Bohs SCP discussion

[marinobohs]

It is my understanding that they have. Which means that bohs, who were budgeting to win all three domestic trophies, will have to readjust down at least €250,000, or 5k a week on wages.

Ouch.
Your estimate of our budget process is, like most other things you "predicted" about Bohs utter rubbish. Not even worth a serious reply given how wide of the mark it is. your sources are, as before, completely wrong (you should be familiar with that by now :D)

[osarusan]

As a matter of interest how much of a drop off in crowds are Dundalk (novelty of promotion) and shams (novelty of new play pen) allowing for in budget for next year ?

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that Shamrock Rovers' budget last season didn't include gate receipts. I could be mistaken though.

[de bowez]

It is my understanding that they have. Which means that bohs, who were budgeting to win all three domestic trophies, will have to readjust down at least €250,000, or 5k a week on wages.

Ouch.

That could not be more wrong.

[de bowez]

I'm not you know....

Bohs stated that they budget for winning the league as recently as this week. The FAI have closed that practice. So how exactly does this not mean you have to cut your preliminary budget?

Not expecting any sort of rational answer by the way.

You are you know, Bohs are not budgeting on winning the treble or even the league for that matter.

[marinobohs]

Even if our gats fall by one third, they are still more than twice yours. So I'm not quite sure why you use that as a stick to beat us with.

As for the substance to your point that its all about silverware, regardless of the critical damage it has done to your finances, have you ever heard of Shelbourne?

or indeed the club formerly known as Shamrock Rovers :D.

[pineapple stu]

mb - you're free to answer the questions posed, or to ignore them and move off to another thread, but give it a break with trying to deflect from the topic people are trying to discuss. You've been warned about this God knows how many times now.

[marinobohs]

I'm not you know....

Bohs stated that they budget for winning the league as recently as this week. The FAI have closed that practice. So how exactly does this not mean you have to cut your preliminary budget?

Not expecting any sort of rational answer by the way.

Once again, bohs budget is not predicated on winning the League 2010. rational enough for you ?
You have been told this several times so if you wish to keep spouting made up rubbish to the contrary then fine but please don't seek "rational" answers to irrational claims.

[wexfordned]

Well I know that, because the FAI told you you couldn't....

Would you ever grow up. Most of your childish posts on here about Bohs are ridiculous.

If bohs had attempted to submit a budget based on them winning all domestic trophies it would have been in all the papers by now & Rovers fans (especialy you) would have posted links to every site you could find on the internet

The 08 budget was ridiculous & FAI should never have allowed bohs to submit a budget based on winning the league. However this year's budget is not based on winning the league & rightly so.

At this stage the thread should be moved to the Shamrock's section as their fans are posting more on this thread than anybody else.

[marinobohs]

mb - you're free to answer the questions posed, or to ignore them and move off to another thread, but give it a break with trying to deflect from the topic people are trying to discuss. You've been warned about this God knows how many times now.

Quoting Shelbourne = OK. Quoting Shams = not OK. Interesting. :confused:

[topia]

Quoting Shelbourne = OK. Quoting Shams = not OK. Interesting. :confused:


Seemingly so. MB has done has done nothing but deny claims in this thread and once again stu you seem to be letting your bias get in the way.

[marinobohs]

Seemingly so. MB has done has done nothing but deny claims in this thread and once again stu you seem to be letting your bias get in the way.

Anyway, the issues raised (including some ridiculous claims) have been answered as best we can. Sooner the better the meeting with the FAI goes ahead and we can put an end to the issue(s) once and for all.

[pineapple stu]

Didn't really expect you to understand, tbh.

Quoting Shels = genuine attempt to show where Bohs are headed.

Quoting Rovers = attempt to slag another club just to deflect from the issue at hand. And it's hilarious that ye still continue to liken yourselves to Rovers' former board.

[marinobohs]

Didn't really expect you to understand, tbh.

Quoting Shels = genuine attempt to show where Bohs are headed.

Quoting Rovers = attempt to slag another club just to deflect from the issue at hand. And it's hilarious that ye still continue to liken yourselves to Rovers' former board.

In the eye of the beholder (and that is generous) - if you believe that poster has a genuine concern in the interest of Bohemian FC then I have some magic beans you might be interested in...;)
I have tried to answer questions rasied here, some of which were ridiculous, but cant remember likening Bohs to shams (05 or any other vintage) Could be accused of likening Shels to Shams maybe ?

[SkStu]

the Bohs situation is nothing like Shels or Shamrock Rovers in the past. Ive said it before and i stand by that. There is one massive difference.

And to be honest, i think its fair game that any poster, be they Shels, Rovers, Derry, Cork, Sligo or whoever that tries to sully our name should be reminded of their not so pristine recent past. Point scoring and counter accusations happen in all walks of life and, if it is good enough for Bohs to be slated, then i dont see why this messageboard should be any different.

[pineapple stu]

Actually, it's one of the basic laws of the forum that you don't do that, primarily because it's a pretty pathetic defence. It's basically the internet equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?", and says more about the mentality of the Bohs fans resorting to that tactic than anything else.

[SkStu]

no, it says more about how common these problems are in the league that we are able to resort to such remarks and how our situation is not unique than it does about the mentality of Bohs fans.

You might be okay with bending over and taking it when people criticise UCD but i am glad that other Bohs posters here are a bit more willing to fight fire with fire.

If nothing else, based on BYTCRP's posts, can we change the title to Bohs SCP Rumours?

[SkStu]

if you wont change the title, can you tell me how the following is acceptable?


It is my understanding that they have. Which means that bohs, who were budgeting to win all three domestic trophies, will have to readjust down at least €250,000, or 5k a week on wages.

Ouch.

[Leejo]

BYCTWD can you actually back up anything you say? Or is everything you say just unfounded claims that you like to make up (as someone said on here before throw enough mud and it will start to stick), I'm looking specifically at your claims that Bohs submitted a budget to include prize money for winning the treble? How many of your posts on here are about Bohs? It really is borderline obsession at this stage.

Most fans will know more about their own budget than the fans of another team will so stop acting like you know everything and anything about us, it's pathetic at this stage.

Most if not all Bohs fans/members know about their clubs budget and what they are budgeting for more than you do so give it a rest and stop coming up with such tripe such as 'Bohs are budgeting for winning 3 trophies', when it is abundantly clear to everyone that, that is not true.

Our lowest point was/will still be a hell of a lot higher than yours was mate.

This must kill you but like it or not the Bohs board are getting their house in order and we're here for the long term.

[pineapple stu]

I am glad that other Bohs posters here are a bit more willing to fight fire with fire.
You're doing nothing of the sort. You're fighting rumours with petty slaggings, and it doesn't reflect well on yez.


This must kill you but like it or not the Bohs board are getting their house in order
Given you've just lost E1.9m last year - as it seems from the Daily Mail article - can you back up that comment? A lot of Bohs fans fall back on to it, and it sounds like it's empty rhetoric to be honest.

[Dalymountrower]

mb - you're free to answer the questions posed, or to ignore them and move off to another thread, but give it a break with trying to deflect from the topic people are trying to discuss. You've been warned about this God knows how many times now.


"The topic people are trying to discuss" ....lol. Any amount of speculative nonsense has been allowed by you in this thread plus adding your own for good measure. Newspaper aricles have been quoted as gospel when it has suited and ignored or dimissed when it has not. And then you try and shoot someone down for making the valid comparison between the out of control spending in Shels and that of a previous incarnation of Shamrock Rovers? Get a grip.

I`ve no problem with BTCWD ranting on about Bohs in an Old Testament manner. When the facts are available I would be confident that his predictions will be as accurate as you own erroneous claim that Liam Carroll was suing Bohs. I would have equally no problem with you holding forth on the rumours. I do have a difficulty though with you entering the ring as a combative contestant and also acting as referee.

[PartySaint]

BYCTWD can you actually back up anything you say? Or is everything you say just unfounded claims that you like to make up (as someone said on here before throw enough mud and it will start to stick), I'm looking specifically at your claims that Bohs submitted a budget to include prize money for winning the treble? How many of your posts on here are about Bohs? It really is borderline obsession at this stage.

Most fans will know more about their own budget than the fans of another team will so stop acting like you know everything and anything about us, it's pathetic at this stage.

Most if not all Bohs fans/members know about their clubs budget and what they are budgeting for more than you do so give it a rest and stop coming up with such tripe such as 'Bohs are budgeting for winning 3 trophies', when it is abundantly clear to everyone that, that is not true.

Our lowest point was/will still be a hell of a lot higher than yours was mate.

This must kill you but like it or not the Bohs board are getting their house in order and we're here for the long term.

But he is a Rovers fan so that automatically means he knows everything about every other teams finances ESPECIALLY Bohs, Did you not know the last 20 Years have just been a blip for Rovers they will now dominate for the next 100 years and any club that has the cheek to beat them to a trophy must be cheating

[SkStu]

You're doing nothing of the sort. You're fighting rumours with petty slaggings, and it doesn't reflect well on yez.

.

your opinion. Though id like to know why rumours are a more acceptable weapon than petty slaggings?

Now, could you answer my question on BYTCWD's post?

[pineapple stu]

your opinion. Though id like to know why rumours are a more acceptable weapon than petty slaggings?
Obviously it's my opinion. Although it was commented on by other fans in the "Rovers report Bohs" thread in November.

Rumours are common in this league; it's a small league, people hear things. If the mods deleted everything that didn't have an internet link, there'd be very little left. People are free to make their own minds up as to the validitity or otherwise of the rumours. Obvious trolling rumours are obviously deleted, but I don't see any. Petty slaggings are puerile, unnecessary and lead to flame wars.

There are a lot of questions that need answering at Bohs, and I've no problems with letting people try discuss them. If they're wrong, refute them. Reverting to "I know you are, but what am I?" isn't wanted here.


Now, could you answer my question on BYTCWD's post?
Yep. I don't think it's necessary. I think people can make up their own minds as to whether this thread is rumour or fact from the posts and the sources.

[Réiteoir]

But he is a Rovers fan so that automatically means he knows everything about every other teams finances ESPECIALLY Bohs, Did you not know the last 20 Years have just been a blip for Rovers they will now dominate for the next 100 years and any club that has the cheek to beat them to a trophy must be cheating

The League of Ireland equivalent of the Thousand Year Reich?

[LukeO]

You're doing nothing of the sort. You're fighting rumours with petty slaggings, and it doesn't reflect well on yez.


Given you've just lost E1.9m last year - as it seems from the Daily Mail article - can you back up that comment? A lot of Bohs fans fall back on to it, and it sounds like it's empty rhetoric to be honest.

I think the figures mentioned in the Mail refer to 2008, it just isn't worded very well. I would hope our 2009 losses weren't as high as that. I would be surprised if they were but you'd never know with Bohs. But if they were, in fairness, the 2009 contracts were handed out prior to five new directors being elected/co-opted to the board and five of the previous regime being voted out/resigning. There were cuts last year, and no new signing was on more than €1000 a week and the 2009 budget will be cut by 42%.

[SkStu]

Stu, how is his post not an "obvious trolling rumour"? Its based on nothing but his own imagination and yet we are expected to argue against it or prove it is not true?

Thats a ridiculous situation for us to be in.

[marinobohs]

Stu, how is his post not an "obvious trolling rumour"? Its based on nothing but his own imagination and yet we are expected to argue against it or prove it is not true?

Thats a ridiculous situation for us to be in.

pretty much the same as most of his posts on any thread, which seem to be almost exclusively about Bohs ! oh, I was forgetting his obvious concern about our club :rolleyes:

[marinobohs]

Hold up. We KNOW you included prizemoney for winning the 09 league in the 2009 budget and this was accepted by the FAI.

We KNOW that there was media reporting that you planned on doing the same for 2010.

I happen to be aware that the FAI are not allowing this practice for 2010 - for right or wrong.

Taking these factors above, it is safe to assume that your original budget plan due this week but delayed will have to be amended accordingly. I happen to believe that we are talking in the region of a €250,000 cut for 2010 when this adjustment is made. €5k a week, which is sore in anyones book.

Nothing that has been said by any Bohs fan so far counters that.

Not when the issue has been explained (several times) to the contrary. Fact V your imagination, sorry assumtions, and hardly for the first time.:D

[pineapple stu]

I think the figures mentioned in the Mail refer to 2008, it just isn't worded very well.
The article noted that the level of losses across the league were similar to 2008, and commented how remarkable that was given that we were now in a recession. You didn't lose E1.9m in 2008 either. They do seem to be for 2009.

[Celdrog]

I think the figures mentioned in the Mail refer to 2008, it just isn't worded very well

Initial estimates, based on club management accounts submitted to the FAI, show that total losses for all clubs in the league are roughly €2.7m, the same figure as for 2008

Looks like 2009 alright

[Leejo]

Hold up. We KNOW you included prizemoney for winning the 09 league in the 2009 budget and this was accepted by the FAI.

We KNOW that there was media reporting that you planned on doing the same for 2010.


But there's not, how do you not get that? No media has seen our projected budget, or anyones projected budget for that matter. Any report that has been written about Bohs says 'prize money' nowhere apart from your posts does it mention anything about prize money from winning the legaue, that prize money could be the prize money for finishing last for all you know. Stop putting spins on stories to suit yourself.

Have you dropped your ridicolus claim that we're budgeting for winning the 2 domestic trophies as well yet? Haven't heard you talk about that for a while...

[wexfordned]

Hold up. We KNOW you included prizemoney for winning the 09 league in the 2009 budget and this was accepted by the FAI.

We KNOW that there was media reporting that you planned on doing the same for 2010.

I happen to be aware that the FAI are not allowing this practice for 2010 - for right or wrong.

Taking these factors above, it is safe to assume that your original budget plan due this week but delayed will have to be amended accordingly. I happen to believe that we are talking in the region of a €250,000 cut for 2010 when this adjustment is made. €5k a week, which is sore in anyones book.

Nothing that has been said by any Bohs fan so far counters that.

So this means we are budgeting to win everything this season. :confused:

As SK STU points out the only way we can deny your idiotic rumours from la la land is by posting the actual budget on this site.

In fact, as you seem to know all the important figures why don't you just post a summary of the budget on this site for eveyone to exam,criticise etc. seeing as they are doing that anyway.

[osarusan]

There are a lot of questions that need answering at Bohs, and I've no problems with letting people try discuss them. If they're wrong, refute them.

Would you not agree that it is futile to discuss the issue with posters whose argument is that if Bohs are found to have broken the SCP, they (the posters) were right all along, but if Bohs are found to be inside the SCP, that's because the FAI have decided not to do anything about it.

How do you advise Bohs fans to "refute" this argument?

As somebody has pointed out, the only way for Bohs fans to refute arguments is to publish the actual accounts on this site, which would be terrible practice. You're letting rumour after rumour build up and telling Bohs fans to refute them, when there is no way to do so except publish the accounts. And even then, some of the posters whose arguments are to be refuted have said they aren't willing to believe that Bohs got under 65% anyway.

[pineapple stu]

In fairness -

(a) If we were stop all such "insider" threads or comments, you'd close half of foot.ie. I've noted my comments on that already. I've posted more than my fair share of hearsay over the years, most of which has turned out to be fact, and so I'm not particulary inclined to stop others doing so simply because it's rumour.
(b) A fair bit of what's been put out is being backed up by stuff in the media. The comments about Bohs looking to include prize money were in the media, I'm pretty sure (there was a thread here a couple of days ago). Ditto the stuff about Fenlon being owed bonuses, and then suddenly having a water tight contact; you can add two and two together and see what the difference is there. A lot of the stuff being mentioned is covered under that. You can check BYCTWD's list of infractions, and you'll find some for unsubstantiated allegations and trolling, so it's not like he's being given carte blanche.

I think Bohs fans shouldn't refute the points by "I know you are, but what am I?", which is what I picked mb up on, and which SkStu defended him doing, although that's technically not the question you asked. Getting into personal opinion, I don't think Bohs fans know that much about what's going on at Dalymount - which really doesn't help refutation - and I agree with a lot of the criticisms levelled at them (the prime example being that when their accounts were leaked last year, the issue worrying them on their forum wasn't how much they'd lost, but who leaked them). I agree that colours my moderation. However, that's why there's a report function, an ignore list, two other moderators and two supermods here.

[LukeO]

The article noted that the level of losses across the league were similar to 2008, and commented how remarkable that was given that we were now in a recession. You didn't lose E1.9m in 2008 either. They do seem to be for 2009.

I'm not so sure about that. Our operating loss in 2008 was €1.9m. Obviously the money received from Danniger in 2008 brought the actual loss down to around €1m.


... based on club management accounts submitted to the FAI, show that total losses for all clubs in the league are roughly €2.7m, the same figure as for 2008, which is remarkable considering the depth of the recession last year.

Moreover, two Premier Division clubs, neither of whom are Cork City, were responsible for 90 per cent of those losses (one, a prominent Premier Division club, accounted for over 70 per cent of the losses alone).

Referring to 'those' losses immediately after talking about 2008's figures would suggest he's talking about them and not the figures for 2009.


Hold up. We KNOW you included prizemoney for winning the 09 league in the 2009 budget and this was accepted by the FAI.

We KNOW that there was media reporting that you planned on doing the same for 2010.

I happen to be aware that the FAI are not allowing this practice for 2010 - for right or wrong.

We are not budgeting to win the league this year.

[SkStu]

I think Bohs fans shouldn't refute the points by "I know you are, but what am I?", which is what I picked mb up on, and which SkStu defended him doing, although that's technically not the question you asked. Getting into personal opinion, I don't think Bohs fans know that much about what's going on at Dalymount - which really doesn't help refutation - and I agree with a lot of the criticisms levelled at them (the prime example being that when their accounts were leaked last year, the issue worrying them on their forum wasn't how much they'd lost, but who leaked them). I agree that colours my moderation. However, that's why there's a report function, an ignore list, two other moderators and two supermods here.

Stu, FFS, there is a whole members forum on the Bohs messageboard where all this stuff is discussed. Just because we try to keep (most of) it out of the public forum, it doesnt mean that these questions arent being asked or the wrong type of questions are being asked. Its just being done away from lurking eyes.

Plenty of posters here do refute allegations based on what they know - some are members, some arent - but you choose to not believe what is being said or else the goalposts get changed. Its pretty much pointless engaging in any more debate here as it is a no-win situation for Bohs fans and as such descends into what you call Bohs fans petty point scoring. Look at every argument on this and other issues... they generally follow this format.

- poster makes accusation against Bohs
- Bohs fan attempts to clarify (not always convincingly, granted)
- Rovers fans and you tell us we dont know what we're talking about and that they heard this and that, all of which is true and we should be refuting
- Bohs fans attempt to clarify
- shouted down with cries of bullsh!t and more accusations based on rumours
- argument descends into "pettiness".

Repeat.

Why should we bother?

[pineapple stu]

From my viewpoint, I'm seeing far more of 'Bohs fan engages in "I know you are, but what am I?"' than 'Bohs fans attempt to clarify'. And all I tend to point out is to give the former a rest and concentrate on the latter.

If BYCTWD annoys you so much, put him on your ignore list. Simple.

[LukeO]

From my viewpoint, I'm seeing far more of 'Bohs fan engages in "I know you are, but what am I?"' than 'Bohs fans attempt to clarify'. And all I tend to point out is to give the former a rest and concentrate on the latter.

I've attempted to clarify yet again in the simplest of terms on the previous page.

[osarusan]

We are not budgeting to win the league this year.
To clarify further, were you budgeting (or planning to budget) on winning the league and / or other domestic competitions until the FAI changed the rules on prize money in budgets (as I've been lead to believe they did)?

If the answer is yes, will that mean you have to revise your budget, and to what extent?

[wexfordned]

I've attempted to clarify yet again in the simplest of terms on the previous page.

Every bohs fan on this has clearly stated winning the league will not be a part of the budget (never mind winning everything). BYW... is one thing, but when a moderator refuse to accept this point where do you go from there.

It should be pointed out that Bohs have yet to present their budget to FAI so we cannot link this fact to any story on the web except to say it was clearly stated by the new board at member meetings (in the middle of last season before the FAI said anything) that we would not be doing this.

(Waits for BW..... to ridicule bohs fans,members,board etc.)

[pineapple stu]

I've attempted to clarify yet again in the simplest of terms on the previous page.
And you'll notice I didn't ask you to stop trying to go off topic.

(Although, FWIW, I don't agree with your grammatical analysis. I think it is 2009 figures that're being talked about)

[wexfordned]

Now why did it take 285 posts for this vital piece of information from your POV to come to light.... :rolleyes:

Because it's none of Shamrock's or any other clubs business what is discussed at these meetings.

[de bowez]

To clarify further, were you budgeting (or planning to budget) on winning the league and / or other domestic competitions until the FAI changed the rules on prize money in budgets (as I've been lead to believe they did)?

If the answer is yes, will that mean you have to revise your budget, and to what extent?

NO. As Luke says on the previous page, 45% cut and no trophies has been the aim for months now and its been hinted at plenty of times without figures being mentioned.

[RoversHead]

Because it's none of Shamrock's or any other clubs business what is discussed at these meetings.Dont know if thats true in reality, previos leakings of Bohs accounts and subsequent analysis of those accounts by not just Rovers fans but journalists have made everthing about the running of that clubs affairs a public intrest story .Bohs asking for a postponment of mondays meeting in the wake of an 11th hour six figure payment to Fenlon also fuels speculation.It does get a bit tabloid at times but its news all the same and when Bohs are awarded the licence and get a clean bill of health it will no longer be anything to speculate about,but till then it will go on.

[de bowez]

Theres just no tabloid or Rovers forum story in "Bohs aim to break even shocker".

[SkStu]

Dont know if thats true in reality, previos leakings of Bohs accounts and subsequent analysis of those accounts by not just Rovers fans but journalists have made everthing about the running of that clubs affairs a public intrest story .Bohs asking for a postponment of mondays meeting in the wake of an 11th hour six figure payment to Fenlon also fuels speculation.It does get a bit tabloid at times but its news all the same and when Bohs are awarded the licence and get a clean bill of health it will no longer be anything to speculate about,but till then it will go on.

no RH, the problem is it will be speculated on even if we do get a license. Thats where my issue lies. I dont think any club gets a clean bill of health in this league. But even if we do get a license we will be expected to answer questions here from the usual suspects.

And it wasnt a six figure sum to Fenlon. The amount we paid is in the public domain, i suggest you go and find it and educate yourself properly if youre so interested in Bohs finances.

But im sure you lot will just carry on with your half-truths, rumous and innuendo.

[LukeO]

(Although, FWIW, I don't agree with your grammatical analysis. I think it is 2009 figures that're being talked about)

Maybe that's why you're an accountant. ;)

I would also be surprised if journalists had access to such detailed breakdowns of clubs' 2009 accounts at this early stage seeing as they were only submitted to the FAI on Nov 30? I could be wrong though.


To clarify further, were you budgeting (or planning to budget) on winning the league and / or other domestic competitions until the FAI changed the rules on prize money in budgets (as I've been lead to believe they did)?

If the answer is yes, will that mean you have to revise your budget, and to what extent?

Well the answer is no, so no.

[EnglishSource]

(Although, FWIW, I don't agree with your grammatical analysis. I think it is 2009 figures that're being talked about)

I think he may be right. The follow up sentence about clubs going in on a healthier position this year, suggests that those figues are from the previous year.

Plus, theres no way even the FAI would expect anyone to swallow that boez could be under the SCP while still losing 2 million quid.

[RoversHead]

no RH, the problem is it will be speculated on even if we do get a license. Thats where my issue lies. I dont think any club gets a clean bill of health in this league. But even if we do get a license we will be expected to answer questions here from the usual suspects.

And it wasnt a six figure sum to Fenlon. The amount we paid is in the public domain, i suggest you go and find it and educate yourself properly if youre so interested in Bohs finances.

But im sure you lot will just carry on with your half-truths, rumous and innuendo.Very much intrested in Bohs accounts and still curious at your request to postpone the meeting in light of Pats payoff regardless of the figure. would not be a massive shock to bohs fans if you had lost 1.89mill last season and Luko over playes the new board members ,Gerrys crew still run the show at Dalymount just ask any of the posters on Bohs private forum .

[Ezeikial]

Would you not agree that it is futile to discuss the issue with posters whose argument is that if Bohs are found to have broken the SCP, they (the posters) were right all along, but if Bohs are found to be inside the SCP, that's because the FAI have decided not to do anything about it.


This allegation has been posted several times, but I am unaware of any posters who have actually said what you claim. Can you clarify?