John Giles resignation and Stan

[NeilMcD]

Well we could play Miller and Mc phail or Douglas and Miller but I think they would lack a bit of bite in midfield. A central midfield needs many attributes. Against Germany we did not have any of the basics of keeping the ball and retaining posession probably the biggest attribute of a central midfield partner ship. I think a midfield with say Miller or Mc Phail or Douglas or Andy Reid only would lack a physcial prescence. Its about getting the combination right I suppose. I would think thought that Stephen Reid and one of the above may work.

[NeilMcD]

Youve kinda taken your own meaning from what I was saying and ran with it and now ya seem to have gone a bit far with it.... you should probably keep your "footballers fighting in dressing room over jerseys" fantasy to yourself. I thought you didnt do humour neil so why comment on my attempts?
Basically I do think people over analyse football. its essentially a simple game and the genius of great managers is arguably that they keep it simple or convey an illusion of simplicity to the players. actually last night the panel on rte just backed up my point. You and eirebhouy couldnt think outside the box enough to even contemplate the fact that we might not play a Carsley type player. a holding midfielder in your book, a limited player in mine. try stick to what is actually said Neil and not to what you beleive is being implied.

Noe of the panel last night have been successful in the modern game and I think that a lot of what they say is out dated to be honest. I enjoy watching them but they certainly need to update their views on how football is played in the modern game.

[Billsthoughts]

Right - so you agree that he should be given a fair crack of the whip then? You were saying before that he should have gone after the Germany game (which would of course prevent him from having opportunity to get it right!) I agree with you about Keane's performances for Ireland in the last few matches - he does try silly over-complicated things when he should be taking the simpler option. But I was commenting specifically on his performance against Liverpool last weekend. I saw the game. You didn't! To try and maintain that the scoreline somehow tells you something about one player's performance is a bit false ... players play well and don't score. Players play well and lose. To actually state that it is irrelevant that you didn't actually see the game is very very naive.

apologies for the multi responses.....
I dont agree that he should be given a fair crack of the whip. this approach is just fundamentally flawed.
People are saying he isnt right man for job. lets give him time tho and see if it works out. I can accept what people like Owlsfan and Stuttgart are saying. they thought they played well agasint germany. fair enough. I disagree. but can accept the logic for keeping him on. but people who say that he wasnt their choice and so far the signs are bad but keep him on cause he should be given time. I dont accept that logic at all and its a fundamentally flawed approach to acheiving anything.
the robbie keane thing is just showing you up in a bad light. let it go. I saw the highlights. none of which involved Robbie Keane.

[Billsthoughts]

Noe of the panel last night have been successful in the modern game and I think that a lot of what they say is out dated to be honest. I enjoy watching them but they certainly need to update their views on how football is played in the modern game.

ah the oul modern game myth(am gonna go for myth this time over fad)......
its just that. a myth. I bet if you applied the same principles that underlined the successfull teams of the 60s and 70s and 80s you would still have a successful team now.

[NeilMcD]

You have bet me that but you cant prove it. In addition neither Houghton or Dunphy were successful in management at any time. Giles was a decent manager but not a top class one.

[Billsthoughts]

You have bet me that but you can prove it.

me fail english? thats umpossible!

[Billsthoughts]

You have bet me that but you cant prove it. In addition neither Houghton or Dunphy were successful in management at any time. Giles was a decent manager but not a top class one.

ah the english version thank you.

neither were you succesful in management at any time...so can we dismiss your opinions as well?
didnt think so.

[NeilMcD]

Of course you can if you like Also Bill do you really want me to go through all your posts and examine them for correct grammar. As like most people on this forum I am guilty of the odd typo, until your totally innocent of this crime against the English language leave it out.

Also dismiss my opinions if you like I dont mind. Also I am not dismissing the RTE Panels opinions but you were using them as some sort of overall authority to back up your view. I am just saying that these guys are not exactly sucessful exponents of football managment.

[Emmet]

I dont agree that he should be given a fair crack of the whip. this approach is just fundamentally flawed.
People are saying he isnt right man for job. lets give him time tho and see if it works out. I can accept what people like Owlsfan and Stuttgart are saying. they thought they played well agasint germany. fair enough. I disagree. but can accept the logic for keeping him on. but people who say that he wasnt their choice and so far the signs are bad but keep him on cause he should be given time. I dont accept that logic at all and its a fundamentally flawed approach to acheiving anything.

Yeah - I understand what you are saying ... I just think that a change this soon after his appointment would be worse than keeping him for - at least - the remainder of the Euro 2008 qualifiers. I think the cons outweigh the pros right now. I'm not just talking about the 'fair crack of the whip' argument either - there are other compelling reasons too. I wasn't happy with the Germany performance but to change the manager after only one competitive game would be far worse for the team than keeping on a manager (who probably is out of his depth) for another 18 months or so.

the robbie keane thing is just showing you up in a bad light. let it go. I saw the highlights. none of which involved Robbie Keane.

Your argument was that it's "irrelevant" whether or not you saw a game to assess a player's performance in that game; Spurs didn't score any goals therefore their forwards must have played poorly. That's mind-bogglingly simplistic ... all I did was point out that a player's performance is determined by a lot more than the number of goals they score / don't score ... do you really not agree with that? If that shows me up in a bad light then so be it!

[eirebhoy]

You and eirebhouy couldnt think outside the box enough to even contemplate the fact that we might not play a Carsley type player. a holding midfielder in your book, a limited player in mine. try stick to what is actually said Neil and not to what you beleive is being implied.

We're not thinking outside of the box. I've said a hundred times that every team I can think of play a holding midflielder, anchorman or whatever else you like to call it. When I'm talking of a holding midfielder I'm not talking of a player that runs around doing all the defensive work. Gatusso and Gravesen do that but they're not holding midfielders. Alonso wouldn't really get stuck in too much but he's Liverpool's holding midfielder. He's always in the best position possible to receive a pass and lay it off. It just means a team will have a lot more possession.

Arsenal - Gilberto
Aston Villa - McCann
Blackburn - Savage
Bolton - Campo
Charlton - Faye
Chelsea - Makelele
Everton - Carsley
Fulham - Diop
Liverpool - Alonso
Man City - Reyna
Man Utd - Carrick
Middlesbrough - Boateng
Newcastle - Parker
Portsmouth - O'Neil
Reading - Sidwell
Watford - Mahon
West Ham - Mullins

Why do all these teams play a holding midfielder? I think if you don't play one that the other team are just going to dominate possession. If you can find the perfect partnership then that's great but we're not going to make that partnership out of our current set of players. I have to say, Keane and Kavanagh would have been a very good partnership imo and could have switched roles throughout games.

[NeilMcD]

Keane and Andy Reid would have been the best partnership in my view.

[Billsthoughts]

yeah
that is a list of one midfielder in every premiership team.
well done.
you have proved me wrong there.

[NeilMcD]

No its not as some teams are missing.

[eirebhoy]

yeah
that is a list of one midfielder in every premiership team.
well done.
you have proved me wrong there.

What are you on about now? I'm trying to show how many managers feel that a "limited player" is vital. You've still yet to name a current team that don't play one.

[Billsthoughts]

shaktar Donsesk
Aek athens
Queen of The South
Monaghan Utd
there I just named four. need I go on?
all you are tryin to do is manipulate the situation so as to turn it into a statto debate of which I am sure you will have all your little stats handy. what I said still stands. there is no law that says we have to play a limited midfielder alongside a creative one. two good midfielders will do.

[NeilMcD]

But do we have 2 good midfielders.

[Billsthoughts]

well the two we play there arent working because they give the ball away too much. So I would try two other ones. Its not like they are attempting something creative and lose the ball which would be fair enough. they just lack the skill (in kilbanes case) and the concentration levels(in o sheas case) to control and pass the ball. again it is stauntons job to scour the divisions and see what is available. he seesm to value a player in the reserves at a so called big club over a player getting first team football lower down the leagues.

[eirebhoy]

shaktar Donsesk
Aek athens
Queen of The South
Monaghan Utd
there I just named four. need I go on?

tbh, I couldn't tell you who plays for AEK, Queen of South or Monaghan but I do know that Shaktaar's holding midfielder is their captain Tymoshuk. I know that because Celtic tried to get him in the summer. He was probably Ukraine's best player at the world cup. Not bad for a limited player.

[NeilMcD]

well the two we play there arent working because they give the ball away too much. So I would try two other ones. Its not like they are attempting something creative and lose the ball which would be fair enough. they just lack the skill (in kilbanes case) and the concentration levels(in o sheas case) to control and pass the ball. again it is stauntons job to scour the divisions and see what is available. he seesm to value a player in the reserves at a so called big club over a player getting first team football lower down the leagues.

Who do you want to see play in our central midfied. I agre Kilbane and O Shea have to go. But put forward a positive idea. Give me 2 names that you would like to see in our central midfield versus Cyprus and the Czech Rep.

[Stuttgart88]

I can accept what people like Owlsfan and Stuttgart are saying. they thought they played well agasint germany.

Just for the record, I thought certain aspects of the performance were good, but central midfield was abysmal. The classic "curate's egg" I suppose. But that's not the same as thinking we played well!