Friendlies Summer 2009

[SunderlandBohs]

The list of graduates is certainly impressive. Includes:
Lionel Messi
Ronnie Ekelund
Giovani dos Santos
Andres Iniesta
Albert Luque
Albert Ferrer
Bojan Krkic
Carles Puyol
Cesc Fabregas
Gerard Pique
Ivan de la Pena
Javi Moreno
Jose Reina
Josep Guardiola
Luis Garcia
]Mikel Arteta
Nayim
Sergio Garcia
Thomas Christiansen
Victor Valdes
Xavi
Forgot Arnua Rieria of Falkirk on that list.

But it would be interest to see Barcelona B play all the same. Could be one to tell the Grand kids.

[seand]

Spoken like someone who was at one of their games in January. ;)

Decent First Division standard; no more.

I was at a Serie C game in Italy last season and thought it was League of Ireland First Division standard... then I was talking to a German fan at a League of Ireland Premier game who thought the standard was equivalent to the sixth tier in Germany. So I think we can agree that the German fifth tier is about the equivalent of Serie A.

[shep]

Is this just restricted to friendlies? We had a League Cup game clash with a Champions' League semi this year and I'm pretty sure midweek league fixtures have been on Champions' League nights as well.

True...we played Rovers on the same night Man U played Porto in 1st leg of champs league.

[pineapple stu]

I was at a Serie C game in Italy last season and thought it was League of Ireland First Division standard... then I was talking to a German fan at a League of Ireland Premier game who thought the standard was equivalent to the sixth tier in Germany. So I think we can agree that the German fifth tier is about the equivalent of Serie A.
I'm probably just bitter or something.

The game will be similar to a game against a Man Utd youths team or Derry's friendly against Celtic last year. I'm not putting Dundalk down because of it, I'm not laughing at you because you thought you were getting Barca and you got Atletic, I'm just putting that fact out there.

[Ezeikial]

I'm probably just bitter or something.


Why confess - much better fun when you try to be taken seriously?

[Black and White]

True...we played Rovers on the same night Man U played Porto in 1st leg of champs league.

True and yet they made us move our hoem games to Friday nights because they "would have been going against UEFA rules that a premier divison game cant clash with European nights"???? WHat the hell are they playing at?

[Ezeikial]

Barcelona Atlètic for Oriel Park



Is it a Barca XI or is it Barca Atletic?




I'm not laughing at you because you thought you were getting Barca and you got Atletic, I'm just putting that fact out there.

Stu, You were told it was Barcelona Atlètic, you then asked which it was, and now your laughing beacuse it is Barcelona Atlètic!!!!!!

Should be interesting to see some of the potential stars of the future

[pineapple stu]

Evidently the word "not" causes confusion in Dundalk. Also, the Dundalk website calls it a Barca XI, and again, "XI" is clearly a different word to "Atletic".

However, I will go and laugh at posts like this on your forum -


The Barca B team would give any team in the english top flight a run for their money

Always amazes me how there's hardly a single fan out there who can take any sort of non-positive comments about their team without resorting to the kind of childish nonsense you've been posting. Sure I've only seen the team play, and Longfordian has only seen players from the same division on trial at his club; what would we know?

[Ezeikial]

Always amazes me how there's hardly a single fan out there who can take any sort of non-positive comments about their team without resorting to the kind of childish nonsense you've been posting. Sure I've only seen the team play, and Longfordian has only seen players from the same division on trial at his club; what would we know?

Foolishly perhaps, but I had not realised that you were making "non-positive" comments about Dundalk - I understood that you pontificated that FC Barcelona Atlètic are "rubbish" and of a similar standard to the graveyard division.

You are entitled to your opinion, dubious as it may be considering the consistent conveyor belt of talent to come though Barcelona Atlètic.

Eamon Dunphy clearly has a rival as an "expert" on Spanish football, but please dont get so offended when the silliness (sorry, non-sensibleness) of your previous posts are pointed out!

[pineapple stu]

The silliness/non-sensibleness of my posts has been pointed out?!

I've seen them play, FFS. They were poor, and laboured to beat a semi-pro side (Benidorm). What are your credentials for refuting that? A few players who don't play for them any more? I hear Crewe are excellent; they once had Danny Murphy, Rob Jones, David Platt, Neil Lennon, Bruce Grobbelaar and Robbie Savage play for them, and they've a great reputation for developing youth players. :rolleyes:

[shep]

I hear Crewe are excellent; they once had Danny Murphy, Rob Jones, David Platt, Neil Lennon, Bruce Grobbelaar and Robbie Savage play for them, and they've a great reputation for developing youth players. :rolleyes:

You forgot "Super" Dean Ashton;)

[Black and White]

The silliness/non-sensibleness of my posts has been pointed out?!

I've seen them play, FFS. They were poor, and laboured to beat a semi-pro side (Benidorm). What are your credentials for refuting that? A few players who don't play for them any more? I hear Crewe are excellent; they once had Danny Murphy, Rob Jones, David Platt, Neil Lennon, Bruce Grobbelaar and Robbie Savage play for them, and they've a great reputation for developing youth players. :rolleyes:

You left out Dean Ashton and didnt Carragher have a stint there?

[pineapple stu]

I left out lots of players. That's just how good Crewe are.

(Though no joy with Carragher on wiki; one-club man apparently)

[SunderlandBohs]

Here lads hope this will clear up a few things about Barce B.

http://www.fcbarcelona.cat/web/english/futbol/futbol_base/futbol_base.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona_B

They are a Spanish version of a League 1 side. Someone like Leyton Orient.

[pineapple stu]

Except there's a much quicker fall off in the Spanish league, so they're probably more like a good non-league team.

Second division crowds in Spain fall to 2000-odd (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/current/aveesp.htm) for some clubs; third division (which is regionalised) would be lower still. Leyton Orient at least manage 4500 (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm). Below 2000, you're really getting into the realms of semi-pro clubs.

[Dodge]

Surely, as a UCD fan who keeps the attendance thread here up to date, you're not suggesting that we should judge the merits of the two leagues based on crowds?

[Ezeikial]

Decent First Division standard; no more.


Except there's a much quicker fall off in the Spanish league, so they're probably more like a good non-league team.


Spanish league has a really quick "fall off" - first division to non-league in 24 hours!

[pineapple stu]

Surely, as a UCD fan who keeps the attendance thread here up to date, you're not suggesting that we should judge the merits of the two leagues based on crowds?
Nope, just pointing out that the division in general probably don't get enough to be fully pro, and then noting from that that the division Barca Atletic came fifth in is only a semi-pro league. (Obviously Barca Atletic are probably pro themselves). But there is a rough correlation between quality and attendances; that doesn't mean that a club like, for example, UCD can't come above their station.

Having been scorned for merely going to watch a team play, I'm now resorting to other ways of backing up my point. I of course await the Dundalk fans' attempt at using evidence to back their points up.


Spanish league has a really quick "fall off" - first division to non-league in 24 hours!
LoI First Division, English non-league. :rolleyes:

[Dodge]

For the record, regardless of quality, its a far more interesting game for me than the majority of friendlies that will be played this year.

[pineapple stu]

Absolutely. I enjoyed watching the game. Just making the point not to expect much.

[SunderlandBohs]

Does it matter if its Barcelona's under 12's girls B team? It's just a friendly like!

[pineapple stu]

Not really, no. Although the Dundalk fans seem very upset for some reason at the notion that they mightn't be getting a team who could compete in the Premiership.

[endabob1]

Looking at their squad on the ever reliable wiki they have a few Spanish under age players in there, might be worth checking out their U21's against England to see if there are any Barca boys playing.

[pineapple stu]

Nope. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_national_under-21_football_team#Current_squad)

[Dodge]

The other thing to note about that Barca B team is that they're usually lads aged 17-20 and playing against fully grown men in their league. So while the overall standard mightn't be great you'll be able to clearly see some quality players. When Pats played a chelsea XI in our pre-seaosn we just about out muscled them but some of their play was terrific.

I think the team that played La Liga games for Barca between clinching the league and the winning the CL saw 7/8 of the reserves make their debut. Obviously players like Busquets were regulars in the reserves last year. With platinum fronting the money, I can't really see a downside to Bohs and Dundalk playing them (presuming Bohs euro games aren't affected)

[Longfordian]

Are platinum definitely fronting the money though?. It was in the Indo a few weeks ago that the Barca reserves were being offered to teams for 30k.

[pineapple stu]

The other thing to note about that Barca B team is that they're usually lads aged 17-20 and playing against fully grown men in their league. So while the overall standard mightn't be great you'll be able to clearly see some quality players.
Fair point alright. They're a young team, but they still looked very ordinary on the day. Can chalk it down to a bad day obviously, but I'd like to think I've seen enough young teams of up and coming players battling physical disadvantages to spot a promising player. :p It was actually their technical play I was most disappointed with and which was most League of Ireland-like.

[Dodge]

Are platinum definitely fronting the money though?. It was in the Indo a few weeks ago that the Barca reserves were being offered to teams for 30k.

Nope, I assumed they would. Fair cop…

30k is a massive outlay.

[Ezeikial]

Six of the squad appear to have already played in La Liga (five of them for FC Barcelona), in addition to two of them making recent Champions League appearences

There also seems to be a host of underage Spainish internationals (from u-17 to u-21), a full Israel international, and Jeffren Suarez who has yet to decide on Venezeula or Spain.


Assulin ST (18) Full and U-21 Israel international €20 million buy out clause
Olazábal GK (19) Spain U-19. Debut for FC Barcelona 2008
Botia DF (20) Spain U-20 and U-21.Debut for FC Barcelona 2009
Mino GK (20) Spain U-21 international
Corcoles DF (24) Spain u-17 international. Champions league debut 2006
Longas MF (24) La Liga debut for Real Zaragoza 2006
Alcantara MF (18) Spain U-17, U-18, U19 international. Debut for FC Barcelona 2008. Winner of the 2008 UEFA European Under-17 Football Championship with Spain
Vazquez MF (22) Debut for FC Barcelona 2008. Champions League 2009
Suarez ST (21) Spainish U-19, U20, U-21 international. Declined Venezuelan international call up in 2007. Scored twice for FC Barcelona in last pre-season. Full La Liga debut 2009

[Longfordian]

Nope, I assumed they would. Fair cop…

30k is a massive outlay.

Not too far off what you'd be paying for some Legends games though by all accounts.

[Ezeikial]

Barca Atletic are probably pro themselves

Your kidding, aren't you?

You think that there is a possibility that they are amateur, or part time pro?

[pineapple stu]

Six of the squad appear to have already played in La Liga (five of them for FC Barcelona), in addition to two of them making recent Champions League appearences

There also seems to be a host of underage Spainish internationals (from u-17 to u-21), a full Israel international, and Jeffren Suarez who has yet to decide on Venezeula or Spain.
You'll find players like that in Ireland too.

[Ezeikial]

Six of the squad appear to have already played in La Liga (five of them for FC Barcelona), in addition to two of them making recent Champions League appearences

There also seems to be a host of underage Spainish internationals (from u-17 to u-21), a full Israel international, and Jeffren Suarez who has yet to decide on Venezeula or Spain.




You'll find players like that in Ireland too.

Are you serious?

Bearing in mind that you say these guys are rubbish and are of first division or non-league standard, please let us know where to find a team in Ireland that has six players who have played in La Liga (or at similar standard) in the last few years, two of whom have played in the Champions League with the outright winners (2006 & 2009).

[Rovers fan]

Does anyone really care how good Barcelona Atletic are?

[Ezeikial]

Does anyone really care how good Barcelona Atletic are?

pineapple stu seems to, but then he nailed his colours to the mast very early (and doesn't seem to like his opinion being questioned)

Barca Atletic are rubbish.

My main aspiration is for a good gate, and secondly to see how potential future Barcelona stars perform

[DRDoc]

No mention whatsoever thats its Barca Athletic here

http://www.argus.ie/sport/soccer/dundalk-get-goahead-to-play-barca-1777395.html?r=RSS

:(:rolleyes:

[Dunny]

No mention whatsoever thats its Barca Athletic here

http://www.argus.ie/sport/soccer/dundalk-get-goahead-to-play-barca-1777395.html?r=RSS

:(:rolleyes:

Oh Jesus who gives a crap, it's a local paper.

Fact is were playing a bunch of guys in Barca jersies, couldn't care if they play donkey basketball just aslong as it raises a bit of money.

[sligoman]

http://www.argus.ie/sport/soccer/dundalk-get-goahead-to-play-barca-1777395.html?r=RSS'Connor's close contacts with the Spanish club played a big part in their decision to head to Co Louth.' :D:D

[Ezeikial]

'Connor's close contacts with the Spanish club played a big part in their decision to head to Co Louth.' :D:D

Did ya not hear that Seanie's good luck card to the Barcelona players inspired them to Champions League victory?:)

[SunderlandBohs]

Away from Barcegate, Charlton have announced friendlies in Ireland between 12-15 July no teams named. It was on Sky Sports News this morning.

Just been on the CAFC website. The teams are Wexford Youths on the 12 July and Bray on the 15 July.

Here's more details
http://www.cafc.co.uk/default.ink

[Black and White]

No mention whatsoever thats its Barca Athletic here

http://www.argus.ie/sport/soccer/dundalk-get-goahead-to-play-barca-1777395.html?r=RSS

:(:rolleyes:

Well Luis Enrique is over the B team and hes taken a bunch of lads over to train for a few days and play us, either way there will be a few players there who where Athletic players last season.

I would also like to point out that the way Madrid and Barca B teams work is that if you play well one year your promoted up to the next team the next year so Im sure there will be a handful of C team players there on trial!

[pineapple stu]

please let us know where to find a team in Ireland that has six players who have played in La Liga (or at similar standard) in the last few years, two of whom have played in the Champions League with the outright winners (2006 & 2009).
Of the lads who played CL, one played for one minute, the other featured in a dead group game they didn't care much about. Doesn't mean much.

A good few LoI players have played in the Premiership or have international caps for Ireland. Colin Healy, Joe Gamble, Jason Gavin, Jason Byrne, Glen Crowe off the top of my head. I've seen enough U-17 internationals play for us to know that it's virtually useless as a means of distinguishing whether a player's any good or not three years later. Allowing players to play for the B team and the senior team means it's easier for a player to play in La Liga; in England, they may look for a lower league team to get regular first-team football, or they might go out on loan for a full season, which precludes the chance of a token La Liga appearance.


pineapple stu seems to, but then he nailed his colours to the mast very early
:rolleyes:

I stated they were rubbish, on the humble basis of having seen them play. You're the one going into hystrionics trying to disprove that, so you're evidently the one who cares whether Dundalk have brought over a team who could compete at Premiership level or who do compete in a semi-pro league.

I think we're going around in circles here. If you get to the stage where you can argue at above the standard of a five year old (tabloid hysterics, twisting my words, clearly not reading my posts), I'll return to you.

[Ash]

Overheard a Longford official giving out at the match last night about Shams
game against Real Madrid.

He reckoned Real Madrid should play a LoI XI, with the profits divided
between all the LoI clubs.

[Ezeikial]

A good few LoI players have played in the Premiership or have international caps for Ireland. Colin Healy, Joe Gamble, Jason Gavin, Jason Byrne, Glen Crowe off the top of my head.

All fine players and a pleasure to watch.

Surely even you can see the inconsistencies in your arguement:
Healy, Gamble, Gavin, Byrne and Crowe are similar players to the Barcelona Atlètic squad, who are rubbish, and are at best LOI first division standard!!!

Does that mean that Jason Byrne, Glen Crowe, Joe Gamble et al are currently dragging down the premier division standards, playing above their level?



I stated they were rubbish, on the humble basis of having seen them play. You're the one going into hystrionics trying to disprove that, so you're evidently the one who cares whether Dundalk have brought over a team who could compete at Premiership level or who do compete in a semi-pro league.

I think we're going around in circles here. If you get to the stage where you can argue at above the standard of a five year old (tabloid hysterics, twisting my words, clearly not reading my posts), I'll return to you.

I really dont know why you are motivated to make such consistent ludicrous statements as you have done in this thread, but it certainly leaves me sceptical about your ability to judge standards.

It's a pity that when your nonsense is challenged you feel compelled to resort to personal petulant whinging.

[pineapple stu]

Surely even you can see the inconsistencies in your arguement:
Healy, Gamble, Gavin, Byrne and Crowe are similar players to the Barcelona Atlètic squad, who are rubbish, and are at best LOI first division standard!!!
No, because Healy and Gavin played 20-40 games, compared to your citing of a lad who played once for Zaragoza five years ago.

However, I am saying that just because someone played in a top league doesn't necessarily mean they're top quality players.

It's amazing how the internet allows people to twist random stats to make it appear like they know more than someone who has first hand experience of a team.

[Poor Student]

Overheard a Longford official giving out at the match last night about Shams
game against Real Madrid.

He reckoned Real Madrid should play a LoI XI, with the profits divided
between all the LoI clubs.

I don't see why. The league is a competitive environment. If Rovers can arrange and pull off a lucrative earner for themselves then they deserve the profits.

[blackholesun]

> Overheard a Longford official giving out at the match last night about Shams game against Real Madrid. He reckoned Real Madrid should play a LoI XI, with the profits divided between all the LoI clubs.

I don't see why. The league is a competitive environment. If Rovers can arrange and pull off a lucrative earner for themselves then they deserve the profits.

Exactly, no different to any friendly any club organises.

With idiots like that involved in clubs its no wonder so many are having problems.

bhs

[Ezeikial]

I should probably let this go at this stage, but I can't help myself - some of the extravagantly dismissive statements make for great entertainment!



.... appear like they know more than someone who has first hand experience of a team.


I'd like to think I've seen enough young teams of up and coming players battling physical disadvantages to spot a promising player.

Of course it would be folly for anyone to pretend they know more then pinapple stu; and also the height of impertinence to even question the guru's assessments or pronouncements!


When I was watching them......The second thing was that there was no-one within a mile of making the step up to the first team.

Perhaps none of the players mentioned previously were playing on the day.....Alberto Botia, Victor Vazquez, Oier Olazabal, Thiago Alcantara, and Jeffren Suarez all played first team for FC Barcelona in 2008 / 2009. Botia and Jeffren Suarez were also called up for Spain u-21 last year, while Victor Vazquez made his Champions League debut in the home defeat to Shakhtar Donetsk last December.
Gai Assulin, the 18 year old Israeli full international with the €20 million contract buy-out clause, made his first team debut 2 years ago.



However, I am saying that just because someone played in a top league doesn't necessarily mean they're top quality players.


Of course not, but that's very different from earlier statements
You have already said
"Barcelona Atletic are rubbish"
"Decent first division standard, no more"
"Wouldn't be out of place on the same pitch" (as UCD, Monaghan, & Mervue)
"More like a good non-league team"
This does not square up with the evidence available.

The development tradition, endorsed by the long list of top quality world-class players who have graduated through Barcelona Atletic, along with the recent first team and international recognition above, suggests that we may be able to see some potential stars of the future shortly in Oriel Park.

If you, pineapple stu, care to grace us with your presence for this game, I'll gladly buy you a pint and the 'chew the cud with you' about the players on view.....

[pineapple stu]

Alas, that would involve going to Dundalk, so I'll pass.

I apologise for thinking that merely watching a team play could actually compensate for the knowledge gleaned from reading the internet and making assumptions from that.

They're a decent team in - importantly - a part-time league (and I fully expect you to misquote that); the expectations of them on the Dundalk forum (and, seemingly, from you) are way over the top. However, you may believe what you want, and sure you'll see them come the game.

I await with boredom your opinions on other stuff you haven't seen, but can find some vaguely relevant info on the internet about.

[Ezeikial]

Alas, that would involve going to Dundalk, so I'll pass.

I apologise for thinking that merely watching a team play could actually compensate for the knowledge gleaned from reading the internet and making assumptions from that.

They're a decent team in - importantly - a part-time league (and I fully expect you to misquote that); the expectations of them on the Dundalk forum (and, seemingly, from you) are way over the top. However, you may believe what you want, and sure you'll see them come the game.

I await with boredom your opinions on other stuff you haven't seen, but can find some vaguely relevant info on the internet about.

Bitter, snide and lacking in any grace