Russia v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 6th September 2011 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[Murfinator]

Frail defence, would have particular concerns over O'Dea and Ward. Neither are international class.

Obvious worries about the midfield but we'll see what happens. If history repeats itself against Russia and Trap has come in without a revised plan to contain their midfield he'll have nowhere to hide.

[Charlie Darwin]

Andrews' legs were gone after 60 mins fri night. It really was embarrassing watching him play.
I didn't see any evidence. I did see Andrews make several lung-busting runs into the box in the final ten minutes though.


McCarthy should have come on at that time, no question.
McCarthy wasn't named on the bench, rightly or wrongly.


On one previous occasion, he tried 4-4-1-1 but this didn't work because he had McCarthy playing in the hole behind the striker which is not McCarthy's position. He ended up playing the role of the headless chicken. McCarthy needs to be deeper orchestrating play from the back and making attacking runs from deep. Trap has opted for a flat 4-4-2 again tomorrow night (brave but positive decision I suppose), although I would have preferred to have seen a 4-5-1 with McCarthy in.
That's not really McCarthy's game either, though. He sits deep and allows other players to make the incisive runs forward, like Scholes. In other words, he needs to be surrounded by good midfielders to really affect the game.

[Murfinator]

Andrews improved as the game opened up, he did his only worthwhile actions in the last 20 minutes and was a passenger before that. What game were you watching?

[Duggie]

Andrews improved as the game opened up, he did his only worthwhile actions in the last 20 minutes and was a passenger before that. What game were you watching?

are u joking? last fri night i think andrews gave the worst performance a professional footballer could give. he was so bad its wasnt funny. at one point he was out near the sideline and he got so confused it seemed the ball just went out for a throw in to slovakia. he wouldnt want another performance like that.

[bwagner]

Did I mention world beaters with international experience >?>>?????????/????

[zero]

i thought andrews was better than whelan. ward looked decent enough though there was always a concern he'd get caught out.

[tommy_c12000]

I didn't see any evidence. I did see Andrews make several lung-busting runs into the box in the final ten minutes though.

McCarthy wasn't named on the bench, rightly or wrongly.

That's not really McCarthy's game either, though. He sits deep and allows other players to make the incisive runs forward, like Scholes. In other words, he needs to be surrounded by good midfielders to really affect the game.

Around the 60 minute mark, Andrews was out hugging the left touchline. He attempted to drag back the ball but the ball just went embarassingly out of play. It was a classic moment of his mind knew what he wanted to do, but his body was so tired it couldn't respond appropriately. That is the moment when he should have come off. The only thing he contributed from that mark was a return ball in a 1-2 with Whelan.

Just saw McCarthy participating in the half time kick around so presumed he was on the bench. If this fact is true, does it mean that there were no central midfielders on the bench?? Incredible if true

Not sure what point you are making about McCarthy. I've already stated that he prefers to sit deep, build from deep, then makes surging runs forward. Yes he does need 2 players around him, like he has with Whelan and Andrews. But he certainly does not remain deep to allow others make runs, he makes most those forward runs himself. Watson just sits while he makes the runs

[EAFC_rdfl]

Here's the team sheet from Friday with the subs :rolleyes:
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro2012/matches/season=2012/round=15171/match=2002228/postmatch/lineups/index.html
Last week Tardelli had mentioned Foley as CM option so that I am guessing was the sub CM

[elroy]

Lets hold fire for now lads, god knows if it goes wrong we'll have plenty of time afterwards to criticise etc etc. Hoping for a miracle of some sort, what we'd give for a draw!!

Or even to take the lead out there.....

[Stuttgart88]

The only comforts I can take is that we played a patchwork defence against Italy and managed to eek out a win, and that after a rubbish performance at home to Russia we played quite well in Slovakia.

We played well in Paris but we had nothing to lose there. I don't see this as the same thing, as a draw is still worthwhile in Russia.

Is Long in the traveling squad?

[Duggie]

a 92min winner would be the only job, kill them off with no time for a comeback....if only

[ArdeeBhoy]

No Long, I believe.
:(

[lionelhutz]

Even if we get a draw tomorrow, we have to pray that there is a winner between Slovakia and Russia in their meeting. Cause if that ends a draw as well, we're basically ****ed!!

This is our own fault. We should have played with much more urgency on Friday and went about the game like it was make or break. Now I think we should go into the game tomorrow with a "win or bust" mindset.

On another note, is McCarthy on the bench tomorrow? Can't find the subs anywhere.

[koneinc]

No Long, I believe.
:(

Yeah, Long is out, I suppose it's Cox on the bench again

[Tipp Townie]

In essence, we can't afford to lose to Russia. We get a draw and win our remaining games then we may sneak it via the play-offs. Too simple an analysis?

You're basically spot on imho - because this is precisely how Trap will be looking at it.

Anyone on here hoping for a repeat of Paris - forget it. That really was the last chance saloon because anything less than a win would knock us out, full stop. So we HAD to go for it.

This time, there are still plenty of permutations that could work out in our favour and it would be reckless to leave any gaps for the Russians to exploit. In that respect, this campaign is beginning to remind me of USA '94 - we qualified by virtue of a solid 100% record v the 'minnows' (and 1win/1 draw v NI), whereas our head-to-head v Denmark and Spain was weakest of the three.

Don't get me wrong, i share the pessimism that a draw will be enough for us come the end of the campaign. But i'm not even going to bother convincing myself that we're going to attack. Primary objective will be to avoid defeat, and probably would have been even if we weren't so depleted in defence.
I'm also mindful (and i bet Trap is too) that history is massively against us. Yes, Slovakia won in Russia in this campaign. But they are (off the top of my head; pls do correct if wrong) only the third team EVER to win a competitive game in Russia. Intimidating stats.

I want us to go for the win. But its not in Traps nature.
I dont mean to come across as negative; just trying to be realistic. Prediction - one side of my head says we'll get murdered; the other (slightly larger!) side of my head says we'll do our usual backs-to-the-wall heroics and come away with a creditable draw. I'm not paying any attention to my heart whatsoever.

[Sullivinho]

Very apprehensive about that back four. And their fancy eastern European midfield formation swamping us (again). Hoping the lads are still stinging from the last game and in the zone to collectively play above themselves.


No Long, I believe.

24 hours 10 mins.

[Noelys Guitar]

I've got to go into work tomorrow (8am) and come up with a dinger to get out by 10am (match on here 11am). Can't call out as I have something I've got to finish. That should take about an hour. Just took a half day on Friday and on very thin ice. But no way am I missing the match. Run out of people to bury so realing scraping around looking for a good one. Anyone any ideas?

[bwagner]

your partner was took ill, sister had a baby, sister was in a car crash..

[SwanVsDalton]

The patchwork defence is interesting. Ten years ago we ended up playing Portugal in the groups with Stan and Dunney at centre back, after Breen and Cunningham (I believe) were both injured at the last minute. Dreadful trepidation but they came out of it with a draw, then the clean sheet against Holland. Stan ended up starting at the World Cup, of course. So guess we have previous when it comes to thrown together defensive partnerships. Trying to be positive about it anyway!

Team wise I'm not surprised - with O'Shea missing, Kelly's experience probably swung it. He might only have twenty odd caps but he's been around the scene a lot longer than Foley. I hope McCarthy's on the bench tomorrow at least, so we can change up CM a little. I'm thoroughly expecting Andrews and Doyle to up their games significantly - Andrews at least has to keep his concentration enough to pass the ball to a teammate five yards away...

Pretty nervous and not particularly optimistic. But I did request three points from Lenin's corpse and a Stalin impersonator today, so you never know...

[DannyInvincible]

O'Dea impressed Trap V Italy, but he really didn't have much other choice with Clark not in squad.

Why wasn't Clark called into the squad? We're very bare for defensive back-up.


I'm also mindful (and i bet Trap is too) that history is massively against us. Yes, Slovakia won in Russia in this campaign. But they are (off the top of my head; pls do correct if wrong) only the third team EVER to win a competitive game in Russia. Intimidating stats.

Well, records are there to be broken and all that. If Slovakia could do it, why not us? (At least, that should be the mentality anyway.)

[DannyInvincible]

I've got to go into work tomorrow (8am) and come up with a dinger to get out by 10am (match on here 11am). Can't call out as I have something I've got to finish. That should take about an hour. Just took a half day on Friday and on very thin ice. But no way am I missing the match. Run out of people to bury so realing scraping around looking for a good one. Anyone any ideas?

Your granny rose from the dead?

[paul_oshea]

I've got to go into work tomorrow (8am) and come up with a dinger to get out by 10am (match on here 11am). Can't call out as I have something I've got to finish. That should take about an hour. Just took a half day on Friday and on very thin ice. But no way am I missing the match. Run out of people to bury so realing scraping around looking for a good one. Anyone any ideas?

Tell them your wife is locked into the bathroom and can't get out, and her battery is dead so she cant ring a locksmith. Then tell them you should be able sort it but will have to drive home and back and it will take a couple of hours.

I think thats very plausible.

If you are not married you are fcuked obviously.

[DannyInvincible]

Tell them your wife is locked into the bathroom and can't get out, and her battery is dead so she cant ring a locksmith. Then tell them you should be able sort it but will have to drive home and back and it will take a couple of hours.

I think thats very plausible.

If you are not married you are fcuked obviously.

But how would Noeley have found out if her battery is dead? Surely he didn't depart for work leaving his poor wife locked in the bathroom? What a heartless...

[CraftyToePoke]

Tell them your wife is locked into the bathroom and can't get out, and her battery is dead so she cant ring a locksmith. Then tell them you should be able sort it but will have to drive home and back and it will take a couple of hours.

I think thats very plausible.

If you are not married you are fcuked obviously.


Ok, how does he know she is in there if her phone is dead? How did she get the word to him?

[Sullivinho]

Your granny rose from the dead?

I like this. Casually adding her name adds subtle credibility.

[DannyInvincible]

Sullivinho is spot on; being specific adds credibility. Also mention how she was your third granny.

[Wolfman]

Just tell them you're related to Stephen Ireland, enough said.

[Dodge]

I'd take a laxative and **** all over the office. Sent home, with added bonus of them not talking to you ever again

[Wolfman]

yawn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Meaning????????????????????????

[paul_oshea]

Ya cos she was your step granny.

Lads ye are so naive.use your imagination.

She went to the bathroom after you left...first call to you before battery died as any wife would....

[paul_oshea]

I'd take a laxative and **** all over the office. Sent home, with added bonus of them not talking to you ever again

Sounds like you've done this before

[BonnieShels]

Ya cos she was your step granny.

Lads ye are so naive.use your imagination.

She went to the bathroom after you left...first call to you before battery died as any wife would....

First call to the bit on the side sure?

[paul_oshea]

Ya but don't tell noely that

[OwenGoal]

Lie under your desk and make noises like Chewbacca

[Real ale Madrid]

Man up and just leave!

[ArdeeBhoy]

And start another thread next time, please?
;)

[AlaskaFox]

Foley has not started any Prem games so far this season although he has more game time than Kelly. Trap is more familiar with Kelly so that's why he went with him.

(Picked your quote out of a number of Foley/Kelly quotes).

Trap is starting Kelly because he knows him better, but aside from that Kelly has played more total minutes than Foley this season, not what everyone keeps saying.

Foley: 3 sub appearances in the Premier League, 70 minutes all counted. 1 start in the League cup, 85 minutes. 155 minutes total.
Kelly: 0 games in the Premier League. 2 starts in the Europa League v Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk and NSÍ. 180 minutes total.

[shakermaker1982]

Extreme dental pain, need an emergency dentist NG.

Unlikely I'll get on here tomorrow because of work so I'm going 1-1. We take the lead early, sit back and .....you know the drill. Heroic 'draw' and we live to fight another day. If we get stuffed then I think that's the end of the Trap. Russia are no great shakes and shouldn't be feared. Press them, put them on the back foot and let us see what they are made of. Arshavin is a little star when all is going well for him but when he is having a quiet game then he does a good impression of our central midfielders.

Whelan and Andrews have to turn up tomorrow. Just get stuck in.

Doyle will be much better.

If McGeady is still passing to the opposition from 6 yards then he has to be subbed at HT.

We have to beat a side ranked above us away from home at some point so why not tomorrow?

[Noelys Guitar]

Cheers for all the advice lads. "Got to go before I crap all over your desk Margie" would get me a lot of time off. And possibly some time served as well Dodge. But great idea all the same.

[elroy]

Russia manager Dick Advocaat has said he may start the diminutive Andrei Arshavin in defensive midfield due to the suspension of Igor Denisov who usually lines out for Russia in a holding role.

Denis Glushakov, Roman Shirokov and Igor Semshov, who played defensive midfielder under Guus Hiddink, are more conventional candidates for the position but Advocaat has been so impressed by Arshavin’s form at international level he may be prepared to play the Arsenal man in the centre.

“I also expressed my appreciation to Andrey’s display in his game against Macedonia. I’ve never seen him being so good in my team. And not just in attack, but in defensive actions also”, he said of the winger-cum-attacking midfielder.

Other than the suspension of Denisov, Russia have a fully fit squad to choose from and Advocaat says that Armenia could play a vital role in Russia’s progress to Euro 2012 while expressing his relief that Slovakia could not seal a win in the Aviva stadium on Friday night.

“We are now two points ahead of the nearest rivals and even in the case of a draw at Luzhniki, we will maintain the same gap from the Irish”, the former Rangers manager said.

“Of course, we will try to win. And if the Slovaks would have won in Dublin, it would have been the worst-case scenario because it would have denied us an opportunity to play a draw in Slovakia.”

Slovakia entertain Armenia on Tuesday evening with a 19.15 kick off meaning they will have a much clearer view of what is required to inch past Ireland in the group as the game in Russia gets under way at 16.00.


Interesting to see that the Russian mindset may not be all out attack, they may well be happy with a draw. Im not so happy with the reference to them being happy with a draw in slovakia. If we draw tomorrow, we more than likely will not want a draw in that game.

[DannyInvincible]

"Trapattoni: I always play to win": http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0905/trapattonig_ireland.html


Trapattoni said: "Every game, we go on to the pitch to win.

"If I only had what you call a defensive attitude, I wouldn't have achieved what I have achieved in 25 or 30 years as a coach.

"It's a simple philosophy: score more goals and concede fewer. That's my life.

"Our team has proved to be very well organised and when you consider what we have done up until now, if we can play with the same organisation and the same spirit, it is possible to win here in Russia.

"We are very conscious that we are playing against a strong team, a team with very good individual players who play in England and Germany and with the best Russian teams.

"But we have the same experience. We are divided by two points and a victory for us would mean that we go to the top of the table.

"Obviously, we are going to play to win, but getting a positive result is important."

On O'Dea and Kelly:


Trapattoni said: "You saw the game against Italy? [O'Dea] and Sean St Ledger were the best defenders.

"I like him. His mentality is strong and he is good in the air, so I am confident about him."
Kelly's height is a factor in his selection ahead of Wolves' Kevin Foley.

Asked why he had opted for Kelly, who celebrates his 28th birthday tomorrow, Trapattoni said: "They are a tall team and, like Slovakia, they are very dangerous in the air."

[DannyInvincible]

Interesting to see that the Russian mindset may not be all out attack, they may well be happy with a draw. Im not so happy with the reference to them being happy with a draw in slovakia. If we draw tomorrow, we more than likely will not want a draw in that game.

I've said it already, but we're being naïve if we think that game is going to end in anything other than a bore draw, unless we win tomorrow.

[ArdeeBhoy]

"Trapattoni: I always play to win."

Hmm. I somehow doubt this mantra.
If he'd said 'not concede', would be closer to the truth.

The acid test being for both around 17 hours from now.

My gut feeling is a narrow defeat.
:(

[paul_oshea]

watched the last 25 mins again there(over about 45 min period due to all the pausing/refreshing :) ) of the slovakia game, we looked for too urgent, which was probably down to nerves and inexperience. I can't understand that after all these years and caps but anyway.

Oshea looked like he was already injured in the last 20 mins, he was never going to make this game tomorrow. We also should have had a clear penalty with andrews being tugged around the neck. And duff for all his great outlet, offers us little in attack/counter attack, he holds possession well and wins frees, especially under pressure but bar the one cross for keane he doesn't really offer that much going forward anymore, which is sad to say the least.

Looking at that performance again, I did feel at the time, in the second half we were in far more control, and they were very ordinary, I'm even more convinced after watching the last 25 mins again and they really do offer very little from an attacking sense - interestingly goals for of 4 - and are almost a mirror image of us defensively. It really was a case of 2 points dropped.

I'm nervous for tomorrow because I don't see us offering any attacking threat especially if we are as paniced in possession as we appeared against Slovakia, we really need to try and get a hold of the ball tomorrow early and pass it about - if for nothing else but to get used to the pitch. I really hope Trap lets them do this.

Unfortunately, I think we will be doing well to get a draw, a score one possibly. :(

[tommy_c12000]

(Picked your quote out of a number of Foley/Kelly quotes).

Trap is starting Kelly because he knows him better, but aside from that Kelly has played more total minutes than Foley this season, not what everyone keeps saying.

Foley: 3 sub appearances in the Premier League, 70 minutes all counted. 1 start in the League cup, 85 minutes. 155 minutes total.
Kelly: 0 games in the Premier League. 2 starts in the Europa League v Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk and NSÍ. 180 minutes total.

Note I specifically said "Prem" games (unlike the other clowns), of which Foley has more game time. Fulham not overly worried about the Europa League after their exploits last season. Small squad so will prioritise the premiership, hence, Kelly won't be risked in the Prem games barring an injury crisis

[Charlie Darwin]

Russia manager Dick Advocaat has said he may start the diminutive Andrei Arshavin in defensive midfield due to the suspension of Igor Denisov who usually lines out for Russia in a holding role.

Denis Glushakov, Roman Shirokov and Igor Semshov, who played defensive midfielder under Guus Hiddink, are more conventional candidates for the position but Advocaat has been so impressed by Arshavin’s form at international level he may be prepared to play the Arsenal man in the centre.

“I also expressed my appreciation to Andrey’s display in his game against Macedonia. I’ve never seen him being so good in my team. And not just in attack, but in defensive actions also”, he said of the winger-cum-attacking midfielder.

Other than the suspension of Denisov, Russia have a fully fit squad to choose from and Advocaat says that Armenia could play a vital role in Russia’s progress to Euro 2012 while expressing his relief that Slovakia could not seal a win in the Aviva stadium on Friday night.

“We are now two points ahead of the nearest rivals and even in the case of a draw at Luzhniki, we will maintain the same gap from the Irish”, the former Rangers manager said.

“Of course, we will try to win. And if the Slovaks would have won in Dublin, it would have been the worst-case scenario because it would have denied us an opportunity to play a draw in Slovakia.”

Slovakia entertain Armenia on Tuesday evening with a 19.15 kick off meaning they will have a much clearer view of what is required to inch past Ireland in the group as the game in Russia gets under way at 16.00.


Interesting to see that the Russian mindset may not be all out attack, they may well be happy with a draw. Im not so happy with the reference to them being happy with a draw in slovakia. If we draw tomorrow, we more than likely will not want a draw in that game.


I see Dick has decided to try a Hamsik of his own. Trap will bring back the pasta analogy and all will be well.

[AlaskaFox]

Note I specifically said "Prem" games (unlike the other clowns), of which Foley has more game time. Fulham not overly worried about the Europa League after their exploits last season. Small squad so will prioritise the premiership, hence, Kelly won't be risked in the Prem games barring an injury crisis

I know, that's why the disclaimer at the start. Didn't want to trawl through a few pages of Kelly-bashing. I'd have started him too.

[IsMiseSean]

[QUOTE=elroy;1529288
Of course, we will try to win. And if the Slovaks would have won in Dublin, it would have been the worst-case scenario because it would have denied us an opportunity to play a draw in Slovakia.
[/QUOTE]

Not great hearing Dick say draw in Slovakia.
Wins for Russia & Slovakia tomorrow and they could go into the last set of fixtures knowing that 4 points could be enough to see them both go straight through.
Probably getting a bit ahead of myself here, it will all become clear tomorrow night....

[paul_oshea]

Russia manager Dick Advocaat has said he may start the diminutive Andrei Arshavin in defensive midfield due to the suspension of Igor Denisov who usually lines out for Russia in a holding role.

Denis Glushakov, Roman Shirokov and Igor Semshov, who played defensive midfielder under Guus Hiddink, are more conventional candidates for the position but Advocaat has been so impressed by Arshavin’s form at international level he may be prepared to play the Arsenal man in the centre.

“I also expressed my appreciation to Andrey’s display in his game against Macedonia. I’ve never seen him being so good in my team. And not just in attack, but in defensive actions also”, he said of the winger-cum-attacking midfielder.

Other than the suspension of Denisov, Russia have a fully fit squad to choose from and Advocaat says that Armenia could play a vital role in Russia’s progress to Euro 2012 while expressing his relief that Slovakia could not seal a win in the Aviva stadium on Friday night.

“We are now two points ahead of the nearest rivals and even in the case of a draw at Luzhniki, we will maintain the same gap from the Irish”, the former Rangers manager said.

“Of course, we will try to win. And if the Slovaks would have won in Dublin, it would have been the worst-case scenario because it would have denied us an opportunity to play a draw in Slovakia.”

Slovakia entertain Armenia on Tuesday evening with a 19.15 kick off meaning they will have a much clearer view of what is required to inch past Ireland in the group as the game in Russia gets under way at 16.00.


Interesting to see that the Russian mindset may not be all out attack, they may well be happy with a draw. Im not so happy with the reference to them being happy with a draw in slovakia. If we draw tomorrow, we more than likely will not want a draw in that game.

I'm more annoyed at the thoought of him thinking Slovakia "not winning" in Ireland and that "the slovaks would have won in Dublin". I hope someone goes up and pins all these things up on the dressing room before the game and the midfield particularly see how everyone thinks we are so boring/obvious/easily beatable and fires them up. Its really frustrating watching them not get stuck in.

[Noelys Guitar]

The Russians didn't go hell for leather against the Macedonians. And started to drop deep as soon as they went 1-0 up. The Macedonians had one great chacne to equalise but fluffed it. So a 0-0 tomorrow is not beyond the bounds. German ref so hopefully won't be a homer. If we do get a peno who is going to take it? Keane missed his last one. Doyle just missed one for Wolves. I would let Whelan take it. And the first thing Whelan or Andrews should do tomorrow night is clobber Arshavin in a way that avoids a yellow card. In the very first minute of the game.