Cork City Examinership

[LeixlipRed]

I agree.

I'm nowhere near as happy with the Cork situation as I was when it happened to Shels.....

Now now, don't be bitter about all those leagues you nearly won.

[jebus]

Without going into any detail whatsoever, yes they have.

Rumours, rumours and more rumours. I'm sure we do have money worries, I doubt there's a club in Ireland that doesn't, but until it's found that we are either shedding players like Galway did, or possibly winding up like Cork then it's not a crisis. I wouldn't be surprised if we were in serious trouble (I'm a Limerick supporter after all), but I also wouldn't trust the Limerick City rumour mill

[soccerc]

Rumours, rumours and more rumours. I'm sure we do have money worries, I doubt there's a club in Ireland that doesn't, but until it's found that we are either shedding players like Galway did, or possibly winding up like Cork then it's not a crisis. I wouldn't be surprised if we were in serious trouble (I'm a Limerick supporter after all), but I also wouldn't trust the Limerick City rumour mill


Uninformed, smugly jumping to conclusions and a climb down from your earlier posts.

[jebus]

Uninformed, smugly jumping to conclusions and a climb down from your earlier posts.

Eh? As far as I know Limerick are tipping along okay, I have nothing official to tell me otherwise and neither do you, all I'm saying is that past experience shows I could be wrong, so too could your rumour mill

Edit: I never trust junior supporters and their facts either, force of habit when you support Limerick FC I'm afraid

[OneRedArmy]

Now now, don't be bitter about all those leagues you nearly won.Haven't you sold the memories yet? You hocked everything else.

Anyway, I'm sure its something fond to look back at when you're facing the excitement of a North Dublin derby with Fingal.

[soccerc]

Eh? As far as I know Limerick are tipping along okay, I have nothing official to tell me otherwise and neither do you, all I'm saying is that past experience shows I could be wrong, so too could your rumour mill

RAFLMAO

Not one to attack a poster but would you ever get a grip, just because you don't have any knowledge doesn't mean it's a rumour, and for your esteemed mind, yes I do know.


As in my first post on this matter I'm not going to go into any detail :D

[seanDCFC]

Err glass houses, rosey gardens & any other relevant saying...

Do you know how much money we have in the bank?

I don't do the finances at Derry City so no I don't no how much money we have in the bank do you?

[Higgo]

Haven't you sold the memories yet? You hocked everything else.

Anyway, I'm sure its something fond to look back at when you're facing the excitement of a North Dublin derby with Fingal.

Bitter bitter people....take the chip of your shoulder. Whether you like it or not, the situation at City and formerly at Shels reflects very badly on the whole league. Should you be critical? Yes, by all means. Being smug....now that's just pathetic. :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

but until it's found that we are either shedding players like Galway did, or possibly winding up like Cork then it's not a crisis.
In fairness, that's what everyone slagged Shels fans for saying two years ago.

[OneRedArmy]

I don't do the finances at Derry City so no I don't no how much money we have in the bank do you?I have a fair idea based on what I've heard and being a shareholder and seeing the annual accounts, in addition to listening to the Chairman saying we're going part-time.

We don't have much, put it that way.

[jebus]

In fairness, that's what everyone slagged Shels fans for saying two years ago.

eep!


RAFLMAO

Not one to attack a poster but would you ever get a grip, just because you don't have any knowledge doesn't mean it's a rumour, and for your esteemed mind, yes I do know.


As in my first post on this matter I'm not going to go into any detail :D

Produce something of substance and I'll believe you, until then it's all just rumour

Is RAFLMAO internet speak for a heart attack or what?

[seanDCFC]

I have a fair idea based on what I've heard and being a shareholder and seeing the annual accounts, in addition to listening to the Chairman saying we're going part-time.

We don't have much, put it that way.

Therfore if our club is looking to go part time then we are obviously living within our means then as we see that professional is financially unsustainable at our club, so are cutting our costs accordingly. My point is that this is how clubs should be run, we've learned from our mistakes in the past. Unfortunately clubs such as Cork City, Bohs and Pats are likely to learn the hard way.

[gael353]

and finnally limrerick supporterd have never outnumbered us a home but then maths have never been a strong point at limerick f.c.

and maths obviously isnt yours. your average attendance over the last three years against us in Monaghan is about 60 with it split three ways between home/away/and family fans of players. In our two nil win over you recently you had 52 fans in the ground (60 playing on your astro turf pitches) of which 33 were from Limerick. so of 52 33 were limerick i think that makes it "more then monaghan". And although ive seen 150 and 175 for games againt us up there i have photos for the last three years of empty seats and an empty ground which is empty for a few souls.

[pineapple stu]

Is RAFLMAO internet speak for a heart attack or what?
Rolling Around ****ing Laughing My Arse Off?

Hard to tell with these youngsters.

In fairness, soccerc often doesn't tell stuff, but he often knows stuff too.

[/mysterious]

[WoodquayBoy]

until it's found that we are either shedding players like Galway did . . . then it's not a crisis.
Afraid I'm going to have to pull you up on that one. From MY point of view, it was not a crisis. It would have been a crisis if the club did nothing, but the fact it acted to slash its wage bill meant it averted a crisis.
As I said, just my own view, but isn't that what we are all here for, to give views and opinions and what have you

[jebus]

Afraid I'm going to have to pull you up on that one. From MY point of view, it was not a crisis. It would have been a crisis if the club did nothing, but the fact it acted to slash its wage bill meant it averted a crisis.
As I said, just my own view, but isn't that what we are all here for, to give views and opinions and what have you

Not according to some we're not :rolleyes:

Fair enough on the crisis point at Galway though, I know the club acted as best it could when the trouble arose and it would have been a lot worse had it gone unchecked, Cork City worse even

[fergalr]

Just asking again - does anyone know what are the current FAI rules regarding penalties for clubs going into examinership?

[Monkfish]

Also when I said about some Limerick fans using every opportunity to have a pop at us .

Only thing most of us have against you lot is the distance up there (honest)
our abuse of your Dublin squad on matchdays is on par with the abuse we give everywhere else (exept Dundalk, we like them) so get over it.

As regards the Cork situation, did I hear they owed a big chunk to the M.F.A.? surely some sort of arrangement could be met here (or am i way off the ball?)

As regards Limerick and money probs, we're scraping by, but our wage bill aint massive so neither can any debt, and as always we are never far away from complete meltdown.

That is all.

[Monkfish]

Just asking again - does anyone know what are the current FAI rules regarding penalties for clubs going into examinership?

Good question, any chance of points deductions at any point?

[passerrby]

([B]60 playing on your astro turf pitches

if we have 4 astro parks which are 5 a side courts now take of your shoes and socks and begin to count ...maths my boll**
and i remember the game well not a bottle of buckfast or cider left

[micls]

Good question, any chance of points deductions at any point?



Id imagine so, but tbh thats the least of our worries right now

[higgins]

Arkaga can't just run up debts and walk away from them.

As part of the licensing agreement you have to sign saying you are liable to any debts run up for that season.

They CAN'T walk away.
They can screw you over by not paying players on time and ruining your football club but they will have to pay for it at some stage.

However, IF those debts were that big when they arrived then I suppose it goes back tot he deal done between Lennox and Arkaga.

[pineapple stu]

As part of the licensing agreement you have to sign saying you are liable to any debts run up for that season.
I wonder how legal that agreement would be though? I'd be sceptical that an agreement with the FAI - who ultimately have nothing to do with it - wouldn't have a get out clause legally. All depends on what the piece of paper says though.

[passerrby]

Arkaga can't just run up debts and walk away from them.

As part of the licensing agreement you have to sign saying you are liable to any debts run up for that season.

They CAN'T walk away.
They can screw you over by not paying players on time and ruining your football club but they will have to pay for it at some stage.

However, IF those debts were that big when they arrived then I suppose it goes back tot he deal done between Lennox and Arkaga.

you maybe right but i suspect that the undertaken given by clubs to the fai at the start may not be legally binding. if a club does not have the finances then nothing can be done plus i dont know if the parent company can be made liable but as i said im not to sure.

[Shiba]

Wonder if points deductions may be levied.

I can't workout why this question keeps coming up at the moment.We all know the rules and that in the past clubs have been punished.Now is not the time for that discussion.The league is a real crisis,its time to consentrate on that or there will be no teams left to deduct points from.

[Longfordian]

The legal criterion in the Licensing is taken very seriously (not saying that others aren't) and I'd say there's very little wiggle room. All the documents submitted are reviewed by the FAI's legal affairs person, Sarah O'Shea I think is her name and from all reports she's thorough.

[pineapple stu]

What were they punished for though? Lying on their licencing in Rovers' case; not sending it in for Longford. Different case here.

[passerrby]

The legal criterion in the Licensing is taken very seriously (not saying that others aren't) and I'd say there's very little wiggle room. All the documents submitted are reviewed by the FAI's legal affairs person, Sarah O'Shea I think is her name and from all reports she's thorough.

yes but the contract is to sevice all depts that may fall due and can be paid but no law can make you pay what you have not got.

[Shiba]

I would be very careful with the words you choose, it could come back to bite you, anyway couldnt happen to a nicer set of supporters :D
I have to admit i do pity the few city supporters that are genuine ( but they are rare ):p

Cant understand how people can be happy with how things are going! Its the league we all enjoy.

[pineapple stu]

Cant understand how people can be happy with how things are going! Its the league we all enjoy.
It's unfortunate for Cork and their fans, but ultimately it's good for the league that this nonsense comes to a halt as soon as possible. Properly run clubs are getting ridden rock solid by clubs like Cork; hopefully that'll start to change. Not holding my breath just yet though.

[Longfordian]

yes but the contract is to sevice all depts that may fall due and can be paid but no law can make you pay what you have not got.

Arkaga have the money to pay any debts accrued by Cork, I'd be quite sure of that.

[passerrby]

Arkaga have the money to pay any debts accrued by Cork, I'd be quite sure of that.

I agree but they dont have to

[Longfordian]

They do, that's the whole point of their guarantee. If Cork can't pay Arkaga are responsible under the guarantee they provided to the FAI.

[mypost]

btw IIRC Rovers were deducted 9 points for submitting a dodgy set of figures (i.e. the same set as the year before) to the league, and went from +8 to -1 points. Rovers were not deducted points for going into administration, but I think the league might have brought in a rule after that, that you loose points if you go into administration ala what happens in England.

Clubs living beyond their means have only themselves to blaim. Offering 1000's a week to LOI players is not sustainable unless you average gate is close to 10K a week and no club to close to that at the moment!

As Plantini says "its the cheats who are winning"!

We were deducted the 8 points we had gained until that point, which brought us back to 1 following a draw at Pats on the night the punishment was applied.

In Germany, you're only awarded a licence if you're a members-owned club. Maybe that should apply here as well. :cool:

[wexfordseagull]

no one has mentioned it yet,but is the amatuer/part time club the only way to go at present?too much competition from the premier league on tv,leaving those who come to LOI matches occasionally with an unrealistic expectation of a professional full time LOI standard of games.in wexford people know we are amateur made up of local players that we hope will in time become a decent side,no unrealistic expectations,800 average crowds,small outgoings.i am looking forward to going to cork for the semi-final and hope that you can overcome your financial difficulties,good luck

[ORPCS]

Full-time summer football yes - but once LOI clubs start playing players more than €1300 a week, then its time to allow them to ply their trade in League 2 in England. It cant be sustained in this country (even with Cork being the best supported team in the country). Reality check required here.

[pete]

no one has mentioned it yet,but is the amatuer/part time club the only way to go at present?too much competition from the premier league on tv,leaving those who come to LOI matches occasionally with an unrealistic expectation of a professional full time LOI standard of games.in wexford people know we are amateur made up of local players that we hope will in time become a decent side,no unrealistic expectations,800 average crowds,small outgoings.i am looking forward to going to cork for the semi-final and hope that you can overcome your financial difficulties,good luck

How much is Wallace bankrolling you? Is he just putting money into facilities or day to day expenses?

I think some first division clubs need to be amateur based on very low crowds.

[stickyjoe]

It's unfortunate for Cork and their fans, but ultimately it's good for the league that this nonsense comes to a halt as soon as possible. Properly run clubs are getting ridden rock solid by clubs like Cork; hopefully that'll start to change. Not holding my breath just yet though.

best post in the thread & I hope Pats, Drogs and Bohs fans are taking notice of today and starting to ask questions themselves.

Feel sorry for some of the City fans but not for the majority that were happily jumping on Rovers and Shels graves over the last couple of years

[paudie]

All of a sudden Brian Lennox seems a business genius for keeping a succesful Cork City going single handed for a number of years without getting us into this kind of trouble.

[higgins]

I wonder how legal that agreement would be though?

I assume the FAI were not too happy with people like those at Rovers running up massive debts and just fecking off leaving a football club and its fans to foot the bill.
It was more or less a game and if you were voted in top dog you played the game and if you failed well tough sh!t just walk away.

That's changed.

Signatures were required this year so whoever signed for that at Cork City are liable for the debts run up. If they go unpaid then whoever signed will at some stage be chased for the money and taken to court I guess if it's not paid.

Arkaga CAN'T turn their backs on a debt. I'm fairly sure the FAI are correct with the statement they released today, they were talking about the agreement signed as part of the license process. If the creditors at Cork are going to sue then whoever signed that agreement is who they need to chase. It's simply not possible for them to leave and creditors not be paid due to Cork having no money.

Who or what signed that agreement is another thing !!

[sligo1]

I think the FAI have to take the blame for this one-I thought by sending in your figures every month would show whether a club was in breach of the 65% rule or not.Whatever deficit was there at the end of a month,that club should have lodged that amount to bring the figures back up to date.
To be honest the guarantee is not really worth that much-if Arkaga had the money they would have paid the debts and not let it go this far.
Is there any penalty for not paying your players or Revenue on time?

The bottom line is players are getting paid too much money.

[Calcio Jack]

I think the FAI have to take the blame for this one-I thought by sending in your figures every month would show whether a club was in breach of the 65% rule or not.Whatever deficit was there at the end of a month,that club should have lodged that amount to bring the figures back up to date.
To be honest the guarantee is not really worth that much-if Arkaga had the money they would have paid the debts and not let it go this far.
Is there any penalty for not paying your players or Revenue on time?

The bottom line is players are getting paid too much money.

From what's appeared in the media so far, I'm of the opinion that the so called legal agreement that the FAI have referred to ,won't be in any way enforcable... sure Arkaga might have buckets of cash...but methinks that the company which signed the 'legal' agreement is not Arkaga but a separate company (a subsidary of Arkaga)...and I'm guessing that company hasn't got a red cent, will be wound up shortly leaving a mass of debt.... anyone got any info to contradict my theory ??

[brianw82]

It just goes to show that if the sugar daddies pull out, the "big 4" are screwed.

There needs to be a radical financial rethink, and the FAI must show leadership in making it happen. Wages MUST be brought down.

[Magicme]

To be honest I cant think of any player in the league who is worthy of more than €1000 a week. The average industrial wage is around €680 a week so why should they get paid much more than that as "full time professionals"? I may be wrong coz just guessing butbBetween training, media/CPO committments and games they would only really "work" about 30 hours a week anyway so why give them big money.

Its time all players were played realistic wages so clubs can survive.

[OneRedArmy]

It's unfortunate for Cork and their fans, but ultimately it's good for the league that this nonsense comes to a halt as soon as possible. Properly run clubs are getting ridden rock solid by clubs like Cork; hopefully that'll start to change. Not holding my breath just yet though.Better to have tried and failed than not tried at all.

Obviously clubs need to be held to account and if it leads to extinction then the gamble (pardon the pun) has totally failed.

But I don't seem to remember many fans (including yourself) complaining too much in the coefficient threads over the past 5 years, when you were living vicariously through the successes of other clubs, which, with the benefit of hindsight, would appear almost totally down to unsustainable spending.

The subtext that I read in your post is an "everyone should be like UCD" mantra. Whilst that would probably be the most sustainable model, by God would it be boring.....

[Steve Bruce]

I think I would prefer to work within our means and hope to build up revenues to a point where my team can comfortably sustain a fully professional outfit. Shelbourne Gambled, it failed, Cork has gambled and it looks like it is failing.

The LOI is ahead of the IL and whilst we are not exactly rolling in money, our clubs are far more stable off the field than our counterparts in the LOI. If the LOI doesn't change it's ways, the majority of the league will go bankrupt and that would damage the product so badly that you may never get the crowds your hoping to attract.

[sonofstan]

8 pages in and nobody has attempted a joke about the 'Cork Examiner' yet....

[HarpoJoyce]

8 pages in and nobody has attempted a joke about the 'Cork Examiner' yet....

It's the one they call the Pauper

[OneRedArmy]

The LOI is ahead of the IL and whilst we are not exactly rolling in money, our clubs are far more stable off the field than our counterparts in the LOI. If the LOI doesn't change it's ways, the majority of the league will go bankrupt and that would damage the product so badly that you may never get the crowds your hoping to attract.I must have dreamt that Omagh had a team once and of course Coleraine are a rock of financial stability.

Off the top of my head, over the last 10 years, the Irish League is firmly ahead in winding up orders.

[passinginterest]

Interesting article in the Independent tries to shine some light on who are the owners of Cork City? (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/who-are-the-owners-of-cork-city-1456244.html)

It all sound like it could get very messy.