Is Foot.ie just becoming a talking shop?

[DmanDmythDledge]

As far as forum layout in concerned I think it would be best if World Cup was put into other football and instead of an international section make that an Ireland section.

[NeilMcD]

Fair enough so; cheers for that.

What I'll do anyway is split the Cyprus thread into smaller, topic specific chunks; I think it'd work well.

If it's a members issue, the best thing you - or anyone - can do is start a few threads.

Just to say I said it was a members issue as much as anything. This does not mean its purely a members issue. I do think that the over moderation of this specific forum is not needed in my view and has lad to what Skstu points out to the colourful characters etc.

I think its combination of things but the culture has been more of following rules rather than any bit of anarchy and craic. I agree with this approach for every other forum bar the fans forum but its only my opinion.

Got we track sided?!

I don't think we have at all.

[pineapple stu]

There's feck all moderation in the Fans' Forum, to be honest! All I really do is keep away game threads together instead of branching off into 20 threads, and dish out the odd infraction for excessive ****s and the likes. I make no apologies for either.

Again though, specific examples of something I as a mod could change would be welcomed.

[dahamsta]

I think the problem with "team spirit" - sorry, it just seemed appropriate - is that Foot.ie started out as an LOI site, and the Ireland fanbase sort of grew out of that. The problem in particular being that LOI fans are vehement - that's probably an understatement - about their support for Irish teams, viewing anyone that supports a british team a barstooler and a traitor working against the Irish teams they should be supporting. Which is fair enough imho, I'm a 100% convert.

Unfortunately though, well, that's a lot of your Ireland fans right there. Probably less so now that the sheepskin-wearers have gone back to their true love of rugby now someone's actually winning again, but it remains a problem. I'd suggest tolerance as the answer, but I think that's stretching things a bit far.

I think NeilMcD hit the nail on the head and answered his own question when he said it's mostly down to the fans. It's things like self-organised trips and buses and banners that create the camraderie, and that's what'll bring more people into the Fans Forum. That's not to say the mods don't have a part to play, they do, but we do kind of need guidance.

On that topic, one suggestion was that we go easier on the moderation in the Fans Forum, and on that I'd say Trust Is Earned. That's how it works globally on Foot.ie: if you're a good poster and you've been around a while, you'll get a hell of a lot more leeway than an illiterate n00b. That goes double if your contributions are felt of value to the site, rather than a community.

Naming is definitely an issue imho btw. I know and you know what the Fans Forum is for, but it's never been crystal clear, which is what you need to get newcomers in. I'm against splitting because splits need to come from demand, but renaming and/or moving it down to International isn't a big deal if people really think it'll help.

adam

[DmanDmythDledge]

Naming is definitely an issue imho btw. I know and you know what the Fans Forum is for, but it's never been crystal clear, which is what you need to get newcomers in. I'm against splitting because splits need to come from demand, but renaming and/or moving it down to International isn't a big deal if people really think it'll help.

Well the main reason I think the naming thing should be changed is that, as you've said, the site was originally for LOI fans and that's the way the site was laid out for, which hasn't really changed all that much except for a bit of tweaking to off-topic and the like. If there was an Ireland section instead of international that would give a bit of scope to expand a bit rather than just having an Ireland and fans forum section. As you said that would only be an issue if there is a lot of traffic in the forum, which I don't think is going to be a problem.

[dahamsta]

i think it was obvious what i meant. The fans forum might attract more traffic if it was seperate and apart from the ireland forum but both came under the "Ireland Section"..

The Ireland forum is kind of the Ireland section though, which was probably stu's point. The International grouping refers to International football, not Ireland in an international context. stu's just been around too long.

[Greenforever]

Neil, would it be fair to say that the reduction in posts regarding helping each other arrange buses, coaches etc is directly related to the huge reduction in numbers travelling to the current qualifiers??? rather than the layout of the forums

Missed you in Sofia, spent most of the time in the Radisson...

[dahamsta]

My last post was drafted before I saw this.

Well the main reason I think the naming thing should be changed is that, as you've said, the site was originally for LOI fans and that's the way the site was laid out for, which hasn't really changed all that much except for a bit of tweaking to off-topic and the like. If there was an Ireland section instead of international that would give a bit of scope to expand a bit rather than just having an Ireland and fans forum section. As you said that would only be an issue if there is a lot of traffic in the forum, which I don't think is going to be a problem.

In comparison to some forums, traffic in Ireland isn't an issue, I just want to make sure people understand that we won't split to, say, a dozen forums. It just doesn't work.

I'm definitely open to the idea of a dedicated Ireland section; World Cup can pretty much be plonked anywhere for the moment. The question is, and this is as much directed at the mods as the membership, how do we rearrange it? And this always gets me: what do we call the Ireland forum? You can't have Ireland > Ireland, that's just wrong!

adam

[John83]

The question is, and this is as much directed at the mods as the membership, how do we rearrange it? And this always gets me: what do we call the Ireland forum? You can't have Ireland > Ireland, that's just wrong!

adam

"Team talk" is the equivalent juventuz.com sub-forum, if memory serves. I can't access it from here.

[dahamsta]

Well, let's start with:

1. General
2. Team Talk
3. Matches

Would that cover most bases?

[Junior]

I for one have not travelled during this campaign (apart from the home games of course!) due to other commitments but it is noticeable that whilst the support in Bari and Sofia was colourful and vocal it was down in the numbers we might have expected a few years ago.

As a result, the various posts about sharing taxis and the like become less relevant and obviously interesting (though I still cant help torturing myself to see what everyones plans are!!).

So I think Greenforever makes a fair point.

However, even when I was travelling to games, Ive never been one for the big 'Internet Forum Meetups' etc.. just not really my thing.

Whenever Ive browsed at YBIG there never seems to be that many posters viewing. I think circa 12-15 is the most Ive seen when Ive been on there. Is it a case of a few very dedicated lads& lassies, with loads of energy and enthusiasm to organism the bits and pieces you mention?

For what its worth, I prefer the layout of foot.ie myself but havent used ybig all that often. I dont really think there is a need to create further sub forums etc, you can easily find what you want as it is IMO

PS: Can I claim credit to starting the idea about a thread for each away game as a stickie? Im sure it was me but I could just be dreaming of glory............

[NeilMcD]

Whoever thought of it is a genius

[John83]

Well, let's start with:

1. General
2. Team Talk
3. Matches

Would that cover most bases?

Most any list with "General" in it covers most bases.

I'd suggest making General appear third in the forums list. If it's first, people will kind of default into it inappropriately.

[NeilMcD]

Neil, would it be fair to say that the reduction in posts regarding helping each other arrange buses, coaches etc is directly related to the huge reduction in numbers travelling to the current qualifiers??? rather than the layout of the forums

Missed you in Sofia, spent most of the time in the Radisson...

I don't think that is the reason because YBIG is very strong in this area at the moment. More of an explanation would be that lots of people are using the YBIG site for many of the fans forum type activities. Why this is I am not sure100 percent but possibly the more relaxed atmosphere could explain it. I think everybody on YBIG is generally an active fan of the Irish football team. Lots of them/us go to the games both home and away. As has been previously said, foot.ie grew out of the LOI and as a result there are a smalle minority of members who contribute to the ireland forum who are openly hostile to the Irish football team and then there are others that do not know what its like to go to a game and just like to talk tactics etc which is fine. As a result it is moderated more strictly than say ybig as it has to deal with **** stirrers and people who are not actually fans of the Irish football team. This has eaten in to the culture of the forum and as far as I see it following the rules is more important than the community as dahamasta has said above. This makes it not conducive to a culture of an Irish fans forum and a community spirit. In simple terms it has probably become too PC in order to have equal rights, even if this results in genuine fans of the Irish team going OTT with those who are not fans of the team. This is not slagging anybody but just an honest explanation of what has happened and possibly why. Its only my opinion and I have nothin against any of the moderators and I do not have any personal agenda.

[MariborKev]

Neil,

I think there has to be an acceptance that foot.ie will not be all things to all people.

In my view it is far and away the best message board for domestic Irish football, as well as a great sections on many other topics. YBIG has a more narrow remit and does a fantastic job with it.

Also, you have got to remember that many of us have been involved in previous fans type initiatives(previous singing sections, protests against Delaney etc) and sometimes you just get tired of it after a while.

[irishfan86]

I would honestly go with:

International>Ireland Discussion (discuss player news, tactics, results, etc.)
------------>Ireland Supporters Forum (plan events, meet-ups, etc.)
------------>World Cup Discussion

It seems like a simple thing, but nobody wants to click on a sub-forum first, but if it's a separate part of the international section I can guarantee you more traffic.

[theworm2345]

Is this a feeling of a need to compete with YBIG I'm sensing? YBIG is a good site (used to be a great site, don't just take my word for it, ask gouldinho) and they are usually efficient (I say usually because of things like no one ever finding the sausage man, making the podcast, organizing the match against foot.ie, and maybe a few other things). I think the good folks who run YBIG have connections that people here do not have and most of the people who have been there a long time actually know each other so gettng things organized is easier for them. Are they a threat to foot.ie's traffic though? No, they are a different sort of site. Hell when I was still posting there (and I posted alot) I was spending as much time here as I was before I posted there and as I do now after I stopped and I'm guessing others are the same. If YBIG is good for the supporters of Ireland and doesn't hurt this site why would there be a need to change things here (unless, of course, the vibes I though I was getting were wrong, which is very possible, and the Fans Forum was overdue for a change anyway)?

If foot.ie wasn't for the most part pretty well put together would it be the most popular Irish footy forum? I'd say no, and while there is always room for improvement (perhaps the mods could loosen up a bit?) I say if ain't broke don't fix it.

Let me also say that if YBIG does start to grow to anywhere near the size of this site it will likely become alot less popular alot more quickly. I left there because, as I stated before, what I enjoyed was that you actually sort of knew what each poster was like and the jokes coming from there made it a whole lot funnier. When that started going out the window (my estimate is mid-November of last year, when there was a large influx of new members) I (and I know of a few others too) just didn't enjoy it as much anymore. If that continues I think the influx will just level out again.

I think there has to be an acceptance that foot.ie will not be all things to all people.

Hear, hear

[Claret Murph]

Most of the traffic on YBIG is about is about Ireland they get it right and people focus on that . On foot as has been said it started out as a LOI site and grew from that . When I first came on here a couple of years back the Galway United section was very active but today one would say it has died , why well easy really as we have our own site now and we find it easy to stay at that . Foot covers so much and if you football and other subjects then i think the site has been watered down ( may be not the right word ) I myself only visit the fans forum as a rule unless something other takes my eye on the board .
Again like I said if you are in the hardcore bunch YBIG would be more your kind of site and I don't think Foot can match that really as they stick to what they are best at .

[pineapple stu]

Well, let's start with:

1. General
2. Team Talk
3. Matches

Would that cover most bases?

I'd suggest "Away Days" instead of "Matches", just to avoid talk about the matches themselves and focus on the travel, arrangements, etc. (I know that technically leaves out home games, but still).

Under Ireland, you're either talking about the matches (and players), or about going to the matches, so I'd put General at the bottom alright and try and kepe it as quiet as possible. Unless General is to encompass what's now World Football.

What I might do as well is bring back the roll-call for away games. But as others have pointed out, cosmetic changes probably won't suddenly solve the initial post's points. It's just the way.

[paul_oshea]

International>Ireland Discussion (discuss player news, tactics, results, etc.)
------------>Ireland Supporters Forum (plan events, meet-ups, etc.)
------------>World Cup Discussion

there is not really much difference there though is there>?

Lads personally I WOULD NOT like to see Ireland the forum split into general, team talk etc. I think the current Ireland forum is fine. I even think Fans Forum is fine but its up to the fans - on this site- to start doing things....I personally hate the idea of loads and loads of sub forums. I think Ireland, all things to do with the international team is the best solution, as is the current solution.

whoops, just read stus post, stu ye stealer did i not say "away days"? I thought ye were suggesting breaking up the "Ireland" forum....