SPA Players Unhappy

[marinobohs]

But what if they ignore that? It's already been suggested that the players' strike would have been illegal had it gone ahead. It's already been noted that the Pat's officials - volunteers, like at most clubs, I assume - were engaged in getting the team to Kazakhstan at short notice. The players seem to have ignored all the rules; you can't legislate for that.

It is already legislated for - a court injunction can (and previously has been) sought to prevent illegal (as outlined in IR Act) industrial action. Most employers are slow to go down the legal route due to cost and the residue of ill feeling that results but if it were made clear to parties that non adherence to procedures would result in legal route I would see it as a serious deterrent. I always suspected the SPA players were bluffing to a certain extent and would not have gone ahead with strike action - strike threats are very regular occurance across industry but (fortunately) rarely result in strike action.

[pineapple stu]

That's not the point though. Had the players gone through with their illegal strike, the club would have folded. That's not a typical case.

I agree the club could probably have called the players' bluff - I wouldn't have liked to do it, mind - but this was a slightly unusual case.

[Ezeikial]

Stephen McGuinness cames across as illogical and unreasonable.

To dismiss the issues of demand for appearance money and the strike statement on the basis that neither actually came to pass is bizarre.

The damage done by threatening this strike (and further compounded by declaring a strike) was significant.

The only mild positive to come out of this is that McGuinness and the PFAI are damaged goods.

[marinobohs]

That's not the point though. Had the players gone through with their illegal strike, the club would have folded. That's not a typical case.

I agree the club could probably have called the players' bluff - I wouldn't have liked to do it, mind - but this was a slightly unusual case.

If action was declared illegal (by court) PFAI could have been liable for all losses incurred. I would suggest that might have changed/tempered the PFAI view on Industrial action. Anyway, as I said legal route is not a good option (any more than brinkmanship we saw last week) and an agreed dispute resolution mechanism should be sought.

[passerrby]

Thank god for the real leader of the pfai as soon as he got involved it was sorted

[pineapple stu]

But Karpaty would have chased Pat's, and Pat's would have had to chase the PFAI. That would have ended with both bankrupt - wouldn't have saved Pat's at all.

I still think there is a dispute resolution mechanism, but the players just ignored it, and you can't legislate for that.

[Dodge]

They'd have chased Pats receivers as if the game didn't go ahead on Thursday, we were in receivership on Friday. Absolutely no question at all about that.

To be fair, when some players realised this, their attitude changed.

[Spudulika]

I hate to ask this, and it's not acting the maggot, but are things so bad at Pats that it's literally day to day? Is the cloth being cut to just about cover the body?

[WoodquayBoy]

They'd have chased Pats receivers as if the game didn't go ahead on Thursday, we were in receivership on Friday. Absolutely no question at all about that.

To be fair, when some players realised this, their attitude changed.

Not according to Mr McGuinness last night

[geezer]

say a lot of things, and their agents on committee and twitter,

The leader said last night that if the club engaed with them in july there wouldnt have been a problem. One club i know went to the pfai first before the fai or anyone else to engage with them and tell them things were going to happen the way things were going. It was thrown back in their faces, the pfaI threw a wobbly, told everyone in power the club was finished, the pfai stormed the dressing room at a game cleansing out without realising it the locals of the team.
That club continues to place the ball on the centre circle come every friday and a championships on saturday no thanks to the pfai and its nuts all over €50

[Dodge]

Not according to Mr McGuinness last night

Didn't watch it but he's told lies in the past, and I've no doubt he'll tell them again

[Charlie Darwin]

Stephen McGuinness is a straight-up, honest man. Sure he's the leader of a union for god's sake!

[Spudulika]

Have to say the debate on MNS came across as pretty okay. I don't know how much I'd believe of Richie, he made some decent poitns but it was clear El Jefe from the PFAI didn't like some of the less than truthful things Richie had been spinning. The funny thing about Richie is he has so many stories, yet never seems to come up with the goods.

They all agreed on one thing, the league came out of it worse and all sides messed up.

[Ezeikial]

I don't know how much I'd believe of Richie, he made some decent poitns but it was clear El Jefe from the PFAI didn't like some of the less than truthful things Richie had been spinning.

What did Sadlier say or write that you believe is "less than truthful"?


The funny thing about Richie is he has so many stories, yet never seems to come up with the goods.


What does this mean?

[Spudulika]

Read some of his back articles, listen to some of his interviews. He's entertaining, not stupid, but certainly not what he tries to portray. He's a different voice but not reliable.

[Dodge]

Seeing as you were talking about the exchanges between McGuinness and Sadlier, would you care to stop waffling and answer Ezekial?

[Charlie Darwin]

The one that, at least from my recollection, McGuinness explicitly denied was that some players had offered to break the picket and fulfill the fixture. I don't think Sadlier took him up on it.

[sullanefc]

The one that, at least from my recollection, McGuinness explicitly denied was that some players had offered to break the picket and fulfill the fixture. I don't think Sadlier took him up on it.

I'd imagine if Sadlier took him to task over that issue, then he might have found himself in a situation where he would have had to name names to prove his point, or maybe say something that he didn't want to say on TV. He obviously didn't want to go down that route.

I found it stupid when McGuinness said that the players took to the field without any bonuses as if they should be applauded for it. Well why the f*ck did they ask for bonus so? And why did they threaten to go on strike?

[Dodge]

The one that, at least from my recollection, McGuinness explicitly denied was that some players had offered to break the picket and fulfill the fixture. I don't think Sadlier took him up on it.

McGuinness is 100% wrong on this. And no, I won't be naming names either

[A face]

Stephen McGuinness is a straight-up, honest man. Sure he's the leader of a union for god's sake!

Well he got his butt kicked and handed back to him on MNS, he came across and reactionary and OTT in the path he and the players chose, he also didn't come across well the way he delivered him side of the story, trying to shout down Richie and he cleared didn't have anything to come back with when Richie asked was every other option explored first.

The situation the players / manager / club / fans are in now is a disaster, and someone is gonna have to bite their tongue to resolve it. And all this is down to the way it was handled. McGuinness said the club wouldn't talk to him ... i'd love to know how he was asking?

Honest man, he doesn't seem to be now ..... and 'leader of a union' doesn't mean he is a good one, or at least he could have done alot better on this occasion.

[pineapple stu]

I'd be fairly sure that was sarcasm...

[Dodge]

The situation the players / manager / club / fans are in now is a disaster

The situation is finished. Sure there'll be lingering feelings form some, but vast majority agree its time to move on

[Macy]

The most striking thing was that the PFAI were unable to deny that the strike would have been illegal. An extraordinary situation for a representative body to place itself in.
I raised this earlier in the thread about the legality. In the union they are affiliated to, there's no way the union would sanction action in such circumstances - you'd have to be able to prove that you'd followed any agreed procedures, gone through the appropriate dispute resolution mechanisms, properly balloted for action (properly audited ballot), and then given the appropriate notice. In a proper Trade Union (despite some of the comments here) strike is that very last option, not the first. And then you have the tweets...

[A face]

I'd be fairly sure that was sarcasm...

I know but i'm just reiterating really


The situation is finished. Sure there'll be lingering feelings form some, but vast majority agree its time to move on

Like any strike, when the trade union leaders and ambulance chasing politicians looking for the newspaper head lines are gone its the people in the work place who have to suck it up. I think most people then realise its best to just get on with it, its not like the TU Leaders or politicians are actually gonna do anything for ya.


I raised this earlier in the thread about the legality. In the union there are affiliated to, there's no way the union would sanction action in such circumstances - you'd have to be able to prove that you'd followed any agreed procedures, gone through the appropriate dispute resolution mechanisms, properly balloted for action (properly audited ballot), and then given the appropriate notice. In a proper Trade Union (despite some of the comments here) strike is that very last option, not the first. And then you have the tweets...

In short the players hadn't a leg to stand on.

[Spudulika]

Seeing as you were talking about the exchanges between McGuinness and Sadlier, would you care to stop waffling and answer Ezekial?

Calm down Richie, you can explain yourself :-)

[Macy]

In short the players hadn't a leg to stand on.
The union is the one with the issue if it sanctions what is in effect an illegal strike. The players would have the issue if they went on strike without union sanction, but iirc that'd be disciplinary action as an employee rather than the threat of being sued.

[Ezeikial]

Calm down Richie, you can explain yourself :-)

Is this the best you can do to back up your comments on Sadlier?

Based on this, I think it is fair to conclude that you were spouting drivel (shades of weecountyman again)

[passinginterest]

Is this the best you can do to back up your comments on Sadlier?

Based on this, I think it is fair to conclude that you were spouting drivel (shades of weecountyman again)

Spudu-lie-a?

[Dodge]

Calm down Richie, you can explain yourself :-)


Is this the best you can do to back up your comments on Sadlier?

Based on this, I think it is fair to conclude that you were spouting drivel (shades of weecountyman again)


Next he'll be calling it 'banter'...

[Spudulika]

Is this the best you can do to back up your comments on Sadlier?

Based on this, I think it is fair to conclude that you were spouting drivel (shades of weecountyman again)

While not wishing to lower myself to silliness, I'll let your false insinuation pass, as childish wumming is just that.

Read Richies articles in the Sindo and there are regular tales that seem to pass around every after dinner speech or gossip which seem to have taken place in or around Milwall. It's his concern and it's at least an Irish person telling them. Richie made claims even on the radio about what was going on inside the Pats camp which ran outside the lines taken by the club and PFAI, now either he was being straight or sensational, I don't think he was being fully truthful and while he wouldn't name names (even Dodge has names he won't name) and rightly so because there would be a backlash against the ones who were hardline, he could have left it out altogether instead of saying it. Then again, he's with the Sindo so it sells. Hope that explains it and no more with the false insinuations. Thanks.

Passing interest, just that, nothing more.

[Ezeikial]

Spudulika

This was your original claim about Sadlier:


I don't know how much I'd believe of Richie, he made some decent poitns but it was clear El Jefe from the PFAI didn't like some of the less than truthful things Richie had been spinning.

Instead of answering the query clarifying what you alleged was less than truthfull, you posted gibberish:

http://foot.ie/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Spudulika http://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=1517897#post1517897)
Calm down Richie, you can explain yourself :-)



Read Richies articles in the Sindo and there are regular tales that seem to pass around every after dinner speech or gossip which seem to have taken place in or around Milwall. It's his concern and it's at least an Irish person telling them.


Still no clearer so far!


Richie made claims even on the radio about what was going on inside the Pats camp which ran outside the lines taken by the club and PFAI,

What claims did Sadlier make on the radio that were less then truthful


now either he was being straight or sensational, I don't think he was being fully truthful and while he wouldn't name names (even Dodge has names he won't name) and rightly so because there would be a backlash against the ones who were hardline, he could have left it out altogether instead of saying it.

In what way was he not being "fully truthful"?

The point you make about not making the claim (even if he knew it to be true) is bizarre


Hope that explains it and no more with the false insinuations. Thanks.


it does not explain it at all.

Lets keep it really simple - in what way was Sadlier not being truthful around this affair?

[Spudulika]

Well at least remove your insinuation, gibberish so thanks.

I'll address one before we start to move, while I understand he was reluctant to name names (if he had them), he shouldn't have brought this element into the situation (in the same way as he does in his articles) because he was stirring the pot. You may see this as bizarre, okay. I don't know what you mean about the articles - if you read them you'll see a common thread in how he addressed this matter, again, I restate that this is stirring, and not fully truthful (truth=disclosure, a pov). To repeat the exact lines he used on the radio I'll have to listen to it so as to sate you, I won't begin to quote him without 100% accuracy.

[Dodge]

Richie made claims even on the radio about what was going on inside the Pats camp which ran outside the lines taken by the club and PFAI, now either he was being straight or sensational, I don't think he was being fully truthful and while he wouldn't name names (even Dodge has names he won't name) and rightly so because there would be a backlash against the ones who were hardline, he could have left it out altogether instead of saying it.
Sadlier spoke the truth.


Then again, he's with the Sindo so it sells
Nobody buys the Sindo for Pats gossip.

[TonyD]

Well at least remove your insinuation, gibberish so thanks.

I'll address one before we start to move, while I understand he was reluctant to name names (if he had them), he shouldn't have brought this element into the situation (in the same way as he does in his articles) because he was stirring the pot. You may see this as bizarre, okay. I don't know what you mean about the articles - if you read them you'll see a common thread in how he addressed this matter, again, I restate that this is stirring, and not fully truthful (truth=disclosure, a pov). To repeat the exact lines he used on the radio I'll have to listen to it so as to sate you, I won't begin to quote him without 100% accuracy.

How can you possibly claim he wasn't telling the truth about players being willing to break the "strike" (if that is what you're claiming) Unless you have definite inside info to the contrary, which I'm guessing you don't. I think Richie Sadlier is in a slightly better position than you to know what went on behind the scenes. Anyhow, I would go along with the consensus that he came across much better than McGuinness on the show. All in all a bed week for Pats, I just hope it can be put behind everyone and the players can continue with the season they've had, which has been super up to now it must be acknowledged. I think they were in the wrong, but I won't be looking to boo them in the future, totally counter-productive,and anyhow I wouldn't be too confident that any squad of players in the league is not capable of behaving like this in the "right" circumstances. Players are essentially selfish and think first and foremost of their wage packets, like players everywhere. I also read a comment from someone during all this that players are the only ones making money out of the league here, and that's certainly true. Not a fortune I'll grant you, compared to other leagues. But then if their talent was such that they could earn more elsewhere then they would be doing so. That's not to have a go at players, it's just no harm remembering when McGuiness is going on like they're being sent down the mines for tuppence an hour.