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pineapple stu
14/08/2008, 12:15 PM
Who are the 6 you would drop/ask to merge?
At the rate we're going, the six clubs will pick themselves...
The FAI has contacted the Arkaga fund with regards to a written undertaking made by one of its companies to guarantee all liabilities arising from Cork City Investment FC Ltd for a twelve month period from 29th January 2008 through to 29th January 2009.
Presumably this is how Cork got around Licencing and the wage cap? With Arkaga guaranteeing all expenses over the season, they could spend what they liked? I'd imagine something similar is in force at Drogheda and Pat's too, if so.
jebus
14/08/2008, 12:17 PM
Still not obvious. I have never ever heard the words profit and football mentioned either in the context of an AIL or the EL or indeed anywhere else in the globe. In my experience clubs, at best, aspire to break even and thus that show a small profit in some years do so by accident rather than design.
Methinks your view is a bit clouded by your anti-AIL obsession.
Read the AIL proposal in full, they mention profit quite a few times, in fact they give it as their sole reason for entering the league. Might want to do a bit of reading before commenting in future eh?
Who are the 6 you would drop/ask to merge?
Personally I don't think there's much room for Galway :) Joke before anyone jumps on my back. I honestly don't know, it would be a hard decision either way and a lot of clubs and fans would be left upset. I'd look to drop Monaghan, Kildare, Cobh, ask Sporting Fingal to merge into Shelbourne and after that I don't know. People will say UCD, but given how well they are run, and the carrot of offering scholarships to part time players, I would look to keep them. I really don't know though, you could nearly make a case for dropping 75% of the teams in this league, Limerick included, so it would have to be up the FAI to make the hard decision
micls
14/08/2008, 12:18 PM
We are in the positionw e are in because of mismanagement, pure and simple. Clowns claiming to be professionals screwing us over.
having the highest attendances is irrelevant in this situation. It doesnt mean the league is screwed or that other teams have to go the same way. it means teams need to take a look and make sure it cant happen to them.
Run yourselves properly like Rovers or UCD
rebs23
14/08/2008, 12:25 PM
Feel sorry for the minority of Cork fans that show a bit of grace around here. The ones that sneer at clubs ranging from UCD to Galway to Limerick though, well it really couldn't have happened to a nicer set of supporters, so taking a leaf from their book all I'll say is that if Cork can't pay their agreed contracts then they're no loss to the league
Is it possible for you ever to keep your opinions to yourself?, Or do you honestly believe that anyone is even remotely interested in listening to your self opinionated rubbish?
pineapple stu
14/08/2008, 12:27 PM
Attack the post, not the poster.
charliesboots
14/08/2008, 12:28 PM
Is it possible for you ever to keep your opinions to yourself?, Or do you honestly believe that anyone is even remotely interested in listening to your self opinionated rubbish?
Think his comment was fair enough - don't know what his history is but I'd be of the same opinion.
Feel sorry for the genuine humble Cork fans but not for the sneering, jumped up majority.
jebus
14/08/2008, 12:30 PM
Is it possible for you ever to keep your opinions to yourself?, Or do you honestly believe that anyone is even remotely interested in listening to your self opinionated rubbish?
You're obviously interested in my take on the situation, why else would you quote me? Plus I thought forums were the place to air opinions?
OneRedArmy
14/08/2008, 12:31 PM
Read the AIL proposal in full, they mention profit quite a few times, in fact they give it as their sole reason for entering the league. Might want to do a bit of reading before commenting in future eh?
The word profit is mentioned once in 62 pages in draft v13. And its mentioned specifically in the context of why Platinum One themselves have gotten involved, it doesn't refer anywhere to the clubs themselves.
jebus
14/08/2008, 12:34 PM
The word profit is mentioned once in 62 pages in draft v13. And its mentioned specifically in the context of why Platinum One themselves have gotten involved, it doesn't refer anywhere to the clubs themselves.
Oh Lord God you're one of them aren't you? How are Platinum One going to make profits from a league if their clubs are going into recievership?
OneRedArmy
14/08/2008, 12:41 PM
Oh Lord God you're one of them aren't you? Someone who works in finance and understands the difference between a cashflow statements and a P&L and balance sheet? Why yes, yes I am!
How are Platinum One going to make profits from a league if their clubs are going into recievership?See above. Not making a profit does not equal receivership/examinership. Look at the cashflow statement, its a much better measure.
Clubs are and will always been run to breakeven and any surplus is inadvertent and is reinvested. Thats the nature of the beast and competition dictates that.
jebus
14/08/2008, 12:50 PM
Someone who works in finance and understands the difference between a cashflow statements and a P&L and balance sheet? Why yes, yes I am!
See above. Not making a profit does not equal receivership/examinership. Look at the cashflow statement, its a much better measure.
Clubs are and will always been run to breakeven and any surplus is inadvertent and is reinvested. Thats the nature of the beast and competition dictates that.
Why would a group like Arkaga, or Jack McCarthy at Limerick, or the Glazers at United ever get involved in a club if their sole motivation was to break even so?
Feel sorry for the genuine humble Cork fans but not for the sneering, jumped up majority.
Quite a fall from the moral high ground from some of them - first Europe, now financial problems.
Mental Man
14/08/2008, 1:05 PM
Good for Limerick. How life in Division 1 for the last 10 years?
I would be very careful with the words you choose, it could come back to bite you, anyway couldnt happen to a nicer set of supporters :D
I have to admit i do pity the few city supporters that are genuine ( but they are rare ):p
Mental Man
14/08/2008, 1:09 PM
Is it possible for you ever to keep your opinions to yourself?, Or do you honestly believe that anyone is even remotely interested in listening to your self opinionated rubbish?
OOOhhhhh touchy touchy today arent we for some reason :D , is the end nigh for rebel army dildo(sic) and his pubescent friends?
Mental Man
14/08/2008, 1:11 PM
Not a good day for the league at all, another reason for the barstoolers to jeer at !!!!
McShels
14/08/2008, 1:30 PM
ask Sporting Fingal to merge into Shelbourne
That is quite simply one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on a forum anywhere.
Why should any 2 clubs merge just to pack in 16 teams into a single league (an idea I will admit has some merits)?
I honestly don't think 2 leagues with 22 teams can be sustained in this country as, while there are a lot of dedicated LOI fans around, there is quite simply not enough people willing to go and watch live football not while they can sit on their barstools/armchairs and watch the English/Scottish/European leagues.
I believe a radical overhaul of the LOI is needed, but I dont think the FAI are the people to do it.
I think we should get Maxi to sort it out.........
rambler14
14/08/2008, 1:30 PM
Just think.................Limerick could be the only team in Munster next year!:D:(
passerrby
14/08/2008, 1:33 PM
Personally I don't think there's much room for Galway :) Joke before anyone jumps on my back. I honestly don't know, it would be a hard decision either way and a lot of clubs and fans would be left upset. I'd look to drop Monaghan, Kildare, Cobh, ask Sporting Fingal to merge into Shelbourne and after that I don't know. People will say UCD, but given how well they are run, and the carrot of offering scholarships to part time players, I would look to keep them. I really don't know though, you could nearly make a case for dropping 75% of the teams in this league, Limerick included, so it would have to be up the FAI to make the hard decision
ya lets get all the clubs who continously get into finanacial difficulty and are run by incompetants thats a great basis for selection and all those who are better run than limerick past and present have better facuilities that jackman park (thats not hard) and who by the way are above you in the table and exclude them
seanDCFC
14/08/2008, 1:42 PM
Are clubs in this league run by complete fukin morons, what do these people think when they do out their budget for the season? Do they think that if they throw money at the top players in the league that fans will suddenly flood through the gates. I hope that Cork get hammered for this because it's beyond a joke now, Cork should be taught a lesson and the lesson should be so severe that no club will want to follow in their footsteps, and waste money like they have been. Clubs like Cork, Bohs and all other clubs who are wasting money on ****e would be no big loss to this league. These clubs are not only making it difficult for themselves but they are making it difficult for everyone else in the league. I think that these clubs should live within there means or simply fck off out of existance.
That is quite simply one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on a forum anywhere.
Fine, get rid of Fingal so, there's no need for two clubs in that area, especially as neither of you are exactly packing the punters in. Their ground is better than yours though so I'd think about the merger if I were Shels
ya lets get all the clubs who continously get into finanacial difficulty and are run by incompetants thats a great basis for selection and all those who are better run than limerick past and present have better facuilities that jackman park (thats not hard) and who by the way are above you in the table and exclude them
Monaghan aren't above us in the league, and they get the same attendence as Kilkenny used to (maybe 20 people more), Limerick supporters outnumbered Monaghan supporters on one of our trips there this season, and Monaghan isn't a city. Hence Limerick in the long run > Monaghan in the long run
Schumi
14/08/2008, 1:46 PM
Their ground is better than yours though so I'd think about the merger if I were ShelsLOL. Morton better than Tolka??
LOL. Morton better than Tolka??
Yep, Tolka's good as well, but Morton Stadium looks like a proper stadium
The Lilywhites
14/08/2008, 1:48 PM
Monaghan aren't above us in the league
The table is lying, is it? :eek:
The Lilywhites
14/08/2008, 1:50 PM
Morton Stadium looks like a proper stadium
Catch a grip.
Magicme
14/08/2008, 1:50 PM
[QUOTE=jebus;1000003] I'd look to drop Monaghan, Kildare, Cobh, ask Sporting Fingal to merge into Shelbourne and after that I don't know. /QUOTE]
Cop yourself on would ya. It seems the only clubs without any problems are us, Dundalk and UCD so pull your horns in boy. Its getting sad the way some Limerick fans act like hard men and will go to any lenghts to have a go at Mons.
holidaysong
14/08/2008, 1:51 PM
It's about time we got an asterisk back in the league table! *
* May or may not happen this season.
holidaysong
14/08/2008, 1:53 PM
The table is lying, is it? :eek:
There's no point looking at the league table, sure it changes every week. :D
[QUOTE=jebus;1000003] I'd look to drop Monaghan, Kildare, Cobh, ask Sporting Fingal to merge into Shelbourne and after that I don't know. /QUOTE]
Cop yourself on would ya. It seems the only clubs without any problems are us, Dundalk and UCD so pull your horns in boy. Its getting sad the way some Limerick fans act like hard men and will go to any lenghts to have a go at Mons.
Pointing out your poor attendence is acting a hard man these days? Monaghan is a smaller club than Limerick, Monaghan is a smaller club than Limerick in potential, which of these statements isn't true?
The table is lying, is it? :eek:
Sorry, hadn't realised they'd gone a whole point ahead of us, why that proves their value to the league :rolleyes:
LeixlipRed
14/08/2008, 2:01 PM
Yep, Tolka's good as well, but Morton Stadium looks like a proper stadium
:eek:
OneRedArmy
14/08/2008, 2:06 PM
Why would a group like Arkaga, or Jack McCarthy at Limerick, or the Glazers at United ever get involved in a club if their sole motivation was to break even so?
Ego-feeding, power, visibility and adulation from fans. Everybody likes to be liked after all.
Glazer didn't get rich through sport, he made his wealth in real business before he bought Tampa Bay and United. Ditto Abramovich, the two fellas at Liverpool and almost every other example I can think of.
The only people who get rich in football are the players and agents (and the odd person who puts their hand in the till). The EL is no different really, except with smaller numbers.
WoodquayBoy
14/08/2008, 2:06 PM
it would have to be up the FAI to make the hard decision
And we all know how well their last decision regarding the make-up of leagues was received.
You can't drop UCD, and in fact, I think Galway, Cork, Limerick and Derry - and maybe the likes of Waterford - could learn a thing or two from them.
Such as: get the clubs in university/IT towns and cities to form a link with the third level institutes. Have a scholarship scheme in place, which would allow players to attend uni and play for the local LOI club.
I know there are probably a raft of reason why this won't work, but surely there are reasons it will?
For example, some American student wants to come to study in Galway. He can kick a ball. He goes to UCG (refuse to use that awful NUIG abbreviation) on a UCG/UNited scholarship, so he gets to study, and gets paid a few quid every week for playing for United, which would ease the financial burden on students.
Maybe I have been on too many funny pills, but surely it is worth conmsidering, especially as UCD, when it comes down to it, are THE example of how a club can be run on/under budget
Longfordian
14/08/2008, 2:07 PM
If Arkaga provided a written guarantee to underwrite the season's budget then what Cork are/were doing isn't very different to Pats who are relying on Kelleher's investment to fund their season and Bohs who are relying on monies coming from the sale of land. Now that Arkaga seemingly want out they should still be held to guaranteeing the liabilities incurred this season and it sounds like that's what the FAI want to do. Of course if they find other investors then they can assign this guarantee to them.
passerrby
14/08/2008, 2:07 PM
Fine, get rid of Fingal so, there's no need for two clubs in that area, especially as neither of you are exactly packing the punters in. Their ground is better than yours though so I'd think about the merger if I were Shels
Monaghan aren't above us in the league, and they get the same attendence as Kilkenny used to (maybe 20 people more), Limerick supporters outnumbered Monaghan supporters on one of our trips there this season, and Monaghan isn't a city. Hence Limerick in the long run > Monaghan in the long run
1. check the league table before posting
2. you do not have a pot to **** in (except maybe jackman park.. not a pot but a place to **** in)
3. your counties size has not helped you in the past so sholud not be allowed to look to this a plus.
and finnally limrerick supporterd have never outnumbered us a home but then maths have never been a strong point at limerick f.c.
I have to say I am disgusted at the attitude of some of the posters on here regarding the situation at CCFC (Jebus take a bow). As a Shelsman, I would like to say to all City fans - don't mind this petty sneereing and swiping. It's pathetic. Some people appear to be revelling in other clubs' miseries....very sad indeed.
OneRedArmy
14/08/2008, 2:08 PM
Are clubs in this league run by complete fukin morons, what do these people think when they do out their budget for the season? Do they think that if they throw money at the top players in the league that fans will suddenly flood through the gates. I hope that Cork get hammered for this because it's beyond a joke now, Cork should be taught a lesson and the lesson should be so severe that no club will want to follow in their footsteps, and waste money like they have been. Clubs like Cork, Bohs and all other clubs who are wasting money on ****e would be no big loss to this league. These clubs are not only making it difficult for themselves but they are making it difficult for everyone else in the league. I think that these clubs should live within there means or simply fck off out of existance.
Err glass houses, rosey gardens & any other relevant saying...
Do you know how much money we have in the bank?
OneRedArmy
14/08/2008, 2:09 PM
I have to say I am disgusted at the attitude of some of the posters on here regarding the situation at CCFC (Jebus take a bow). As a Shelsman, I would like to say to all City fans - don't mind this petty sneereing and swiping. It's pathetic. Some people appear to be revelling in other clubs' miseries....very sad indeed.I agree.
I'm nowhere near as happy with the Cork situation as I was when it happened to Shels.....
Glazer didn't get rich through sport, he made his wealth in real business before he bought Tampa Bay and United. Ditto Abramovich, the two fellas at Liverpool and almost every other example I can think of.
I understand that, but there's no way the Glazers looked at United and went 'I'd really like to pump millions into that place and come out with the exact same amount of money at the end, well hopefully I won't make a loss anyway, but sure who cares if I do!'
On the Morton/Tolka debate, I like both grounds, just prefer Morton is all
There is no doubt we are in serious trouble but some of the figures mentioned are exaggerations.
I don't think any City fans hide behind our finances in the past but we were told that Arkaga had budgeted on 1m loss. It is clear now they have not put that money in & some serious financial mismanagement.
I never expected Arkaga to make profits from CCFC just like the Glazers of this world. People buy football clubs because they think they can sell for higher price in years to some. I think Arkaga targeted a stadium down the line which would have increased the value of the club.
Maybe the FAI needs to look at a fit & proper person test for people to run League clubs?
I agree.
I'm nowhere near as happy with the Cork situation as I was when it happened to Shels.....
Is this supposed to be funny??:rolleyes:
1. check the league table before posting
2. you do not have a pot to **** in (except maybe jackman park.. not a pot but a place to **** in)
3. your counties size has not helped you in the past so sholud not be allowed to look to this a plus.
and finnally limrerick supporterd have never outnumbered us a home but then maths have never been a strong point at limerick f.c.
1. I will in future, doesn't change your Kilkenny style attendences however
2. Yes but our name hasn't been linked with the recent troubles now have they?
3. Our counties size should be included in any plans for revamping the league, for example, if Cork City go bust it is vital that a restructured LoI has another Cork team in the league, so one will have to be set up
4. Are you counting the old fellas in the bar that can't be bothered sticking their heads out the door to check the score? If so then you might be right and I'll retract that statement and push the Monaghan figures up a tad
rebelarmyexile
14/08/2008, 2:20 PM
With regard to income from gate receipts; when in Turners Cross 4200odd turned up to see Cork play Bohs (adults at €15 and Concessions @ €8) at an average of say €10 per head, less 500 or so season ticket holders, that would equate to an income of €38000 per home match plus whatever sponsorship and merchandising sales they make. They are prob taking in around 42-5k per home match.
Are their other income streams? How do clubs with lower attendences cope?
Magicme
14/08/2008, 2:22 PM
[QUOTE=Magicme;1000078]
Pointing out your poor attendence is acting a hard man these days? Monaghan is a smaller club than Limerick, Monaghan is a smaller club than Limerick in potential, which of these statements isn't true?
Sorry, hadn't realised they'd gone a whole point ahead of us, why that proves their value to the league :rolleyes:
Firstly if you took your head out of your rear long enough to read what I posted you would notice that I quoted you on a previous comment as I hadnt read your comment about our attendances at that point, but dont worry bout it love, no point in letting reality invade your wee world where the Jebus rant is sacred.
Secondly, yes we are a smaller club, no denying it. But I would rather us be a small well run club than a big mismanged one. We play football, pay our bills and develop our 14 acres to provide as much football as possible to the community while holding our own in the 1st division of the LOI. And you want to put us out of football? *pours some cold water on Jebus to wake him up to the real world*
Also when I said about some Limerick fans using every opportunity to have a pop at us and acting like hard men I wasnt actually referring to you for previous but maybe I should have been by your guilty sounding reaction!
As for the Cork thing, I for one am gutted another club is having a hard time but am glad that these things are coming to light at the same time so that there is a chance that the league can sort itself out and clubs start putting together realistic budgets for the future.
And we all know how well their last decision regarding the make-up of leagues was received.
You can't drop UCD, and in fact, I think Galway, Cork, Limerick and Derry - and maybe the likes of Waterford - could learn a thing or two from them.
Such as: get the clubs in university/IT towns and cities to form a link with the third level institutes. Have a scholarship scheme in place, which would allow players to attend uni and play for the local LOI club.
I know there are probably a raft of reason why this won't work, but surely there are reasons it will?
For example, some American student wants to come to study in Galway. He can kick a ball. He goes to UCG (refuse to use that awful NUIG abbreviation) on a UCG/UNited scholarship, so he gets to study, and gets paid a few quid every week for playing for United, which would ease the financial burden on students.
Maybe I have been on too many funny pills, but surely it is worth conmsidering, especially as UCD, when it comes down to it, are THE example of how a club can be run on/under budget
You're spot on. I've never understood why Galway and Limerick (for example) don't seek better link ups with their universities and colleges and provide scholorships as a carrot for potential part time signings. I've also never understood the attitude some posters have towards a well run club like UCD.
Any chance the Limerick guys and gals would take their little spat to another thread? The Cork thing is a very big issue for the league and while I'm as bad as anyone for dragging things off topic* it'd be better if this argument was had elsewhere.
*- The Simpsons isn't as funny as it used to be. Which is a pity.
bigmac
14/08/2008, 2:32 PM
Not good news for the league in general - never really understood Arkaga's motivation in going in there to be honest, will be interesting and probably depressing to see what comes out of it now.
Any chance we can move the Limerick/Monaghan thing out into the playground FFS :rolleyes:
*edit*
Snap! Synchronous posts Mr A
I'm not on about banishing the club to history, I'm saying if we were to restructure a league into 16 teams (22 or 20 is too much) then cuts would have to be made and the clubs cut would have to go to the senior leagues and work their way up in the pyramid structure. I personally think that there are 16 clubs that would be better suited to a restructured league than Monaghan, where's the problem? You must realise the First Division isn't working, you must know a 22 team league wouldn't work, so cuts would have to be made, no doubt you would have your own opinion on who should go
Not good news for the league in general - never really understood Arkaga's motivation in going in there to be honest, will be interesting and probably depressing to see what comes out of it now.
Arkaga were investing on behalf of a 'Corkman'. A 'Corkman' worth an estimated 500million who's now grown sick of his toy and couldnt care less what happens to his hometown club.
Arkaga were investing on behalf of a 'Corkman'. A 'Corkman' worth an estimated 500million who's now grown sick of his toy and couldnt care less what happens to his hometown club.
This is the worry for Limerick as well, that our Irish-American owner will suddenly not care that much about the Irish part and pull out
soccerc
14/08/2008, 2:44 PM
2. Yes but our name hasn't been linked with the recent troubles now have they?
Without going into any detail whatsoever, yes they have.
passerrby
14/08/2008, 2:47 PM
I personally think the cork problem coming to light now is a good think rather than one or two clubs getting into diifculties each year making the league look bad and nobody doing anything to address the underlyingl problems.at least now with so many clubs been flagged it may kickstart clubs/leagues and our association into really thinking outside the box for solutions instead of moving the deckchairs while we sink
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