2011 Presidential Election- Start of Campaign Poll

[geezer]

is the only candidate who is a regular for years at LOI Grounds, He is president of GUFC and maybe if he could entice some, asian/american investors to the league over his term if he succeeds

[pineapple stu]

Isn't that going back to the parochial "He fixed my pothole" way of choosing someone to vote for though?

I'll probably be voting for Higgins though purely on a process of elimination. The Fianna Fáilers are out by association (Gallagher, Davis, Dana), couldn't see voting Sinn Féin and Norris is a bit of a broken record - yes, I know you're a trailblazer for gay rights, but we're talking about being President of the country now*. So that leaves just Gay Mitchell and Micheál D really.



* - My opinion is probably skewed by an interview in the UCD match programme last year where, when talking about playing sport in the 60s, he ended up describing an episode in the showers after one game where he "came swinging out" of the shower saying to the other person "Tony, you know what your mother always said about picking the soap up in the shower".

[Macy]

The reason her board membership is an issue is because is it there and it becomes part of the horserace.
It's also about establishing why she was there, and her credentials as a genuine independent. Bartholomew told us all himself with Dobbo on 6.1, through the tears, that he only appointed friends to boards. She's tripping herself up with her answers, a bit like Gallagher earlier in the campaign - just publish her full renumeration and the story dies. If she doesn't know how to play this one, how's she going to handle a political crisis at home (a la Hillery) or some incident abroad where she has to think on her feet?

[mypost]

how's she going to handle a political crisis at home (a la Hillery) or some incident abroad where she has to think on her feet?

That's the Taoiseach's job.

[Macy]

That's the Taoiseach's job.
What, like the situation in 1982? :rolleyes:

[culloty82]

Forget FG's less-than-effective attacks - what McGuinness should really worry about is the entry of Roddy Collins into the political arena in support of his candidacy.

[Spudulika]

Forget FG's less-than-effective attacks - what McGuinness should really worry about is the entry of Roddy Collins into the political arena in support of his candidacy.

Nah, that has to be an early April Fools. If anything is going to scupper his bid - short of him being found to have had inappropriate relations with an underage sheep, it's that!

Looks like the 3rd seal has been opened!


edit: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/norris-made-seanad-plea-on-behalf-of-second-lover-2894088.html

I think this is making the good senator look a bit more dodgy than he could have imagined. He spoke about pederasty being practiced in North Africa. Now he's seen with a man substantially older. He's in a relationship with a failed asylum seeker, using religion as a stick to beat a goverment department with, and I can't help but feel like this has all but sealed that windbag from Galway's position in the Aras.

[mypost]

What, like the situation in 1982? :rolleyes:

There were a number of political situations in 1982, what one are you talking about here?

[Macy]

Ah come on mypost! The one involving the pressure put on president not to dissolve the dáil, it's pretty bloody (in)famous. Someone who flaps about whether to release payments they claim are in the public domain is hardly going to be able such a situation, which could conceivably happen again in the term of this presidency.

[mypost]

There were 2 elections that year, the budget, the AG scandal, the side the government took over the Falklands, etc. Any of them could be classed as "a political crisis at home or some incident abroad".

There was pressure put on Hillery to not dissolve the Dail, but when has any bill-signer dissolved a Dail and called an election on his own? Only when the PM advises it, does it happen.

[culloty82]

Nah, that has to be an early April Fools. If anything is going to scupper his bid - short of him being found to have had inappropriate relations with an underage sheep, it's that!


No, believe it or not, there was a picture of him in today's Examiner at a rally in Monaghan. Davis has published payments of almost €400,000 in board payments, Vincent Browne's debate this time tomorrow will be the next setpiece.

[legendz]

Davis and Gallagher are tarnished Fianna Failers. Higgins doesn't have the energy and nor is the presidency supposed to be a retirement home.

[Macy]

There were 2 elections that year, the budget, the AG scandal, the side the government took over the Falklands, etc. Any of them could be classed as "a political crisis at home or some incident abroad".

I would've thought in a presidential election thread it might've been fairly obvious tbh.


There was pressure put on Hillery to not dissolve the Dail, but when has any bill-signer dissolved a Dail and called an election on his own? Only when the PM advises it, does it happen.
He could've refused to dissolve the dáil - it is in the Presidents perogative, and is a political decision they have to make. Mary Robinson said she would've refused Reynolds a dissolution when the FF-Labour coalition collasped, if he'd asked. And he would've asked, only FF thought Labour would go back in with a new FF leader.

[pineapple stu]

Higgins doesn't have the energy and nor is the presidency supposed to be a retirement home.
Quite a discriminatory comment there, in fairness. If he thinks he's up to a seven-year contract, who are you to argue? There's other way more important points to consider.

[geysir]

Davis and Gallagher are tarnished Fianna Failers. Higgins doesn't have the energy and nor is the presidency supposed to be a retirement home.
All the candidates are tarnished by their associations including Higgins. He is tarnished not by his age but by his close association to the hypocritical stance of the Labour party. He advocated a similar line to the Labour party pre-election manifesto, he could step back from that by withdrawing from the 2011 election and continue to waffle about his great support for the equal rights of the citizen, meanwhile his party now in government do the opposite.

[legendz]

Says you.

[mypost]

He could've refused to dissolve the dáil - it is in the Presidents perogative, and is a political decision they have to make. Mary Robinson said she would've refused Reynolds a dissolution when the FF-Labour coalition collasped, if he'd asked. And he would've asked, only FF thought Labour would go back in with a new FF leader.

Indeed she could have, but didn't. The Taoiseach tells him/her what to do, so they sign the bill and do it.

The main contenders seem to be Mitchell, McGuinness, Higgins, and the will he/won't he flip-flopper from the Senate. Davis, Gallagher, and Dana are there to make up the numbers.

[pineapple stu]

Says you.
Huh?
.

[Spudulika]

It's hotting up at the moment and it looks like DN is clear or at least okay. But good lord is he making it hard work. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/david-norris-my-seanad-plea-was-not-for-my-lover-2894703.html

I wonder if the regular people will take more to Sean Gallagher, he's talking a semblance of sense and with him in the Aras you can be sure there won't be extravagance!

[Macy]

Indeed she could have, but didn't. The Taoiseach tells him/her what to do, so they sign the bill and do it.
She says she would have refused the dissolution, even if Reynolds has asked. As is in the Presidents power. Just as Hillery had to decide whether to dissolve or not, when the opposition could've had the numbers. The presidency has limited powers, it doesn't have no power and no role in our democracy, ffs

[thischarmingman]

From what I saw of Prime Time with a moody baby to mind..

Sorry, someone left you in charge of a baby?

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/facepalming.gif

[BonnieShels]

Debate at 9 tonight on TV3.
Do I dare watch?

[thebooboys]

Davis and Gallagher are tarnished Fianna Failers. Higgins doesn't have the energy and nor is the presidency supposed to be a retirement home.

Couldn't disagree more. What are you basing this on? Gallagher's support in growing so would like to know why he's tarnished. As for Michael D comment, I won't be voting for him but still think the ageist argument is weak at best, he is capable and evidently knowledgeable. If you have arguments with some factual basis they're welcome

[Lionel Ritchie]

Says you.

...and that's the game. Slam-dunked you there Stu. :-D

[legendz]

Couldn't disagree more. What are you basing this on? Gallagher's support in growing so would like to know why he's tarnished. As for Michael D comment, I won't be voting for him but still think the ageist argument is weak at best, he is capable and evidently knowledgeable. If you have arguments with some factual basis they're welcome

In my eyes he is tarnished by his involvement with Fianna Fail but maybe not by the majority which is fair and democratic if that is the way it is. It's not an ageist comment that I directed at Labour's Higgins, it's just a comment with a throw back to the days where the Aras was seen as a retirement home for Fianna Failers. I accept he is knowledgeable. If the presidency has been an ambition of his, I don't see why he didn't make a bid in the past.

[mypost]

She says she would have refused the dissolution, even if Reynolds has asked. As is in the Presidents power. Just as Hillery had to decide whether to dissolve or not, when the opposition could've had the numbers. The presidency has limited powers, it doesn't have no power and no role in our democracy, ffs

Could have and would have are one thing, doing it is another. They can also re-order General Elections such as in 1989, but never do. Both did what the Taoiseach of the time told them to do.

We're not electing Obama here, a proper President, whose actions can make or break a nation. We're electing someone to upsticks for 7, probably 14 years, on a very generous salary. It's a personality contest, for a very limited and functional role.

[BonnieShels]

Norris is killing them with kindness.

So far:
1. Higgins
2. Norris
3. Mitchell & McGuinness
4. The FFailures

I'm running 20 minutes behind the live programme.

[BonnieShels]

VB going for McG now.

So far:
1. Higgins
2. Norris & McGuinness
3. Gallagher & Mitchell
4. Davis
5. Dana

[BonnieShels]

Excellent retort from McG. Held his head when VB went for the jugular.

1. Higgins & McGuinness
2. Mitchell & Norris
3. Gallagher
4. Davis
5. Dana

[BonnieShels]

Gallagher not holding up well under pressure about his FF ties.

Dana is like a startled cat.

[BonnieShels]

1. Higgins
2. McGuinness & Mitchell
3. Norris
4. Gallagher
5. Davis
6. Dana

Gallagher has no substance really. The less said about Mary and Dana the better. All platitudinal crap.
Have been very impressed by McG's approach to the tough questioning. He's grown into it thoroughly.
Norris has been mental but we couldn't have expected anything else.
Mitchell was a lot more impressive than I was expecting him to be. FG have to drop this anti-McGuinness crap because it's not working and making him look like a tw@t.

Amazingly in the last few minutes you can see Gay has cottoned onto this and I can see a change of angle from FG from tomorrow.

Higgins has been heads and shoulders above the rest though. He is different class in his ability to convey confidence without resorting to shouting and classlessness.

[BonnieShels]

And now we move onto Norris' letters!

[BonnieShels]

Not handling this at all well.

[legendz]

My rating of performances:

1. Mitchell
2. McGuinness
3. Higgins
4. ******
5. Dana
6. Gallagher
7. Davis

[BonnieShels]

My rating of performances:

1. Mitchell
2. McGuinness
3. Higgins
4. ******
5. Dana
6. Gallagher
7. Davis


Didn't know this fella was nominated...

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/asterix.jpg

[BonnieShels]

My rating of performances:

1. Mitchell
2. McGuinness
3. Higgins
4. ******
5. Dana
6. Gallagher
7. Davis

Couldn't disagree more.

Higgins was way out in front.
McGuinness and Mitchell joint-second.

Norris had a bad debate and didn't come across well.

The two "Independent FFers" were woeful.

And Dana was... yeah.

[Lim till i die]

1. McGuinness (The frankly astonishing personal attack from Vincenzo could perversly help him, carried himself well throughout)
2. Gallagher (I don't like him but he'll go down well in the sticks, best of the independents by a mile)
3. Michael D (Got an easy ride from his buddy, said nothing too pompous. I can't stand the man personally but you were looking at your next president in him I fear.)

Big Gap

4. Gay Mitchell (Rabidly attacking Shinners is sooooo 1986 Gay, it make you look like a dull, bitter, clown...... you dull, bitter clown. The smug look on his face when Vincent Browne was doing his best to win the former chief of staff of the PIRA a sympathy vote made me throw my dog at the telly and my dogs about four stone)


Gaping Chasm


5. Mary Davis (vile, patronising, parasite. But then so were the previous two incumbents)
6. Dana (mad as a brush, far too worst kind of catholic for my liking aswell)




Hurtling Towards the Earths Core.




7. David Norris (Absolutely finished after that question tonight. Can't understand for the life of me why he ran, either he has no good friends or he's an egomaniac.)

[mypost]

He ran because the polls looked good for him, they may yet still do. Despite what he's got up to.

Cagney on IAM said this morning, that his son and their generation see MMG a lot differently to how Cagney's generation see him. It's a fair point, but I can't see him winning tbh. Dana and Davis offer little substance, and don't really seem to know what the gig entails.

[BonnieShels]

The thing about Cagney's son's generation is that they are less likely to vote.(I am probably his generation technically but I'd say there's an age gap of sorts)

No one I know has any thoughts of positivity towards SF but McGuinness was very good last night and handled VB's assertions.

I think VB handled the debate as well as he could and threw everyone an awkward one.

I just worry for the RTÉ debate because PK will try to tear into McG and Mitchell and will give Davis and Gallagher a free run.

Mitchell needs to stop attacking SF. Once he stopped doing that last night he relaxed more.

[Macy]

Could have and would have are one thing, doing it is another. They can also re-order General Elections such as in 1989, but never do. Both did what the Taoiseach of the time told them to do.

We're not electing Obama here, a proper President, whose actions can make or break a nation. We're electing someone to upsticks for 7, probably 14 years, on a very generous salary. It's a personality contest, for a very limited and functional role.
You're wrong on the powers of the president. You'll never accept it, but you are.


7. David Norris (Absolutely finished after that question tonight. Can't understand for the life of me why he ran, either he has no good friends or he's an egomaniac.)
He's gone if todays story about the disability benefit is true. Well he'll probably still do ok on 1st Preferences (the mypost factor of an inability to admit they're wrong), but he won't get the transfers.

[pineapple stu]

He's gone if todays story about the disability is true.
Is this the bit about him having a degenerative eye illness? Saw that yesterday in the Daily Mail, but you know - I assumed it was probably the Daily Mail talking crap and attacking the gay guy. For our children's sake. And think of the soldiers in Iraq.

[mypost]

You're wrong on the powers of the president. You'll never accept it, but you are.

There's nothing to accept imo, so I don't have to admit to anything that is wrong atm.

Some people think we're choosing a leader with a lot of power and accountability. Indeed we did, even though it was last February.

[Macy]

Is this the bit about him having a degenerative eye illness? Saw that yesterday in the Daily Mail, but you know - I assumed it was probably the Daily Mail talking crap and attacking the gay guy. For our children's sake. And think of the soldiers in Iraq.
Sorry, I've amended the post for clarification. One of the papers is running that he was on Disability Benefit for 16 years, up until last year. The implication is that he wasn't fit enough to work at Trinners, but was to work and claim the salary for being a senator. In the current climate where the media have been whipping up an anti social welfare storm, he'll be lumped in with that mythical family in Donegal.

Personally I'm not sure I see it as that wrong - the Seanad is a part time role, and if he's deemed not fit for the day job, what's he to do? If the Seanad is to remain, it should be open to all, including those with a disability and without them being left the poorer for it.

[OwlsFan]

I'd never vote for President

(1) a murderer who only stopped murdering because there was a prospect of power.
(2) someone whose claim to fame is that they won the Eurovision.
(3) a person who used their seat in the Seanaid to write to a foreign power to go easy of a statutory rapist who is an ex-boyfriend.
(4) some Fianna Fail hacks in different clothing.
(5) a poet who would spend most of his time composing sonnets.

That leaves Mitchell uninspiring and all as he is but one needs a safe hand as President.

[pineapple stu]

Bit harsh dismissing Higgins as a "Fianna Fáil hack in different clothing"?

[Macy]

Bit harsh dismissing Higgins as a "Fianna Fáil hack in different clothing"?
Did he not win eurovision? I lost track when we used to win it every year...

[Macy]

Turns out Norris was receiving the disability payments from Trinners, rather than Social Welfare. I think it's a bit of a nothing story to be honest, but the media appear to be running with it regardless.

[culloty82]

It is a legitimate question though to ask how hepatitis can render a person incapable of lecturing, but conduct gruelling Senate and Presidential campaigns? I think FG's US PR people have sold Mitchell a pup on the negative campaigning, that said his dour personality doesn't help, and you suspect Máiread McGuinness would have fared far better. It's sobering to realise though that words like Warrington, Canary Wharf and Marita Ann will mean nothing to 18-24 year old voters, who'll only know Martin McG as the cuddly Chuckle Brother.

[Macy]

It is a legitimate question though to ask how hepatitis can render a person incapable of lecturing, but conduct gruelling Senate and Presidential campaigns?
That is fair enough thinking about it. McCullough on the News at One basically said Norris conceded he'd got better, but still didn't go back to work, so has dug himself a new hole to get out of. Doesn't help the impression he'd be an accident waiting to happen in the Aras.


I think FG's US PR people have sold Mitchell a pup on the negative campaigning, that said his dour personality doesn't help, and you suspect Máiread McGuinness would have fared far better.
Is it not Mitchells personality rather than the PR people? FG fecked up by entertaining Cox - without the thought of a none FGer running, would Mitchell have even entered the race?


It's sobering to realise though that words like Warrington, Canary Wharf and Marita Ann will mean nothing to 18-24 year old voters, who'll only know Martin McG as the cuddly Chuckle Brother.
Well it makes me feel old.

[Spudulika]

It is a legitimate question though to ask how hepatitis can render a person incapable of lecturing, but conduct gruelling Senate and Presidential campaigns? I think FG's US PR people have sold Mitchell a pup on the negative campaigning, that said his dour personality doesn't help, and you suspect Máiread McGuinness would have fared far better. It's sobering to realise though that words like Warrington, Canary Wharf and Marita Ann will mean nothing to 18-24 year old voters, who'll only know Martin McG as the cuddly Chuckle Brother.

Generations pass and history is past. A couple of generations will view Churchill as a great leader instead of a haphazard politician who had a thirst for blood.

Dana tried to speak economics and society in the debate, but there was more interest in "the craic" - MDH was like a lacklustre frog, Norris was like he was on uppers, Mitchell tried snarling but saw he was getting nowhere, MMG was smooth and urbane, MD was a non-entity, SG not as tough as I thought he would be.

Dreadful format, shows Browne up to be the hack he is.