Player eligibility row

[geysir]

page 23

'If the IFA analysis were correct, it would follow that the first and third sentences would deal with the exactly same situation, which would (be) inconsistent with any intelligible intention to be attributed to the rule-maker'.

[Dodge]

Really makes the IFA out to be quite amateurish.

The FAI, on the other hand, employed a swiss lawyer who referenced the Swiss Civil Code. Impressive.

[ifk101]

In fairness, a gentlemen's agreement, by its nature is frequently unprovable, as it stands on both parties being gentleman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen's_agreement

True but the IFA in their appeal refer to the Gentleman's Agreement as the "1950 FIFA Ruling" and told the Court "that it was currently in the process of seeking a copy of the original ruling". But of the evidence produced, it is revealed that if there was a Gentleman's Agreement it was between FIFA and the IFA, as there isn't any evidence to show that the FAI was party to such agreement. And this "agreement" did not have the scope of application as preceived by the IFA.

Fast forward to 1999 and Jim Boyce the then IFA President is quoted as saying the following "The issue of Northern Ireland's eligible players opting to play for the Republic was discussed at length with the FAI. It was also stressed that if a player made an approach himself, there was little the FAI could do unless FIFA was to change legislation. That, we accept. But at least we have agreed to notify one another should this happen." Jim Boyle is also quoted as saying he is "delighted" with the outcome of these talks with the FAI.

If the Gentleman's Agreement of the 1950's existed as presented by the IFA, why would Jim Boyce be "delighted" with the outcome of talks between the two associations in 1999?

[geysir]

Page 23
79. 'The Panel noted that IFA also advanced an alternative argument that Mr Kearns had shared nationality because, as an Irish national (irrespective of his British nationality), he could play for either IFA or FAI and Mr Hunter asserted that it had always been the case that the IFA could select Irish nationals with a territorial connection to Northern Ireland. The absence of Irish nationality from the commentary on Annexe 2 is, he submitted, inconclusive. It was apparent to the Panel that the factual basis for the assertion was controversial and disputed by the FAI’s counsel. Since neither the factual nor legal basis for this argument was sufficiently established, the Panel is in no position to find in its favour'.

The correct answer is the IFA can only select British citizens for its representative teams. Yes it is a dual national statelet but it is still inside the UK, therefore only the British nationality is relevant to selection for the IFA teams.

[geysir]

In fairness, a gentlemen's agreement, by its nature is frequently unprovable, as it stands on both parties being gentleman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen's_agreement

Page 25 /26
88. In contrast to non-binding rules of conduct such as gentlemen’s agreements, contracts forming a binding agreement require the mutual agreement of the parties. Such agreement may be either express or implied (Article 1 of the Swiss Code of Obligations). There is an implied agreement only when the behaviour of the party alleged to have agreed is consistent only with its having done so. In general, a passive behaviour cannot be held to amount to an agreement to be bound by a contract (ATF 123 III 53, 59). In other words, silence does not imply consent (François Dessemontet, in Commentaire Romand, Code des Obligations I, Bâle 2003, p. 14, ad. Art. 1, N. 32).


Finally, the existence of a “contract implied by conduct” is denied by the FAI, which disputes that it has ever discussed the status of Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland or accepted that Irish citizens could not be selected for its teams, whether living in Northern Ireland or elsewhere. The contrary has not, in the Panel’s view, been established by the IFA. In any event the IFA’s evidence fell short of establishing the binding nature of the alleged agreement or the legal/regulatory basis which would allow it to supersede Articles 15 to 18 of the 2009 Application Regulations.

'In any event, the alleged tacit agreement may not be used to defeat the claim of Mr Kearns, who was of course not a party to any such agreement and who, in any event, is entitled to exercise his rights as provided under Article 15 and 18 of the 2009 Application Regulations.'

[geysir]

In a nutshell, IN ANY EVENT the alleged gentleman's agreement does not apply to Daniel Kearns.

[co. down green]

Seriously ****-poor journalism by BBC NI.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/9044215.stm

Hard to beleive that the guy who penned this article gets paid for a living!

[geysir]

'The Court of Arbitration for Sport has admitted that the ruling regarding N Ireland-born players opting for the Republic is "unfair" on the IFA.'


Where exactly do CAS state that the FIFA rules were unfair?
Simple answer is, they don't - not in the slightest.

[Dodge]

Page 23
79. 'The Panel noted that IFA also advanced an alternative argument that Mr Kearns had shared nationality because, as an Irish national (irrespective of his British nationality), he could play for either IFA or FAI and Mr Hunter asserted that it had always been the case that the IFA could select Irish nationals with a territorial connection to Northern Ireland. The absence of Irish nationality from the commentary on Annexe 2 is, he submitted, inconclusive. It was apparent to the Panel that the factual basis for the assertion was controversial and disputed by the FAI’s counsel. Since neither the factual nor legal basis for this argument was sufficiently established, the Panel is in no position to find in its favour'.

The correct answer is the IFA can only select British citizens for its representative teams. Yes it is a dual national statelet but it is still inside the UK, therefore only the British nationality is relevant to selection for the IFA teams.

And, the IFA refused to an agreement proposed by FIFA aloing those exact lines. The FAI were willing to agree that citizens of Ireland, regardless of where they resided, could play for Northern Ireland

[Dodge]

'The Court of Arbitration for Sport has admitted that the ruling regarding N Ireland-born players opting for the Republic is "unfair" on the IFA.'


Where exactly do CAS state that the FIFA rules were unfair?
Simple answer is, they don't - not in the slightest.

They mention that the "one way" system of NI lads being able to play for ROI but not the other way arund is unfair.

EDIT; page 21, Art 70.

And BTW I'm not for one second defending the article which seems to select a tiny morsel of comfort for the IAF in a pretty damning overall judgement

[geysir]

Not quite.
The Court is required to give an account of the evidence presented. Part of that evidence is documentation which preceded the compromise proposal. CAS do not interpret FIFAs rules as being unfair they simple state FIFA's reason for offering the proposal. Part of that reason was that the regulation resulted in unfair “one-way situation”.. This was FIFA wording at the time pre compromise proposal.

[Dodge]

Sorry, I misread your original post. of course the "unfair" comment was talking about the letters between IFA and FIFA

[SaucyJack]

Just seen that Preston youngfella Adam Barton pulled out of the NI full squad to keep his "Options Open"... Is he elligable for us??? Or is his "Option" England in this case??

It's his English option

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/irish/9044523.stm

[Stuttgart88]

OTF with him then.

[TrapAPony]

It's his English option
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...sh/9044523.stm

If he qualifies to play for Northern Ireland wouldn't that mean that he qualifies for us then?