SPA Players Unhappy

[Hibs4Ever]

And yes Pats players were offered the 7500 for round 1 but were then told they were getting 0 for round 2 and club then decided not to pay on loss of earnings. .



Completely wrong. Nice guess though

[ciaróg eile]

Cork hurlers called, they want their patheticness back

[Jicked]

http://inpho.ie/cache/inpho/72/c5/8b/965c29f27b743ee6c052d53bff1f5fe77d8d3be2bc/INPHO_00531212.jpg

Thats how fired up the Pats team were before kick-off. Never lost focus, was it?

[Martinho II]

I am surprised noone has mentioned pete mahon in this. studying the press conference he looks a broken man and I feel he has being caught in the crossfire.. I would expect him to resign over the hassle that this fracas caused to st pats preparations.. Its blatantly obvious that in the Ukraine Pats were not fully focused either..
All parties involved should hang their hands in shame except for Pete Mahon..

[corkharps]

Every player should be named and shamed!

[robbieos88]

Really am shocked with what's gone on. PFAI have ill-advised and led the players to what happened. Should have never come to this.

[Spudulika]

Really am shocked with what's gone on. PFAI have ill-advised and led the players to what happened. Should have never come to this.

It's the PFAI - did you expect anything else?

And it could get worse!
(heard this on the radio and just found the link)
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/saints-flirt-with-extinction-as-owner-fumes-over-bonus-row-2840518.html

[GCdfc]

The Indo today says that PFAI/Players wanted €15,000 for just turning up last night. Bloody disgraceful by the PFAI and players! I wonder how far if I demanded more money to turn up for a normal day at the office.

You sign a contract to play football. It is a job. You adhere to the terms of your contract like everyone else in the workforce. Annual leave is there for practically all jobs. If the players had to go abroad to earn a bit more money on the side by playing football then they should have used their annual leave. No one forced them to take up two jobs!

I hope that no club hires the troublemaker players next season.

[WoodquayBoy]

Absolute maggots the lot of them. The League only gets a mention on that tabloid radio programme, The Last Word on Today FM, when things are going tits-up, and so it was again last night with Anton Savage talking to Stuart Gilhooly and Miguel Delaney. They'd never cover a position story, or even do a preview of league games - every Fridat, The Last Word on sport goes on about rugby, Gaaaaaahhhhh and the Eng;ish League, but there is never a preview of Airtricity League games. But as soon as there is a bit of scandal, it's all over it like flies to sh!t.

[marinobohs]

It's the PFAI - did you expect anything else?

And it could get worse!
(heard this on the radio and just found the link)
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/saints-flirt-with-extinction-as-owner-fumes-over-bonus-row-2840518.html

A couple of points jump out on reading that article

(1) the "row" was solely based on apperance money not out of pocket expences (which the Indo say's SPA had no problem with)
(2) Like him or not Kelleher has been one of the few people willing to put his own money into LOI. What message does he (or anyone else thinking of same) get in response ?

LOI supporters are among the most resilient creatures on the planet, constantly bouncing back despite all sanity warning us to run a mile. The LOI survives, not on transient players but on the (apparently) bottomless goodwill and commitment of an ever dwindling bunch of people, many here reading this.

I truely hope that I am not the only one asking how many more times can we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot before the case goes terminal.


PS credit to Pete Mahon for his exemplary handling of an appaling situation for any manager to have to face

[Spudulika]

MB, it will go on and on and there will always be some gilly (not saying this is GK, he made a massive effort to build the club) who'll ride in for whatever reason to back a club, and more often than not that gilly is a collection of supporters.

Let nobody accuse the media of bias, and "gah heads" having it in for football, when the LOI and FAI provide a never ending stream of stupidity to douse themselves in petrol - self-immolation at some point or other is inevitable.

Pete Mahon showed his class in not condemning any side and getting the job done. I just hope, for Pats sake, he doesn't walk.

[Ezeikial]

The detail reported by Daniel McDonnell in the Indo article puts the actions of the St Pats players and the PFAI in context as being the extortion that most insightfull observers had already suspected.

How the players could even imagine that they had an entitlement to €20,000 for "appearing" against Karpaty is beyond belief.

Ultimately their blackmail has got them an extra €10,000 over what was originally offered. At under €500 each before tax, this is the price they have placed on their tattered reputations.

Even Neale Fenn put a slightly higher figure on his tarnished reputation last year.

These players have brought shame on themselves, and by association on a proud and historic club and it's passionate supporters.

It is a dark day.

[Macy]

Let nobody accuse the media of bias, and "gah heads" having it in for football, when the LOI and FAI provide a never ending stream of stupidity to douse themselves in petrol - self-immolation at some point or other is inevitable.
Of course the media lap this up - that isn't the problem. I've no problem them covering the negatives, if they ever covered the league in general. If all had been swimmingly in the pats camp, would the match have got anything but the briefest sports bulletin mention? Even when they did cover this negative, they got it completely wrong, with the angle being the club at fault rather than the players. FFS Off The Ball even covered it in their "Football Show" to allow Ken Early to display his complete ignorance of the situation.

So yes, the league regularly shoots itself in the foot, but that in no way gives the media a pass.

[DaveyCakes]

I guess that a big question now is how this will affect them for the rest of the season...

[marinobohs]

I guess that a big question now is how this will affect them for the rest of the season...

Doubt it will affect the players at all - they got their money and dont really see beyond that. PFAI (and hired "legal expert") will no doubt see it as a victory,until of course they require assistance/cooperation from some club.

SPA fans will be mixed until the next big win when all is well again. Hope Pete Mahon can move on as he does not deserve to be a loser in this one.
And the LOI will trundle on to the next disaster........... :eek:

[noddy102]

Completely wrong. Nice guess though

Ok Einstein!

[ciaróg eile]

Luckily it never came to this situation but there's something I don't really understand if both of these statements are true:

A) If Pat's refused to play, Karpaty would have had to show up at the stadium to be awarded the 'win'
B) If Pat's refused to play they would have had to pay Karpaty's travel costs.

Surely if showing up is essential to be awarded the win then Karpaty should still have had to pay for the cost of them showing up???

[pineapple stu]

Suppose it's just an extra punishment. No harm really.

[Spudulika]

Of course the media lap this up - that isn't the problem. I've no problem them covering the negatives, if they ever covered the league in general. If all had been swimmingly in the pats camp, would the match have got anything but the briefest sports bulletin mention? Even when they did cover this negative, they got it completely wrong, with the angle being the club at fault rather than the players. FFS Off The Ball even covered it in their "Football Show" to allow Ken Early to display his complete ignorance of the situation.

So yes, the league regularly shoots itself in the foot, but that in no way gives the media a pass.

Face it, the media will cover what sells - doping, violence, greed and stupidity. Corruption, match fixing, whatever gets listeners/viewers/readers. LOI is a minority sport in the country, so something significant has to happen to make the headlines - teams doing well in Europe, big teams in for friendlies, or clubs and the FAI/PFAI committing suicide. The media doesn't need a pass, it's just doing its job.

If the club were perceived as being wrong, then shame on the club - why? Because they allowed the wrong type of news out and should have been more proactive - instead the PFAI and their clowns led everyone on a merry dance.

[WoodquayBoy]

If the club were perceived as being wrong, then shame on the club - why? Because they allowed the wrong type of news out and should have been more proactive - instead the PFAI and their clowns led everyone on a merry dance.

Great post and bang on the money. Not to try and drag Galway United into everything, but the GUFC Management Committee have really let the ball drop by not challenging statements made about how they are running the club by convicted fraudster and former CEO, Nick Leeson. It is all a matter of perception, and if non-LOI people are only hearing one side of the story, and consistently hearing it, then that's what they'll believe.

[Spudulika]

Great post and bang on the money. Not to try and drag Galway United into everything, but the GUFC Management Committee have really let the ball drop by not challenging statements made about how they are running the club by convicted fraudster and former CEO, Nick Leeson. It is all a matter of perception, and if non-LOI people are only hearing one side of the story, and consistently hearing it, then that's what they'll believe.

WB - this is the thing that football in Ireland loses out on at all levels. JD and the boys banning interviews with Des Cahill the week before Pats get stitched up by the PFAI and their employees. In the Galway case Nick used his celeb status to get his "message" out and that has left your club in trouble. I remember in my Masters course (a topic delivered by an old school commie) being told that the first thing a club/federation should invest in is a quality PR/Media person, because unless you're being serious, you'll lose every time. LOI clubs are still largely miles away from that!

[geezer]

maher the former fingal player is on the committee of players that reports to the the pfai and he went awol over €50. Accused the club of not paying insurance wrongly, tried to cause a strike by telling young lads they were taking risks with their careers because the werent covered,again wrongly he failed miserably with his stirring , and fecked off a few weeks later .

The PFAI twitter ultras are lunatics. But i suppose the industry is collapsing and there is not much left now in professional or amateur soccer in ireland to be sucked out anymore.

[Dodge]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/player-power-sails-uncomfortably-close-to-catastrophe-2841863.html?


Sadlier's view

[gufct]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/player-power-sails-uncomfortably-close-to-catastrophe-2841863.html?


Sadlier's view

He is bang on the money for once. The thing I cant understand is that the PFAI and Plyers dont seem to comprehend the damage they have done to the League. The reality of the current economic climate doesnt seem to have registered with them yet but it will when next seasons wages at all clubs bar 2/3 are cut even further. Running a club now is like being on a tightrope without a safety net after drinking a bottle of Whiskey.

[BonnieShels]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/player-power-sails-uncomfortably-close-to-catastrophe-2841863.html?


Sadlier's view

Bang on the money there.

[Ezeikial]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/player-power-sails-uncomfortably-close-to-catastrophe-2841863.html?


Sadlier's view

I'd be interested in your view Dodge

[Charlie Darwin]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/player-power-sails-uncomfortably-close-to-catastrophe-2841863.html?


Sadlier's view
Too right.

[Stevo Da Gull]

A lot of sense from Sadlier. Pitty he wasn't still involved, seeing as he said he wouldn't have entertained the demands.

[Charlie Darwin]

Anyone have any idea which players offered to cross the picket?

[monkey9]

Sadlier will be on MNS tomorrow night!

[Dodge]

I'd be interested in your view Dodge

Very similar to Sadlier. Only caveat is that I can't pick and choose when i support the club.

So I have to choose between getting on with supporting the club, or bitch and moan about it for the rest of the season. Luckily I've been a Pats fan for all my life so I've long grown accustomed to players' antics (and indeed the PFAI's)

For 3 hours on Thursday I felt physically sick. Then the club was saved (due to the actions of about 6/7 Pats fans). I won't forget that day, but I'm still thankful I have a club to support

[monkey9]

http://theexpatblog.blogspot.com/

[micls]

Absolutely sickening. I can only imagine how Pats fans felt about it.

If it were my club I wouldn't want a single one of the contracts renewed(bar those who offered to play). They are an absolute disgrace to the club, the game and the league.

I also hope that none of these scumbags ever end up playing for my club.

There were times during our slow demise where we would have fully supported our players going on strike, they would have been 100% justified, and yet they never did. They didn't want to risk the club despite not being paid in full for months, never mind extra money they weren't entitled to! It's unbelievable!

I hope every club in the league thinks twice before giving these 'players' contracts. Then maybe they'd start thinking about something other than themselves. I hope they enjoy there money and it's worth it, because it cost them any respect they had in the league.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

Absolutely sickening. I can only imagine how Pats fans felt about it.

If it were my club I wouldn't want a single one of the contracts renewed(bar those who offered to play). They are an absolute disgrace to the club, the game and the league.

I also hope that none of these scumbags ever end up playing for my club.

There were times during our slow demise where we would have fully supported our players going on strike, they would have been 100% justified, and yet they never did. They didn't want to risk the club despite not being paid in full for months, never mind extra money they weren't entitled to! It's unbelievable!

I hope every club in the league thinks twice before giving these 'players' contracts. Then maybe they'd start thinking about something other than themselves. I hope they enjoy there money and it's worth it, because it cost them any respect they had in the league.

I really hope all of their contracts are not renewed. The club finally have an outlet that makes them some money and they try and screw them for a piece of that while they're being paid well for a loss-making business. Shocking.

[pineapple stu]

It's rare that one side is ever completely in the right or in the wrong in an argument like this, but has anything at all come out to justify the players' actions as yet?

[SkStu]

It's rare that one side is ever completely in the right or in the wrong in an argument like this, but has anything at all come out to justify the players' actions as yet?

yes. Stuart Gilhooly would be the thing in question.

;)

[marinobohs]

It's rare that one side is ever completely in the right or in the wrong in an argument like this, but has anything at all come out to justify the players' actions as yet?

Probobly the most sensible post on this so far, Stu. No doubt the players were wrong in the threat not to play and the PFAI are ajoke ( how can Gilhooley twittering of issues that should remain confidential be acceptable in any business ?) but it should not have come down to 11th hour either.
Most acknowledge that "out of pocket" expences incurred by players should be covered (and SPA agreed), it is still unclear if this was communicated to the players. It is also legitimate for players to seek additional bonus (and for club to reject such claim(s)) and some methodology has to be there to deal with disputes before they reach crisis point.

This is in no way to justify the complete and utter folly of the players action, and the incompetent manner in which their "representative" acted (and appears to believe is acceptable). What must come out of this is ensuring that it does not happen again. The FAI (or whoever is running this circus) must investigate all aspects and ensure a proper procedure is in place to deal with future issues, the current "make it up as we go along" approach is not and must not be acceptable.

What should have been a great occasion for SPA fans was ruined by a totally avoidable farce. Unless all sides start to put the customers first - ahead of themselves and petty squabbles- then the LOI simply has no future for any of the stakeholders.

[Dodge]

It's rare that one side is ever completely in the right or in the wrong in an argument like this, but has anything at all come out to justify the players' actions as yet?

Well there’s no doubt the club didn’t handle it well. Pats admin were stretched to breaking point with the European logistics, and with some members of the board playing a less than active role in the running of the club I’ve no doubt that things moved slowly. I could understand how some players could see the lack of response from the club as a slight. And I’ve no problems with players seeking bonuses, or compensation.

As ever, not all players were as committed to the cause. We know that some players only found out about the 2nd statement through the media. We know that some players didn’t realise the gravity of the consequences if they didn’t play. And of course I’ve no problem with players supporting their colleagues right to be compensated. It all adds up to the players getting bad advice in my mind.

Its worth repeating that in the end it took some players saying they’d play for any sort of deal to be done.

[Spudulika]

3 sides wrong - SA, Players, PFAI. Would be good to blame JD and co, but this came from within with poor advice from a union hack and his buddy. I listened to the Off the Wall coverage of it with that comedically and intellectually challenged numbskull Ger Gilroy, Neil O'Riordain and Richie S. There was a sidebar of the stand in "straight man" saying how he'd been nearly beaten up by a Sligo fan (at a wedding) for not covering the LOI more - his response - well, we've Roddy Collins on Wednesdays, isn't that enough? (and they both sniggered). I actually felt angry, really angry, that a LOI club and the LOI were being belittled by a pair of half-wits who in 45minutes worth of a podcast made more errors and factual mistakes while trying to be cool and funny. So how did this come about? 3 sides in the wrong, nobody winning and everybody suffering. And meanwhile the media waits for the next disaster in the LOI for something to write about!

[born2bwild]

Those lads on Off the Ball are retards. They spend whatever time and energy they have trying to make weak jokes and smart comments while they meander along one deliberately 'zany' tangent after another.
I heard that show and it annoyed me because a lot of sports fans take their cue from those gobsh1tes. Their smug, sneering attitude to the domestic league is irritating at the best of times - on an issue as serious as this it's poison.

[brayfan08]

On the topic of off the ball, i was listening to it last week when the rovers match was on and the presenter called Thompson Ndo

[Spudulika]

I listen to their pieces with John Giles, sometimes with some of the foreign correspondants (who are more than just colonial half wits) and even last week they completely embarassed themselves over Paris St. Germain (saying they had no fans and no hope), only for the French journo to completely rip them a new one! It was almost a pleasure to hear, though they will continue so long as the meeja dictates this is all we're fit for. Joe Duffy and OTB. Good god!

[Mr A]

What did people make of the coverage of this on MNS last night? It's here from 15 minutes if you missed it: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/mns/

I thought Sadlier (holy crap, someone on MNS who knew what they were talking about!) wiped the floor with McGuinness to be honest.

The most striking thing was that the PFAI were unable to deny that the strike would have been illegal. An extraordinary situation for a representative body to place itself in. Also, he seemed to think it was a big deal that the players played without an appearance fee- like they ever deserved one! That they asked for €20k to play the game was outrageous.

Pats may not have handled this well, but I can see why they wouldn't want to entertain such crazy demands.

[WoodquayBoy]

I dunno, I thought McGuinnes won the argument, as clearly, if you have to shout and point the finger, you're winning (sarc). JesusH, he came across very poor, Sadlier absolutely made him look like a right idiot

[marinobohs]

What did people make of the coverage of this on MNS last night? It's here from 15 minutes if you missed it: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/mns/

I thought Sadlier (holy crap, someone on MNS who knew what they were talking about!) wiped the floor with McGuinness to be honest.

The most striking thing was that the PFAI were unable to deny that the strike would have been illegal. An extraordinary situation for a representative body to place itself in. Also, he seemed to think it was a big deal that the players played without an appearance fee- like they ever deserved one! That they asked for €20k to play the game was outrageous.

Pats may not have handled this well, but I can see why they wouldn't want to entertain such crazy demands.

Mc Guinness was crap and Sadlier's well thought out points mopped the floor with him. To be fair, Mc Guinness has to represent his members and their actions no matter how flawed they may be. lets hope that away from the public glare he realises that such an occurance must not happen again.

[pineapple stu]

Pats may not have handled this well
I'm not sure what else Pat's were supposed to do really.

Players - "Can we have lots of money?"
Pat's - "No; anyway, we're very busy trying at the moment to get ye all to Kazakhstan."
Players - "Right so; we'll just strike and not warn ye about it"

[marinobohs]

I'm not sure what else Pat's were supposed to do really.

Players - "Can we have lots of money?"
Pat's - "No; anyway, we're very busy trying at the moment to get ye all to Kazakhstan."
Players - "Right so; we'll just strike and not warn ye about it"

Maybe not down to SPA but should there not be an agreed procedure to deal with disputes of this nature ? Always going to be issues parties cannot agree should be some avenue to address them. If nothing else it avoids frutration that leads to people making poor decisions

[pineapple stu]

Maybe, but sure who could have seen this coming? You can't make plans for every possible eventuality. What else should we plan for?

(Cue Mr A for the punchline...)

[marinobohs]

Maybe, but sure who could have seen this coming? You can't make plans for every possible eventuality. What else should we plan for?

(Cue Mr A for the punchline...)

Actually most industries sectors that do not avail o fthe State dispute resolution machinery have in place an agreed Tribunal/arbitration system, agreed panel of arbitrator(s) and any issues unresolved locally (directly between parties) automatically referred to same. If parties agree in advance to binding arbitration then possibility of Industrial action does not arise. Given the increasing (although still small) number of occurances perhaps FAI should consider some similar model for LOI

[pineapple stu]

But what if they ignore that? It's already been suggested that the players' strike would have been illegal had it gone ahead. It's already been noted that the Pat's officials - volunteers, like at most clubs, I assume - were engaged in getting the team to Kazakhstan at short notice. The players seem to have ignored all the rules; you can't legislate for that.