View Full Version : Petition to wind up: Cork City Investment FC Ltd
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A face
11/06/2009, 3:44 PM
The June 10th deadline passed without Cork lodging anything with the court. They're probably fine as long as the do it in the next few days though.
Well as long as we've paid whats due. If that hasn't happened then we are snookered
We did it a few times, and it was always a very good money spinner. This year we had a back-of-the-shirt sponsor's draw too, which obviously wasn't as lucrative, but still raised a handy few quid.
It had f*** all to do with not being able to get a main sponsor Dodge. The amounts generated that harps1954 mentioned are spot on, and one year (the one O'Shea's Hotel won it I think) they made over €70,000 on it. A single main shirt sponsor would not have generated anywhere near that amount for a club like us.
Just spotted this now stann. I didn't meant to imply that it was a last resort of all clubs. However it is for Derry as they've tried to get another main sponsor without success (understandable giving the timing, the economy etc etc)
As I've said I think it can be a very good deal for some clubs, and I hope all clubs* that go down that route get tons of cash.
*certain conditions will apply
Buile Shuibhne
12/06/2009, 6:58 PM
Any danger of the FAI following suit?
CLUBS APPROVE NEW TAX REGULATIONS
Posted on: 12.06.2009
CLUBS APPROVE NEW TAX REGULATIONS
At their Annual General Meeting, Football League clubs have voted to introduce new financial regulations relating to tax payments.
Once necessary practical arrangements have been made, any club that falls behind with its employee related payments to HMRC will be subject to a transfer embargo until such time as the debt is cleared.
Football League Chairman Lord Mawhinney explained, "It is only right that we do not permit clubs that are unable to meet the costs associated with their existing playing staff to make further new player commitments."
Clubs have also agreed to give The League written permission to monitor, as appropriate, their tax affairs directly with HMRC, who have welcomed this new arrangement.
Lord Mawhinney said: "This new regime will provide us with an early warning system where clubs are facing financial problems. It should also help prevent HMRC debt reaching levels that otherwise could hinder the potential rescue of the club through a CVA.
"More importantly, football generally needs to develop a culture of paying its debts rather than putting them off for another day. This will help our clubs to become more financially sustainable in the longer term."
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/News/FLNewsDetail/0,,10794~1691419,00.html
brianw82
12/06/2009, 8:59 PM
Dunno. I made a thread on that a few weeks ago, it seemed to meet with general support here.
eelmonster
15/06/2009, 10:30 AM
What time are Cork due in court?
A face
15/06/2009, 11:34 AM
What time are Cork due in court?
I dont want to know :o
pineapple stu
15/06/2009, 12:55 PM
From the Cork forum -
Lads just back there. Afraid it won't be on until well after lunch. Nothing to report really other than we were trying to get an adjournment on consent (one that both sides agree to) but the revenue wouldn't have it so it is definitely going ahead today. Plenty of journos there so it'll be reported alright. Tom coughlan was there plus some other guy i didn't know who seemed to be part of the entourage. yer one from the FAI plus olan Kelleher our solicitor too. Won't be able to get to it after lunch so apologies, it was supposed to be on early but it got pushed back to second call. Probably about 3 before it is heard.
Longfordian
15/06/2009, 1:17 PM
Sounds like they don't have all the money yet. They may or may not get another chance to pay it but it won't be a long time.
holidaysong
15/06/2009, 1:22 PM
I thought they were in the clear on this one but could they be wound up today?
Longfordian
15/06/2009, 1:27 PM
They could be yeah. They may well get one last chance however. Rumour on the Cork forum is that Coughlan wants to do some kind of deal whereby he'll pay some now and some "when they win the league".
RonnieB
15/06/2009, 1:39 PM
They could be yeah. They may well get one last chance however. Rumour on the Cork forum is that Coughlan wants to do some kind of deal whereby he'll pay some now and some "when they win the league".
A sound financial argument.
Longfordian
15/06/2009, 1:42 PM
A proven winner. Bound to be to the Revenue's liking considering they were stiffed for their share of the Setanta Cup winnings.
pineapple stu
15/06/2009, 2:07 PM
Postponed for four weeks per the Cork forum. Ho hum.
sligoman
15/06/2009, 2:10 PM
Shock horror as Cork stay in business for another while...
holidaysong
15/06/2009, 2:14 PM
Despite Cork City and Setanta Sports attempting to outdo each other, the Cork vs. Dundalk match might actually go ahead live on Setanta on Friday..
Postponed for four weeks per the Cork forum. Ho hum.We'll get the season out of this yet :D
EDIT : Hearing Tommy No Bobs paid Johnny Taxman 102K
Johnny Taxman wanted us wound up today.
We have to pay the balance at the next sitting.
http://corkcityfc.ie/main.php?action=newsLink&headlineID=988
Cork City Football Club wishes to confirm that in the High Court today, the case under the Companies Act was adjourned for four weeks.
Cork City FC has made payments to the Revenue totalling €102,000 and is continuing to work to clarify the exact amount outstanding. The club’s auditors are working to arrange a meeting with the Revenue in order to resolve the issue fully, and it is hoped that this meeting will take place before the end of the week.
The club is pleased that it has been able to make progress towards a resolution of this issue, which will allow the club to focus fully on its upcoming matches. With the club sitting just two points off the top of the League of Ireland Premier Division table, the Rebel Army face Sligo Rovers in an FAI Ford Cup replay tomorrow night and then Dundalk in the Premier Division at Turner’s Cross on Friday night.
The thing that jumps out at me is that while €102k may have been paid, with a wage bill the size of Cork's that's only the tax for 3-4 months, so they're still well behind before even considering the monies owed post examinership.
http://corkcityfc.ie/main.php?action=newsLink&headlineID=988
Cork City Football Club wishes to confirm that in the High Court today, the case under the Companies Act was adjourned for four weeks.
Cork City FC has made payments to the Revenue totalling €102,000 and is continuing to work to clarify the exact amount outstanding. The club’s auditors are working to arrange a meeting with the Revenue in order to resolve the issue fully, and it is hoped that this meeting will take place before the end of the week.
The club is pleased that it has been able to make progress towards a resolution of this issue, which will allow the club to focus fully on its upcoming matches. With the club sitting just two points off the top of the League of Ireland Premier Division table, the Rebel Army face Sligo Rovers in an FAI Ford Cup replay tomorrow night and then Dundalk in the Premier Division at Turner’s Cross on Friday night.
How could they possibly not know by now the amount outstanding?
They claim the revenue are looking for money that comes from the time before examinership.
Obviously, the revenue don't agree, and it seems to be getting to the stage where they're totally fecked off with CCFC.
dublinred
15/06/2009, 3:57 PM
I had a bit of sympathy for them in the past but think the FAI need to step in now if the stories about them trying to withold our share of the gate receipts from Friday night are true.
I also had sympathy for them but this is really pulling the p*ss now.How can they not know how much money they owe and how many more chances are they going to be given?????????:mad:
If that is true that they withheld Sligo's share last Friday then thats bottom of the barrell stuff.Might not be true though.
higgins
15/06/2009, 11:42 PM
With a wage bill still fairly high it seems to me that a lot of the 102k that was paid since the story broke will just be going to service tax over that period.
It's unclear if this is on top of ongoing payments or just a once off payment of 102k that came off the 'historical debt'... to borrow a phrase from Brian Lennox!
Have the FAI made any comments regarding Cork and the 65% rule ?
All Shels need is Cork to be in First Division next year !!! We'll never get out of that hole :)
Ezeikial
16/06/2009, 12:37 AM
Have the FAI made any comments regarding Cork and the 65% rule ?
All Shels need is Cork to be in First Division next year !!! We'll never get out of that hole :)
Cork and Bohs too???
political_rebel
16/06/2009, 1:06 AM
I also had sympathy for them but this is really pulling the p*ss now.How can they not know how much money they owe and how many more chances are they going to be given?????????:mad:
If that is true that they withheld Sligo's share last Friday then thats bottom of the barrell stuff.Might not be true though.
It is not true...Sligo left the ground with several thousand euros in cash...
It is not true...Sligo left the ground with several thousand euros in cash...
That doesn't mean they didnt attempt to withhold it
All the comments I read on the issue suggested Cork paid it, but only after FAI/LOI intervention
adamd164
16/06/2009, 7:31 AM
We should enter that $1m paranormal challenge in the states... How a penniless shyster kept an unviable football club in business for 6 months by moving club offices to a deserted Cobh hotel, operating a club shop out of a massage parlour and organising friendlies with lower league English clubs.
brianw82
16/06/2009, 7:58 AM
We should enter that $1m paranormal challenge in the states... How a penniless shyster kept an unviable football club in business for 6 months by moving club offices to a deserted Cobh hotel, operating a club shop out of a massage parlour and organising friendlies with lower league English clubs.
Are they going to show his disastrous marriage to Mia Farrow?
SeanDrog
16/06/2009, 8:02 AM
Good piece on it in todays indo
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/leesiders-given-four-weeks--to-pay-up-1774574.html
Some very interesting quotes - Coughlan stating he does'nt understand the examinership process, then he states that he has a figure in his head but its a different figure than the revenue has in his head and indicates that he will sort them out !!!! if I were revenue and read this , it would certainly get my back up and give me a very bad impression of this guy.
"It is a complex process," said Coughlan. "I don't understand the examinership process but the difference has to be agreed by both parties. We have a month but hopefully we can get it wrapped up in the next couple of days.
FIGURE
"There's a (settlement) figure in my head, but I don't think it's the same figure that's in the Revenue's head. I'll get our guys to sit down with them and say, 'look, this is what it is'."
The above doesn't add up, he is making out that it is all still up for negotiation but if this is the case then why are they making 102k payments an the judge looking for the remaining payment? To me (and its just my opinion) he is tying to pay off a limited amount hoping to appease the revenue but avoid paying all that is owed but it appears that the revenue are having none of it.
Rovers Maniac
16/06/2009, 8:12 AM
I also had sympathy for them but this is really pulling the p*ss now.How can they not know how much money they owe and how many more chances are they going to be given?????????:mad:
If that is true that they withheld Sligo's share last Friday then thats bottom of the barrell stuff.Might not be true though.
For a crowd of 1853 or whatever the official crowd was, they tried to give us €2,500 our MC stood their ground so Cork changed it to 5k which was still not right, but we were told that was all we were getting. As it was worked out that it should be approx 7,5k for our share of the gate, we objected. The FAI were contacted and agreed that Cork should have give us 7,5k and Cork have been told to pay us the remaining balance by the FAI.
They also told us we were not allowed to put people on the gate as they would tell us how many and how much they would give us at the end, This information was relayed to our one and only female official which i think they thought may have been an easy touch. Anyway this was laughed at and the FAI official had to step in to tell we were allowed to have people on the gate.
Laughable stuff from Cork and very very amateurish from them.
Dalymountrower
16/06/2009, 8:38 AM
For a crowd of 1853 or whatever the official crowd was, they tried to give us €2,500 our MC stood their ground so Cork changed it to 5k which was still not right, but we were told that was all we were getting. As it was worked out that it should be approx 7,5k for our share of the gate, we objected. The FAI were contacted and agreed that Cork should have give us 7,5k and Cork have been told to pay us the remaining balance by the FAI.
They also told us we were not allowed to put people on the gate as they would tell us how many and how much they would give us at the end, This information was relayed to our one and only female official which i think they thought may have been an easy touch. Anyway this was laughed at and the FAI official had to step in to tell we were allowed to have people on the gate.
Laughable stuff from Cork and very very amateurish from them.
Disgraceful stuff from Cork officials if true.
tiktok
16/06/2009, 9:17 AM
To the question of 'not knowing how much we owe', we obviously know how much the revenue are looking for, but there seems to be disagreement on the figure. The club are arguing the point, in today's indo it makes clear that the issue is on the revenue bill for tax payable on wages we honoured from the examinership period.
All in all, I'm worried, we had three home games the last three weeks to help us on the money repaid, we're heading towards the break now and have two home games between now and the next hearing. The first this Friday against Dundalk, the second -v- Pat's which is on a Tuesday night, neither will bring in much cash. These two games will also have to bring in the wage bill for the next two months with our next home game against Bray being too late for the July pay cycle.
We're going to be seriously reliant on the Ipswich friendly bringing in some cash, bar the Roy Keane factor [long since flogged to death] there's not much of a draw in a game against Ipswich.
The club needs to get realistic, start making cuts in the July transfer window and start asking for financial help from those around who can offer it i.e. FORAS.
Sligo should have had people on every gate to make sure they got their due. Most LOI clubs will shaft you completely on cup gates if they are let away with it.
The club needs to get realistic, start making cuts in the July transfer window and start asking for financial help from those around who can offer it i.e. FORAS.
The club would have a lot more credibility if it started making expenditure cuts.
Rovers Maniac
16/06/2009, 10:19 AM
Sligo should have had people on every gate to make sure they got their due. Most LOI clubs will shaft you completely on cup gates if they are let away with it.
We did, but this is the reason the hassle started in the first place because Cork turned around and told us that we were not allowed to have people on the gate. At this point Rovers reported the matter to the FAI official there who said we did have a right to have somebody stand at the gate. By the way i agree on you other point.
marinobohs
16/06/2009, 10:20 AM
http://corkcityfc.ie/main.php?action=newsLink&headlineID=988
Cork City Football Club wishes to confirm that in the High Court today, the case under the Companies Act was adjourned for four weeks.
Cork City FC has made payments to the Revenue totalling €102,000 and is continuing to work to clarify the exact amount outstanding. The club’s auditors are working to arrange a meeting with the Revenue in order to resolve the issue fully, and it is hoped that this meeting will take place before the end of the week.
.
As LOI fans should we not be happy that we have not "lost" another club ? even if it just delays matters for 4 weeks ?
Dodge
16/06/2009, 10:37 AM
We should
But that doesn't mean we can't point out the ridiculousness that some clusb continue with
Sidefx
16/06/2009, 3:36 PM
Good piece on it in todays indo
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/leesiders-given-four-weeks--to-pay-up-1774574.html
Some very interesting quotes - Coughlan stating he does'nt understand the examinership process, then he states that he has a figure in his head but its a different figure than the revenue has in his head and indicates that he will sort them out !!!! if I were revenue and read this , it would certainly get my back up and give me a very bad impression of this guy.
"It is a complex process," said Coughlan. "I don't understand the examinership process but the difference has to be agreed by both parties. We have a month but hopefully we can get it wrapped up in the next couple of days.
FIGURE
"There's a (settlement) figure in my head, but I don't think it's the same figure that's in the Revenue's head. I'll get our guys to sit down with them and say, 'look, this is what it is'."
The above doesn't add up, he is making out that it is all still up for negotiation but if this is the case then why are they making 102k payments an the judge looking for the remaining payment? To me (and its just my opinion) he is tying to pay off a limited amount hoping to appease the revenue but avoid paying all that is owed but it appears that the revenue are having none of it.
Another €225K due by 13th July according to the Irish Daily Star...
The Ipswich game will hopefully attract a good gate and some much needed cash for us!
Hairy Bowsie
16/06/2009, 8:18 PM
All Shels need is Cork to be in First Division next year !!! We'll never get out of that hole :)
Sure if they send Cork and Bohs down, we won't even want to get out of it :) The first division will be where it's at.
higgins
17/06/2009, 2:41 PM
The FAI won't touch any of the big clubs apart from Shels. No fear of them sending Bohs or Cork down.
I'm worried the High Court will wind Cork up and we'll be facing Cork 37 next year!
Although I'd guess they have to come through the A Championship first.
Are Cork able to sign players at the moment ?
The FAI won't touch any of the big clubs apart from Shels.
makes me smile
A face
17/06/2009, 3:26 PM
Are Cork able to sign players at the moment ?
Yeah, we are. Why wouldn't we though? All our issues are with the tax man not the 65% rule.
If you're having problems keeping up with tax commitments then chances are the 65% rule will come into play at some point. After all, if you haven't the money to cover all your wage expenses then it stands to reason that your income cannot far exceed player outgoings, if it does so at all.
The FAI won't touch any of the big clubs.
Fixed that. ;)
higgins
18/06/2009, 5:02 PM
Roughly what is your monthly bill to revenue with the current squad ?
102K doesn't seem a lot as each month you're adding probably another 20 to 30k to your tax debt on curret wage structures?
By the time the next court case comes around you'll have had to pay those 4 weeks tax just to stand still.
Seems you need to get rid of some players to be honest.
You're at the same place Shels were at in 2006. Coming up to the transfer window we were in big trouble, Ollie gambled to hold all the players together and do all things possible to get to the end of the season and win the league. At that stage our squad were all free agents and we spent the next year or two paying them back 100% of their wages.
I would say Tom will try do an Ollie!
Martinho II
18/06/2009, 5:25 PM
Roughly what is your monthly bill to revenue with the current squad ?
102K doesn't seem a lot as each month you're adding probably another 20 to 30k to your tax debt on curret wage structures?
By the time the next court case comes around you'll have had to pay those 4 weeks tax just to stand still.
Seems you need to get rid of some players to be honest.
You're at the same place Shels were at in 2006. Coming up to the transfer window we were in big trouble, Ollie gambled to hold all the players together and do all things possible to get to the end of the season and win the league. At that stage our squad were all free agents and we spent the next year or two paying them back 100% of their wages.
I would say Tom will try do an Ollie!
didnt realise higgins that ye had to pay back 100% of their wages. what happened?
Hairy Bowsie
19/06/2009, 9:07 AM
We had to pay back every single penny we owed to not only players and staff but all creditors, and rightly so. The same should be expected of any club since but as we've seen this wasn't the case.
pineapple stu
19/06/2009, 9:30 AM
didnt realise higgins that ye had to pay back 100% of their wages. what happened?
As has been discussed a thousand times, Shels couldn't go into administration as they had the cash/assets to pay everyone; they just got it from selling the lease on their ground. Shels like to play the martyr by saying that they had to pay back all the outstanding wages, but their situation was just different to the others. They probably would have liked to go into administration and wipe a load of their debts, but couldn't.
Martinho II
19/06/2009, 9:33 AM
As has been discussed a thousand times, Shels couldn't go into administration as they had the cash/assets to pay everyone; they just got it from selling the lease on their ground. Shels like to play the martyr by saying that they had to pay back all the outstanding wages, but their situation was just different to the others. They probably would have liked to go into administration and wipe a load of their debts, but couldn't.
thats a very good easy explanation of it.No wonder I give up accountancy my head was wrecked! this discussion is highly technical and I wouldnt have a good grasp of legal laws so I am better off leaving it to the experts.:(
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