View Full Version : SPA Players Unhappy
Ezeikial
04/08/2011, 1:06 PM
More money is coming through the 'tills' - who should get it? The board? The players should have first shout since they're the ones making it happen on the pitch. Just because workers don't ask for extra doesn't mean they shouldn't.
Creditors.
WoodquayBoy
04/08/2011, 1:12 PM
Someone found the codes to (temporarily) defuse the bomb
4 August 2011
STATEMENT FROM THE PLAYERS OF ST PATRICK’S ATHLETIC FOOTBALL CLUB
Following discussions between our representative Stephen McGuinness of the PFAI, Fran Gavin of the FAI, and a club official, we can confirm that we have reached an agreement this afternoon with the club in relation to our requests.
We never expected this matter to go as far as it did, and we would like to thank our club’s fans for their support during this time. We have never lost focus on tonight’s game and are very much looking forward to this evening’s encounter with FC Karpaty Lviv
END
PFAI
Room 214 Players' Union Offices
National Sports Campus
Abbotstown
Dublin 15
Ireland
Tel +353 1 899 9350
Fax +353 1 899 9351
Email info@pfai.ie
Website www.pfai.ie (http://www.pfai.ie)
harleyleeds
04/08/2011, 1:12 PM
Who is begrudging the players a bonus?
According to media reports St Pats agreed a package with them for the first round and made an offer for subsequent rounds.
After the behaviour of the players and PFAI I NOW begrudge them a single red cent and hope they end up as LoI outcasts.
This is the real point:
only because it agrees with your point but i agree that the timing is bad however if you want future performance treat your players fairly . How can these players be expected to perform in the league after this.
born2bwild
04/08/2011, 1:13 PM
I can think of a thousand ways Pats would probably put that money to good use. Instead of throwing it away on bonus payments that were never due.
WTF?
Players are some of the few people who make money out of the LOI. Boards generally work their arses off and plough their time and money into a club because they love their club. So if I had to decide- I'd go with boards every time. Yes plenty of them have made feck ups down the years but without them there'd be no LOI. And the idea that 'the board' would get the money is ridiculous anyway.. chances are it'll be reinvested straight back into the club.
Hmmm....there goes my argument, then.
DannyInvincible
04/08/2011, 1:20 PM
Someone found the codes to (temporarily) defuse the bomb
4 August 2011
STATEMENT FROM THE PLAYERS OF ST PATRICK’S ATHLETIC FOOTBALL CLUB
Following discussions between our representative Stephen McGuinness of the PFAI, Fran Gavin of the FAI, and a club official, we can confirm that we have reached an agreement this afternoon with the club in relation to our requests.
We never expected this matter to go as far as it did, and we would like to thank our club’s fans for their support during this time. We have never lost focus on tonight’s game and are very much looking forward to this evening’s encounter with FC Karpaty Lviv
END
PFAI
Room 214 Players' Union Offices
National Sports Campus
Abbotstown
Dublin 15
Ireland
Tel +353 1 899 9350
Fax +353 1 899 9351
Email info@pfai.ie
Website www.pfai.ie (http://www.pfai.ie)
Have St. Pat's fans been standing by the players? As for claiming not to have lost focus, I'm not sure how that stands against a declaration to boycott the entire thing about three hours ago...
Ezeikial
04/08/2011, 1:21 PM
4 August 2011
STATEMENT FROM THE PLAYERS OF ST PATRICK’S ATHLETIC FOOTBALL CLUB
Following discussions between our representative Stephen McGuinness of the PFAI, Fran Gavin of the FAI, and a club official, we can confirm that we have reached an agreement this afternoon with the club in relation to our requests.
We never expected this matter to go as far as it did, and we would like to thank our club’s fans for their support during this time. We have never lost focus on tonight’s game and are very much looking forward to this evening’s encounter with FC Karpaty Lviv
END
PFAI
Room 214 Players' Union Offices
National Sports Campus
Abbotstown
Dublin 15
Ireland
Tel +353 1 899 9350
Fax +353 1 899 9351
Email info@pfai.ie
Website www.pfai.ie (http://www.pfai.ie)
What bull$****.
Fans support? Is there any evidence of this?
Never lost focus on tonights game? WTF - you guys said you would not play in it!
We have never lost focus on tonight’s game and are very much looking forward to this evening’s encounter with FC Karpaty Lviv
Except for not planning on playing..
marinobohs
04/08/2011, 1:25 PM
doesnt seem to hard for you zek but I stand by my assertions that players in european games should be rewarded extra (bonus) for them. You want to do well in europe but expect players to play these games as if they were a local one instead of offering incentitives and bonuses . very small minded indeed. if you make extra money for your boss you get a bonus thats worldwide ,except for ireland where if you screw the people you get the bonus . ie your pols and bankers but these players who get mickey mouse money you begrudge a bonus even though they are earning you extra. why should they bother trying to qualify next year if it only means extra games for no extra pay.
The "incentive" is they get paid and keep their job :rolleyes:. Its quite a popular incentive scheme outside football as well I believe. Players (along with anyone else) are entitled to negotiate a bonus for success and/orincreased efficency/productivity but the manner in which they went about it in this case is completely unacceptable.
passerrby
04/08/2011, 1:25 PM
More money is coming through the 'tills' - who should get it? The board? The players should have first shout since they're the ones making it happen on the pitch. Just because workers don't ask for extra doesn't mean they shouldn't.
clubs like st pats need the injection of european football to pay debts. to assume the tills are ringing is silly every penny will be earmarked for creditors,players wages,expenses and all the other things that a club needs to survive.
players imo did themselves and pats, fans (and the league) a disservice.
marinobohs
04/08/2011, 1:30 PM
Have St. Pat's fans been standing by the players? As for claiming not to have lost focus, I'm not sure how that stands against a declaration to boycott the entire thing about three hours ago...
..... could be one of the very occassions that the board at a club will hope the team do NOT make it through - imagine they made the group stage :o (all those extra games)
Could be a very short term "victory" for the PFAI if this is how they go about their business
The PFAI come out of this incredibly poorly, from an IR point of view, imo. How can any club/ employer go into negotiations in good faith when all these tweets are flying around?
harleyleeds
04/08/2011, 1:39 PM
The "incentive" is they get paid and keep their job :rolleyes:. Its quite a popular incentive scheme outside football as well I believe. Players (along with anyone else) are entitled to negotiate a bonus for success and/orincreased efficency/productivity but the manner in which they went about it in this case is completely unacceptable.
again agree about the manner and the bonus should have been negotiated before any games but would you have used the first part including the eye rolling 3-4 years ago . no . btw what else could they have done, played the game lost and then asked for money?
DannyInvincible
04/08/2011, 1:41 PM
only because it agrees with your point but i agree that the timing is bad however if you want future performance treat your players fairly . How can these players be expected to perform in the league after this.
In the space of six minutes, you somehow managed to miss the point again.
I really don't know what people who don't support LOI teams do with their time, energy and money
I really don't know what people who don't support LOI teams do with their time, energy and money
Simple.
They waste them!
harleyleeds
04/08/2011, 1:46 PM
please enlighten me danny i see several points just not yours
Bunny Kelly
04/08/2011, 1:50 PM
Are these 'bonuses' not to compensate the players for loss of earnings? These are part time players, & playing away in Europe isn't a case of skipping out of work early an hour or two early, they need to days off for these trips so are at a loss if they are not taken care of by their club
Eminence Grise
04/08/2011, 1:51 PM
Unseen first draft of the players statement...
STATEMENT FROM THE PLAYERS OF ST PATRICK’S ATHLETIC FOOTBALL CLUB
Following discussions between our reprehensible Everyone’s Against-us of the PFO, Fran Gavin of the FAI, and a club official, we can confirm that we have forced an agreement this afternoon with the club in relation to our demands.
We never expected Moany Mahon to get us as far as he did, and we would like to thank our club’s fans for not stoning us during this dispute. We have never lost focus on tonight’s game and are very much looking forward to lining our pockets after this evening’s encounter with FC Karpaty Lviv whatever the result.
END (OF OUR CREDIBILITY & TRUSTWORTHINESS)
So, so sorry for Pat's fans. You deserve to be represented by better than this self-serving shower of snakes in the grass.
El-Pietro
04/08/2011, 1:51 PM
they were happy with the amount received in the first round, but felt they deserved more for the following rounds? surely if it was enough to cover loss of earnings in the first round it should be plenty from then on. they don't need more than double for each round after that do they
DannyInvincible
04/08/2011, 1:56 PM
BBC story about it here confirming the game will go ahead, but nothing much new in it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14400995.stm
please enlighten me danny i see several points just not yours
The players are under contractual obligation. To my understanding, playing in Europe is part and parcel of their regular job; it's not over-time or bonus hours or whatever. Even so, St. Pat's, in acknowledgement of the players loss of earnings and holiday time, appeared willing to offer voluntary bonuses. The players were previously willing to accept these. The players were bang out of order in the manner they then went about holding the club to ransom on later bonus payments for this round.
ciaróg eile
04/08/2011, 2:05 PM
Hopefully this has all been an elaborate ploy to disrupt Lviv's mental preparation for the game...
harleyleeds
04/08/2011, 2:09 PM
http://foot.ie/threads/154748-SPA-Players-Unhappy/images/misc/quote_icon.png
please enlighten me danny i see several points just not yours
The players are under contractual obligation. To my understanding, playing in Europe is part and parcel of their regular job; it's not over-time or bonus hours or whatever. Even so, St. Pat's, in acknowledgement of the players loss of earnings and holiday time, appeared willing to offer voluntary bonuses. The players were previously willing to accept these. The players were bang out of order in the manner they then went about holding the club to ransom on later bonus payments for this round.
Originally Posted by marinobohshttp://foot.ie/threads/154748-SPA-Players-Unhappy/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://foot.ie/threads/154748-SPA-Players-Unhappy/showthread.php?p=1515611#post1515611)
The "incentive" is they get paid and keep their job http://foot.ie/threads/154748-SPA-Players-Unhappy/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif. Its quite a popular incentive scheme outside football as well I believe. Players (along with anyone else) are entitled to negotiate a bonus for success and/orincreased efficency/productivity but the manner in which they went about it in this case is completely unacceptable.
again agree about the manner and the bonus should have been negotiated before any games but would you have used the first part including the eye rolling 3-4 years ago . no . btw what else could they have done, played the game lost and then asked for money?
europe is not part of their reg job they have to leave their country to do this. you want them to compete with other leagues but treat them like part timers . yes the contracts may say one thing but in the interest of promoting a winning attitude the club should pass on some of the winnings/earnings.
DannyInvincible
04/08/2011, 2:14 PM
europe is not part of their reg job they have to leave their country to do this. you want them to compete with other leagues but treat them like part timers . yes the contracts may say one thing but in the interest of promoting a winning attitude the club should pass on some of the winnings/earnings.
And wasn't it doing that?
WoodquayBoy
04/08/2011, 2:15 PM
Jesus wept man - if you are a rep, for example, part of your regular job could be visiting clients in Belfast or Derry. If you work high-up in one of the multi-nationals here in Galway, you will invariably end up travelling to HQ in the States for meetings. In both examples, from extreme ends of the spectrum, people are required to leave the Republic of Ireland. As part of their regular job.
Fester
04/08/2011, 2:16 PM
they were happy with the amount received in the first round, but felt they deserved more for the following rounds? surely if it was enough to cover loss of earnings in the first round it should be plenty from then on. they don't need more than double for each round after that do they
The players had to take extra days off to travel to outer Kazakhstan, so it would not have compensated.
Ezeikial
04/08/2011, 2:26 PM
http://foot.ie/threads/154748-SPA-Players-Unhappy/images/misc/quote_icon.png
europe is not part of their reg job they have to leave their country to do this.
Are you on a wind-up?
You may not realise it but when a club qualifies for European competition they actually have to leave the country to play. Of course it's part of their contracted commitment.
They also have to leave "their country" to play in Derry - perhaps you advocate they get additional compensation for this?
you want them to compete with other leagues but treat them like part timers .
The delicious irony is that the red herring of "out of pocket expenses" is precisely because they are part time.
yes the contracts may say one thing but in the interest of promoting a winning attitude the club should pass on some of the winnings/earnings.
You already acknowledged that St Pats were doing this (€7,500 for first leg and apparently same offered for subsequent rounds)
marinobohs
04/08/2011, 2:29 PM
again agree about the manner and the bonus should have been negotiated before any games but would you have used the first part including the eye rolling 3-4 years ago . no . btw what else could they have done, played the game lost and then asked for money?
Doubt they would have settled for such "miserly" amounts 3-4 years ago so that point is irellevent (and close to bizarre - people did not automatically indulge in industrial action 3-4 years ago as a first instance any more than they do now).
Believe it or not this is not the first dispute between an employer and employee(s) and there is legislation around the whole issue. There is also case law concerning illegal (often called unofficial) action.
I look forward to your post calling on Bohs players to be deducted pay following our "efforts" in Europe in recent years and its impact on the club
WoodquayBoy
04/08/2011, 2:33 PM
.
I look forward to your post calling on Bohs players to be deducted pay following our "efforts" in Europe in recent years and its impact on the club
In fairness, if he did, it would be his first sensible post on this thread ;-)
it really is amazing how many people have simply no idea how LOI football works.
Not everyone of course. Some excelelnt posters here.
Some absolute thicks too
harleyleeds
04/08/2011, 2:40 PM
Are you on a wind-up?
You may not realise it but when a club qualifies for European competition they actually have to leave the country to play. Of course it's part of their contracted commitment.
They also have to leave "their country" to play in Derry - perhaps you advocate they get additional compensation for this?
The delicious irony is that the red herring of "out of pocket expenses" is precisely because they are part time.
You already acknowledged that St Pats were doing this (€7,500 for first leg and apparently same offered for subsequent rounds)
whatever you want zek I think they deserve better . Derry really good comparisson. point about part time is that you advocate skimping on their pay but expect them to be as good as full time foreign teams (Derry excepted) . Anyway dont care anymore as Rovers are on today so ill watch that and you concentrate on wheither or not Pats players deserve to be nailed to the cross and next time your in europe hopefully this issue will be written into the contracts
.
good luck to Pats today hope ye do win and go through.
Ezeikial
04/08/2011, 2:43 PM
Thats a relief!
Real ale Madrid
04/08/2011, 2:45 PM
good luck to Pats today hope ye do win and go through.
Well the players have managed to squeeze blood from a stone already today - maybe they can produce another miracle ?
DannyInvincible
04/08/2011, 2:48 PM
whatever you want zek I think they deserve better . Derry really good comparisson. point about part time is that you advocate skimping on their pay but expect them to be as good as full time foreign teams (Derry excepted) . Anyway dont care anymore as Rovers are on today so ill watch that and you concentrate on wheither or not Pats players deserve to be nailed to the cross and next time your in europe hopefully this issue will be written into the contracts
.
good luck to Pats today hope ye do win and go through.
What are you talking about "skimping on their pay"? The players' salaries for doing their job are already in their contracts.
marinobohs
04/08/2011, 2:50 PM
whatever you want zek I think they deserve better . Derry really good comparisson. point about part time is that you advocate skimping on their pay but expect them to be as good as full time foreign teams (Derry excepted) . Anyway dont care anymore as Rovers are on today so ill watch that and you concentrate on wheither or not Pats players deserve to be nailed to the cross and next time your in europe hopefully this issue will be written into the contracts
.
good luck to Pats today hope ye do win and go through.
The reality is this was simply an attempt by the players to screw a few extra bob out of the club, nothing more, nothing less. They realise they have an uphill struggle to get through tonight and decided threatening the game gave them the best leverage.
I suppose they will see it as a successfull strategy - at least in the short term -in that they got a deal.
noddy102
04/08/2011, 2:53 PM
Are you on a wind-up?
You may not realise it but when a club qualifies for European competition they actually have to leave the country to play. Of course it's part of their contracted commitment.
You're missing a key point - Players signed contracts and booked holidays etc before Fingal folded and before St. Pats were in Europe. Therefore wages agreed on lower finances and holidays now unavailable.
And yes Pats players were offered the 7500 for round 1 but were then told they were getting 0 for round 2 and club then decided not to pay on loss of earnings. That menat a lot of players were out of pocket by quite a lot (3 trips taken mid week).
Again contracts were agreed before club was in Europe so players didnt sign contracts knowing this could happen.
Real ale Madrid
04/08/2011, 2:56 PM
And yes Pats players were offered the 7500 for round 1 but were then told they were getting 0 for round 2 and club then decided not to pay on loss of earnings. That menat a lot of players were out of pocket by quite a lot (3 trips taken mid week).
Source ? I find it hard to believe they would get 7,500 for 1st round but then nothing for subsequent rounds.
noddy102
04/08/2011, 2:58 PM
The reality is this was simply an attempt by the players to screw a few extra bob out of the club.
Loss of earnings from other full time jobs to partake in matches they didnt know were happening when they agreed there contracts at the beginning of the season.
They realise they have an uphill struggle to get through tonight and decided threatening the game gave them the best leverage.
This has been going on for well over a month. Club ignorantly trying to brush it under the carpet, trying to break agreements.
Didn't Pats offer the players the same for each round?
It just seems that the players feel that because the club was making a few bucks that they were automatically entitled to a cut.
noddy102
04/08/2011, 3:00 PM
Source ? I find it hard to believe they would get 7,500 for 1st round but then nothing for subsequent rounds.
I cant pass you on a link because there isint one but Im sure you'll see plenty of sources in the coming weeks.
noddy102
04/08/2011, 3:01 PM
Didn't Pats offer the players the same for each round?
Not true
marinobohs
04/08/2011, 3:02 PM
Loss of earnings from other full time jobs to partake in matches they didnt know were happening when they agreed there contracts at the beginning of the season.
NOBODY has argued they are not entitled to out of pocket expences (in fact most, including myself said they were)
This has been going on for well over a month. Club ignorantly trying to brush it under the carpet, trying to break agreements.
No agreements were broken as none existed. Try reading previous posts on the thread.
Charlie Darwin
04/08/2011, 3:12 PM
And yes Pats players were offered the 7500 for round 1 but were then told they were getting 0 for round 2 and club then decided not to pay on loss of earnings. That menat a lot of players were out of pocket by quite a lot (3 trips taken mid week).
If they were offered nothing they shouldn't have gone to fulfill the away fixtures.
Pats are the same as every other league club barely keeping their heads above water. Feel really sorry for Pats supporters who are among the best in the league will take a lot to repair damage done on all fronts.
Ezeikial
04/08/2011, 3:35 PM
And yes Pats players were offered the 7500 for round 1 but were then told they were getting 0 for round 2 and club then decided not to pay on loss of earnings. That menat a lot of players were out of pocket by quite a lot (3 trips taken mid week).
What is you source for this?
That is very difficult to believe, and quite frankly I don't.
You're missing a key point - Players signed contracts and booked holidays etc before Fingal folded and before St. Pats were in Europe. Therefore wages agreed on lower finances and holidays now unavailable.
Again contracts were agreed before club was in Europe so players didnt sign contracts knowing this could happen.
I don't think that is a key point at all.
IMO the key issues are
a) That St Pats offered and the players accepted a finacial deal for round 1, and presumably did likewise for further rounds
b) The stance of the players in holding the club to ransom is completely unacceptable and is deserving of utter contempt
Real ale Madrid
04/08/2011, 3:37 PM
I cant pass you on a link because there isint one but Im sure you'll see plenty of sources in the coming weeks.
THere are rules regarding the posting of unsubstantiated claims here - regardless of that - I'm sure Pats offered all they could afford to the players.
passerrby
04/08/2011, 3:48 PM
I dont believe mr mc guinness or gilhooly covered themselves in glory either
its amazing the things that happen when im asleep. 8 pages of LOI glory.
Can we change the title now to "spa players happy". ;)
Charlie Darwin
04/08/2011, 4:06 PM
I dont believe mr mc guinness or gilhooly covered themselves in glory either
This is probably a general statement you could make at any time.
paul_oshea
04/08/2011, 4:16 PM
its amazing the things that happen when im asleep. 8 pages of LOI glory.
Can we change the title now to "spa players happy". ;)
Do you find the same problem at work :P
maybe "(un)happy"
Looks like this isn't over (http://weplayonfridays.com/pats-players-to-strike-over-“cheque-cashing-charge”/) and could escalate again before the weekend.
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