Rugby 2011

[Real ale Madrid]

Bet 20 they would beat aus beforehand. :)


After-eventer's always win.


A fantastic perfomance, makes you wonder what they've been at all year. Still questions over our creativity, but knock-out rugby tends to be more forward orientated anyway so who knows what can happen now. I just wonder about the NZ v France game next Saturday - will they be playing to lose now that Aus / SA are on the Pool A winners side???

[paul_oshea]

Nope i did, as anyone who knows me offline can vouch for :)

I just don't really post on any forum other than Ireland now.

I think they are capable of beating anyone, but its a mental thing with them. They seem to need to have extra motivational factors, and that extra lift drives them on, gives the forwards more strenght, and gives them that little bit more when the big hits are needed.

Its a pity there isn't a level of consistency with that, but perhaps thats a good thing.

[geysir]

I don't think so Paul, consistency is a good thing and a better place to be.

A one off performance from Ireland who performed out of their skins to beat a somewhat weakened Australia, who buckled under pressure. Maybe it's a road to Damascus moment for Ireland or more likely they'll get edged out in the quarter finals or hammered emphatically by a better team in the semis.

[shakermaker1982]

The only teams Ireland should fear are France (potential semi finalists), New Zealand and the Boks. The latter 2 will hopefully be on the other side of the draw so I wouldn't mind seeing one of them in the final!

Ireland at full strength will have too much for Wales and England. The squad is littered with HC winners and when they click they are a real force. However if they went into the Welsh/England clash without their first choice back row forwards I'd worry. The same if Ross didn't make it.

[Charlie Darwin]

I just wonder about the NZ v France game next Saturday - will they be playing to lose now that Aus / SA are on the Pool A winners side???
I don't think it's really changed anything. Winning the group is still the optimum outcome for both of those sides. It just means they'll have to play the Boks or Australia in the semis rather than the final. It's arguably better, considering they'll knock the crap out of one another in the quarters and likely sustain a couple of injuries apiece.

[paul_oshea]

I don't think so Paul, consistency is a good thing and a better place to be.

A one off performance from Ireland who performed out of their skins to beat a somewhat weakened Australia, who buckled under pressure. Maybe it's a road to Damascus moment for Ireland or more likely they'll get edged out in the quarter finals or hammered emphatically by a better team in the semis.

Ya but rugby is one of those sports where complacency can have a huge impact on the outcome. A bit like the French, remember when they went out and beat the odds on kiwis, albeit with the help of the ref.

Don't come back and remind me what happened next though :)

[Macy]

Not sure you can perform to that level game in, game out with the playing pool we have. They're better off trying to peak for specific games imo.

[geysir]

That would be achieving consistency, being able to peak for specific games.
I think the rugby team did manage it for the 6 nations in recent years, but it's hard to measure that as France are not shy to use the 6 nations to blood a new look team. Strange though that NZ have bottled it at the WC level, time after time.

[Stuttgart88]

Permutations in England, Scotland & ARG group:


•If Scotland lose to England without a losing bonus point they are out of the World Cup
•If Scotland lose to England with a losing bonus point and Argentina lose against Georgia, Scotland go through
•If Scotland draw with England, they need Argentina to lose against Georgia
•If Scotland and Argentina both win without a bonus point, it will come down to points difference between the three teams, though England are way out in front That's ridiculous in my opinion. How you do against the minnows should have no bearing in this scenario.
•If Scotland and Argentina win with bonus points, and England do not earn a losing bonus point, England are out

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15041494.stm

[BonnieShels]

I like that unlikely last permutation. Just finished watching our game.

Two words.

Leamy. Donkey.

[Spudulika]

Leamy donkeyed through the Russians alright. Glad to see the locals do well, they deserved a few points but every time Ireland stepped up the pressure they were able to score. Leaving provincial bias aside, I'd bench Sexton for the next match, Boss is good but a reserve, while it was good to see Leo Cullen prove he's ready to jump in for DOC or POC. Jamie Heaslip seemed a bit lost at times, McFadden was okay but is a bit dodgy at defending, Robbie Kearney to could be faulted for that. It was just good to see Ireland put a resiliant team to the sword and now I worry for the Russkis against Australia. It could be up around 100 points.

Was it just me or did it look like France threw the game yesterday? If they did it'll backfire on them. I keep thinking of Croatia in 1996.

[BonnieShels]

Looked like that to me re France when I started watching it from around the first 19 min.

Watching my recording of it last night I think though that they were unlucky in the first 8 min when Rolland made some glaring errors and if given France could've been at least 7 and maybe 12-0 up at that stage. Not surprised they wilted at that stage to be honest.

I would start Jonny to show confidence in him. To drop him would be detrimental to us in the QF.

[Spudulika]

It's on tv here now (highlights) and apart from a couple of half decent plays in the 1st half, they looked dreadful. At 29-10 (early in the 2nd) the AB's were wobbling and lost a bit of shape, but France simply slowed the ball. But man they're dangerous when they start to move it out wide, though in the warm up matches with Ireland I was certain that we'd take them. Agree on Rolland, now even in the 2nd he's favouring the home side.

Not sure about Jonny, against Australia he showed he has heart etc, and his tackling is less suspect than ROG, I just think ROG will be a safer bet with the boot - especially on the fly.

[BonnieShels]

I'd still rather start Jonny for the psychological reasons alone. ROG can still come on.

[geysir]

Maybe Johnny could successfully try to psyche himself up to strike a proper penalty kick, but he's utter shíte at that crucial aspect of the game, therefore i'd say O'Gara has the position wrapped up. I appreciate that Sexton can defend better than O'Gara but how many times can you tolerate him bottling another straight forward penalty kick. What do rugby fans do, go to the toilet for 5 minutes while Johnny goes through his routine?

[BonnieShels]

You could see that he was going to miss that con for Buckley's try.

I still think he's going to go with Sexton.

[freewheel30]

Maybe McGeady could successfully try to psyche himself up to strike a proper cross, but he's utter shíte at that crucial aspect of the game, therefore i'd say Hunt has the position wrapped up. I appreciate that McGeady can defend well but how many times can you tolerate him bottling another straight forward cross. What do Ireland fans do, go to the toilet for 5 minutes while McGeady goes through his routine?

FYP

At least Sexton has made significant contributions for us in the past, like kicking all 15 points against South Africa. Strange, however, that you would happily defend a performer like McGeady to the death, even though it could be argued that this (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0908/trapattonig_mcgeady.html) represents the zenith of his international career thus far.

[bennocelt]

Maybe Johnny could successfully try to psyche himself up to strike a proper penalty kick, but he's utter shíte at that crucial aspect of the game, therefore i'd say O'Gara has the position wrapped up. I appreciate that Sexton can defend better than O'Gara but how many times can you tolerate him bottling another straight forward penalty kick. What do rugby fans do, go to the toilet for 5 minutes while Johnny goes through his routine?

Def agree. strange that this still has to be debated - I mean how many chances does the lad need to have to gain some confidence. Also Thrimble is another lightweight, fast but can he tackle?

[geysir]

You could see that he was going to miss that con for Buckley's try.

I still think he's going to go with Sexton.
Oh No! say it ain't so!

Should Ireland get through to the 1/4 finals after beating Italy, they (some rugby critics) say that Sexton would be more suited to the probable 1/4 final opponents Wales, because the nasty Welsh are cute enough to exploit O'Gara's weakness. Will Johnny have used up all the rope that Kidney has given him by then?

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Sexton will play because Kidney decided two years ago he was going to be the 10 going forward. He's blinked in the past but I don't think he will this time. Sexton's all-round game has been good so far, it's just his goal-kicking that's let him down. He gets the backline moving more than O'Gara can.

[bennocelt]

Yeah but this is rugby we are talking about - fiddle around for most of the game and then its all decided on penalty kicks - re that annoying ad they have on ITV - 75% of all scores are decided by p.kicks

[geysir]

ITV coverage does have some great tidbits of info during commentary, to enhance your appreciation of the game. Like when England's Johnny was taking a 25m drop out, 'he hits it high in the air to give his back line enough time to catch up with the dropping ball'.

[BonnieShels]

I don't think I ever have watched a game on ITV. Nor would I ever through choice. I'm clearly missing out.

[bennocelt]

I don't think I ever have watched a game on ITV. Nor would I ever through choice. I'm clearly missing out.

No choice in the UK - and they have Doyle in the studio -yikes! But wouldn't be able to watch Ryle Nugent either, IMHO he is the worst commentator of them all

[Macy]

ITV have all the games, and are free to air on satellite for the non-Ireland games (FTA in Ireland too, obviously). They've been doing the World Cups since the start as far as I recall, and they've always been brutal.

Regarding Sexton - he clearly needs to get to grips with the new ball, but some of the comments above are ridiculous regarding the general standard of his kicking - you'd swear he'd never nailed crucial penalties over the years. I'd probably start O'Gara against Italy though, as it probably won't be expansive from either side. Kidney doesn't pick on form - look how long Cullen has been kept out, Darcy being kept in at the expense of other options, and how long he's persisted with giving opportunities to penalty machines Buckley and Leamy.

[BonnieShels]

No choice in the UK - and they have Doyle in the studio -yikes! But wouldn't be able to watch Ryle Nugent either, IMHO he is the worst commentator of them all


Really? You reserve that for our Ryle?

He's not commentating anymore anyway, Hugh Cahill has that job now it seems.

[BonnieShels]

ITV have all the games, and are free to air on satellite for the non-Ireland games (FTA in Ireland too, obviously). They've been doing the World Cups since the start as far as I recall, and they've always been brutal.

Regarding Sexton - he clearly needs to get to grips with the new ball, but some of the comments above are ridiculous regarding the general standard of his kicking - you'd swear he'd never nailed crucial penalties over the years. I'd probably start O'Gara against Italy though, as it probably won't be expansive from either side. Kidney doesn't pick on form - look how long Cullen has been kept out, Darcy being kept in at the expense of other options, and how long he's persisted with giving opportunities to penalty machines Buckley and Leamy.


At this stage it can't be the ball. I think its youth and pressure getting to him. Because unless he is kicking at this world cup he has been fine. So there's something going on with him that's more than about the ball.

That Leamy somehow still wears an Ireland shirt really really kills me. He's beyond práisce!

[Real ale Madrid]

At this stage it can't be the ball. I think its youth and pressure getting to him. Because unless he is kicking at this world cup he has been fine. So there's something going on with him that's more than about the ball.

That Leamy somehow still wears an Ireland shirt really really kills me. He's beyond práisce!

Youth? He's 26! has over 70 caps for Leinster and 22 caps for Ireland. It's bizarre the excuses people make for him. O'Gara deserves the nod based on performances of both over the last seven games.

[BonnieShels]

The pressure of playing for Ireland is obviously a bigger burden than playing for Leinster, as it should be.
From the way he is prepping his kicks there's something else going on. I'd imagine dropping him coldly on that basis of one aspect of the game would exacerbate it. He has performed well outside of that.

I would still start him whilst we battle the Italian front row and then bring ROG on to ping the Italians around the pitch.

[Macy]

At this stage it can't be the ball. I think its youth and pressure getting to him. Because unless he is kicking at this world cup he has been fine. So there's something going on with him that's more than about the ball.
It could be technique too - happened to him before, and then he changed something minor and he was back into the 90%'s. Think golfers swing. But it could be in the pressure situation the technique is going - it's too hard to tell from the outside.

Not particularly trying to make the case for Sexton over O'Gara for Italy, but you'd swear from our Munster contingent that O'Gara never missed a kick himself, especially not under pressure, like for example to win the HC. I'd probably just about go with O'Gara for Italy, based on the type of game I think it'll be, but some of the commentary on this thread regarding Sexton is just partisan bs.

[Kingdom]

Really? You reserve that for our Ryle?

He's not commentating anymore anyway, Hugh Cahill has that job now it seems.

I enjoy the child at Xmas commentating approach of Ryle Nugent for the Irish rugger games - in fact I miss him now he's head of sport at RTE

[geysir]

O'Gara has missed kicks eg. to win the HC and he has nailed kicks time after time to win big games. In other games he has nailed what I would call huge pressure kicks, converting from the touchline or from the 1/2 way line on a wet day. We know what O'Gara has, for better and for worse. Sexton has not demonstrated for Ireland that he is ready in the kicking depatment. Hopefully he can work on this successfully as he definitely looks the part. If Sexton is picked to start again for the Italy game and he keeps missing the kicks then he is kicking himself out of the starting team.

[bennocelt]

Some of ye guys havent a clue about sport at all - one wonders about yis!

[Macy]

O'Gara has missed kicks eg. to win the HC and he has nailed kicks time after time to win big games. In other games he has nailed what I would call huge pressure kicks, converting from the touchline or from the 1/2 way line on a wet day. We know what O'Gara has, for better and for worse. Sexton has not demonstrated for Ireland that he is ready in the kicking depatment. Hopefully he can work on this successfully as he definitely looks the part. If Sexton is picked to start again for the Italy game and he keeps missing the kicks then he is kicking himself out of the starting team.
South Africa 2009, with 2 broken fingers? Never mind in the HC. Sexton's out of form kicking wise, not some spoofer who's never been able to convert under pressure.

[BonnieShels]

It could be technique too - happened to him before, and then he changed something minor and he was back into the 90%'s. Think golfers swing. But it could be in the pressure situation the technique is going - it's too hard to tell from the outside.

Not particularly trying to make the case for Sexton over O'Gara for Italy, but you'd swear from our Munster contingent that O'Gara never missed a kick himself, especially not under pressure, like for example to win the HC. I'd probably just about go with O'Gara for Italy, based on the type of game I think it'll be, but some of the commentary on this thread regarding Sexton is just partisan bs.


That's a good point. I heard over the summer that he had changed his technique. Think it was during the summer series I heard it.

He could be our Padraig.

[geysir]

South Africa 2009, with 2 broken fingers? Never mind in the HC. Sexton's out of form kicking wise, not some spoofer who's never been able to convert under pressure.
I never even hinted that Sexton was a spoofer.
He's out of kicking form now, that's the issue isn't it, not the rest of his game? However, didn't he did show signs in earlier Ireland games, of missing convertible kicks? but then it was within the boundaries of blooding in a young player to this level, for longer term benefit.

[bennocelt]

Exactly Geysir - but then some of the new footiers seem to be just out of school so maybe their memories are not as long as us oldtimers -cough

[BonnieShels]

OTB reporting that we are going with ROG and Murray

[Charlie Darwin]

The papers are still saying he'll go for an unchanged XV. If it is Murray/ROG, that'll be the fourth different half-back combination in four pool games. He seems to have given up on Reddan/ROG after using it and O'Leary/Sexton exclusively in the warm-up games. He needs to make up his mind at some point.

[geysir]

Thornley in the IT writes (from 12 hours in the future)

Conor Murray and Ronan O’Gara ran through most of the session along with the rest of the front-liners, supporting the likelihood they are set to start ahead of Eoin Reddan and Jonathan Sexton.

[BonnieShels]

Being reported on NewsTalk that O'Connell is a doubt.

[Real ale Madrid]

Same team that started against Australia except O'Gara and Murray start at half back.

Whatever about the out half call, delighted Murray is starting. Don't rate Reddan at all.

[Macy]

No complaints with the changes - he's never going to do anything off the wall, and it's clear he considers the half backs in combinations rather than alone.

btw just on the whole kicking debate over the last few days - it hasn't been mentioned about England cheating to give Wilkinson an advantage of more used balls (which appear to be "better"). Wilkinson is struggling, and blaming the balls, which does suggest there might be more to it than just Sexton's bottle or technique. It'll be interesting to see whether O'Gara has any more issues starting than coming on later.

[BonnieShels]

Read about that England thing yesterday.

That's a very good point about ROG coming into the game later but he did start against Russia so that's that out the window.

Don't be surprised that the two Jonny's are just under pressure.

[Macy]

Not the same pressure for the Russia game. O'Gara is the right choice for Sunday. Could be Sexton's having more trouble with that ball than O'Gara, who's had several 'mares in Rome with the mitre they use.

[BonnieShels]

He still had to get the kicks though. Pressure or not.

[Macy]

He still had to get the kicks though. Pressure or not.
Not disagreeing with that, just disagreeing with the theory that sexton is just shíte that some have put forward.

[BonnieShels]

He's far from ****e. He's just in ****e form. Anyone that holds that view us not really knowledgeable enough to give their opinion any due. I would prefer to see him start against Italy but thankfully we have 2 world class out halfs so we have the options that we have.

[Spudulika]

Russia putting it up to Australia. Local commentators are going mental.

[Charlie Darwin]

I woke up just in time to see the last 20 minutes of England-Scotland and to see the Scots throw away the victory (though I think they needed an 8-point win anyway). France losing to Tonga...