Catalonia march for independence

[NeverFeltBetter]

What does Catalonia secession look like in the aftermath of a vote like this? Will Madrid have to occupy the province with police?

[BonnieShels]

Pretty much what they would have to do. If they were reasoned in their response before now they wouldn't have to go down that road but watching the Guardia Civil attacking Firefighters and having a standoff with Catalan Police is certainly disturbing. Rajoy is certainly out of his depth.

The EU response will be telling. A lot of leaders around Europe nervous. Fair dues to Charles Michel (Belgian PM) coming out with something.

[BonnieShels]

Foreign Office response:

"The referendum is a matter for the Spanish government and people. We want to see Spanish law and the Spanish constitution respected and the rule of law upheld. Spain is a close ally and a good friend, whose strength and unity matters to us."

You couldn't make it up.

[DannyInvincible]

So the Spanish authorities doing their best to increase support-levels for Catalan independence.

Some disgraceful scenes coming in from Barcelona.

Shocking scenes indeed. It's crazy that the Spanish government think taking a hard-line will help, especially in the information age. History has shown time and time again that such an approach only increases sympathy and support for those being subjected to state violence.

Paradoxically, the clamp-down - an attempt to suppress the independence movement - has actually given it wider exposure, à la the Streisand effect, than it probably would have garnered had the government not been so intransigent.

[BonnieShels]

Absolutely correct. It smacks of sheer stupidity. I'm sure the reasoning was to corral protesters (voters) and get them to fight back legitimising force against them.

It's backfired spectacularly.

[BonnieShels]

Great website for keep up-to-date.

http://spain.liveuamap.com/

[DannyInvincible]

Colm Tóibín (who lives in Barcelona, to the best of my knowledge) with a good piece in the Guardian on the present situation and the region's fractured history with Madrid: https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...lan-separatism

Madrid is not itself prepared to make a detailed case against the vote being held, but rather is insisting that it is illegal, as though the law were something that could not be changed. It is curious also that Madrid politicians have not been travelling the length and breadth of Catalonia – as, say, Gordon Brown did in Scotland in the runup to the independence referendum there – to make the argument against the referendum and against Catalan independence. Why have these politicians stayed in Madrid? Why did we not hear from them on the independence question in Catalonia this summer? Why have they offered coercion rather than argument?

...

The success of the policy on language is the main reason why Spanish politicians have not been visiting towns and villages in Catalonia, and not speaking on radio or TV to make the case against the referendum. Catalonia, for them, has become terra incognita. If Rajoy or his attorney general were to visit the heartland, they would find that no one had heard a political discussion in the Spanish language before, and they would notice also a strangeness, a sense that they themselves were in a foreign country.

[BonnieShels]

Current update 2154:

Catalonia has 'won right to statehood'

Carles Puigdemont, Catalan’s leader, has announced that the region has won the right to independence following today’s referendum.

[BonnieShels]

From RTVE: Taking the Generalitat count as valid, with 95% of the votes counted, 90.09% of the participants voted Yes to the independence of Catalonia (2,262,424 votes) ; He has not harvested 7.87% of the votes (176,566) and there have been 40,686 blank ballots (2.03%) and 20,729 null votes (0.89%). It is striking that the sum of these percentages exceeds 100% of the votes; in particular, gives 100.88%.

[DannyInvincible]

The BBC reported that turn-out was 42.3 per cent. I'm guessing the Spanish government clamp-down affected turn-out quite a bit with the Catalan authorities claiming that 319 of about 2,300 polling stations had been shut down. The Spanish government counter-claimed that 92 stations had been closed.

Catalan officials have also claimed that more than 750 people were injured.

Meanwhile, Gerard Pique condemned the brutality of of the Spanish government and offered his resignation from the Spanish national team if his presence would be deemed problematic in a tearful interview after Barca's game against Las Palmas today (which was played behind closed doors in the Nou Camp): https://www.theguardian.com/football...n-independence

[nigel-harps1954]

Spains open training session met with abuse thrown in the direction of Pique.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017...ining-session/

[mark12345]

Most of all, I love how they show their support for each other by not singing their national anthem.

Would that perhaps be a reference to the players in America's NFL?

[osarusan]

That post is 5 years old, and was a just a joke then anyway.

[nigel-harps1954]

Would that perhaps be a reference to the players in America's NFL?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'm given to understand the ruling parties in Catalonia are prepared to declare independence from Spain on the back of the referendum, but how does that work out in reality? It seems they want the EU to step-in and mediate, but that seems unlikely to happen as the EU nations aren't recognizing the result. And when Spanish authorities - be they police or military - step in, will a proclaimed independent Catalonia defend itself? Sadly that might be the only way the EU or UN would finally intervene.