QuoteWhy not just keep two teams, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - teams that we're equally as proud of and passionate about?Originally Posted by ramondo
Firstly, the team represents the Irish Football Association (A Company, and member of FIFA). It's the IFA, it's International team supporters, and FIFA who have the say.Whatever about the actual number of all-Ireland team advocates in the current set of NI fans, surely Northern Irish society should have a big say? After all, the IFA and the NI team purport to represent Northern Ireland (and by extension, obviously its people... and strangely, according to the Anthem, England) on the international stage.
Technically of course, the FAI can choose players from anywhere on the island, but while there will be players from the North who decide to play for the Republic, there will also be players who don't wish to play for the Republic (due perhaps to their backgrounds). This situation doesn't exactly help NI's chances of retaining the best players within their boundaries, as you well know. You're obviously aware of the possible positive implications of an All-Ireland team and it would not simply mean the end of a team for you (and other people from Northern Ireland) to support. Could you truly not bring yourself to roar on a team containing a few lads from Belfast, Derry and Newry, as well as lads from Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Galway? Is it that abhorrent?
Sainsbury's may wish they could be merged with Tescos - many consumers might like that too. However, the Management of Sainsburys and Tescos are the decision makers on the issue.
Secondly, I would much rather support a team consisting of players from (or eligible to play for) Northern Ireland. I have little or no affinity with players from Dublin, Cork, Galway, or Donegal.
It, therefore, is not something I could passionately "roar on".
Again, I ask why can't you respect the choice of those who wish to play for/support Northern Ireland?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Why not just keep two teams, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - teams that we're equally as proud of and passionate about?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
But as keeps being mentioned and you seem unwilling/ unable to grasp, there's already an effective united Ireland side, one that can and does choose players from all across the 32 counties, not to mention Glasgow, Lancashire, Nottinghamshire and Birmingham. So in practice no-one needs to hypothesise. It'd be like hypothesising about it raining in Aughnacloy next week. Given that, there's no reason to get rid of the existing NI side. You'll struggle to find a single current player in favor of that.
International football is necessarily political; you can't get much more politically provocative than calling to abolish the NI international side.
If you want a bigger pool of talent, pick even more Brits in your team and stop whining? Or daydream, like you're doing about economic recovery short-term.For football's sake on this island it makes sense to have an AIL and an AI National team.Better pool of talent, greater access to Capital funding, yeah sure the economies in the ****s now but it'll recover in time, in short time
If you love rugby union so much, watch it instead.Look at rugby, we're one of the worlds best teams....Ireland! up there with the best. Irelands call is always majestically roared out in Croker, and soon to be Lansdowne
No, I think we'd still be mediocre in the mid- to long-term. Look at the records. NI had an excellent squad in the early and mid 80s, you ditto for a longer period from the mid 80s to mid 90s. Both teams have been decidely third rate for much of the time since, and arguably for decades beforehand. A notional team with six million population and one or two part-time leagues to call on isn't necessarily going to see off Norway, Scotland or Switzerland in European qualifiers, let alone the really big teams.in footballs sake i mean do you not agree that on the international front we could progress far further than both sides currently do now?
Why not test it yourself? Stand for Derry City Council/ Stormont/ Westminster/ Dail Eireann via Donegal NE/ the European Parliament on a single issue 'let's abolish the NI team' ticket. You'll romp home, I don't think.
There are no postivies in it for us (NI fans), and no need for you (RoI fans, including players within that group). Ergo there's no realistic likelihood of it happening.I'd say some players might promote such an idea for the future generations of footballers on the island, since there are a fair few possible positives in it
Come on Pred, you can do better than that. It's about YOU wanting to effectively abolish our team, not our unwillingness to embrace players from the South. Go back up-thread and you'll see that as a cricket fan I support an Ireland side recently including three players from Dublin, as well as others originally from Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and PakistanCould you truly not bring yourself to roar on a team containing a few lads from Belfast, Derry and Newry, as well as lads from Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Galway? Is it that abhorrent
I'm ridiculing it here, it's ridiculous, irritating and mildly offensive.I've read some threads on OWC though, that are disheartening, in that they simply ridicule the idea and deny it any space to develop, but for obvious reasons I understand
The team would be called Ireland, just as you call yours now. It would play almost all games in the South, with tricolors waving and the Soldiers' Song played every time your president attended. Many of your fans, media etc. would regard it, quite logically as a takeover of our team losing your team nothing. For the 42nd time on this thread alone, we're not interested!
I've no idea what proportion of RoI supporters agree with you, but whatever it is you are simply wrong. There's no other plausible explanation for getting rid of NI's team when a perfectly adequate all-Ireland-plus-numerous-diaspora-from-Britain side already exists.I would think I speak for the majority of ROI supporters in saying that "getting one over" on NI supporters, or somehow trying to "abolish" their team is not the motivation here
Here here!Why not just keep two teams, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - teams that we're equally as proud of and passionate about?
You show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser - Vince Lombardi
Why do you keep "digging" at the fact that the ROI picks 2nd and 3rd generation Irish? It has nothing to do with the discussion re: merging the two associations.
I'm digging to answer your (plural) digging, and because it IS relevant to the point. If you're claiming that the main motivation is to have a united Ireland team with access to a 32-county plus diaspora playing pool (as opposed to just stirring to irritate NI fans), then I'm merely reminding you that your current team has three Englishmen, a Scot and a guy from Derry in it. You don't need to merge any associations to maintain- or even increase- that proportion.
Actually Taylor doesn't claim to be third generation (or any generation at all) Northern Irish. He and the IFA exploited the rules as they were then.
But there's a huge difference. I'm not arguing to abolish the RoI team just so we can bring in Joe Murphy or Kieren Westwood when Taylor and Given retire.
The 'inordinate power' is just your opinion. The IFA has a vote in FIFA and UEFA, just like Liechtenstein or Andorra. And like the English, Scots and Welsh we have an ex-officio place on the international board (basically a committee that reviews the laws of the game and the like). There's no inherent reason for this perk continuing and I'd have no problem if it disappeared tomorrow. But you're mising- perhaps deliberately- the point; the IFA and NI side will continue to exist because that's what 100% of its fans want. It has little to do with the blazers- although if it did, the argument would presumably apply equally to your own blazers in the FAI?the fact the IFA are a 'home nation' with inordinate power for their size means the blazers in Belfast will never give up their perks, and why would they
I'm not really interested in the political side of an AIL (which I think is the vast majoriy of the desire for it), but I'm not convinced it would do much to imporve the standard of football (or more to the point, there are lots of other things far more feasible that would have a better impact on the standard of LOI football).
The NI fans on here (mostly) don't want to merge with the FAI, or indeed, anybody. I can't see any real reson to make them.
I'm in favor of the Setanta cup or similar (it would be a shame if it petered out before Crusaders' recent mini-revival). If it attracted sustained interest (large crowds, new sponsors and the rest) over say five years, then we could consider expanding it into a league structure. Until then, as you say, let's concentrate on improving the existing leagues.
Fair point.
Each to their own.Secondly, I would much rather support a team consisting of players from (or eligible to play for) Northern Ireland. I have little or no affinity with players from Dublin, Cork, Galway, or Donegal.
It, therefore, is not something I could passionately "roar on".
I do respect the choice of those people, but that does not preclude me from discussing a hypothetical situation, however ridiculous it might seem to some.Again, I ask why can't you respect the choice of those who wish to play for/support Northern Ireland?
As I've said, I acknowledge that there is an effective united Ireland team, but it's not the same as having one international football entity, as you obviously know.
Ha, it would probably be a first! Seriously though, I still think it's an issue which should see the consultation of the population of Northern Ireland (as well as the Republic) as they are all prospective fans.Why not test it yourself? Stand for Derry City Council/ Stormont/ Westminster/ Dail Eireann via Donegal NE/ the European Parliament on a single issue 'let's abolish the NI team' ticket. You'll romp home, I don't think.
There are no positives in it for NI fans who are not in favour of a united Ireland team, but for those NI fans (including prospective NI fans) who are in favour, there are positives.There are no postivies in it for us (NI fans), and no need for you (RoI fans, including players within that group). Ergo there's no realistic likelihood of it happening.
True, there would be an effective abolition of two teams in favour of one team in this proposition, but that is obviously not solely the issue for some fans. Not Brazil says he would find it difficult to cheer on a united Ireland team as passionately, since he feels little to no affinity to the Republic of Ireland. You don't have that problem thoughCome on Pred, you can do better than that. It's about YOU wanting to effectively abolish our team, not our unwillingness to embrace players from the South. Go back up-thread and you'll see that as a cricket fan I support an Ireland side recently including three players from Dublin, as well as others originally from Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan
Lots of things have been labelled ridiculous in the past, they weren't all necessarily so!I'm ridiculing it here, it's ridiculous, irritating and mildly offensive.
42 times huh?! Jaysus. I think it's clear that such a scenario could be avoided if there was an equal amount of input from the IFA and NI fans, but of course, it could be avoided altogether if it wasn't given any credence whatsoever, which is what you and NB have been doing. Then again, maybe it will happen eventually and the lack of input from NI fans would encourage the 'takeover' attitude.The team would be called Ireland, just as you call yours now. It would play almost all games in the South, with tricolors waving and the Soldiers' Song played every time your president attended. Many of your fans, media etc. would regard it, quite logically as a takeover of our team losing your team nothing. For the 42nd time on this thread alone, we're not interested!
I still don't see why English and Scottish born players are relevent to the discussion. Any possible merger of the FAI and IFA would not have any bearing on eligibility rules regarding these players whatsoever.
I'm not in favour of an all Ireland team btw.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what positives could a fan of NI see in the disappearance of NI (as opposed to ROI or a united Ireland team) as a football team?
This is going on the assumption that there are a small number (Not Brazil says under 5%) of NI fans who would be perhaps in favour of an all-Ireland team.
That would be to say that greater than 95% of Northern Ireland fans OPPOSE any merger with anyone.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I've been a supporter of the Setanta Cup - unfortunately, it has not harnassed anything like the degree of interest some would have thought it might.
Whether that's the set up of the competition, I don't really know.
However, it does nothing to suggest that a LOI + two or three IL Clubs will be the saiour of Club football on this island.
Best to concentrate on improving the existing leagues as you, quite rightly, say.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Except no-one has ever put your equivocal statement to the test....
And there's no reason why we can't try to re-educate them.
As you keep telling us they're'Irish'. Except the majority would say they're not.
This is at the crux of the matter.
Why do you wish to trample all over the desire of the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland fans' to see our International side retain it's autonmomy, especially against a background of the FAI having the pick of the 32 Counties players?
Can you see that this can be perceived as an aggressive attitude, which completely disrespects the right of choice?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
A team that represents them and qualifies for Finals periodically. As opposed to once a generation or less. And there should be a mutual benefit hopefully.
You put it to the test all to the test all you like - why don't you organise a survey of Northern Ireland block bookers?Except no-one has ever put your equivocal statement to the test....
And there's no reason why we can't try to re-educate them.
As you keep telling us they're
Rather than use wee winky smilies (as if I haven't got the mood of Northern Ireland fans bang on the money on the issue) would that not be more practical, and, perhaps, prove me wrong?
You can try and "re-educate" all you like - I would respectfully suggest that attitudes like that expressed in the very first post on this thread, and your subsequent labelling of Unionists (and by your inference, Northern Ireland fans) isn't going to do much "re-educating".
To correct you, I have stated that I'm Irish (and British) - how others amongst the Northern Ireland fan base identify themselves is a matter for their choice.
I refuse to denounce my Irishness because of the myopic view of what that means, espoused by some - I am, afterall, a supporter of the IRISH Football Association's International representative teams.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 07/12/2009 at 11:09 AM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I would much rather Northern Ireland never qualified again, but still competed as Northern Ireland, than disappear.
I am wholly represented by a team called Northern Ireland - no tweaking of that neccessary, thanks all the same.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Looks like you'll get your wish then.
Though I'm glad you speak for the whole population of N.E. Ulster. They would be very
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