Petition to wind up: Cork City Investment FC Ltd

[pineapple stu]

I can't imagine it'll take all that long. "Have you the money? Yes or no?" kind of thing. There were a fair few such cases on the original notice, so if you can get through a fair few in a day, they can't be that long.

[tiktok]

Fair point tiktok. Can anyone hazard a guess at the best and worst outcome of this for Cork?

Worst outcome is Cork City FC Investments Ltd., is wound up, which effectively means that the FAI would be left with no choice but to eject us from the league. Depending on the legal wrangling that may follow in terms of a wound up company holding a licence, the club could cease to exist.

Best outcome today is that Coughlan has money to service all debts, gets a wake up call and looks to actually run the club in a sustainable fashion from here on in. Best outcome in the long run is the fans taking control.

The likely outcome is that TC and the Revenue have thrashed out some sort of renegotiated scheme or arrangement to repay the debt. Could we be in the same trouble in a few months time? If TC keeps pointing to the business plan we have not bringing in the planned money, instead of addressing the fact that the business plan is unrealistic, it's hard to see how we'll avoid being back here. Then again, a few high profile friendlies and a bit of prize money could see us wallpaper over the cracks in the interim.

We'll know soon enough anyway, have someone sitting in the court for us and as soon as the case is heard the text will come.

[pineapple stu]

Worst outcome is Cork City FC Investments Ltd., is wound up, which effectively means that the FAI would be left with no choice but to eject us from the league.
Does that absolutely, 100%, FAI want to help you in any way possible, have to follow, I wonder?

[Dodge]

Why would you suspectig the FAI want to help Cork make you cynical?

Surely wanting them to fold would be the cynical angle?

[pineapple stu]

Possibly, yeah. Force of habit, I suppose!

I'll take that bit out, so, and we can revisit the question.

[tiktok]

Does that absolutely, 100%, FAI want to help you in any way possible, I'm being very cynical, have to follow, I wonder?

The FAI don't want to lose Cork City [not because the league would die without us or anything so conceited]. I don't think they have to help us, though I know they're somewhat sympathetic to how the bills in question here arose. I think if it was required, they would step in to offer some sort of support.

Admittedly, the FAI can't have a Cork City who bring bad press every couple of months for the next few years, but I don't know what strings could be attached top ensure compliance when previous ones have been ignored.

[pineapple stu]

They don't have to help you, but Fran Gavin's publicly stated they want to help you.

What I'm more getting at though is is there a definite connection between having your holding company wound up, and being able to put 11 players on a pitch? I know Drogheda's trading company got wound up a few years back, and the FAI hit them with sanctions until they got it re-instated. It's a slightly different scenario, but still.

[Derry]

Neither am i. I merely want them punished for the crimes committed, and not just them anyone who breaks the rules should be punished for it.



Mid 06 actually, it was the first in a string of finacial disasters to hit the league in recent memory. What happened at Shels was right, we broke rules and we were punished for that. Things shouldn't change.

You broke the rules the year you cheated your way to the League title, yet your punishment didn't kick in till the following season, which was wrong. You should have been punished in the year you broke the rules, and had at least a points deduction. Bohs now look like they are following the same route, with the FAI merely giving them a slight slap on the wrist.

[tiktok]

What I'm more getting at though is is there a definite connection between having your holding company wound up, and being able to put 11 players on a pitch? I know Drogheda's trading company got wound up a few years back, and the FAI hit them with sanctions until they got it re-instated. It's a slightly different scenario, but still.

You can only change the holding company in the off-season is what we've been told.

If it was to go mid-season a new company cannot takeover the licence, which is understandable as it would avoid a company accruing huge debts, winding up and then the same people starting a new holding company afreash while continuing with a debt free club.

What happens to the licence until the off-season and beyond is a bit up in the air, but the club would be in danger of dying.

[pineapple stu]

Good summary, thanks.

[tiktok]

We're on now..............

[seand]

Confident

Earlier this week, Mr Coughlan told RTE's 'Monday Night Soccer Show' he was "very confident" that Cork's fans would continue to "have a team to support".


That'll be Ipswich Town presumably.

[pete]

CCFC folding bad news for all Premier division sides as would mean a 9 team league & less games which means less revenue.

[SeanDrog]

sorry Pete is that a statement that Cork ARE folding or an opionion that IF Cork fold it would be bad etc?

[tippex]

how long before we get the outcome?

[Hairy Bowsie]

CCFC folding bad news for all Premier division sides as would mean a 9 team league & less games which means less revenue.

Any team folding during the season is a disaster as we seen from the Dublin City incident. Results will be expunged (I believe that was the word for it?) and i've no doubts a court case will ensue.

[micls]

how long before we get the outcome?

Dunno but its nearly lunch now.

Dont think I can handle another hours wait...

[pineapple stu]

How long does it take to stand up and say "Here's the cheque, sorry bout that"?

[micls]

Being heard atm.

[micls]

A lot of people thinking were gone cos its being heard, rather than a deal.

Hope theyre wrong

[pineapple stu]

Hasn't it been on for the last half hour though?

Just think that the longer it goes on, the less likely it'll be good news, unfortunately.

[Dunny]

Good luck.

[micls]

Hasn't it been on for the last half hour though?


Just started afaik

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough. Bit of gun jumping earlier. Understandable, I suppose!

[SeanDrog]

Just started afaik


Micls have you somone at it?

[micls]

Micls have you somone at it?

Yeah.

[pól-dcfc]

Good luck.

[SeanDrog]

Yeah.

nice one - we can get the verdict moments after the fact. Was afraid we would be wathcing aertel for hours.

[Dunny]

nice one - we can get the verdict moments after the fact. Was afraid we would be wathcing aertel for hours.

Or you could just try the Cork forum...People from drogheda....:rolleyes::D

[pól-dcfc]

3 week stay of execution apparently

[Dunny]

From the Cork forum..

CCFC are safe until June 15th, at least. they hadnt paid the revenue 30 odd grand from the examinership and owe just under 300k. Thats only since the start of the year. Were going to pay off 90k in the next few weeks. Tom was there along with the hottest barrister in the high courts!

This information is courtesy of ballslikecoconuts. More detailed info will follow after lunch via the balls himself.

[SeanDrog]

ah need to register for it and after all Drogs got banned a ew years back I couldn't be arsed.

Here will do nicely. Micls any word from your source on what the vibe in the meeting is like?

[micls]

ah need to register for it and after all Drogs got banned a ew years back I couldn't be arsed.

Here will do nicely. Micls any word from your source on what the vibe in the meeting is like?

All ive heard so far is that its been adjourned for 3 weeks.

positive in that there must be some merit to the plan, or they'd just have wound us up

[SeanDrog]

From the Cork forum..

ahh white smoke. Looks good news - I suppose it is as its not a wind up order but I cant help feel that Coughlan is not going to get this resolved long term and its more a stay of execution. The figures owed are heafty.

[Mr A]

Jebus... nearly 300k owed already and the club only just out of examinership, what the hell is Coughlan playing at?

There is likely to be something like the same tax again to be paid before the end of the year as well as the arrears. Time for serious cutbacks on Leeside methinks.

[pineapple stu]

From the Cork forum..

From the Cork forum..

Quote:
CCFC are safe until June 15th, at least. they hadnt paid the revenue 30 odd grand from the examinership and owe just under 300k. Thats only since the start of the year. Were going to pay off 90k in the next few weeks. Tom was there along with the hottest barrister in the high courts!

This information is courtesy of ballslikecoconuts. More detailed info will follow after lunch via the balls himself.
They're big numbers. Can't help feel we'll be here again.

[SeanDrog]

Jesus... nearly 300k owed already and the club only just out of examinership, what the hell is Coughlan playing at?

There is likely to be something like the same tax again to be paid before the end of the year as well as the arrears. Time for serious cutbacks on Leeside methinks.

my thoughts exactly.

[Mr A]

Oh, and then there's the likely settlement with Matthews.

Coughlan is a total idiot.

[Ezeikial]

It must be abundently clear that this Coughlan era is likely to end in tears.

My hope is that Cork can complete the season and find a way to re-group in some coherent and sustainable way. But it begs the question about fairness / cheating if they win the league with a wage bill that is clearly not viable for them.

[SeanDrog]

Given the issues with cash flow in the economy, I cant see them being able to divert the amt of cash needed to service the tax man while still paying the wages on time. the figures are just too large.

For the ordinary Cork supporter this is a kick in the teeth (not todays judgement but the details of the amt etc). Coughlan clearly is not the man to lead the club - how the supporters can change things I simply do not know. Surely the FAI need to step in like the IMF and demand change / impsoe change , slash budgets, release players etc.

[Dunny]

Try get this debt out of the way(fundraising ala Drogheda etc.) and get the club in the hands of the supporters or FORAS.

[tiktok]

It's a stay of execution, nothing more.
A short time to pay €90k before we're back before the judge.

That's a crazy amount of debt and suprising to me. In fairness to Coughlan, not all of the debt was run up under his tenure, but it's clear we're not operating in anywhere near a sustainable fashion.

I wonder will we see questions over the wages which are due this week?

Still standing, but the referree is counting to eight in front of our eyes.

[Mr A]

And if he hasn't paid the taxman a bean, chances are there are plenty of other creditors out there too.

CCFC is fecked unless Coughlan cops on and brings in massive cutbacks or a white knight appears from nowhere.

[Buile Shuibhne]

That's a crazy amount of debt and suprising to me. In fairness to Coughlan, not all of the debt was run up under his tenure, but it's clear we're not operating in anywhere near a sustainable fashion.


Has this not shown-up/been flagged in the monthly checks/audits that Padraigh Smith & Co in the FAI Licencing Dept are carrying out?

[seand]

It's a stay of execution, nothing more.
A short time to pay €90k before we're back before the judge.

That's a crazy amount of debt and suprising to me. In fairness to Coughlan, not all of the debt was run up under his tenure, but it's clear we're not operating in anywhere near a sustainable fashion.

I wonder will we see questions over the wages which are due this week?

Still standing, but the referree is counting to eight in front of our eyes.

Not stirring here, but if it wasn't run up under Coughlan's tenure when was it run up?

Scary numbers though, can they pay that much and wages?

[charliesboots]

Does anybody know if Cork have paid any VAT or PRSI to the tax man since they came out of examinership?

[LeixlipRed]

How could the club come out of examinership owing 30k to the revenue?

[tiktok]

Try get this debt out of the way(fundraising ala Drogheda etc.) and get the club in the hands of the supporters or FORAS.

It's easy to say, but even though he was part of the problem, the Drogheda people had a figure head they could rally around in Vincent Hoey. Tom Coughlan isn't that type of person, he's just not trusted by a large % of CCFC supporters.

People will [rightly in my opinion] question why they should fundraise to support a man who seems intent on running up huge costs. No-one wants to see their money wasted and as long as it is, people will view FORAS as a warchest for when we need to pick up the pieces.

[Dodge]

How could the club come out of examinership owing 30k to the revenue?

Presumably its 30k from the agreement they made under the examiner (I think it was 15%)

[LeixlipRed]

Presumably its 30k from the agreement they made under the examiner (I think it was 15%)

Makes sense of course.