race

Could David Norris become Ireland's first gay president?
Posh, intellectual and openly gay, David Norris is an outsider in the Irish presidential elections, but just might be the winner, if his showing on the campaign trail is anything to go by

mypost

24/10/2011, 5:44 PM

You would hardly think that if it were to be taken now that the results would be much different?

It never ceases to amaze me the propensity if Irish people to blank out of their minds the damage and destruction laid down by FF and their cronies and yet vote another of them in. A concerted effort needs to be made this week to highlight Gallagher's links to FF and the crooks to damage him.

FF already have someone living in the Park. Mary Robinson was the only bill-signer that wasn't a FFer afaik.

FF must be creaming themselves over Gallagher. They didn't put a candidate forward, yet at their lowest ebb, one of them still gets in. :D

BonnieShels

24/10/2011, 10:01 PM

So how did the debate go?

Spudulika

24/10/2011, 10:20 PM

Gallagher is gone. Stitched up by PK and everybody had a go at him. Mary Davis has been good, but she's no chance. Gay Mitchell is being cut across, Dana is marginalised, David Norris is doing a stand up show.

Then there were 2 - the luvvies darling MDH is being guided gently to his retirement home in the Park, while Martin McG is looking sharp and took out Gallagher.

Can't understand the people in this audience, if you want panto, go to the Gaiety in January ffs.

SkStu

24/10/2011, 10:30 PM

Can't understand the people in this audience, if you want panto, go to the Gaiety in January ffs.

shouting "He's behind you!" takes on a whole different meaning when Norris is on the stage though... ;)

:eek:

Dodge

24/10/2011, 10:30 PM

Gallagher wasn;t stitched up FFS

He just couldn't asnwer questions. Not like McGuinness et al haven't been grilled this election. Even Dana performed better than him tonight. DANA!!!

sligoman

24/10/2011, 10:36 PM

Gallagher is out, Higgins is definitely going to win imo. McGuinness to snatch 2nd maybe

Macy

24/10/2011, 10:38 PM

Gallagher is gone. Stitched up by PK and everybody had a go at him.
Stitched up or found out? Didn't watch it, as I hate frontline, but Vinnie just played the clip. He got caught on his own lie on not collected money for the 5 grand a head dinner, and then just kept on digging. Still not sure it'll stick, might close the gap though.

bennocelt

24/10/2011, 11:37 PM

I have to say that was amazing tv I watched tonight, wow. If you want to know where the swings are going to be I always like to check the latest odds and gallagher has now moved out to second favourite on Paddy power, where he was 1/5 a few days ago. Surely to God the Irish people cant vote for a crook now? Thought Martin Mg, Dana and Norris did well tonight. Norris was hilarious. And what about Mitchells meltdown.

mypost

25/10/2011, 12:36 AM

Gay Mitchell is a very weak candidate put forward by FG. He's a failed politician here, he didn't pull up many trees in Brussels either, so FG decide to throw him to the wolves for state bill-signer. He never made any headway during the campaign, and will trail well behind the winner. MDH is a good candidate, knows all about the pomp and ceremony the role demands, but the young voters won't take to him. MMG is the strongest candidate from the political parties, but too much controversy ruined his campaign. Gallagher is a real surprise, then again he has his FF background, and despite having no credentials for the position, will probably still pull in their votes. Dana and Davis are using the campaign as a profile stunt more than a serious attempt to sit in the Aras.

It's still a personality contest in the main, but the six of them will all be getting a vote from me, and I don't mind who wins as long as one of them does.

Real ale Madrid

25/10/2011, 6:53 AM

An obvious statement to make I know but: Why is Sean Gallagher going forward for the presidency anyway ? I'm glad he was exposed last night.

Had to sit through the apprentice before I could turn on the debate last night. ( I know, I know ) One thing struck me at the end of that show was Bill Cullen saying to a poor sap who was about to get the sack - "there is no room for nobility and etiquette in business" With people like that supposedly at the top end of business in this country surely it was only a matter of time before something bad came out about Gallagher - I'm glad it was this week and not next week.

legendz

25/10/2011, 7:59 AM

It was a fantastic debate and great viewing for me personally. I've had no time at all for Gallagher nor Fianna Fail. Fair play to McGuinness, he was right to do it. I hope it's not too late. Many were fooled into voting for Fiannal Fail in 2007. It's been looking for ages that people were going to fooled again.

Macy

25/10/2011, 8:06 AM

One thing struck me at the end of that show was Bill Cullen saying to a poor sap who was about to get the sack - "there is no room for nobility and etiquette in business" With people like that supposedly at the top end of business in this country surely it was only a matter of time before something bad came out about Gallagher - I'm glad it was this week and not next week.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment about our business leaders, take away the building boom and the state grants, was Gallagher ever at the top end of business? Just another myth...

I don't know whether Gallagher is gone - it's not even the first time he's been nailed on his previous version of events. However, it might have done enough to close the gap enough for Higgins to do it on transfers.

bennocelt

25/10/2011, 8:45 AM

Had to sit through the apprentice before I could turn on the debate last night. ( I know, I know ) One thing struck me at the end of that show was Bill Cullen saying to a poor sap who was about to get the sack - "there is no room for nobility and etiquette in business" With people like that supposedly at the top end of business in this country surely it was only a matter of time before something bad came out about Gallagher - I'm glad it was this week and not next week.

Lol, me too. And likewise I also was susprised by this, but then it is Bill Cullin, the "self made millionaire" - or maybe another well known FF a sslicker from the car salesman.

pineapple stu

25/10/2011, 8:49 AM

Many were fooled into voting for Fianna Fail in 2007.
Nobody was fooled into voting Fianna F�il in 2007. Many, many people were remarkably stupid and did it anyway.

passinginterest

25/10/2011, 8:59 AM

Only had half an eye on it last night but Gallagher was appaling, if he get's voted in after that then I completely give up on this country. Yes it was a bit of a dirty trick but the point is the dirt was there just waiting to be found. His face when he realised what he had said about "there might have been an envelope" was priceless. Norris was entertaining, Dana and Davis were irrelevant, Gay Mitchell is just a miserable, dull waste of time and Michael D was his usual harmless self. The fact that Michael D is the only one to avoid any serious controversy marks him out for me again as the right figure to fill what is essentially a glorified ambassadorial role. He's intelligent and capable of making informed decisions should something come before him that need's to be reviewed before signing.

thebooboys

25/10/2011, 9:52 AM

Last Nights entertainment was particularly entertaining, "popcorn tv". It was a far cry from a debate. Gallagher didn't deal with anything thrown at him and he was visibly shaken/distraught last night. He's on Pat Kenny this morning and how he deals with this controversy today is pivotal. If he confronts it and barks back then keeps his head down for one day he could remain unscathed given he moratorium. 11% of the electorate were undecided from Sunday's polls so Gallagher in theory is still safe unless a lot of his supporters deviate away from him. Then again, that only makes sense if you believe he was on 40%, a figure I find, and always found, inflated

Best performers - Norris (more for comedy than substance)
McGuinness (Mixed Bag - The "Murder" questin was a low to the high of the Gallagher confrontation)

Loser's - visible collapse in Gallagher.
- the Irish audience - No place for heckling, jeering & applause i proper balanced debate. Shame on RTE - the pro Norris, Michael D element was clear for all to hea/see