Petition to wind up: Cork City Investment FC Ltd

[seand]

There might be a bit more sympathy for City if they'd come out of examinership and cut their cloth. Instead they sign a chequebook manager, Kudozovic etc

[Steve Bruce]

Who will replace Cork in the Setanta cup if they where to cease to exist?

[HarpoJoyce]

Who will replace Cork in the Setanta cup if they where to cease to exist?

Excellent question.
Steve, I know you think you're helping by that isn't a priority just at the moment.

Other things to course my mind.
Run FORAS Run!

and there is a chance the hearing on the 25th of May will be deferred for a decision at a later date. But that won't be my decision.

[Steve Bruce]

How much does Cork owe?

[adamd164]

http://corkcityfc.ie/main.php?action=newsLink&headlineID=929


The full text of the statement:

Club Statement

Cork City Football Club wish to confirm that the club is currently in negotiation with the Revenue regarding the club’s tax liabilities.

When the club emerged from Examinership, a settlement was reached with Revenue. Additional tax liabilities subsequently emerged which result from the club’s previous ownership, and the club is currently addressing this matter with Revenue in a bid to bring the issue to a swift and successful conclusion. The fact that these liabilities have arisen subsequent to the Examinership is an issue which the club intends to pursue with the Examiners. The club’s legal and financial advisers intend to meet with the Revenue as a matter of urgency in order to come to an agreement with regard to our current tax liabilities.

Having successfully emerged from the Examinership, Cork City Football Club has embarked on a rebuilding programme in order to create a sustainable club which is grounded in the community and is capable of achieving success on and off the pitch. While the first team is currently enjoying an excellent run and is now joint top of the League of Ireland Premier Division, the current economic conditions have meant that the goals set by the club off the field are taking longer to achieve than was originally foreseen.

While income levels have proved to be less than were originally projected, the club is working hard to address this shortfall. Cork City Football Club is this year celebrating its 25th anniversary, and the club is working hard at every level to build a sustainable, successful club of which Cork city and county can be proud. This Friday night, Cork City FC face Derry City at Turner’s Cross in a top of the table clash, where the passion and commitment of the Rebel Army will once again be on show. Cork City Football Club is confident that any short-term problems affecting the club will be overcome as a result of the determination and ability of the club and its supporters, and that a bright and successful future lies ahead for the club.

[MariborKev]

Adam,

I know Cork people think they are special and it may shock you, but the rest of the country have also learnt to read at this stage. Therefore underlining sections of the statement is completely unnecessary.

The analysis of the situation presented by several posters on this thread already still stands, irrespective of your underlining.....Sure email that into Revenue, I am sure they will dismiss the petition on the basis of your Ctrl+U work:rolleyes:

[pól-dcfc]

Adam,

I know Cork people think they are special and it may shock you, but the rest of the country have also learnt to read at this stage. Therefore underlining sections of the statement is completely unnecessary.

The analysis of the situation presented by several posters on this thread already still stands, irrespective of your underlining.....Sure email that into Revenue, I am sure they will dismiss the petition on the basis of your Ctrl+U work:rolleyes:

And the exact same points have already been isolated from the statement.

[micls]

There are no complications. Cork City can have no dispute with the examiner as the examinership was subject to the ruling of the High Court.
That's simply not true.


FORAS: wake up! Step in and talk to the Revenue Commissioners.

And do what? We dont have anywhere near the amount that is owed, we have no stake in the company, and if the company goes bust mid season CCFC is gone, there is no option of us taking over.

[pól-dcfc]

And do what? We dont have anywhere near the amount that is owed, we have no stake in the company, and if the company goes bust mid season CCFC is gone, there is no option of us taking over.

How much is owed?

[micls]

How much is owed?

I dont have an exact figure but am pretty sure its a lot more than the 60-odd thousand we have at the moment.

[adamd164]

Adam,

I know Cork people think they are special and it may shock you, but the rest of the country have also learnt to read at this stage. Therefore underlining sections of the statement is completely unnecessary.

The analysis of the situation presented by several posters on this thread already still stands, irrespective of your underlining.....Sure email that into Revenue, I am sure they will dismiss the petition on the basis of your Ctrl+U work:rolleyes:
No, I don't think the point has been addressed actually. All previous posters have said that the examiner must therefore have hidden information from Coughlan... but Coughlan didn't claim to have been presented with an inaccurate picture of the finances. The statement explicitly says that projected income has fallen short and hence the issues regarding payments.

btw, Derry isn't in Ireland.;)

[pineapple stu]

btw, Derry isn't in Ireland.;)
Yes it is. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland)

Any chance you can debate like a grown up? Or at least not like a ten year old?

[Dodge]

Additional tax liabilities subsequently emerged which result from the club’s previous ownership, and the club is currently addressing this matter with Revenue in a bid to bring the issue to a swift and successful conclusion. The fact that these liabilities have arisen subsequent to the Examinership is an issue which the club intends to pursue with the Examiners. The club’s legal and financial advisers intend to meet with the Revenue as a matter of urgency in order to come to an agreement with regard to our current tax liabilities.

In fairness adam, that reads to me that Cork/Coughlan are blaming the Examiner for not spotting these "additional tex liabilities".

I honestly can't see how these "liabilities" could have come to light following examinership, considering how involved Revenue were in the examinership

Someone, somewhere is lying, and I'd bet every penny I had that it isn't Revenue

[pól-dcfc]

"additional tex liabilities".

Now, now Dodge, no need to take the **** out of the Cork accent...

[adamd164]

Yes it is. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland)

My post was in reference to the term 'country'. "Ireland", as a country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland), occupies 5/6ths of the island of Ireland. The "Republic of Ireland" then is just the description of this state.

But you're right, I digress...

[pól-dcfc]

My post was in reference to the term 'country'. "Ireland", as a country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland), occupies 5/6ths of the island of Ireland. The "Republic of Ireland" then is just the description of this state.

But you're right, I digress...

And you're a ballbag. I've no idea why people on here constantly go on about this. As I've said on anoter thread, it's not that funny when you consider the thousands of people who have died over the matter.

[pineapple stu]

My post was in reference to the term 'country'. "Ireland", as a country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland), occupies 5/6ths of the island of Ireland. The "Republic of Ireland" then is just the description of this state.

But you're right, I digress...
Your point was no more than retarded trolling. Trying to back yourself up is doubly so. Get over it.

[MariborKev]

btw, Derry isn't in Ireland.;)

Where did I say that it was ;). I'm on record as to my view in the superior education system north of the border. Perhaps I overestimated the reading ability of Cork people.

I'm with Dodge on this one. If the statement had merely stated that projected income had fallen short and that was the reason, I'd agree with you. However the paragraph quoted by Dodge is the key one. If there was no issue with the Examiner's work, why mention it.

[Mr A]

That's the odd thing about the statement.

If it's all the examiners fault, why mention that income has not been as expected? If the problem is that the money isn't there, why bring in the examiner (and why throw away the gate from a league game)?

[Mr A]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/iwoto/ee090514.jpg

[pineapple stu]

Good to see Fran Gavin prattling on about Cork's great league position and how they could actually go top on their own tomorrow. What planet is he on?

[Mr A]

What the hell is Gavin on about? His comments there just give further ammunition to those that feel the authorities have wildly variable attitudes depending on whether you're one of the top clubs or not.

[Mr A]

Despite the fact that everything was already in the crapper when he took over....

[seand]

Have to say I don't understand Cork's point about new unexpected liabilities coming up from the pre-examinership era. Are they really claiming that Revenue are ignoring their mutual examinership settlement and are now chasing "additional tax liabilities [which have] subsequently emerged which result from the club’s previous ownership"??

I was under the impression that creditors (Revenue included) had to come to an agreement during examinership and could not subsequently claim debts from pre-examinership. So it seems to break down to a question of whether Revenue are ignoring the legalities of the examinership process or Cork City are lying about their finances again.

[Calcio Jack]

if i was a betting man I'd bet

(1) Coghlan has today reveived by registerd post a letter from the Examiners solicitors demanding that he retracts the referecnces made concerning matters arising subsequent to the examinership...or the examiner will seek legal redress

(2) The Revenue are seking to wind Cork up because they haven't since the completion of the examinership received any paye or vat payments from Cork City.....

[Longfordian]

No, no it's all in hand. Tom Coughlan told Fran Gavin this. A verbal guarantee no less.

[Partizan]

The Cáwkies will blame everyone except themselves.

They came out of Examinership after giving an explicit gurantee of paying any outstanding monies owed. Instead of cutting their cloth they went out, got a cheque book manager and signed new players.

Really if they go tits up, they have no one to blame only themselves.

[Ezeikial]

Instead of cutting their cloth they went out, got a cheque book manager and signed new players.


Hard to argue with when you reflect on the signings :
Cork City
Manager: Paul Doolin
Ins
Davin O'Neill (Cobh Ramblers)
Dan Connor (Drogheda Utd)
Fahrudin Kuduzovic (Drogheda Utd)
Billy Dennehy (Derry City)
Stephen O’Donnell (Bohemians)
Shane Duggan (UCD)
Robert Mezeckis (FK Riga)
Guntars Silagailis (FK Riga)
Greg O'Halloran (Cobh Ramblers)

[pete]

Hard to argue with when you reflect on the signings :
Cork City
Manager: Paul Doolin
Ins
Davin O'Neill (Cobh Ramblers)
Dan Connor (Drogheda Utd)
Fahrudin Kuduzovic (Drogheda Utd)
Billy Dennehy (Derry City)
Stephen O’Donnell (Bohemians)
Shane Duggan (UCD)
Robert Mezeckis (FK Riga)
Guntars Silagailis (FK Riga)
Greg O'Halloran (Cobh Ramblers)

A bit selective.


Outs
Darren Murphy (Stevenage Borough)
Gareth Cambridge (St Mary's)
Liam Kearney (Derry City)
Mick Devine (Waterford Utd)
Lawrie Dudfield (Chelmsford City)
Colin O'Brien (Retired)
Darragh Ryan (St Pat's Ath)
Sean Kelly (Galway Utd) *Loan*
Colm Carroll (Limerick FC)

Doesn't include George O'Callaghan, Brian O'Callaghan, Dave Mooney & John O'Flynn who all left in the middle of last season.

[LeixlipRed]

It's clear from Fran Gavin's comments that the FAI are willing to commit Fudge XI: The Final Fudge to the big screen. Gavin's position is totally untenable. He has to go.

[razor]

Doesn't include George O'Callaghan, Brian O'Callaghan, Noel Mooney & John O'Flynn who all left in the middle of last season.
Freudian slip? :D

[Ezeikial]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial http://foot.ie/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?p=1160431#post1160431)
Hard to argue with when you reflect on the signings :
Cork City
Manager: Paul Doolin
Ins
Davin O'Neill (Cobh Ramblers)
Dan Connor (Drogheda Utd)
Fahrudin Kuduzovic (Drogheda Utd)
Billy Dennehy (Derry City)
Stephen O’Donnell (Bohemians)
Shane Duggan (UCD)
Robert Mezeckis (FK Riga)
Guntars Silagailis (FK Riga)
Greg O'Halloran (Cobh Ramblers)

A bit selective.

Quote:
Outs
Darren Murphy (Stevenage Borough)
Gareth Cambridge (St Mary's)
Liam Kearney (Derry City)
Mick Devine (Waterford Utd)
Lawrie Dudfield (Chelmsford City)
Colin O'Brien (Retired)
Darragh Ryan (St Pat's Ath)
Sean Kelly (Galway Utd) *Loan*
Colm Carroll (Limerick FC)
Doesn't include George O'Callaghan, Brian O'Callaghan, Noel Mooney & John O'Flynn who all left in the middle of last season.

Doesn't include George O'Callaghan, Brian O'Callaghan, Noel Mooney & John O'Flynn who all left in the middle of last season.

Still selective - forgot about
Outs
Alan Matthews

Is there a legal action still pending?

[pete]

Freudian slip? :D

Clearly ;)

[A face]

Is there a legal action still pending?

Yes .... and .... so ..... we knew this already. Have you anything to add?

[sligoman]

Yes .... and .... so ..... we knew this already. Have you anything to add?Bit touchy there A face...it was just a question.

[passerrby]

Bit touchy there A face...it was just a question.

think the thread should be changed to petition to wind up cork city supporters

[Dodge]

A bit selective.



Doesn't include George O'Callaghan, Brian O'Callaghan, Dave Mooney & John O'Flynn who all left in the middle of last season.

Still doens't read llike a club looking to massively cut costs

[Mr A]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here but the Examiner mentions a figure in excess of 300k- http://www.examiner.ie/sport/cork-city-play-down-revenue-windup-fears-91754.html

[A face]

Still doens't read llike a club looking to massively cut costs

Its all in the detail though aint it. Contract A could be €5000 a week, while contract B, C and D could total to €500. Its how the figures add up is what matters, the numbers dont allow for selectiveness.

[Ezeikial]

Its all in the detail though aint it. Contract A could be €5000 a week, while contract B, C and D could total to €500. Its how the figures add up is what matters, the numbers dont allow for selectiveness.


Do you know the numbers?

Are you aware if the playing budget has been reduced from immediately pre-examinership?

What many posters have pointed out previously is that, at face value, there does not appear to have been sufficient "cutting the cloth to measure"

[Bald Student]

Its all in the detail though aint it. Contract A could be €5000 a week, while contract B, C and D could total to €500. Its how the figures add up is what matters, the numbers dont allow for selectiveness.

In this event the club should have not renewed contract A and also not signed contracts B, C or D. It's all explained in a recent financial documentary from America (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj8TWETFFXQ)

[Buile Shuibhne]

Mr McCarthy told the Irish Examiner last night that he had confirmed with the Revenue Commissioners that all liabilities have been incurred post-examinership – in other words after October 16 – the day Mr Coughlan’s takeover bid was approved by the High Court.

Mr McCarthy, who will be seeking an apology from the club, added that, as yet, no effort has been made to contact him in relation to the issue.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/city-turn-back-to-pitch-battles-91840.html

[Dodge]

Its all in the detail though aint it. Contract A could be €5000 a week, while contract B, C and D could total to €500. Its how the figures add up is what matters, the numbers dont allow for selectiveness.

Obviously but people don't move country for 500pw contracts. And 2 of the players you signed would walk into any squad in the coutry, so they ain't cheap...

[Cosmo]

Obviously but people don't move country for 500pw contracts. And 2 of the players you signed would walk into any squad in the coutry, so they ain't cheap...

Sure didnt they outbid dundalk for 2 of them!!

Anyway, looks like theyve gone and p*ssed off the examiner anyway!!

[seand]

Mr McCarthy told the Irish Examiner last night that he had confirmed with the Revenue Commissioners that all liabilities have been incurred post-examinership – in other words after October 16 – the day Mr Coughlan’s takeover bid was approved by the High Court.

Mr McCarthy, who will be seeking an apology from the club, added that, as yet, no effort has been made to contact him in relation to the issue.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/city-turn-back-to-pitch-battles-91840.html

So are Cork City FC lying or are Revenue and the examiners lying?

[Mr A]

It is pretty damn clear at this point that even if CCFC survive this that they need to get Coughlan out of there ASAP.

[jimhacker]

they need to get Coughlan out of there ASAP.

But there's the nub.


Who exactly are "they"?


At the moment "they" = Coughlan.

[pete]

Still doens't read llike a club looking to massively cut costs

I wouldn't disagree with you. I think a lot of City fans were plesantly surprised with the squad we had for this season even if a little small.

Builders who made their money in the boom may not be the most stable business people to run a football club.

[Mr A]

True, but one would hope that FORAS could work towards a position of more influence on the club, be that through a new owner or whatever.

[micls]

True, but one would hope that FORAS could work towards a position of more influence on the club, be that through a new owner or whatever.

I agree but it takes time, fundraisers are constantly ongoing and were building up as much as we can but the simple fact is we are not in a position to take over the club now, we simply dont have the money.

On the influence part, we currently influence all activities bar the money. We chair the match night committee, schools and community committee, Ticket sales and promotions committee, media committee and the fundraising committee and have a huge influence over the day to day running of the club including cutting costs on a match night etc.

5 FORAS BOM members have an agreement to now sit on the club BOM and have a look at the books(hasn't actually happened yet though.

So imo we have as much influence as were going to get, but at the end of the day TC is the owner and its his money and there's nothing we can do to force him to act a certain way with it right now.