What the FAI thinks of progressive clubs:

[Jofspring]

T

there'd be no option oso the Thomond company would be able to drive a really hard bargain. Maybe they would be more receptive than I give them credit for, but they have to look after their own interests and Limerick would definitely need them more than they'd need Limerick FC.



Almost 100% sure Thomond Park have a charge (€100,000 last i heard) and thats it so they wouldn't be trying to drive a hard bargain. Relations would also be good between Thomond Park and Limerick what with Limerick being involved in some way in the Shane Geoghegan Trust Day.

[Charlie Darwin]

The Financial Arrangements for this particular game. You know NOTHING about them. Zero. Zilch. Nada. You're just blindly speculating.
Of course I know more than nothing. More tickets sold = more income. Own stadium = no rent. It shouldn't be difficult to extrapolate that a fixture in the Aviva will generate more money.


Define "Irish Football"

Could mean anything from putting jacuzzis in Abbotstown to building a clubhouse for Ballymun United to paying off the FAI's Lansdowne debts*

*That last one is actually quite likely. Two sides of the same coin. The quicker the Lansdowne debt is paid the better, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I'm not sure what arrangements the FAI has to service its debt - it may well be that they are currently on schedule and they wouldn't need to put the proceeds of a hypothetical game towards servicing it - but at the end of the day it's a few hundred grand that will help improve the organisation's financial standing.

As much as I'm sure money is wasted on junkets and the like at the FAI, it is a not-for-profit organisation that puts a lot of money into the game at grassroots level, and I'd expect a cash injection from any fixture would filter down to the clubs and underage game in some form. I don't have an awful lot of faith in the organisation, but I don't think it's the worst in the world either.


Almost 100% sure Thomond Park have a charge (€100,000 last i heard) and thats it so they wouldn't be trying to drive a hard bargain. Relations would also be good between Thomond Park and Limerick what with Limerick being involved in some way in the Shane Geoghegan Trust Day.
That's interesting, but seemingly counter-productive in this case. If that's true, I can definitely see why the FAI chose to play South Africa and Australia in Thomond if they were asking for a fraction of what the GAA was asking for Croker.

[Lim till i die]

Of course I know more than nothing. More tickets sold = more income. Own stadium = no rent. It shouldn't be difficult to extrapolate that a fixture in the Aviva will generate more money.

You know nothing about the financial arrangements for the proposed Limerick FC v FC Barcelona game in Thomond Park on the 31st of July.

All you have done here is compare the potential revenues from this game with the potential revenues from another game which only exists inside your head.

It's not even about Limerick FC anyway though is it. There's a bigger picture here, somewhere in this thread.......

[pineapple stu]

Of course I know more than nothing. More tickets sold = more income. Own stadium = no rent. It shouldn't be difficult to extrapolate that a fixture in the Aviva will generate more money.
Why on earth are you comparing two completely different games?

[Charlie Darwin]

Because it's not feasible for both to take place...

[pineapple stu]

There is no Barca game in the Aviva. It's pie in the sky. There's no point comparing it to anything.

[osarusan]

Because it's not feasible for both to take place...

It was never ever feasible for Barca to play in the Aviva this year as the only day they're available is the day the IRFU have a rugby doubleheader in the Aviva.

And it's perfectly feasible for Limerick to play them this year, and an airtricity/Ireland XI to play them next year.

This is why the possible Limerick friendly isn't taking much-needed funds out of the game - it's either Limerick or nobody on July 31st. The FAI have gone for nobody.

And i'm no mathematician or accountant, but even if Limerick's friendly had generated 1 euro for domestic football, it's 1 euro more than no friendly at all on that day will generate.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well the FAI have said they're in active negotiations with Barcelona so they must have some date in mind, unless they're lying about the whole thing. If the FAI doesn't organise a corresponding fixture, I'll admit that they fudged it (admittedly they've fudged just about everything so far) but as a fan of a Dublin team and Irish football in general I think a fixture at the Aviva is vastly preferable to one in Limerick.

[Dodge]

They said they were looking at next year from what I read

[A N Mouse]

Well the FAI have said they're in active negotiations with Barcelona so they must have some date in mind, unless they're lying about the whole thing. If the FAI doesn't organise a corresponding fixture, I'll admit that they fudged it (admittedly they've fudged just about everything so far) but as a fan of a Dublin team and Irish football in general I think a fixture at the Aviva is vastly preferable to one in Limerick.

I think the vast majority of loi fans would prefer fixtures anywhere than limerick.

But in fairness it's probably a better place for limerick to stage a home fixture than dublin.

I don't recommend holding your breath waiting on the fai to announce a game vs barca, rumor would have it at least a year off.

[Charlie Darwin]

In that case they've probably screwed up. I guess we'll have to wait and see what this contract business involves then.

[Longfordian]

What was that about the clubs banding together?


A meeting of the Airtricity League Clubs took place yesterday prior to the FAI Cup Draw. Discussions on the continuation of the current League Merger with the FAI was the sole purpose of the meeting. It was accepted that the merger with the FAI has been an overwhelming success and has addressed many difficulties of the clubs and the league in general.

The sentiments expressed at the meeting were very positive towards continuing with the Merger and the Clubs acknowledged the positive role that the FAI has played in developing the game at Senior level in this country. The outcome of the meeting was that a postal vote would be undertaken to confirm the Clubs intention to continue with the merger with the FAI.

As the meeting was breaking up a representative of Limerick FC addressed the meeting and detailed their current difficulties concerning their proposed friendly with FC Barcelona. On listening to Limerick FC’s viewpoint, the meeting agreed to contact the FAI seeking clarification on matters that may preclude a friendly match being sanctioned.

At no stage was a formal vote of the clubs undertaken.

The Clubs feel that some of the sensational reporting that followed this meeting is not truly reflective of the context of the meeting. Portrayal of the meeting in this light was not envisaged and was certainly not intended.

Fear of adverse reaction from the powers that be by the looks of things

[Dodge]

Or at least holding fire until they get a reply

if they get that, then we'll see

[jebus]

FAI most likely made it clear that clubs should wind their neck in on this or they will pull out out of the LoI

I know a lot of people are hoping that happens but I still think a national league needs to be run by the national association (preferably a more competent one but this is the hand the cloubs have been dealt with)

Fran Gavin needs top resign however after his performance on MNS, clearly stumbling over his half-truths and trying to shift 100% of the attention on to Limerick so the hard questions about this 3rd party agreement aren't asked

[OneRedArmy]

In that case they've probably screwed up. I guess we'll have to wait and see what this contract business involves then.Au contraire. They haven't screwed up.

They've done exactly what they wanted to do, and if Limerick had rolled over like the FAI presumed they would, we wouldn't know about any of this.

Of course the FAI had no agreement with Barca. Their name may have been on an FAI short or a long list to consider a friendly at some future date (along with AC Milan and various other footballing superpowers) but its clear that the FAI are pre-emptively laying down a line in the sand as to how things will work in the new Aviva world, where cashflow to the Association is the overwhelming concern.

It will be interesting to see which clubs crumble first. I'm actually surprised they got as far as signing a joint statement. Over half the clubs wouldn't either have the demand/wherewithall or contacts to organise a big-name friendly anyway, so they are the easy targets for the FAI. Once you get a couple onside, its divide and conquer and before you know it Limerick are left sitting on their own like chumps.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think you're being a little fanciful. They're unlikely to go to all this trouble unless somebody was telling them they couldn't sanction the fixture.

[jebus]

Then you would have to wonder why our national association has made such binding agreements that work against the best interests of the individual clubs no?

[fieldofmarkets]

I think you're being a little fanciful. They're unlikely to go to all this trouble unless somebody was telling them they couldn't sanction the fixture.

You've got to consider the possibility that the 3rd party agreement doesn't exist...at least one that precludes any other games by a LOI side of 15/20k attendance. I want to see the clubs force disclosure of this agreement. If it does exist, I suspect its the Aviva sponsorship deal. 15k may be the breakeven point for attendance at that stadium. In order to get value for their sponsorship money, they want it open for as many game days as possible.

Its one thing for the FAI to hold all their games there....its quite another for them to prevent individual clubs from holding games elsewhere. While Dublin clubs could potentially host a glamour friendly there....none of the other clubs could..although I doubt the FAI would allow say St.Pats bring Mourinho's Inter to the Aviva anyway as not enough of the revenue would go directly to Abbottsown, prefering instead to bring Inter themselves.

Now this whole mess could only happen in one place, Limerick. As there's no other suitable stadium for marquee teams to visit with attendance over 15/20k. So I guess it won't effect most clubs. Removing of this facility from Limerick FC's potential revenue is a huge shame for Limerick FC and the city. I wonder if the FAI or Aviva foresaw the possiblity of Thomond Park taking revenue from the new Aviva in the long run.

The bigger picture however is that all clubs now know they have limits placed on how much they can grow by the FAI. Better hope nice stadiums don't get built in a town near you. The clubs need to have all commercial agreements and restrictions aired out in front of them before they agree to re-upping the PA. The current setup facilitates the moving of potential revenue from the clubs to the FAI so we can pay an Italian €2M to fail with a team from the English Premiership. Admittedly the potential revenue of the clubs was historically low...but as we've just seen, could be much much higher. Those limits are now the same for all our LOI clubs.

[jebus]

If it is due to their contract with Aviva I'd be interested to know if the clubs were informed of a change to the participation agreement as obviously the Aviva deal was only announced last year. Yes you could still blame the clubs for overlooking it if that turned out to be the case but it would seem quite shady of the FAI to just insert it and not inform the clubs.

That of course is going under the assumption that the Aviva deal is what has caused this, but I think it's a fair one to make at this point, especially considering the silence from the FAI on the matter

[Charlie Darwin]

Then you would have to wonder why our national association has made such binding agreements that work against the best interests of the individual clubs no?
It's worked against the best interests of one club in this particular instance. If this clause does in fact exist, it's an unusual one for a company like Kentaro or Platinum One to put in unless they had an intention of actually invoking it. You'd have to take into account the fixtures organised by Kentaro or whoever in judging whether the deal was beneficial or detrimental for Irish clubs.


You've got to consider the possibility that the 3rd party agreement doesn't exist...at least one that precludes any other games by a LOI side of 15/20k attendance. I want to see the clubs force disclosure of this agreement. If it does exist, I suspect its the Aviva sponsorship deal. 15k may be the breakeven point for attendance at that stadium. In order to get value for their sponsorship money, they want it open for as many game days as possible.
Well a game at Thomond wouldn't interfere with that as the FAI doesn't appear to be arranging a game on that date. I hadn't considered the possibility Aviva could be the third party, though. It's an interesting possibility.


Now this whole mess could only happen in one place, Limerick. As there's no other suitable stadium for marquee teams to visit with attendance over 15/20k. So I guess it won't effect most clubs. Removing of this facility from Limerick FC's potential revenue is a huge shame for Limerick FC and the city. I wonder if the FAI or Aviva foresaw the possiblity of Thomond Park taking revenue from the new Aviva in the long run.I suspect the RDS may be the intended target as its capacity is just a notch over 15,000 and Kentaro have two upcoming fixtures there.


The bigger picture however is that all clubs now know they have limits placed on how much they can grow by the FAI. Better hope nice stadiums don't get built in a town near you. The clubs need to have all commercial agreements and restrictions aired out in front of them before they agree to re-upping the PA. The current setup facilitates the moving of potential revenue from the clubs to the FAI so we can pay an Italian €2M to fail with a team from the English Premiership. Admittedly the potential revenue of the clubs was historically low...but as we've just seen, could be much much higher. Those limits are now the same for all our LOI clubs. I'm not sure how much Limerick FC would grow as a result of Barcelona's visit. It would be a windfall payday and a massive coup for the club but in all likelihood it would be a once-off.

[WoodquayBoy]

I think it has got the to stage, if the FAI grant the game, they look fools and if they continue to not sanction it, they look fools aswell. They are in a real mess at the moment.
Or to sum up, and declare what appears to be the general consensus - the FAI look like fools, irrespective of anything.

[jebus]

Or to sum up, and declare what appears to be the general consensus - the FAI look like fools, irrespective of anything.

If it looks like a fool, talks like a fool and acts like a fool it must be........John Delaney

[osarusan]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0518/limerick_barcelona.html



Limerick confirm Barcelona friendly is off

Limerick have confirmed that the proposed friendly with Barcelona will not be going ahead.

.......

Limerick FC have been informed by FC Barcelona that the only reason that this match is not going ahead is the decision of the Airtricity League Director & the FAI not to sanction the proposed match.

'The initial decision of Airtricity League Director & the FAI was not changed despite an email request by FC Barcelona to FAI officials on the night of Monday 17th May that confirmed their desire to go ahead with the match with Limerick FC and stated their disagreement with the decision not to sanction the game.

[Jofspring]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0518/limerick_barcelona.html

Yet more bad press for the FAI. It just isn't getting any better for them at this stage. There goes Delaneys comments about not believing Limerick having ever had any match ready to go.

I wonder have the FAI any ideas for alternative fundraisers to raise that kind of money, a harmless table quiz maybe or a nice little friendly with small capacity against Torquay or someone :rolleyes:

[sheao]

Really dont know what to think of the people involved in the FAI . They cancel a friendly that could be a massive benefit financially to Limerick fc and then arrange a friendly with a LOI 11 on the same week as LOI sides play in European competition .
FAI have a lot of questions they have yet to answer.

[Scrufil]

At the end of the day I think it must be Tommy no Bobs fault!!! It must be something in the blood of these Munster men at least that causes them to be such loo-laas. We need an internal coup in the FAI!

[Lim till i die]

What was that about the clubs banding together?

Fear of adverse reaction from the powers that be by the looks of things

Clubs with their own agendas in geneflecting before John Delaneys feet shocker



I'm not sure how much Limerick FC would grow as a result of Barcelona's visit. It would be a windfall payday and a massive coup for the club but in all likelihood it would be a once-off.

An annual friendly in Thomond Park of this nature (which I'd imagine was the plan) would have seen Limerick FC right for the forseeable future, up around the top six to eight clubs in the country which is probably where it belongs.

Instead it's back to depending on the generosity of a backer in Pat O'Sullivan*, who has done an incredible amount of good work on the ground in Limerick since he took over. Above all else in this farce, Pat O'Sullivan deserved better from the FAI.




*Until the end of the year when we are uncerimoniously dumped out of football for the benefit of Delaneys ego - Again.

[osarusan]

Instead it's back to depending on the generosity of a backer in Pat O'Sullivan*, who has done an incredible amount of good work on the ground in Limerick since he took over. Above all else in this farce, Pat O'Sullivan deserved better from the FAI.


Absolutely right.

Pat has come in with the naive idea that the FAI won't f**k with his plans to make Limerick a better part of the community and an independent club in the Markets Field.

Now he knows better.

[Dodge]

Wait, did Darwin just argue that a once off injection of cash would do nothing for a club?

Seriously?

[osarusan]

Wait, did Darwin just argue that a once off injection of cash would do nothing for a club?

Seriously?

His username comes from an award he has his eye on winning.

[Alf Honn]

That would make sense - from what I can gather Thomond Park Stadium Company Limited (awful name) is a 50/50 partnership between Munster Rugby and the IRFU, but the IRFU obviously calls the shots.

You're right that the FAI hold the cards, but were they to sanction a game in Limerick, there'd be no option other than to have it in Thomond, so the Thomond company would be able to drive a really hard bargain. Maybe they would be more receptive than I give them credit for, but they have to look after their own interests and Limerick would definitely need them more than they'd need Limerick FC.


You're the one who questioned my take on the finances. I'm just saying the net financial gain from having a game at the Aviva is greater than having it at Thomond. Fairly basic point.


I don't know enough about the exact contractual details to comment on the exact contractual details. I do know that playing a game in the Aviva is going to bring more money to Irish football than playing it in Thomond.


Of course I know more than nothing. More tickets sold = more income. Own stadium = no rent. It shouldn't be difficult to extrapolate that a fixture in the Aviva will generate more money.

Two sides of the same coin. The quicker the Lansdowne debt is paid the better, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I'm not sure what arrangements the FAI has to service its debt - it may well be that they are currently on schedule and they wouldn't need to put the proceeds of a hypothetical game towards servicing it - but at the end of the day it's a few hundred grand that will help improve the organisation's financial standing.

As much as I'm sure money is wasted on junkets and the like at the FAI, it is a not-for-profit organisation that puts a lot of money into the game at grassroots level, and I'd expect a cash injection from any fixture would filter down to the clubs and underage game in some form. I don't have an awful lot of faith in the organisation, but I don't think it's the worst in the world either.


That's interesting, but seemingly counter-productive in this case. If that's true, I can definitely see why the FAI chose to play South Africa and Australia in Thomond if they were asking for a fraction of what the GAA was asking for Croker.


Two sides of the same coin. The quicker the Lansdowne debt is paid the better, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I'm not sure what arrangements the FAI has to service its debt - it may well be that they are currently on schedule and they wouldn't need to put the proceeds of a hypothetical game towards servicing it - but at the end of the day it's a few hundred grand that will help improve the organisation's financial standing.

As much as I'm sure money is wasted on junkets and the like at the FAI, it is a not-for-profit organisation that puts a lot of money into the game at grassroots level, and I'd expect a cash injection from any fixture would filter down to the clubs and underage game in some form. I don't have an awful lot of faith in the organisation, but I don't think it's the worst in the world either.

---

Are you serious? Not-for-profit by design by not in practice.

The reason why the FAI are in such a financial mess is because John Delaney has made a bags of the stadium financing.

To start, there's the preposterous and greedy pricing of 10-year-tkts (that he now is turning to the very grassroots you mention to buy).

They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment.

This is from a man paid 400K per year! More than the leader of our country.

If, as he admitted on RTE radio on Sunday, it's all about money, should he not be taking a pay-cut to save a few quid and offset it against the interest he has started to clock up on multi-million loans.

[osarusan]

Any chance this can be made into a banner?

[TheBoss]

What about this one instead

1647

LOL

[Charlie Darwin]

An annual friendly in Thomond Park of this nature (which I'd imagine was the plan) would have seen Limerick FC right for the forseeable future, up around the top six to eight clubs in the country which is probably where it belongs.

Instead it's back to depending on the generosity of a backer in Pat O'Sullivan*, who has done an incredible amount of good work on the ground in Limerick since he took over. Above all else in this farce, Pat O'Sullivan deserved better from the FAI.

*Until the end of the year when we are uncerimoniously dumped out of football for the benefit of Delaneys ego - Again.
How likely is an annual friendly going to be though? It would be great if fixtures like this became a common occurrence, but if the Limerick-Barca fixture was anything of a success you can guarantee the competition for friendlies next year will be even hotter and the FAI will do everything in their power to make them happen in Dublin.


Wait, did Darwin just argue that a once off injection of cash would do nothing for a club?

Seriously?
No.


Are you serious? Not-for-profit by design by not in practice.
The Airtricity League runs at a loss and the FAI makes up the shortfall with its own resources.


The reason why the FAI are in such a financial mess is because John Delaney has made a bags of the stadium financing.

To start, there's the preposterous and greedy pricing of 10-year-tkts (that he now is turning to the very grassroots you mention to buy).I've no argument with this.


They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment.This sounds completely untrue.


If, as he admitted on RTE radio on Sunday, it's all about money, should he not be taking a pay-cut to save a few quid and offset it against the interest he has started to clock up on multi-million loans.Of course he should.

[Quadruple1928]

The Airtricity League runs at a loss and the FAI makes up the shortfall with its own resources


Id say if you looked at the bigger picture you would see the FAI benefits more than LOI clubs. The likes of Kevin Doyle don't just fall out of the sky, clubs spent money on coaching him. Players like Keith Fahey and Brian Murphy, would be lost to the game if it weren't for LOI clubs, Murphy has said it himself. Plenty of ex LOI players in the Irish squad, so its not like the FAI don't get anything out of it.

A few of the clubs were around well before the FAI, indeed it was the clubs that set them up cause of the treatment from the IFA, similar to what the FAI do now.

[Macy]

Now this whole mess could only happen in one place, Limerick. As there's no other suitable stadium for marquee teams to visit with attendance over 15/20k. So I guess it won't effect most clubs.
RDS is, or can, go to 20,000 now. Was that (give or take a couple of hundred) for the Clermont game. As someone else said, that's maybe the venue they had in mind and that may be where the confusion over the capacity figure (as the RDS only recently increased). What 3rd party paid big money for a stadium sponsorship in Dublin 4?


However this would rule out rugby too eg another Munster v All Blacks etc and the IRFU would never agree to that.
Could it be that the contract is a number of high profile games - the IRFU have 6 nations, autumn internationals, probably the inter pro's v Ulster and Munster, plus AIL Finals and the Cup. Also the IRFU is in a much stronger position, as I don't recall hearing they've totally bombed on sales of premium tickets...

[Alf Honn]

They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment. This sounds completely untrue.

----

You're right, it does sound untrue but, sadly, you are incorrect.

A fascinating article in the Sunday Times Business section at the weekend outlined the dire state of the FAI finances. Not available on-line but there's a similar story in today's Indo headlined the 'Real cost of the Aviva stadium': http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/the-real-cost-of-the-aviva-stadium-2184726.html

Here's an extract from the Sunday Times:

"NSL, formerly the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, sold their 10-yr naming rights to Aviva for 40 mill but securitised them to clients NCB Stockbrokers for 25mill to get cash up front."

Yes, that's a hit of 15mill. And they're denying Limerick the chance of making a paltry 100k to keep them afloat!

[Macy]

The IRFU are apparently concerned the ERC could use Croke Park for big Heineken games such as semi finals and final.
There appears to be little opposition left in the GAA now to the renting out of Croke Park and many in the GAA would see it as a coup (not to mind the
big revenue) to stage a big rugby or football game with the Aviva empty.
Whatever about the final, I think the home team control HC semi's, and presumably Leinster or Munster wouldn't go against the IRFU, and I think it's the union that bids for the finals rather than the stadium. I actually think it would be the same for the Champions League or Europa League finals, with the home FA bidding rather than a standalone stadium. Also, it's a different case anyway with the IRFU as they do have direct control of the branches and centrally contract the top Irish players - they pony up for the right to control the teams, players etc.

[pineapple stu]

Are Limerick still looking at legal action now the game's off?

[Jofspring]

Are Limerick still looking at legal action now the game's off?

Heard something about continuing with the appeal out of principal but i wouldn't know myself about the legal part.

[joeSoap]

Are Limerick still looking at legal action now the game's off? I would very much hope so. Compensation from the FAI to the tune of whatever the projected profit would have been will suffice. Provided the club can provide the heads of agreement with Barcelona they say they have, the multitude of lies and contradictions displayed by Delaney in this matter would not stand up in court. He also would be obliged to prove the existence of this 'third party'. What the FAI have done here is despotic, dictatorial and disgusting and they must be brought to task over it legally, or else all clubs with ambition will suffer.

[Dodge]

No court case will happen

Ye olde particiaption agreement will see to that. OK Limerick might win, but they won't get a license, so whats the point?

[Straightstory]

I would very much hope so. Compensation from the FAI to the tune of whatever the projected profit would have been will suffice. Provided the club can provide the heads of agreement with Barcelona they say they have, the multitude of lies and contradictions displayed by Delaney in this matter would not stand up in court. He also would be obliged to prove the existence of this 'third party'. What the FAI have done here is despotic, dictatorial and disgusting and they must be brought to task over it legally, or else all clubs with ambition will suffer.
Completely, completely, completely agree.

[OneRedArmy]

They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment. This sounds completely untrue.

----

You're right, it does sound untrue but, sadly, you are incorrect.

A fascinating article in the Sunday Times Business section at the weekend outlined the dire state of the FAI finances. Not available on-line but there's a similar story in today's Indo headlined the 'Real cost of the Aviva stadium': http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/the-real-cost-of-the-aviva-stadium-2184726.html

Here's an extract from the Sunday Times:

"NSL, formerly the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, sold their 10-yr naming rights to Aviva for 40 mill but securitised them to clients NCB Stockbrokers for 25mill to get cash up front."

Yes, that's a hit of 15mill. And they're denying Limerick the chance of making a paltry 100k to keep them afloat!Err......... its not a "hit". Its called Net Present Value.

Assuming the €40 million is paid evenly at €4m a year (I've no idea whether this is the case or not), then securitising the cash flows for €25m gives an annual discount rate of over 9%, which does seems on the high side, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

But to describe it as "losing €15m" is completely incorrect. If you want to prove, this, go up to someone on the street, tell them you'll pay them 10 euro a year for the next ten years, and then ask them for €100 now and see how far you get....

[Dodge]

The ERC also control the semi finals. they are located in the home country of the team drawn at home.

You are correct re a Union but the ERC might decide not to use a 50,000 seater stadium and let the IRFU decide then whether or not to apply with CP.

YOu sure about that? Seems out that anyone but Biarritz would choose to play their home semi final in Spain?

[endabob1]

The home club must nominate what ever stadium they want to use for the semi-final, there is a minimum capacity which I think would mean Thomond is fine for a semi. Open to correction though

[Jofspring]

YOu sure about that? Seems out that anyone but Biarritz would choose to play their home semi final in Spain?

Yes the ERC decide where the semi-finals are held. Last season Munster had drawn a home country semi-final. The match was against Leinster and was held in Croke Park so you could say Munster didn't have a home semi-final, just home country advantage whch in that case was no advantage at all. Biarritz chose the nearest stadium with a big capacity, it just happened to be in Spain. They don't consider themselves French per say anyway they consider themselves Basque.

[Jofspring]

The home club must nominate what ever stadium they want to use for the semi-final, there is a minimum capacity which I think would mean Thomond is fine for a semi. Open to correction though

The team that draws home country advantage must have the semi-final venue at least 60km (open to correction there) away from their home ground.

[Dodge]

Oh I realise that, but who decided where it was. My guess is Biarritz. gspain thinks the ERC had final say

[endabob1]

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/31_264.php

It's the ERC, semi's are "nominally" Neutral so Leinster could play a semi at aviva but Munster would probably have to too.