View Full Version : Petition to wind up: Cork City Investment FC Ltd
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Methinks it'll take more than the Ipswich game to clear €400k. Hard to see CCFC getting out of this but they've always found away to avoid the axe so far.
I'd imagine cork are hoping to give as big a lump sum to revenue as possible, and hope they can reach agreement on the rest.
Time for Cork to slash costs though
Hopefully they pull through
pineapple stu
13/07/2009, 3:00 PM
If an agreement isn't reached within the two weeks, a winding up order will be issued
Is it the judge said that?
Longfordian
13/07/2009, 3:01 PM
The Revenue are sick to the back teeth of LOI clubs at this stage Id imagine and Cork in particular. It'll be very hard to get them to agree to any deal that doesn't involve a huge amount paid up front.
The fact that they seem to have no intention of costs so far and haven't paid any tax whatsoever really seems to indicate that if it isn't in 2 weeks they go under it'll be still be soon.
Cork in court this morning. They offered to pay Revenue with profits of upcoming ipswich friendly (didn't realise they had one), but Revenue didn't agree and are pressing ahead with the case to wind them up
Doesn't look good for Cork
Source is a lawyer friend who happened to be in the four courts today
aww, friend, aww lawyer friend.... :D
http://www.comedy.org.uk/images/library/people/180x200/i/inbetweeners_jay.jpg
As posted by my source himself...
Just back from court there lads.
Luckily you had Ms. Justice Laffoy as she was very reluctant to make the winding up order. She said that if an agreement has not been reached with revenue within two weeks she will have no choice but to make the order.
If it had been any other company other than a football club I've no doubt the order would have been made.
I missed the start but was told that the amount owed is 400K and that CCFC Investment Limited's proposal was 65k up front and 20k at fixed dates after that.
Revenue opposed it on the basis that every cheque they've received from Cork in the last month has bounced and that as well as the arrears to the date were proceedings were initiated no PAYE and PRSI payments have been made since.
Judge Laffoy said that this was particularly worrying given that employee's tax payments weren't being made. Coughlan was there to give evidence in relation to the availability of the 65k and to give assurances that it wouldn't bounce but Judge Laffoy declined to hear him and instead gave the extra two weeks.
You lads in FORAS really need to look at purchasing the name and lease because it looks inevitable that the holding company will be liquidated. Revenue are playing hard ball and want the company wound up. I would be very surprised if there was an agreement within the two weeks.
If the club is wound up then Coughlan and any other directors could be in trouble and face proceedings themselves to restrict them as directors. There's a judgment from Mr. Justice Frank Clarke that says that the use of PAYS and PRSI payments for the general running of the company is sufficient in itself to justify restriction as a director.
Schumi
13/07/2009, 3:17 PM
No tax has been paid by Cork since they came out of examinership That's absolutely ridiculous. Why did the examiner sell the club to this Coughlan guy? He seems to have neither the means nor the intention of running the club properly.
pineapple stu
13/07/2009, 3:21 PM
It's common enough for clubs to pay tax annually at the end of the season in fairness.
However, if Revenue were asking for the money and none was paid, it's criminal.
How much was that offer for Healy and Behan?
charliesboots
13/07/2009, 3:22 PM
That's absolutely ridiculous. Why did the examiner sell the club to this Coughlan guy? He seems to have neither the means nor the intention of running the club properly.
Because John Delaney told him too.
I'm not sure its 100% correct to say they haven't paid any tax since the came out of examinership.
It seems that up until the point the petition to wind them up was brought they hadn't paid any tax. They then seem to have made some back payments but their cheques for present payments falling due (PAYE and PRSI) bounced so since the petition they haven't paid any tax.
It's extraordinary what's gone on and it appeared today that revenue have had enough of it.
MariborKev
13/07/2009, 3:25 PM
If only Cork City had a John Hume as their MP. Cork would be out of trouble in no time.
Naw, for that size of debt you'd need Harry Cavan and his ability to pull strokes.
Partizan
13/07/2009, 3:26 PM
Enough of this farce. Its time for FORAS to step in take control of the CCFC from Country Tom. It maybe the only way to save their club but if it means slashing costs and taking the hit of playing First Division or the A Championship, then so be it. But at least they will still have a club.
How can CCFC fans stand by and watch this farce go on. At the way things stand at the moment, they have dodged the hangman for just another 2 weeks.
pineapple stu
13/07/2009, 3:30 PM
FORAS don't have E400k; what can they do? The club isn't going to go into examinership again. Only chances they have of taking control are (a) Coughlan ponies up the full amount and then sods off or (b) FORAS take immediate control of a new entity.
charliesboots
13/07/2009, 3:33 PM
FORAS don't have E400k; what can they do? The club isn't going to go into examinership again. Only chances they have of taking control are (a) Coughlan ponies up the full amount and then sods off or (b) FORAS take immediate control of a new entity.
Or the club is wound up and FORAS purchase the trading name and lease for Turner's Cross from the liquidator.
Because of the restrictions on the lease there won't be many potential buyers.
I'd imagine they could then apply for membership of the league play in the A League next season if needs be.
pineapple stu
13/07/2009, 3:36 PM
That's kind of option (b) though (or at least, it's what I meant)
On the Cork forum, the point was made that they went broke in 1995, but kept their place in the league. You'd lose all existing assets, but if you set up a new company quick enough, it seems, you could buy them again (granted, you'd struggle to buy the players' contracts if you had to offer sensible money) and keep playing in the Premier, maybe with a points deduction. Don't know if that's possible though. Was it mid-season in 1995 when they last went broke, does anyone remember?
The Licensing rules were set up specifically to stop clusb folding, and then re-starting in situ
charliesboots
13/07/2009, 3:41 PM
The Licensing rules were set up specifically to stop clusb folding, and then re-starting in situ
As where the Companies (Amendment) Acts.
I'd be amazed if that happened but you just wouldn't know with Delaney
Blue Lou
13/07/2009, 4:25 PM
It'd be a shame to see CCFC wind-up.
ger121
13/07/2009, 5:25 PM
I know this was posted on here before but what happened to the 500k guarantee that Coghlan had to lodge into an account,to show he had the funds to run the club?
John83
13/07/2009, 5:42 PM
I know this was posted on here before but what happened to the 500k guarantee that Coghlan had to lodge into an account,to show he had the funds to run the club?
He just had to show he had the money. He has never been obliged to put it in.
MariborKev
13/07/2009, 5:48 PM
As where the Companies (Amendment) Acts.
I'd be amazed if that happened but you just wouldn't know with Delaney
Aye,
But if I was any first division club I'm be heading for the courts asap if that transpired.
Martinho II
13/07/2009, 6:05 PM
That's kind of option (b) though (or at least, it's what I meant)
On the Cork forum, the point was made that they went broke in 1995, but kept their place in the league. You'd lose all existing assets, but if you set up a new company quick enough, it seems, you could buy them again (granted, you'd struggle to buy the players' contracts if you had to offer sensible money) and keep playing in the Premier, maybe with a points deduction. Don't know if that's possible though. Was it mid-season in 1995 when they last went broke, does anyone remember?
that sounds right.. werent cork city thrown out of bishopstown around that period of time too?
John83
13/07/2009, 6:06 PM
Aye,
But if I was any first division club I'm be heading for the courts asap if that transpired.
I'd be surprised if a Cork City Mark III (or Cork Evergreens II or Cork Rovers United FC whatever they'd chose to call themselves this time) were plonked into the Premier. The FAI'd get hopped on.
tiktok
13/07/2009, 6:34 PM
Enough of this farce. Its time for FORAS to step in take control of the CCFC from Country Tom.
I wish it was that simple. I'm all for a bloody coup.
On the Cork forum, the point was made that they went broke in 1995, but kept their place in the league. You'd lose all existing assets, but if you set up a new company quick enough, it seems, you could buy them again (granted, you'd struggle to buy the players' contracts if you had to offer sensible money) and keep playing in the Premier, maybe with a points deduction. Don't know if that's possible though. Was it mid-season in 1995 when they last went broke, does anyone remember?
As Dodge said, the Licensing rules were changed to stop clubs pulling strokes like this. You can't change the owners on the club's licence mid-season. The question has been asked of the FAI.
It's a question of whether of not 400k is found.
If it is, and the practices at the club don't alter, it's just buying time, we'll be here again.
If it's not, the only option is as charlieboots pointed out, work with the liquidator to get the club and leases, in that circumstance, at best we'd have a 40pt deduction and the likelkhod is we'd be in the A championship [which, let's face it, we deserve] next season.
At this rate Shamrock Rovers will be league champions with Cork and Bohs relegated.
How many "2 weeks" have Cork been given in the last year???????Its really taking the pi** at this stage.
tiktok
13/07/2009, 10:16 PM
How many "2 weeks" have Cork been given in the last year???????
I'm going to guess 26.
John83
13/07/2009, 10:22 PM
At this rate Shamrock Rovers will be league champions with Cork and Bohs relegated.
How many "2 weeks" have Cork been given in the last year???????Its really taking the pi** at this stage.
I think they got 4 weeks the last time, which was their first court appearance since emerging from examinership.
micls
14/07/2009, 12:41 PM
Bid early, Bid Often:
From the INDO.
COLIN HEALY and Denis Behan may be the first to go as Cork City prepare for a two-week fire sale in the wake of yesterday's court decision, writes NEIL AHERN.
The court was told that during the July transfer window, the club expects to sell players in order to accumulate funds and reduce the wage bill as they were given a fortnight to reach a deal with the Revenue Commission.
The Leesiders last week rejected an offer reportedly worth €100,000 from English League One team Hartlepool for both Healy and Behan, labelling it "insulting".
But given their perilous financial situation, the Rebels are unlikely to be met with lucrative offers for any of their players as they attempt to offload players in the higher wage bracket.
Apart from Healy and Behan, Joe Gamble has regularly attracted interest from clubs across the water and at home but his current knee injury may prove a hindrance for any transfer, while Pat Sullivan is believed to have been the subject of some interest from Shamrock Rovers.
Dan Murray, Danny Murphy, Fahrudin Kuduzovic and Stephen O'Donnell are also players who could be the subject of bids in the next 14 days.
- Neil Ahern
sligoman
14/07/2009, 12:43 PM
The Leesiders last week rejected an offer reportedly worth €100,000 from English League One team Hartlepool for both Healy and Behan, labelling it "insulting".Insulting:eek:...Hartlepool are crazy offering that amount.
Insulting:eek:...Hartlepool are crazy offering that amount.
I dare say they won't be back even matching that. Ridiculous to turn it down and within a week be in the situation they are now.
Insulting:eek:...Hartlepool are crazy offering that amount.
It's more the fact that they ended the offer with "you langer bar stewards" than the amount that made it insulting apparently.
Louth4sam
14/07/2009, 12:57 PM
Dan Murray, Danny Murphy, Fahrudin Kuduzovic and Stephen O'Donnell are also players who could be the subject of bids in the next 14 days.
We made offers for both players in bold pre-season but cork in their wisdom decided to offer longer contracts for more money.
Do you really think there are any clubs in LOI that can afford to match what you are paying your players never mind pay a fee for them?
sligoman
14/07/2009, 1:34 PM
At last some small indication of sanity: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/healy-and-behan-likely-to--leave-in--rebels--fire-sale-1820369.htmlhttp://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1191460&postcount=431
Duggie
14/07/2009, 1:36 PM
The Leesiders last week rejected an offer reportedly worth €100,000 from English League One team Hartlepool for both Healy and Behan, labelling it "insulting".
id go bust before id let them go for that pocket money. hope they told hartlepool where to fcking go.
The Leesiders last week rejected an offer reportedly worth €100,000 from English League One team Hartlepool for both Healy and Behan, labelling it "insulting".
id go bust before id let them go for that pocket money. hope they told hartlepool where to fcking go.
You'll be an LOI director yet with that attitude!
Schumi
14/07/2009, 1:43 PM
id go bust before id let them go for that pocket money. hope they told hartlepool where to fcking go.That seems to be the plan alright.
Longfordian
14/07/2009, 2:19 PM
Surely clubs, especially Englsh ones, will just wait two weeks and see what happens. They could potentially sign them for nothing then, actually wouldn't the same apply to Irish clubs if Cork went bust the players could move outside the window?.
Duggie
14/07/2009, 3:17 PM
Surely clubs, especially Englsh ones, will just wait two weeks and see what happens. They could potentially sign them for nothing then, actually wouldn't the same apply to Irish clubs if Cork went bust the players could move outside the window?.
we bag healy,gamble,behan and faz. :D
ger121
14/07/2009, 3:21 PM
Does any club actually have the money to increase the number of Full-time players in their squad.? Wouldn't say Bohs or Sligo do. Maybe Derry, Pats and Rovers?
Duggie
14/07/2009, 3:25 PM
im sure some clubs could squeeze in one or two. pats should get rid of kenna before they take in any players though :p
Louth4sam
14/07/2009, 3:26 PM
We probably would, but not on the wages they are on at Cork.
ger121
14/07/2009, 3:29 PM
We probably would, but not on the wages they are on at Cork.
Sorry meant to include Dundalk in there as well as you're mostly Full-time as far as I know.
pól-dcfc
14/07/2009, 3:34 PM
Does any club actually have the money to increase the number of Full-time players in their squad.? Wouldn't say Bohs or Sligo do. Maybe Derry, Pats and Rovers?
We definitely don't. We need to beat Riga in order to fully pay our next batch of wages.
Duggie
14/07/2009, 3:38 PM
We probably would, but not on the wages they are on at Cork.
are they on that much ? thought they had to cut down back when they first ran into trouble. how much we talking roughly??
are they on that much ? thought they had to cut down back when they first ran into trouble. how much we talking roughly??
All we know is we made offers and Cork made bigger ones.
sonofstan
14/07/2009, 4:44 PM
€400k is a lot of money, but Cork regularly get crowds of around 4,000 so a ton each, and more from those who can afford it could be raised assuming FORAS then take over the club, sell everyone, and start again properly.
€400k is a lot of money, but Cork regularly get crowds of around 4,000 so a ton each, and more from those who can afford it could be raised assuming FORAS then take over the club, sell everyone, and start again properly.
Thats what i would hope would happen. Just going down to the first division ,or even the A Championship would really benefit the club and allow us the chance start from scratch. Ideallly ,it would be great if the club was run by FORAS should this happen. Just hope first we are still in existance after our next date in the high court. After that,i would'nt care what division we are in.
tiktok
15/07/2009, 11:15 PM
The clear out has begun. Colin Healy and Denis Behan both on their way to Hartlepool.
Fee not disclosed afaik, but can't imagine it's near what the players are worth, given our circumstances. Two players off the wage bill, some amount of cash coming in, is the club finally seeing a little bit of sense, far far too late.
Ezeikial
15/07/2009, 11:55 PM
The clear out has begun. Colin Healy and Denis Behan both on their way to Hartlepool.
Fee not disclosed afaik, but can't imagine it's near what the players are worth, given our circumstances. Two players off the wage bill, some amount of cash coming in, is the club finally seeing a little bit of sense, far far too late.
While it may be depressing as a Cork City fan, to see the start of a fine squad unravel, surely this is a very positive sign that there may actually be a way out of the mess for Cork?
Sizeable chunk of cash in (presume that it is up-front and not phased payments!) at least gives the club a better chance to appease the Revenue, and buy the time to re-structure from within the premier division.
tiktok
16/07/2009, 7:42 AM
While it may be depressing as a Cork City fan, to see the start of a fine squad unravel, surely this is a very positive sign that there may actually be a way out of the mess for Cork?
There's an easy way out of it, I'm just not sure that we'll set ourselves up to avoid being back here in a month.
While it may be depressing as a Cork City fan, to see the start of a fine squad unravel, surely this is a very positive sign that there may actually be a way out of the mess for Cork?
Sizeable chunk of cash in (presume that it is up-front and not phased payments!) at least gives the club a better chance to appease the Revenue, and buy the time to re-structure from within the premier division.
I would agree with you there. If we get sell players of the current squad and then go down to the A championship,it will give us the chance to build up this club from scratch with some of City's current youth team players and with some Munster senior league players. But the question is that will be enough.
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