First Division 2010

[Sam_Heggy]

Derry's squad is not that young or inexperienced.
Players like, McCallion, McChrystal, Doherty, Farren, Molloy and Deery have all played in a very strong Derry Premier division outfit in the past.
Parky, whilst getting slated in muckerville, is a class act and was one of our top performers in this division in 2007 (when IMO the standard was much higher than it is the past 2 seasons). Easily good enough to play in a top first division side and in the Prem.
Scoltock, Friars, Sweeney and Cassidy have all played numerous years in the Premier Division of the IL.
The young lads Muckers speak of are Shane and Patrick McEleney (Irish Under 19 internationals), James McLean, Ruari Harkin and David McDaid (all with Premier Division experience with Derry), Seamus Sharkey (prem and first div experience last season with Harps and Derry), McBride, McCrudden, McAuley and Lafferty (who have all just returned from spell in England or Scotland respectively)

I think we (first division and even a few Prem division sides) would all be happy with a squad boasting those players.

[SwanVsDalton]

You only mention the players we brought in this season and fail to recognise theres quite a few in our squad who Kenny believed was capable of winning the Premier league last season (most likely still on twice the average wage in Derry).
I talk to alot of fans, and if you think beating Salthill and Mervue is playing above ourselves then i dont know what games your watching week in week out ?

As Flexy pointed out, a few of our most important (and experienced) have been injured for most of the year, not to mention Farren’s slowly getting back to fitness. As for the ‘Salthill/Mervue’ comment, it’s a bit easy to pick on them and ignore the good sides in the division – Mons, Waterford, Limerick not to mention Shels and Cork, who are never easy to travel to. Throw in a ‘do-or-die’ derby against Harps, and it’s obviously competitive.


Derry's squad is not that young or inexperienced.
Players like, McCallion, McChrystal, Doherty, Farren, Molloy and Deery have all played in a very strong Derry Premier division outfit in the past.

As I said Deery, club captain, has been injured most of the season and Farren has had to battle back to fitness after cancer. The two players, out of the above, who would really make the difference putting sides away…


Parky, whilst getting slated in muckerville, is a class act and was one of our top performers in this division in 2007 (when IMO the standard was much higher than it is the past 2 seasons). Easily good enough to play in a top first division side and in the Prem.

We’re just going to flat out have to disagree here – maybe he was three years ago, but he ain’t anymore.


Scoltock, Friars, Sweeney and Cassidy have all played numerous years in the Premier Division of the IL.

For the lower teams – Institute, Newry City, Limavady –in a league which has different demands than the First Division. Ability in LOI unproven before this season.


The young lads Muckers speak of are Shane and Patrick McEleney (Irish Under 19 internationals), James McLean, Ruari Harkin and David McDaid (all with Premier Division experience with Derry), Seamus Sharkey (prem and first div experience last season with Harps and Derry), McBride, McCrudden, McAuley and Lafferty (who have all just returned from spell in England or Scotland respectively)

None of them, aside from McLean, have any prem experience with City. Harkin, Sharkey and McDaid barely featured, instead going out on loan. And the rest, as you say, just returning and so are young and unproven in LOI. Which is what I’m saying.


I think we (first division and even a few Prem division sides) would all be happy with a squad boasting those players.

Don’t disagree – it’s fine squad, loads of potential. But potential doesn’t carry off a league as physical, and demanding, as the First Division. IF ALL these young players turned out to be fantastic acquisitions, who can deal with the rigours of the league (given the number of them, highly unlikely) and IF the squad stays injury free (which hasn’t happened at all) then we’re as good as you say. But realistically that was never going to be the case.

[micls]

Which other squads, on paper, would you rate as on par or better than Derrys?

For me, the only one that comes near is Waterfords. Obviously Mons are proving there's more to success than individuals and have built a fine team with a couple of quality players. But if you were simply to look at players

[SwanVsDalton]

To be fair probably just Waterford's, who I backed for the title pre-season. So, yeah, looking just at players we are pretty strong. Still, as you say it's more than the players. Squads, like Mons, have come together to be a consistent and tough side and others - such and Shels and Limerick - we're always going to be challenging after the last couple of years.

My point is even with a good squad, staying injury free and fulfilling its potential, I still would not have seen us cantering off with what is a very competitive league. Just because we threatened to do doesn't mean City were always shoe-in's. Not that I wouldn't have preferred just winning our games and not having to go through the nerve jangling, nail chewing of the next few weeks...

[micls]

My point is even with a good squad, staying injury free and fulfilling its potential, I still would not have seen us cantering off with what is a very competitive league. Just because we threatened to do doesn't mean City were always shoe-in's. Not that I wouldn't have preferred just winning our games and not having to go through the nerve jangling, nail chewing of the next few weeks...

But I think the point is ye were cantering off with it. Regardless of your squad or manager any team in any league who goes from being ahead by 12 to behind by 1 has to ask questions and have a look at the manager. It's his job to motivate the players and get their heads right.

Obviously the end of the season is the time to judge properly but the rate ye've lost points is ridiculous. No team with the quality ye have should have let that happen.

[SwanVsDalton]

But I think the point is ye were cantering off with it. Regardless of your squad or manager any team in any league who goes from being ahead by 12 to behind by 1 has to ask questions and have a look at the manager. It's his job to motivate the players and get their heads right.

Obviously the end of the season is the time to judge properly but the rate ye've lost points is ridiculous. No team with the quality ye have should have let that happen.

I'm not convinced. By the same argument, Kenny gets all the praise for having the team play out of their skin. So what are we saying, he goes from brilliant to bone-headed overnight? Look manager's made plenty of mistakes recently but our demise is more than just tactical or motivational foul-up's, it has also to do with the inexperienced and unproven nature of our squad.
Our 'quality' is arguable, therefore so is the assertion about whether us not letting the collapse happen.

Look - I'm not saying 'ach sure it's grand, we're rubbish anyway, whatever.' We had one hand on the trophy, of course questions are being asked and if we don't go up Kenny is going to get plenty of flax, rightly. But I think it has to be kept in mind - we were never a side of world beaters and a league win was never a gimme (sorry McBride's) like some are suggesting. I'm just not as surprised as some that teams are picking us off. Disappointed sure, but not surprised.

[SkStu]

Kenny's biggest flaw as a manager has always been his inability to see a great season out to the end. I dont know if he just ends up crappin himself or what but he doesnt seem to have too much bottle.

Just my two cents.

[SwanVsDalton]

Question has to be asked, he's obviously got form. Though personally I'd hold this against him less than losing out to Cork and Shels for the league.

[micls]

I'm not convinced. By the same argument, Kenny gets all the praise for having the team play out of their skin. So what are we saying, he goes from brilliant to bone-headed overnight? Look manager's made plenty of mistakes recently but our demise is more than just tactical or motivational foul-up's, it has also to do with the inexperienced and unproven nature of our squad.
Our 'quality' is arguable, therefore so is the assertion about whether us not letting the collapse happen.
Em, yeah. Kenny did get the praise when ye were winning all around ye.....He signed an excellent squad for this division and had them playing good football. It's not like this is something we didn't know he was capable of. Since though he has shown that has struggled to get that squad through the rough patch.

Every team hits a rough patch in a season, what defines the team and manager is how you deal with it and how quickly you come out of it. Your team and Kenny are struggling bigtime over the past month or 2. Tonight will be vital, you simply have to beat mervue and play well to get the confidence right for the run-in. If you do that and win the league then Kenny will get the praise for turning it around. If not then he'l get the rightly deserved criticism.


Look - I'm not saying 'ach sure it's grand, we're rubbish anyway, whatever.' We had one hand on the trophy, of course questions are being asked and if we don't go up Kenny is going to get plenty of flax, rightly. But I think it has to be kept in mind - we were never a side of world beaters and a league win was never a gimme (sorry McBride's) like some are suggesting. I'm just not as surprised as some that teams are picking us off. Disappointed sure, but not surprised.

I don't see how any fan could not be surprised at going from 12 points ahead to a point behind in a couple of months. Maybe at the start of the season you didnt expect it to be easy but are you seriously saying when ye were 12 clear you thought ye'd lose that lead? I dont think Kenny did, or your players.

His job this season has been to manage the best squad in the division to win it with a mixture of experienced players and some newbies. If he is 'the best manager in the league' as most of your fans thought not long ago then he'l accomplish this. If he doesn't then he should be sacked for bottling it.

[SwanVsDalton]

Em, yeah. Kenny did get the praise when ye were winning all around ye.....He signed an excellent squad for this division and had them playing good football. It's not like this is something we didn't know he was capable of. Since though he has shown that has struggled to get that squad through the rough patch.

Personally I didn't really see Kenny getting the praise, more of a oh it was inevitable with that squad kind of thing. He's certainly getting the stick now, a lot of it deserved, some of it not imo...


Every team hits a rough patch in a season, what defines the team and manager is how you deal with it and how quickly you come out of it. Your team and Kenny are struggling bigtime over the past month or 2. Tonight will be vital, you simply have to beat mervue and play well to get the confidence right for the run-in. If you do that and win the league then Kenny will get the praise for turning it around. If not then he'l get the rightly deserved criticism.

Agreed.


I don't see how any fan could not be surprised at going from 12 points ahead to a point behind in a couple of months. Maybe at the start of the season you didnt expect it to be easy but are you seriously saying when ye were 12 clear you thought ye'd lose that lead? I dont think Kenny did, or your players.

Didn't say that. Just pointing out the gap between us and the Mons, Limerick's, Waterford's of this world was never 12 points. And recent results have borne it out. Did you think we'd ever get 12 points clear? Did anyone? I certainly didn't, our squad was never that much better.


His job this season has been to manage the best squad in the division to win it with a mixture of experienced players and some newbies. If he is 'the best manager in the league' as most of your fans thought not long ago then he'l accomplish this. If he doesn't then he should be sacked for bottling it.

Don't know where this 'best manager in the league' thing came from, certainly not me. But this 'some newbies' comment is what I'm getting at - it's not 'some' it's mostly. Out of a squad of 24 we have seven or truly experienced players - and that's including Deery, who's been out most of the season, Farren, who has struggled post-illness, and Parkhouse, who is dire. The rest are youngsters or IL imports - potentially good, yeah, but unproven.

'Best squad in the league'? Come on, it's been argued to death - I don't think so obviously. But regardless of who's best, there's never been much to choose between a host of First Division squads and it's represented in the table. I'll be furious if we don't go up, but everyone has to be realistic about the difference between how good we are and how good we can be.

[MariborKev]

6-0, doesn't that mean that Kenny is now confirmed as the Second Coming?

[Mr A]

6-0, doesn't that mean that Kenny is now confirmed as the Second Coming?

http://businessclassnyc.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jesus1.jpg

[SwanVsDalton]

Should've been nine - Kenny out.

[GalwayRed]

So its 5 games to go for all the promotion contenders(except mons who have 6).
Derrys run in looks relatively straight forward on paper but I think I've found some causes for optimism. They have to go away to Wexford who are a tough team to play against and have nothing to lose unlike Derry who will be under a lot of pressure. Derry have ourselves in the Brandywell and if we are serious about wanting to go up this season then we should be aiming to win that match. We wont make it easy for them thats for sure. Derry also have the derby with Harps. I'm sure Harps will be desperate to put a dent in Derrys promotion hopes.
Monaghan then have a similar enough run in to ourselves. Would like a draw from Mons-Waterford. That one could go either way with both teams seeming to be in decent form. Cork away will be very difficult with the form they're in. I think Cork could finally beat Monaghan this season. Playing Limerick is usually tough home or away but unless they pick up their form soon I'd expect Mons to win that one.
Waterford have a tough enough run in. After Mons away they have 3 potential banana skins. I expect them to pick up the 2 home wins but I'm going to remain optimistic about Longford away. I think Longford have beaten them twice in Flancare this season so they obviously have a bit of trouble up there.
We have a very tough run in. We simply have to beat Cork in Tolka. I wouldn't be surprised with that finishing as a draw. Like I said if we are serious about wanting promotion then we need to aim to beat Derry in the Brandywell. I expect us to lose that one though. Limerick away in our second last game of the season will be a nightmare. If we are still in the mix by then they will do everything in their power to stop us in Jackman.
Cork probably have a little too much to do. The only easy match I see for them is Salthill at home. Wexford and Harps away will be both be tough places to go. I can see them dropping points somewhere along the way which they cant afford.
Limerick are 7 behind 3rd and I dont see that being made up in 5 games especially when they still have to travel to Monaghan and play us.
So that would bring us up to the final day of the season. After all that I can see the Mons-Derry match still being a title decider but I would expect Derry to go into the game top of the league. Waterford clearly have a better run in then ourselves but I would hope we could still go into that final day match with at least an outside chance of third. The pessimist in me thinks the play off places will already be out of reach by then though.
So my revised prediction is
1. Derry
2. Mons
3. Waterford
4. Shels
5. Cork

[**FrOsTy**]

I think if we win next week we will go onto win the league draw/loss then its 3rd at best.

[legendz]

Shel's vs Cork will be a big game this weekend. Both have an outside chance of getting into the play-offs.

[Candystripe]

I think if we win next week we will go onto win the league draw/loss then its 3rd at best.

Do you think Waterford will make up five points on Derry!!!!!?

[legendz]

Waterford can't be discounted but once it gets to 4 games to go, you'd want to be within 3 points of the target.

[thischarmingman]

Do you think Waterford will make up five points on Derry!!!!!?

Way to jinx it...

[**FrOsTy**]

Do you think Waterford will make up five points on Derry!!!!!?

If we beat Mons then yes. I can see shels beating Derry where if we beat Mons we realistically should go on to take 3 points from Harps, Longford and Athlone.

Coming down to the last game of the season where we play Shels and you play Monaghan. So yes, with a win against Monaghan I think we can catch ye. However,it is out of our hands and we need results to go our way.

[harps1954]

In my view, for Monaghan or Wateford to catch Derry, there needs to be a winner in that game this weekend. If it finishes in a draw, and Derry beat Wexford, it's as good as over.

[legendz]

Not to go on but the 4th placed side should be getting a crack at the play-offs as well. I don't agree at all with the 8th vs 9th play-off in the Premier.

[**FrOsTy**]

4th place in the firsy division doesnt deserve a premier shot. Infact 3rd doesnt even deserve it. 1st and 2nd are the only ones who should be going and both both should be automatic.

[legendz]

4th place in the firsy division doesnt deserve a premier shot. Infact 3rd doesnt even deserve it. 1st and 2nd are the only ones who should be going and both both should be automatic.
I'd kind of agree with the principle of that. I wouldn't go as far as giving the top two automatic promotion though. 2nd could play 9th in a play-off. Advantage of winning the Division is guaranteed promotion.

[**FrOsTy**]

Ye that would probably be the best way! Anyway 3rd gets a chance and uf we don't beat Mons then hooray for that

[CSFShels]

Shel's vs Cork will be a big game this weekend. Both have an outside chance of getting into the play-offs.
We're 2 points outside the playoffs having won 6 and drawn 1 of our last 7 games. While I wouldn't call us favourites referring to us as having an outside chance of getting playoffs is definitely downplaying our chances. Very marginal between us and Waterford and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Monaghan get dragged in to a battle with us and maybe Cork if they can beat us this week.

[passerrby]

reports of our immenent demise have been greatly exagerated

[Mr A]

Huge, huge games this weekend.

If Derry stutter at all in Wexford their jitters may return with a vengeance. Their game against Mervue could scarcely have come at a better time though, exactly the sort of confidence boost they needed. But they'll know that Mervue are pretty dreadful and that result does not mean anything unless they build on it.

The losers in the Monaghan Waterford match may be out of the race for top spot, while the losers in the Shels Cork game may well find a position in the playoffs getting beyond them.

[Flexy]

Cant see Derry stuttering in Wexford. The big pitch and good surface will suit them, especially with the wide players Derry have. Can see Waterford and Mons being a score draw while Shels and Cork can see that being a 0-0. I think the big question will be how Monaghan react to their cup defeat last week. Always hard coming back from a cup defeat, whereas the other teams will all be on a high.
Dream scenario would be winning the league at home to Harps on the 2nd last day of the season.

[CSFShels]

Huge, huge games this weekend.

If Derry stutter at all in Wexford their jitters may return with a vengeance. Their game against Mervue could scarcely have come at a better time though, exactly the sort of confidence boost they needed. But they'll know that Mervue are pretty dreadful and that result does not mean anything unless they build on it.

The losers in the Monaghan Waterford match may be out of the race for top spot, while the losers in the Shels Cork game may well find a position in the playoffs getting beyond them.
If we lose to Cork, how exactly would the position still be beyond us but not beyond them? Unless the scoreline had a gap of 6 or more we'd still be ahead.

[Mr A]

If we lose to Cork, how exactly would the position still be beyond us but not beyond them? Unless the scoreline had a gap of 6 or more we'd still be ahead.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/14/129000380489723430.jpg

[sheao]

If we lose to Cork, how exactly would the position still be beyond us but not beyond them? Unless the scoreline had a gap of 6 or more we'd still be ahead.

Ye have Limerick, Derry and Waterford to play.
So if we do win Friday, nothing is guarnteed as far as Shels are concerned.

[BonnieShels]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/14/129000380489723430.jpg

Is that not a tuna?

[BonnieShels]

Can't wait for tomorrow. Gonna be a whopper.

[micls]

Great to see this excitement coming to the end of the season from so many teams.

A winner in the Cork Shels game gives them a chance to push for playoff, draw knocks us out of it but leaves Shels with a chance, and a loss will knock either side out of it. While shels would have the same points as us their run-in would be too tough to make up the points imo.

A winner between Mons and Waterford puts them in pole position or a challenge for 1st and most likely a guaranteed 2nd. A draw leaves Mons a mountain to climb to catch Derry(presuming derry win) with a tough run in and leaves Waterford focussed on keeping us and Shels off their tails.

So many permutations, so much fun! The night could make or break a lot of teams season

[**FrOsTy**]

Well I wouldnt say a loss for Mons would keep them out of second as they still hold the upper hand with that gamein hand against Salthill but it will be mentally tough for them. 3 loses on the bounce and a big potential banana skin where they simply have to win only days after playing us. Mons are still chip leader for 2nd IMO but they have to win all of there games if we beat them Tomorrow night. This first division is great :D so much excitment.Fair to say the FD has defo had the best league in terms of excitment and last day nail biting then th premier has in the last 5 years? Still want out of it though ha

[thischarmingman]

Well I wouldnt say a loss for Mons would keep them out of second as they still hold the upper hand with that gamein hand against Salthill but it will be mentally tough for them. 3 loses on the bounce and a big potential banana skin where they simply have to win only days after playing us. Mons are still chip leader for 2nd IMO but they have to win all of there games if we beat them Tomorrow night. This first division is great :D so much excitment.Fair to say the FD has defo had the best league in terms of excitment and last day nail biting then th premier has in the last 5 years? Still want out of it though ha

2005? Derry and Cork? 2006? Derry and Shels?

[Mr A]

Run ins.

MONAGHAN UNITED
(A) Salthill Devon
(A) Cork City
(H) Limerick
(A) Mervue United
(H) Derry City

DERRY CITY
(H) Shelbourne
(A) Salthill Devon
(H) Finn Harps
(A) Monaghan United

WATERFORD UNITED
(H) Finn Harps
(A) Longford Town
(H) Athlone Town
(A) Shelbourne

SHELBOURNE
(A) Derry City
(H) Mervue United
(A) Limerick
(H) Waterford United

[BonnieShels]

What a night. Great performance from the lads and that was some result from Mons. Oh, thanks Yoofs!

;)

[Mr A]

It's official.

I love Youths.

[BonnieShels]

Yeah. Always have a lot of time for them. Even more now.

[GalwayRed]

A win in Derry next week and we will only be a point behind them. Im nearly tempted to head along to that Salthill-Monaghan game to give Salthill some extra support.

[passerrby]

heres hoping for a shels derry draw

[MariborKev]

We're in freefall.

If you score first, or can keep it 1-0 then any side has the chance of taking points of us. I posted in this thread a few weeks back that I reckoned we'd probably miss the playoffs if we didn't win the League, looking more and more likely.

[sheao]

City probably are better off not going up this year, a season too early imo . But it has been a brilliant first season for us overall, to consider that we were in with a shot of the playoffs right to the end is fantastic when you think that we had no pre-season .
Game last night in Tolka was poor, we did'nt turn up and show the form we have of late. Cummins looked tired after his midweek trip to Estonia. The City players gave up after Ian Ryan got Shels 2nd. Before that all we were missing was a good ball in the final 3rd of the pitch.
FORAS should now focus on preparing for next season , where hopefully we can give automatic promotion a real go.

Really is going to be an interesting end to the First Division though.

[Schumi]

It's official.

I love Youths.But you told the judge that you wouldn't.

[passerrby]

It's official.

I love Youths.

wow gary slow down

[SkStu]

It's official.

I love Youths.

fixed. ;)

[Jofspring]

Limerick are most likely out of it because i can't see Shels or Waterford slipping up but if either of them or possibly both of them do this weekend and Limerick can beat Wexford Youths on Thursday night then Limerick could close the gap back to two points. I think we'll keep the pressure on Waterford and Shels for as long as possible. By seasons end i think there will only be 2 or 3 points separating 3rd, 4th, 5th and possibly 6th.

[Candystripe]

If Derry can beat Shels on Sat then I think it will come down to the last game away to Monaghan.If we fail to win the game then I think we'll be pushed to finish 2nd but will still make the play-offs....just!

There is not many confident people around the Derry area right now about our chances to hold on to a lead and with Shels the form team in the league and ourselfs probably on the worst run in years then I don't hold out much hope for a win on Sat.