Russia v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 6th September 2011 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[paul_oshea]

I wouldn't let whelan take me granny to bingo, and I don't have a granny.

I'd still much rather see keane take it, then andrews probably. I reckon ward might be a decent peno taker too.

[Noelys Guitar]

Not great hearing Dick say draw in Slovakia.
Wins for Russia & Slovakia tomorrow and they could go into the last set of fixtures knowing that 4 points could be enough to see them both go straight through.
Probably getting a bit ahead of myself here, it will all become clear tomorrow night....

They will definetely play for a draw in that last game and there will be nothing we will be able to do about it. But I don't think Slovakia will get more than 3 points from their next two games. Armenia are hopefully going to turn out to be our Gary Mckay.

[elroy]

This was our team in the home game: 1 Given; 4 O'Shea, 2 St Ledger, 5 Dunne, 3 Kilbane; 7 Lawrence (14 Long (62), 6 Whelan (15 Gibson '66), 8 Green, 11 McGeady; 9 Doyle (12 Fahey '71), 10 Keane.

And that team conceded 3 goals. What difference to now?? Our defence tomorrow is probably weaker. Andrews represents an improvement on Green and Duff on Lawrence (who has failed to hit the heights of the last campaign). But can I ask this question:

Russia walked their way through this team for over an hour at home. By and large we have a very similar team to that out again tomorrow, seemingly lining up in a different formation. What is Trap going to do to make sure the same doesnt happen to us again?
Because on the face of it, it doesnt appear that tactically we are bringing much more to this game than we did in the home game a year or so ago.

[tricky_colour]

Good job I checked the time of the match, it's 4PM!!
I thought it would be in the evening as per normal, obviously not, I because suspicious
when reading about people trying to get time off work - good job I checked otherwise I might have missed it.
Seems to me Slovakia have an unfair advantage as they will know our results.

1 Russia 7 16
2 Republic of Ireland 7 14
3 Slovakia 7 14
4 Armenia 7 11
5 FYROM 7 4
6 Andorra 7 0

[paul_oshea]

Good job I checked the time of the match, it's 4PM!!
I thought it would be in the evening as per normal, obviously not, I because suspicious
when reading about people trying to get time off work - good job I checked otherwise I might have missed it.
Seems to me Slovakia have an unfair advantage as they will know our results.

1 Russia 7 16
2 Republic of Ireland 7 14
3 Slovakia 7 14
4 Armenia 7 11
5 FYROM 7 4
6 Andorra 7 0

Ok I will go into work in a bermuda shirt and shorts and flip flops if we are top of the group tomorrow night. ( usual attire is open neck shirt and suit )

ANd that means nothing to anyone at work.

I will post the picture up here too as proof.

[DannyInvincible]

Good job I checked the time of the match, it's 4PM!!
I thought it would be in the evening as per normal, obviously not, I because suspicious
when reading about people trying to get time off work - good job I checked otherwise I might have missed it.
Seems to me Slovakia have an unfair advantage as they will know our results.

Maybe a good idea for someone to stick the kick-off time into the thread title if possible just in case some are still unaware that the game will be kicking off earlier than usual?

[geysir]

Trap on O'Dea and Kelly: Kelly's height is a factor in his selection ahead of Wolves' Kevin Foley.
Asked why he had opted for Kelly, who celebrates his 28th birthday tomorrow, Trapattoni said: "They are a tall team and, like Slovakia, they are very dangerous in the air."
Kelly has 1/2" on Foley. Trap must have a measuring tape in his back pocket.

[elroy]

Ive been looking at the permutations. A draw for us tomorrow I believe would give us a strong to decent chance of second. That is on the basis that Armenia may get a result in Slovakia tomorrow. If we lose tomorrow and its a draw there then its

Russia 19
Slovakia 15
Ireland 14

Presuming we win both our games, then we finish on 20. Russia will have 22 ignoring the Slovakia game and Slovakia if they beat Macedonia away would have 18. Therefore, they would need to beat Russia to finish above us. Now remember the Slovakia V Russia is not the last game, its next up after tomorrow. If we draw tomorrow and then Slovakia also draw, then we are odds on for second place.

I think best somewhat realistic scenario is a draw for us tomorrow and a draw in Slovakia. Following by two wins for us and a Slovakia win at home to Russia sees the table ending like this:
Ireland 21
Slovakia 21
Russia 20

In other words, we'd top the group. Yay!

[tricky_colour]

Maybe a good idea for someone to stick the kick-off time into the thread title if possible just in case some are still unaware that the game will be kicking off earlier than usual?



Yep I will stick a thread up if there is not one already.
Another advantage of the early kick off is that it does not clash with other matches so more chance of a decent stream.

[Noelys Guitar]

This was our team in the home game: 1 Given; 4 O'Shea, 2 St Ledger, 5 Dunne, 3 Kilbane; 7 Lawrence (14 Long (62), 6 Whelan (15 Gibson '66), 8 Green, 11 McGeady; 9 Doyle (12 Fahey '71), 10 Keane.

And that team conceded 3 goals. What difference to now?? Our defence tomorrow is probably weaker. Andrews represents an improvement on Green and Duff on Lawrence (who has failed to hit the heights of the last campaign). But can I ask this question:

Russia walked their way through this team for over an hour at home. By and large we have a very similar team to that out again tomorrow, seemingly lining up in a different formation. What is Trap going to do to make sure the same doesnt happen to us again?
Because on the face of it, it doesnt appear that tactically we are bringing much more to this game than we did in the home game a year or so ago.

Looking at the goals again a few mins ago we did contribute massively to our own downfall. Whelan turned his back (unforgivable for the first goal). Given made a mess of the initial cross. Really basic Sunday morning pub side mistakes. The third goal was a deflection off Dunne. Their second goal was a very good goal and they did carve us up for that one. Having said that the same thing could happen again tomorrow and it is up to Trap change things if we do start to get over run. The slowmo stuff won't work against these. We have to prevent them building up a head of steam. Doyle and Keane have to defend from the front.

[elroy]

Looking at the goals again a few mins ago we did contribute massively to our own downfall. Whelan turned his back (unforgivable for the first goal). Given made a mess of the initial cross. Really basic Sunday morning pub side mistakes. The third goal was a deflection off Dunne. Their second goal was a very good goal and they did carve us up for that one. Having said that the same thing could happen again tomorrow and it is up to Trap change things if we do start to get over run. The slowmo stuff won't work against these. We have to prevent them building up a head of steam. Doyle and Keane have to defend from the front.

Just had another look as well, cant believe how bad each of the goals were. Ok the third one was an unlucky deflection, but the second one particularly, we were cut open on the left hand side. Really because KK and McG were not in tandem and KK was far too deep. Ward who was prone to this on Friday will need to be wary. Really will be vital not to give Russia a good start like we did at the Aviva, need to frustrate them. The encouraging thing is that when we did seem to get at their defence they were not rock solid.

[Charlie Darwin]

If we do get a peno who is going to take it? Keane missed his last one. Doyle just missed one for Wolves. I would let Whelan take it.
Keane, then McGeady or Duff. You always get your best technical strikers of the ball to take a penalty. Frank Lampard is the bizarre exception to this rule.

[CraftyToePoke]

Keane, then McGeady or Duff. You always get your best technical strikers of the ball to take a penalty. Frank Lampard is the bizarre exception to this rule.

Would you trust Keane with a spot kick tomorrow night?

[DannyInvincible]

Keane, then McGeady or Duff. You always get your best technical strikers of the ball to take a penalty.

McGeady's one of our best technical strikers of the ball? He has his magic, but it's no surprise that most of the footage of McGeady's best shots on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mcgeady+shots&aq=f) is taken from computer games.

[Charlie Darwin]

Would you trust Keane with a spot kick tomorrow night?
I'd have trusted him more before Friday, but yeah I would trust him more than any of our other players. I'd trust Fahey more probably but he's injured.


McGeady's one of our best technical strikers of the ball? He has his magic, but it's no surprise that most of the footage of McGeady's best shots on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mcgeady+shots&aq=f) is taken from computer games.
That's a bit harsh. Zipping in balls from the touchline isn't his forte but he has a much more delicate and precise touch when he gets around the box. I'm sure there a few clips of goals he's set up for Spartak that illustrate that.

[zero]

mcgeady has a great technical ability of putting the ball about two yards wide of the near post. i sometimes wonder why he doesn't just aim for the far post in all situations as he's clearly unable to strike it where he wishes.

i'd still fancy him to take a pen over duff though.

[DannyInvincible]

That's a bit harsh. Zipping in balls from the touchline isn't his forte but he has a much more delicate and precise touch when he gets around the box. I'm sure there a few clips of goals he's set up for Spartak that illustrate that.

The second line was semi-frivolous. However, I just can't get that abiding image out of my head of him cutting inside into a great position and dragging a shot wide of the near post with his right foot. I do recognise other traits and strengths of his that are invaluable to the team and will defend his inclusion, and him as a player, on that basis, but I'm just not convinced shooting is one of the stronger parts of his game. 1 goal in over 40 appearances tells its own story really, and it's not like he's never been in great positions to score.

If I was to fancy someone with a penalty other than Robbie, I think Andrews could do a good job. He has a pretty good shot on him. Or Richard Dunne; I think he could toe it right through the keeper.

[gastric]

A bit scared about tonight after Friday's performance and our game against Russia last year. Our midfield need to play better tonight and Whelan and Andrews need to attack rather than just sitting and holding in midfield. If this happens it means McGeady and Duff will not be so isolated and Doyle and Keane will not have to play so deep. There will be a lot of pressure on Dunne to galvanise what will possibly be a nervy defensive unit too. Judgement Day has arrived! Let's beat the Commies!

[Kingdom]

Lads did anyone read the sunday times, and about Doyle being ****ed off on Friday? Said trap was only making excuses. It showed in his game and makes sense.

I read a bit of it. I'm finding myself clenching my fist when reading Irish soccer columns with a lot more regularity these days.
I wouldn't normally say this, but, if Doyle wasn't injured, and word emitted letting on that was the case, hence Long being picked, and then Long gets injured, then Kev does have a right to be peeved. I've never once got the impression he's an ego - the opposite actually. If the manager wants to pick a different side, then do so, and call it as it is, don't go round making up stories.



More info Paul. Mor info. I'm guessing Doyle is ****ed off at Trap for going on about some injury Doyle supposedly has. A touch of the Steven Reid about it. Am I right?

I'll try and reprint the article if I have time tomorrow.


Yep ye got it one noely
saying that he is just using it as an excuse for dropping him. To be honest i didn't think Doyle was like that and i don't like to see that in a player like him. But it definitely makes sense as however injured he has been in the past he gave his all but Friday he looked somewhat subdued/disinterested. In the same piece it quoted trap saying 'i will show you' in reference to bringing Doyle on(as in doyles mentality) in the last 30 mins against Russia - had long not been injured for the last 2.

Exactly pos. Doyle has both injured himself and played through injury for us - with no complaint. He's been battered for the good of the team for long enough. If the manager wants to change things around, he should do just that and say just that. The comment of Doyle getting one over when coming on as a sub was just petty- if it's accurate.


Doyle looked like an imposter on friday, absolute shadow of himself. I've heard various people say he appeared to be 'sulking' which would be very out of character. But... he was dropped before Long's injury and I could swear Trap said something about him being worried about his knee injury. Shades of the Steven Reid situation there.

Doyle won't retire on us. Nor is he at the knackers yard either. First half he wasn't bad, he won some good ball and layed off some decent ball in good positions, but the two fouls in consecutive plays didn't look great.

[Kingdom]

The Russians didn't go hell for leather against the Macedonians. And started to drop deep as soon as they went 1-0 up. The Macedonians had one great chacne to equalise but fluffed it. So a 0-0 tomorrow is not beyond the bounds. German ref so hopefully won't be a homer. If we do get a peno who is going to take it? Keane missed his last one. Doyle just missed one for Wolves. I would let Whelan take it. And the first thing Whelan or Andrews should do tomorrow night is clobber Arshavin in a way that avoids a yellow card. In the very first minute of the game.

The next game is away to Andorra, so none of the players on a yellow should worry about picking one up.
Peno duties? McGeady has a good spot kick on him. Robbie's blip on penalties is just that, a blip. Whelan would be a good shout too actually.
Robbie, McG, Whelan.

[DannyInvincible]

McGeady attempting an interview in Russian:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvqhC5jVCAw

Kudos.

[Kingdom]

Kelly has 1/2" on Foley. Trap must have a measuring tape in his back pocket.

Yep, It's a crock of **** that one alright. If he wants backs to the wall defending, then he's gone for the right man perhaps! If he wants to defend, retain possession and actually do something with the ball, then he should pick Foley.

Let's face it, he doesn't like Foley.

[Kingdom]

A bit scared about tonight after Friday's performance and our game against Russia last year. Our midfield need to play better tonight and Whelan and Andrews need to attack rather than just sitting and holding in midfield. If this happens it means McGeady and Duff will not be so isolated and Doyle and Keane will not have to play so deep. There will be a lot of pressure on Dunne to galvanise what will possibly be a nervy defensive unit too. Judgement Day has arrived! Let's beat the Commies!

I'll be honest, I've no issue with the back 4 as a defensive unit. I actually think we might be a bit stronger at the back tomorrow. O'Dea doesn't do pressure, and he's been more than capable for us when it matters. In fact, if he does well tomorrow, and we get a positive result, I'd be inclined to keep him there. He'd been in the last two games and not put a foot wrong (DUnne was at fault for the Mace goal).
As I wrote elsewhere, one of the problems last October was not knowing how to deal with the Russian's fluid formation. Something people forget though, is that we were all over Russia for the first 9 mins and should have been a goal up. Then we handed them one on a plate. Blame Whelan for the goal being scored, but it was Shay Given that made the decisive error for the goal, and even when the shot was taken, it needed a deflection. That changed the whole ethos of the game, as we needed to play riskier football. It was only when they got the sucker punch did they put moves together and pick us apart. Slovakia use a less refined system, but the signs are there that we are learning. Ward stuck to Weiss, with the winger covering to good effect.

While I do think there is a better formation for the type of players we have available, one that doesn't necessarily rely on Robbie dropping back, that is a moot point at the moment, but the alternative that he is going to employ can work. It just means we have to be more effecient on and off the ball. I still believe we are only a couple of players and unfortunately a more positive manager away from breaking through the ceiling we're under. Whether we can last the pace until then is a different story.

Given, for a country and playing resources of our size, our pretty exceptional away results over the past 4 years, I wouldn't be surprised with a draw tomorrow. Unfortunately I think we need the win; and with doubts over Doyle and McGeady's fitness, the ability of the back 4, allied to the absence of Long, Coleman, O'Shea, I just can't see us being composed enough, for long enough, to get the win.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good job I checked the time of the match, it's 4PM!!
I thought it would be in the evening as per normal, obviously not, I because suspicious
when reading about people trying to get time off work - good job I checked otherwise I might have missed it.
Seems to me Slovakia have an unfair advantage as they will know our results.

Largely due to the Russians deciding their own KO time and that our lads will fly back straight after, so we can't really blame the Slovaks for this one.

We had any 'advantage' when they played in Armenia...

[DannyInvincible]

Came across this as well:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqyjTNeDrds

It's footage from our 1986 World Cup qualifying game in the Luzhniki Stadium against the USSR in October of 1985. We lost 2-0 but Seamus McDonagh had a good game in goals pulling off some impressive saves.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'd trust Fahey more probably but he's injured.

Id trust Long as well, also out though, his tail is up at the moment and he took a number for Reading last season as well. In the unlikely event of us getting one, and Robbie going on to miss it, his detractors will have a solid case for his misses being the sole reason we dont qualify, and I wouldnt be fully confident of him at present to knock one in.

As for the game, I can see us needing to soak a lot of pressure up and a draw is probably our best hope, our chance was V Slovakia in this group and we had the chances to do them in both games, but didnt. Its a little bit steep from here on in for us, and the performance on Friday has left me doubtful we have this in us.

Ireland to win 1-0, Keane from the spot, with McGeady having dived then.

[Fixer82]

I broke up with my girlfriend of 3 years a few hours ago.
I REALLY need Ireland to get a result later. I feel like absolute sh1t!

[CraftyToePoke]

I broke up with my girlfriend of 3 years a few hours ago.
I REALLY need Ireland to get a result later. I feel like absolute sh1t!

Who pulled the trigger?

[DannyInvincible]

Ireland to win 1-0, Keane from the spot, with McGeady having dived then.

That's the real debate; who'd win this penalty? I'd favour Duff. He has had years of experience to perfect the art and has even dived successfully for us on the biggest stage. In saying that, McGeady has spent the last year or so under the influence of them foreign coaches. It's a tough call.

[CraftyToePoke]

That's the real debate; who'd win this penalty? I'd favour Duff. He has had years of experience to perfect the art and has even dived successfully for us on the biggest stage. In saying that, McGeady has spent the last year or so under the influence of them foreign coaches. It's a tough call.

Duff would have been the man at one point but he rarely gets up enough of a head of steam these days to dive with any credibility, it would also require him being in posession inside the Russian penalty area.

I chose McGeady as he earns his living there and would have to go back to face the music every week in one of those tales only sport can provide.

I would say Hunt could be a man who could go down like he had been sniped if the opportunity were to present. And surface moments later with that leery smirk on him.

[Fixer82]

Who pulled the trigger?

i did. Which makes me feel really great about myself :(

[tricky_colour]

I don't want to be pessimistic but we have not got a point off Russia in a completive match since the war.
We have lost all four away games.

Don't get your hopes too high!!

[Colbert Report]

i did. which makes me feel wonderful about myself ;(

Well, why are you looking for sympathy? I wonder how the poor girl feels?

[AlaskaFox]

What's all this Keane missed his last penalty nonsense? He missed in Slovakia last October, but he scored against Russia a few days before that, and then converted from the spot in the Carling Nations Cup against Northern Ireland in May. So he's going into this game having scored his last penalty.

[AlaskaFox]

I don't want to be pessimistic but we have not got a point off Russia in a completive match since the war.
We have lost all four away games.

Don't get your hopes too high!!

Don Givens.

[TerryPhelan]

I don't want to be pessimistic but we have not got a point off Russia in a completive match since the war.
We have lost all four away games.

Don't get your hopes too high!!

Damien Duff, 2003.

[AlaskaFox]

Euro 88 too and Mexico 86 qualifiers.

[DannyInvincible]

Euro 88 too and Mexico 86 qualifiers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EDQNJmiVsg

[Fixer82]

Well, why are you looking for sympathy? I wonder how the poor girl feels?

I'm not looking for sympathy. I feel terrible. These things are not exactly black and white.
She feels terrible. I feel terrible. We're both miserable.

And the only thing that will take my mind off it and take me slightly out of my misery is a good result in Russia

[DannyInvincible]

What's all this Keane missed his last penalty nonsense? He missed in Slovakia last October, but he scored against Russia a few days before that, and then converted from the spot in the Carling Nations Cup against Northern Ireland in May. So he's going into this game having scored his last penalty.

Good point actually. Why would there be an increased likelihood that Robbie might miss a penalty today?

[AlaskaFox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EDQNJmiVsg

Looking back I think tricky meant a point in Russia, but still, we've plenty of great performances against them!

[Fixer82]

AFAIK that's the only penalty he ever missed for Ireland?? Since Harte's omission from the Ireland set-up Robbie has taken our penos consistently and been very consistent in scoring them. Every penalty taker misses one or two, even John Aldridge missed a couple in his day

[DannyInvincible]

A few things to consider... We've never lost an away game under Trap. Russia will be missing midfield all-rounder Igor Denisov. And Malafeev, their goalie, has a shot-stopping technique that gives me the impression he'd be more suited to back-row volleyball.

On that basis, I think we'll lose only 2-0.

[DannyInvincible]

In all seriousness, I actually have no idea how today will go. We could be absolutely slaughtered, or we could clinch a famous, heroic victory that'll go down in the annals of Irish football. Or it could be a dire no-score bore draw...

I'll go with 1-0 to us though, by the skin of our teeth; Robbie to score the rebound after first missing his penalty. :p

[Duggie]

ya i think we all fear a slaughter in the back of our minds like in dublin but im hopefull. we will defo get a few chances so if we could just take them............please take them

[Fixer82]

All I can realistically see is a brave fight from Ireland but ultimately an early goal to the Russians that will be the difference

[geysir]

We have the same ref (Felix Brych) who refereed the play-off against France. I think he's a bit of allright - reckoned to be one of the top refs.

I hope we can keep the hoofs down below a respectable 50.

[Stuttgart88]

Came across this as well:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqyjTNeDrds

It's footage from our 1986 World Cup qualifying game in the Luzhniki Stadium against the USSR in October of 1985. We lost 2-0 but Seamus McDonagh had a good game in goals pulling off some impressive saves.

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/soccer/back-in-moscow-with-old-comrades-166618.html

Great article by Mackey (as usual).

[Stuttgart88]

OK, I think we're all singing from the same hymn sheet here.

We all have concerns about our defence. Ward looked a bit stage-struck on Friday. O'Dea frightens us all a bit, despite having shown great natural confidence, leadership and aggression in his previous outings. Some are a bit afraid of Kelly, but Foley has has looked shakier at RB in my opinion. Hopefully Kelly will get forward.

Midfield two need to stand up and be counted. I watched a bit of Slovakia game again on telly last night and Andrews was actually involved in a few of our best moves - e.g., setting up Duff for a shot. It’s unfair to judge him on his embarrassing dribble into touch. We need more of the assertive Andrews tonight. I'd also like to see Duff & McGeady switching, which they didn't do once on Friday.

I say this before every away game, and made the point particularly strongly before Paris. We WILL get chances. We HAVE to take them.

It's a football match FFS. The underdog can always win a football match.

Moral courage lads.

[AlaskaFox]

Russia press reporting:
------------------Malafeev-----------------

Anyukov - Ignashevich - V Berezutski -Zhirkov

-------------------Arshavin-----------------

-------------Shirokov - Semshov------------

--Zyryanov---------------------Kerzhakov---

-----------------Pavlyuchenko--------------