Russia v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 6th September 2011 - Euro 2012 Qualifier [Archive] - Page 2

Noelys Guitar

04/09/2011, 1:18 PM

BonnieShels

04/09/2011, 1:20 PM

Why not stick Hunt in midfield. He often moves into the center when playing for Wolves. He has the energy to get up and down. And he will get stuck in. The Russians would not like playing against him. After Friday nights game I can't work out what Whelan and especailly Andrews are doing. If your not looking for the ball then at least get stuck in. Doing neither of these things is costing us.

There's always a fear with Hunty that he could potentially do something mental and have a yellow after 10min and imagine if he was in the centre the risk of that could be even greater.

geysir

04/09/2011, 1:27 PM

In the few minutes he was on the pitch he managed to wander over to the wrong side, when Ward went looking for him to pass to ball to, there was no Hunt to be seen, some evidence to back Charlie's claim that the lad lacks the spatial awareness to be in the middle.

paul_oshea

04/09/2011, 1:44 PM

the bear

04/09/2011, 1:53 PM

i was the one saying i'd like to see hunt in cm a few months ago, however away to russia in a crucial qualifier is not the place to try it.

if o'shea is out that will prob mean a back 4 of:
Foley Dunne O'Dea Ward

That is bound to lead to a few shakey moments, foley and ward have looked very nervous playng for us and o'dea can blow hot or cold.

Then what to do with the midfield? do we play an extra man and go 451 or stick with 442, 451 does sound appealling but who are we supposed to throw in. Lawrence or mccarthy are the only other options in the squad i think. jaysus maybe throwing hunt in as an extra man in a 3 man midfield is a serious option.

if we do go with a lone man up front presumably he won't drop keane. this role doesn't suit keane i don't think . long would have been ideal. doyle if fit could play there but just can't see him dropping keane.

all in all i expect trap to play442, the back four i mentioned above and the same mid and forwards as friday (maybe cox for doyle) , please god given is fit. and whelan and andrews can really up their games

mark12345

04/09/2011, 1:57 PM

I've watched Robbie Keane play for years and I think his best position is at the top of the diamond, and in behind the front two as well. However, this formation would get us eaten alive against the likes of Russia. We're likely to get sliced and diced with two holding midfielders right in front of the back four. How do you think we'd fare with only one there?

We'd fare ok if we were able to hold the ball and create. Robbie and Duff, and McGeady in his own inimitable way, are the only players on the park we have who can take a pass, hold the ball, and turn it into something positive. With those three in the middle, playing more compactly things would work. Maybe we need just the three of them with McCarthy showing for the ball from the defence and working it forward to them. Point is however, we need Robbie to drop back to create openings for the front two. There were no openings created from play on Friday night last.

Sullivinho

04/09/2011, 1:59 PM

After Friday nights game I can't work out what Whelan and especailly Andrews are doing. If your not looking for the ball then at least get stuck in. Doing neither of these things is costing us.

Beyond any limitation in ability, there's a certain meekness about them that doesn't help. Although I s'pose you could say the same about Kinsella and Holland and they weren't a bad partnership on the big occasion. I'd greatly appreciate it if some members of the Russian team, preferably those in any way fluent in english language insults of the mother-invoking variety, would take it upon themselves to provoke the pair of them immediately before kickoff on tuesday. I doubt a true nasty b@stard lurks within either but at the very least a repeat of the Andrews/Diarra confrontation after the home playoff against France would be a great prelude to the game and the atmosphere in general. Stoic gentlemen that they are though, I don't think the Russians will oblige.

the bear

04/09/2011, 2:02 PM

Beyond any limitation in ability, there's a certain meekness about them that doesn't help. Although I s'pose you could say the same about Kinsella and Holland and they weren't a bad partnership on the big occasion. I'd greatly appreciate it if some members of the Russian team, preferably those in any way fluent in english language insults of the mother-invoking variety, would take it upon themselves to provoke the pair of them immediately before kickoff on tuesday. I doubt a true nasty b@stard lurks within either but at the very least a repeat of the Andrews/Diarra confrontation after the home playoff against France would be a great prelude to the game and the atmosphere in general. Stoic gentlemen that they are though, I don't think the Russians will oblige.

if either of them read this website their bound to be ****ed off

geysir

04/09/2011, 2:27 PM

I think its his personality as much as anything.that old fashioned gaelic football attribute of head down and get on with it. not having the cop/cuteness or maybe just innate skill to step back and think for a second
Seeing as you had such a hard time making it in a direct fashion from a nearby pub to Craven Cottage, I suspect you may have a similar spatial awareness personality as Hunt.

Noelys Guitar

04/09/2011, 2:41 PM

Likely team for Tuesday
Westwood (Given should not play. Definetely looked uncomfortable against Slovakia. Carrying two different injuries back and groin is too much)
Foley/Kelly Dunne O'Dea Ward
Duff Whelan Andrews McGeady
Keane Doyle

Sullivinho

04/09/2011, 3:10 PM

I think Trap has more of a gr� for Kelly so he'll probably get the nod. Strong potential for error in that defense as well-meaning as they are. The rest of 'em could hardly not improve on their previous performances so that's something I s'pose.

Paddy Garcia

04/09/2011, 3:27 PM

That defense will need a decent CM partnership protecting it.

I can't recall the CM pairing in the summer friendly's, but I suspect it was a missed opportunity to try something different - if something different even exists! Id add that I don't think Green is the answer - unless the question is whats the shirt colour!

Its the most important part of the park and dictates whether we spend the game on the back or front foot.

Paddy Garcia

04/09/2011, 3:36 PM

Beyond any limitation in ability, there's a certain meekness about them that doesn't help. Although I s'pose you could say the same about Kinsella and Holland and they weren't a bad partnership on the big occasion. I'd greatly appreciate it if some members of the Russian team, preferably those in any way fluent in english language insults of the mother-invoking variety, would take it upon themselves to provoke the pair of them immediately before kickoff on tuesday. I doubt a true nasty b@stard lurks within either but at the very least a repeat of the Andrews/Diarra confrontation after the home playoff against France would be a great prelude to the game and the atmosphere in general. Stoic gentlemen that they are though, I don't think the Russians will oblige.

I think they were both captains of teams in the English top division (whatever it was/is called). This suggests some leadership qualities, which to be fair were often evidenced in a green shirt.

A reprise of the attitude in the French away leg would certainly help though.

Morbo

04/09/2011, 4:24 PM

I see that Castrol calculation site updated their calculations today, so what I'd posted earlier seems to be how they rated our chances prior to the Slovakia game. Here is how they rate the chances of ourselves, Russia and Slovakia now.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/GroupCalculatorSVK_med_1e074c3424f63f89cadd1fa8498 e24b5.png

They still predict that we're most likely to finish second; just that our chance of qualifying is slightly less than it was before Friday night whilst the chances of the other two are rated as slightly higher.

They only gave Slovakia a 1.8% chance of winning the group and a 7% chance of qualifying prior to Friday? :rofl: Madness, I can't take any of their other stats too seriously after that.

Stuttgart88

04/09/2011, 4:44 PM

I think Trap has more of a gr� for Kelly so he'll probably get the nod. That's what I think too.

DannyInvincible

04/09/2011, 6:07 PM

They only gave Slovakia a 1.8% chance of winning the group and a 7% chance of qualifying prior to Friday? :rofl: Madness, I can't take any of their other stats too seriously after that.

Those estimations are post-Friday, which I think is strange. Prior to Friday, they were actually giving Slovakia a 1.5% chance of winning the group and a 6.6% chance of qualifying.

DannyInvincible

04/09/2011, 6:09 PM

Sullivinho

04/09/2011, 6:22 PM

Those estimations are post-Friday, which I think is strange. Prior to Friday, they were actually giving Slovakia a 1.5% chance of winning the group and a 6.6% chance of qualifying.

Well, it's Castrol. So fume inhalation can't be ruled out as a contributing factor. :D

DannyInvincible

04/09/2011, 6:35 PM

Well, it's Castrol. So fume inhalation can't be ruled out as a contributing factor. :D

Actually, sack the drink. Make mine a Castrol.

Fergie's Son

04/09/2011, 6:53 PM

In essence, we can't afford to lose to Russia. We get a draw and win our remaining games then we may sneak it via the play-offs. Too simple an analysis?

pineapple stu

04/09/2011, 7:03 PM

Too simple an analysis?
Not really. Basically, Slovakia have to beat our result in Russia now - if we finish level on points, we're ahead of them on head to head (away goals). If we draw in Moscow and win the last two (and we should do the latter anyway), then Slovakia have to win their last three games to come second (and they'd probably come first with that).

That said, given the injury list we have, it's hard to see us getting anything in Moscow.

DannyInvincible

04/09/2011, 7:31 PM

Not really. Basically, Slovakia have to beat our result in Russia now - if we finish level on points, we're ahead of them on head to head (away goals). If we draw in Moscow and win the last two (and we should do the latter anyway), then Slovakia have to win their last three games to come second (and they'd probably come first with that).

Not quite, given a draw for Slovakia against Russia and two wins in their other games means they'd top the group if we also draw with Russia.

pineapple stu

04/09/2011, 7:33 PM

Ah yes. That poxy three-way tie... Bugger.

ifk101

04/09/2011, 8:00 PM

Dunne and O'Dea isn't the quickest of pairings. Ideally I'd play Kelly as Dunne's partner but I don't think we can start Foley at RB.

BonnieShels

04/09/2011, 8:13 PM

Ah yes. That poxy three-way tie... Bugger.

It really is such an illogical pile of bawlls to decide a group. why not just draw lots. We always do well there...

Noelys Guitar

04/09/2011, 9:01 PM

Is it going to be Doyle or Cox up front alongside Keane? Arshavin was on about Ireland and the long ball whole game and then even more long ball earlier on today. He has a point. Why are we launching the ball from Dunne up to Cox and Keane? Or to Doyle and Keane if it becomes clear Doyle is not winning his headers. I don't care if we play long ball the whole night but there has to be a decent target man winning the ball.

shakermaker1982

04/09/2011, 9:05 PM

I'd go Doyle. He cannot play any worse that he did Friday. Key player for us and will hopefully come good.

Colbert Report

04/09/2011, 9:07 PM

Serious point here. Why is Caleb Folan or Leon Best not in the squad, even if it is just to throw them on for the last twenty minutes of long balls?

AlaskaFox

04/09/2011, 9:19 PM

Bring back Gary Doherty! But to answer your question, both of them harmed their chances by not turning up for friendlies.

Colbert Report

04/09/2011, 9:23 PM

Wow! Whatever about Leon Best, I didn't know Caleb Folan was in a position to turn down invitations to friendlies. Unreal!

paul_oshea

04/09/2011, 9:34 PM

Lads did anyone read the sunday times, and about Doyle being ****ed off on Friday? Said trap was only making excuses. It showed in his game and makes sense.

Noelys Guitar

04/09/2011, 9:41 PM

Lads did anyone read the sunday times, and about Doyle being ****ed off on Friday? Said trap was only making excuses. It showed in his game and makes sense.
More info Paul. Mor info. I'm guessing Doyle is ****ed off at Trap for going on about some injury Doyle supposedly has. A touch of the Steven Reid about it. Am I right?

paul_oshea

04/09/2011, 9:47 PM

Yep ye got it one noely
saying that he is just using it as an excuse for dropping him. To be honest i didn't think Doyle was like that and i don't like to see that in a player like him. But it definitely makes sense as however injured he has been in the past he gave his all but Friday he looked somewhat subdued/disinterested. In the same piece it quoted trap saying 'i will show you' in reference to bringing Doyle on(as in doyles mentality) in the last 30 mins against Russia - had long not been injured for the last 2.

Sullivinho

04/09/2011, 9:48 PM

Lads did anyone read the sunday times, and about Doyle being ****ed off on Friday? Said trap was only making excuses. It showed in his game and makes sense.

Doyle looked like an imposter on friday, absolute shadow of himself. I've heard various people say he appeared to be 'sulking' which would be very out of character. But... he was dropped before Long's injury and I could swear Trap said something about him being worried about his knee injury. Shades of the Steven Reid situation there.

pineapple stu

05/09/2011, 8:31 AM

It really is such an illogical pile of bawlls to decide a group. why not just draw lots. We always do well there...
Read somewhere that UEFA started favouring it after Spain needed to beat Malta by 11 goals to qualify and did so, ousting Holland on goal difference. Maybe it helps reduce match fixing in those kind of games too? There's been a fair few instances in club football of dodgy big results on the final day as two teams rig their games to edge the other on goal difference; this system stops that.

It is still silly though.

BonnieShels

05/09/2011, 8:40 AM

That's a good point but its application is very clumsy.

That in a 3 way tie we finish third but in a 2 way tie with Slovakia we finish first whilst making sense is laughable in that it clearly seems clunky.

BonnieShels

05/09/2011, 8:53 AM

As an aside... I've got that gooey day before an Ireland match feeling.

Come on Ireland!

Longest day ever ahead.

elroy

05/09/2011, 9:12 AM

Surprised Trap hasnt called up Walters as a replacement for Long. He obviously believes he has enough cover in Cox (I have a feeling he might start Cox on Tuesday), who has admitted he struggles on the artificial surface.

Philly

05/09/2011, 9:34 AM

With JOSH returning to England injured I am now very, very worried. We need Dunne and co. to have one hell of a game tomorrow.

koneinc

05/09/2011, 9:51 AM

Wow! Whatever about Leon Best, I didn't know Caleb Folan was in a position to turn down invitations to friendlies. Unreal!

Sure isn't Folan out in Colorado these days, must be a tough trip back from the US ;-)

bwagner

05/09/2011, 10:10 AM

I think we will start strong/solid then just be over run by the Russian midfield and attack 0-2, Just like always we are so predictable and have no plan B, oh Andy Keogh might come off the bench ....russians will poo their nappies ...ya!

geysir

05/09/2011, 10:11 AM

Rte announced the team, Given, Kelly, ODea and Doyle, all start.

tetsujin1979

05/09/2011, 10:22 AM

team announced: https://twitter.com/#!/FAIreland/statuses/110656470470754306

Starting XI for Russia: Given, Kelly, Dunne, O'Dea, Ward, Andrews, Whelan, McGeady, Duff, Keane, Doyle #IreRus (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23IreRus)

ArdeeBhoy

05/09/2011, 10:35 AM

St. Ledger is suspended, right?

I fear for us, looking down the barrel here.
Still, the Euros is not the World Cup.
:(

bwagner

05/09/2011, 10:37 AM

yawn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bwagner

05/09/2011, 10:42 AM

bye bye euros, my god are they ever goan freshen things up, Kelly never gets a game at Fulham. Predictable as hell, sure he fully deserves the massive wage he is on. Master of the art of having midfield without having a midfield

tommy_c12000

05/09/2011, 11:12 AM

Not surprised at all by the selection. Trap never has changed anything drastically throughout his career and he's not going to start now. The ultra conservative, sticks with the tried and tested.

Foley has not started any Prem games so far this season although he has more game time than Kelly. Trap is more familiar with Kelly so that's why he went with him. O'Dea impressed Trap V Italy, but he really didn't have much other choice with Clark not in squad.

Andrews' legs were gone after 60 mins fri night. It really was embarrassing watching him play. McCarthy should have come on at that time, no question. By leaving Andrews on, it meant Ireland effectively played the last 30 mins with 10 men. Crazy stuff. My one hope is that Andrews is taken off in this game early in 2nd half because he simply is not fit enuf for 90 mins of international football at the moment, especially in Moscow. But with McCarthy being the only alternative option, Trap may well decide to play him for the full 90.

Trap has often gone about that he could well play different systems depending on the occasion. Moscow was one occasion that I thought he may well throw McCarthy in a 5 man midfield because with only Andrews and Whelan in the middle, that could well be torn apart tomorrow night (in fact this is probably inevitable but don't want to sound too pessimistic). On one previous occasion, he tried 4-4-1-1 but this didn't work because he had McCarthy playing in the hole behind the striker which is not McCarthy's position. He ended up playing the role of the headless chicken. McCarthy needs to be deeper orchestrating play from the back and making attacking runs from deep. Trap has opted for a flat 4-4-2 again tomorrow night (brave but positive decision I suppose), although I would have preferred to have seen a 4-5-1 with McCarthy in.

shakermaker1982

05/09/2011, 11:34 AM

Whelan and Andrews have to play out of their skin tomorrow night if we are going to get a famous win in Moscow.

I just hope that for 90 minutes they play like men possessed to make up for the fact that they'll be outnumbered in midfield. Will lightning strike twice (the Dublin massacre last year) or does the Trap have something up his sleeve?