Derry City applying for Grant Aid

[MariborKev]

But it's hard to reconcile that with the fact that Derry City's chairman (not the chairman of some regeneration committee, but the football club chairman) are asking the Irish government for money also. Presumably this money is also for the regeneration of the Brandywell area also? In which case I'm not sure why the Irish government should be funding such a regeneration effort for a city that is at the moment in another country.

I am aware that there is a precedent for this with other dual-funded projects, however. It's been mentioned on this thread that there is cross-border money available, and Derry are looking for it.

Greenforever's point is that any money given by the government should be given through the FAI, in the form of a grant for the club, not for a regeneration project.

The current chairman of the club is part of the Brandywell regeneration group, Brandywell Properties Trust. The group must include members of the current football club board, as they are the major tenants. Pat McDaid was elected to the board in December 2007 and subsequently joined the board of BPT.

Osarun, plenty of clubs have got money out of the capital funding, not through the FAI.

[Demoshield]

Why? The club contributes to the exchequer of the UK and to the sporting culture of the Republic of Ireland. Why shouldn't they get aid from both governments?

Every other club contributes to the exchequer of the Republic of Ireland and to the sporting culture of the U.K.when they play in the Brandywell.Why shouldn't they get aid from both governments?????

[Greenforever]

You are missing the point.

The argument by people who are in favour of getting these grants is that the money is not just for the football club, but is for regeneration of the whole deprived area. And as a club located in Northern Island, who pays VAT on all their tickets etc, the club and area are entitled to money from the Northern Irish government. I fully agree.

But it's hard to reconcile that with the fact that Derry City's chairman (not the chairman of some regeneration committee, but the football club chairman) are asking the Irish government for money also. Presumably this money is also for the regeneration of the Brandywell area also? In which case I'm not sure why the Irish government should be funding such a regeneration effort for a city that is at the moment in another country.

I am aware that there is a precedent for this with other dual-funded projects, however. It's been mentioned on this thread that there is cross-border money available, and Derry are looking for it.

Greenforever's point is that any money given by the government should be given through the FAI, in the form of a grant for the club, not for a regeneration project.


Could'nt have put it better myself!

[kingdomkerry]

Who cares how an LOI club gets its funding as long as they get it and continue to improve facilities and standards

[Greenforever]

Who cares how an LOI club gets its funding as long as they get it and continue to improve facilities and standards

Would you be happy to see the FAI or the Irish gov give funding to Linfield?

[micls]

Would you be happy to see the FAI or the Irish gov give funding to Linfield?

Do Linfield pay taxes to the Irish government?

The IFA arent giving Derry money. The government which they pay their taxes to is.

If Linfield were paying taxes to us then I'd be grand with them getting grants

[Buller]

Would you be happy to see the FAI or the Irish gov give funding to Linfield?

Linfield dont play in the FAI league last time I checked...

[Greenforever]

Linfield dont play in the FAI league last time I checked...

Exactly the point made by Ealing Green at the very start of the thread, that as Derry City don't play in the IL why should they gat a grant from the IL.

My points are very clear:

A club is only entilted to state funding from the state in which they are located.

A club is only entitles to football funding (FAI, IFA) from the association to which they are affiliated to.

This is why Derry are in the unique position of being entitled to grant aid from the NI gov and the FAI.

[Greenforever]

Do Linfield pay taxes to the Irish government?

The IFA arent giving Derry money. The government which they pay their taxes to is.

If Linfield were paying taxes to us then I'd be grand with them getting grants

So you agree with my earlier posts.

[Tir Oilean]

£5million from each never gonna happen guys. No club has ever gotten that kind of funding in this country have they?

[Cosmo]

Every other club contributes to the exchequer of the Republic of Ireland and to the sporting culture of the U.K.when they play in the Brandywell.Why shouldn't they get aid from both governments?????

Exactly, this gives derry a very unfair advantage and the irish government should not be funding them, as theyre not under their juristiction. Obviously no problem with them getting funding from the UK

Mind boggling! Like even GAA Clubs from the 6 counties arent eligible to apply for funding under the irish governements sports capital programme as theyre not under the irish governments juristiction.

Good luck with the stadium, but an absolute disgrace seeing Irish taxpayers money going towards a stadium in the UK, which will no doubt be at the expense of irish clubs looking for funding who pay their taxes to the irish government :mad:

[Gather round]

Morning all, good thread.

In principle I've no problem with DC applying for and getting grants from Stormont, for the reasons described- they pay NI taxes like Stute or Crusaders. Nor even, potentially, that they get more than the others. It's a bigger ground than Drumahoe, the area costs more to redevelop, Belfast already has bigger venues with (hopefully) plans for another.

Similarly, DC are members of the FAI, so they can equally apply to it. But as others have said, the FAI is largely funded by the Dublin govt., so in practice they ARE applying to both governments, even if one payment would be indirect. Isn't there a possibility the club will be fobbed off by both referring to the other?

I can see one possible way out of the log jam- what does the panel think of Stormont investing in an 8-10,000 all seater municipal stadium in Derry, and then NI using it for some games to boost community relations? :)

PS can't speak for others on here, or Belfast people generally, but I've always used 'Bogside' simply as a shorthand for 'left bank beyond the walls'. With similarly 'Waterside' meaning the whole urban right bank. No slight intended either to them, nor other areas of the city.

[srfc1928]

The Irish government are currently running a regeneration programme of its own called RAPID (revitiliasing areas by planning,Investment and devolpement) Rapid targets 46 of the most disadvantaged areas of the country. The Programme aims to ensure that priority attention is given to the 46 designated areas by focusing State resources available under the National Development Plan. The Programme also requires the Government Departments and State Agencies to bring about better co-ordination and closer integration in the delivery of services.
An Area Implementation Team (AIT) was established in each of the 46 areas to develop a plan for their area. The AIT brings local State Agency personnel (Health Board, Local Authority, VEC, Dept of Social & Family Affairs, FÁS, etc) the local Partnership Company, residents of the local community and, where they exist, Local Drugs Task Forces, together to prepare a plan identifying the needs of each area.
Areas were selected on a number of key issues,
High Levels unemployment
Early School leaving
Lack of affordable accessible childcare facilities
High-level welfare dependency
Quality of housing stock
Increasing levels of anti-social behaviour
Absence of adequate youth facilities
Lack of sport & recreation facilities

The Sligo Showgrounds is situated in the middle of one of these disadvantaged areas, and on the basis of some of DCFC's criteria for funding should the Showgrounds not receive similar fundingconsidering the government are priortising these areas

[red bellied]

The Irish government are currently running a regeneration programme of its own called RAPID (revitiliasing areas by planning,Investment and devolpement) Rapid targets 46 of the most disadvantaged areas of the country. The Programme aims to ensure that priority attention is given to the 46 designated areas by focusing State resources available under the National Development Plan. The Programme also requires the Government Departments and State Agencies to bring about better co-ordination and closer integration in the delivery of services.
An Area Implementation Team (AIT) was established in each of the 46 areas to develop a plan for their area. The AIT brings local State Agency personnel (Health Board, Local Authority, VEC, Dept of Social & Family Affairs, FÁS, etc) the local Partnership Company, residents of the local community and, where they exist, Local Drugs Task Forces, together to prepare a plan identifying the needs of each area.
Areas were selected on a number of key issues,
High Levels unemployment
Early School leaving
Lack of affordable accessible childcare facilities
High-level welfare dependency
Quality of housing stock
Increasing levels of anti-social behaviour
Absence of adequate youth facilities
Lack of sport & recreation facilities

The Sligo Showgrounds is situated in the middle of one of these disadvantaged areas, and on the basis of some of DCFC's criteria for funding should the Showgrounds not receive similar fundingconsidering the government are priortising these areas

http://www.sligorovers.com/content/view/203/112/
Tuesday, 24 October 2006
The Chairman of Sligo Rovers Michael Toolan has welcomed the recent announcement that the club is to receive €120,000 in funding under the RAPID programme.
This programme is administered by the Department of Gaeltacht and Rural Affairs, and Mr Toolan thanked Minister O Cuiv for allocating the funding and commended Deputy Jimmy Devins, Senator Paschal Mooney and Senator Eamon Scanlon for their work in presenting and pursuing the club’s case.

‘This funding is a great boost, as it allows us to complete the development of two all weather mini-pitches at the rear of the ground. This will be a valuable facility, not just for the club, but the wider community, and represents another significant achievement in terms of our development programme.’

Mr Toolan paid tribute to Deputy Devins and Senator Mooney and Scanlon for their assistance to the club over the years. ‘They have been very supportive of Sligo Rovers through every phase of the Showgrounds development, from the construction of the new stand to the provision of the new all weather facility. With their continued input we are transforming the Showgrounds into one of the finest grounds in the Eircom League.’

I dont know if this money ever materialised or was used for something else but there definetely isnt two mini training pitches behind the railway end.

[Cosmo]

But as others have said, the FAI is largely funded by the Dublin govt., so in practice they ARE applying to both governments, even if one payment would be indirect.

Whatever payment they get from FAI will obviously be given by the government indirectly :(.

This is a very serious issue imo. Theres no way a club from the UK should receive funding towards sports stadium from the Irish governement (whether it be directly or indirectly) over clubs who pay their taxes to the Irish government :mad:.

[srfc1928]

Hi Red,
I know Rovers were succesful in their application for funding under the scheme, i dont know what has happened since. But 120,000 is a far cry from € 5 million

[Aaron]

Cosmo, where were you when Linfield and Institute received grants from the Irish government?

[Cosmo]

Cosmo, where were you when Linfield and Institute received grants from the Irish government?

I was never aware linfield or institute got grants off the irish government towards their stadiums? Any link to that?

If they did, it shouldnt have happened. Fact is theres a limited pool of money going towards sports stadiums each year in this country (the 26 county country!) and none of that should be going towards sports stadiums in a different country who dont pay any taxes here

[passerrby]

I think if DEFC are relying on this plan for their future they are in big trouble and better have a backup plan ready I dont know to much about there chances of getting five mill from the northern authories (poor at best) but they have no chance of getting that money from the irish goverment.
but best of luck anyway

[Bucky-O'Hare]

I think some of you people really should dry your eyes and question your own clubs for not being as proactive as Derry in applying for funds. There's every chance that we won't get a cent from either side but if we do then get over it!

[Terry]

not going to read through all 6 pages, but, fair play to Derry and best of luck. The worst that can happen is that they will be told NO ! They should also ask both national lotteries for fundings also given the situation they are in. I would hope that if GUFC were in the same position that they would do the exact same.

[Greenforever]

I think some of you people really should dry your eyes and question your own clubs for not being as proactive as Derry in applying for funds. There's every chance that we won't get a cent from either side but if we do then get over it!


They will get grants from both NI gov and the FAI as they seem to have ensured they meet the requiremnts laid out, and in this case it's pretty automatic to get funds, the only question being HOW MUCH.

As they have applied for the sun moon and stars they just might get the sun!! best of look to them

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Fair play to Derry. Can't see what the problem is; the arguments against them applying for all possible available funding smell very sour and tabloidy.

I'm delighted Derry are in the FAI; apart from what they bring to the league, it serves to highlight the ridiculousness of the existence of two associations in this country. More power to anything that heaps farce upon that situation.

I hope they get stg£20million and any club who objects get fined.

[pól-dcfc]

I think it is absolutely unbelievable that there are Irish football fans complaining about one club getting a bit of money to improve facilities. If it were any other club getting any amount of money from anywhere, I'd be behind them 100%. Money to improve footballing infrastructure in this country should be welcomed by all.

On another point, the majority of the people of Derry are or consider themselves (if they don't have a passport) Irish Citizens. Why shouldn't our Government help us out? It sickens me to see a crowd from Drogheda etc coming on here preaching at us about the UK.

[Cosmo]

I think it is absolutely unbelievable that there are Irish football fans complaining about one club getting a bit of money to improve facilities. If it were any other club getting any amount of money from anywhere, I'd be behind them 100%. Money to improve footballing infrastructure in this country should be welcomed by all.

On another point, the majority of the people of Derry are or consider themselves (if they don't have a passport) Irish Citizens. Why shouldn't our Government help us out? It sickens me to see a crowd from Drogheda etc coming on here preaching at us about the UK.


A crowd from drogheda? Ive only seen one drogheda supporter say anytthing in this thread. You'd want to cop yourself on, the fact is that you are in the UK. And I hope you get as much as you can going that route. Seriously, I really hope you get the funding for what you want to get done.

But the fact of the matter is (and I repeat myself), theres a limited pool of money going towards sports stadiums each year in this country (the 26 county country!) and none of that should be going towards sports stadiums in a different country who dont pay any taxes here. Why should a club who pay their taxes to the queen get money over a club in the republic of ireland? They shouldnt even be eligible to apply, never mind succeed in getting the money

[micls]

But the fact of the matter is (and I repeat myself), theres a limited pool of money going towards sports stadiums each year in this country (the 26 county country!) and none of that should be going towards sports stadiums in a different country who dont pay any taxes here. Why should a club who pay their taxes to the queen get money over a club in the republic of ireland? They shouldnt even be eligible to apply, never mind succeed in getting the money

Derry City are members of the FAI, just like Drogheda, City or anyone else.

They have as much right to money off the FAI as anyone else, they pay their membership fees, play in competitions, represent us in Europe etc etc.

Where the FAI get the money from is irrelevant.

[Cosmo]

Derry City are members of the FAI, just like Drogheda, City or anyone else.

They have as much right to money off the FAI as anyone else, they pay their membership fees, play in competitions, represent us in Europe etc etc.

Where the FAI get the money from is irrelevant.

Its 100% relevant

[micls]

Its 100% relevant

How? What about money the FAI get from areas other than the FAI? Can they give that to Derry?

Derry City deserve moeny from the FAI just as much as any other club. They're membership is just as valid as everyone elses

[Cosmo]

How? What about money the FAI get from areas other than the FAI? Can they give that to Derry?

Derry City deserve moeny from the FAI just as much as any other club. They're membership is just as valid as everyone elses

They can do what they want to do with other money they have - but theyll have to explain that to the other clubs as im sure questions would be asked.

If its government money, theyre not eligible - end of story. Look at the guidelines for the irish governments sports capital programme and you will see that

[micls]

They can do what they want to do with other money they have - but theyll have to explain that to the other clubs as im sure questions would be asked.

If its government money, theyre not eligible - end of story. Look at the guidelines for the irish governments sports capital programme and you will see that

If the government is giving a grant to the FAi, its the FAI that have to be eligible...which they clearly are. Unless the government have earmarked the grant for a specific project, the money is the FAI's to decide who deserves it

Also your point is clearly untrue as 2 Irish league clubs ave been given grants previously. So they clearly are eligible. Whether they shoudl get it or not is another matter

[shantykelly]

A lot of complaining being done here about a northern based football club getting money to improve recreational facilitities in one of the most deprived areas of both the UK and the Republic of Ireland. A lot of statements saying that we aren't entitled to it. yet I dont see any gurning being done about the road improvements on the derry-dublin road that are going to be funded by the IRISH GOVERNMENT. and they will cost a whole hell of a lot more than 5 million, be it GBP or Euro. Nor do I hear any complaining being done by anyone regarding money being provided to the whole list of northern bodies as listed by dcfcsteve earlier in this thread, including the Orange Order.
I fail to see why everyone is complaining over this. reading to some of the arguments on here, it seems some posters on this board think derry shouldnt get any funding at all.
EG doesnt want us to get funding from stormont because we dont play in their league. some southern posters dont want us to get funding from the irish government because we're not based in the republic of ireland, although a five minute drive from the brandywell will have you across it. the border seems to be a tangible thing for many people who live in counties (north and south) that arent adjacent to this imaginary line on a map, but for those of us who do live beside it and have to deal with it on a day and daily basis, it is merely an anachronism that has unfortunately resulted in the entire north west region (and i include inishowen in this) being neglected by dublin, london and belfast. if you dont like an organisation applying for funding from both jurisdictions, then contact your local TD/MLA/MP, and get all cross border funding eliminated. f*****g west brits.

[pól-dcfc]

A crowd from drogheda? Ive only seen one drogheda supporter say anytthing in this thread. You'd want to cop yourself on, the fact is that you are in the UK. And I hope you get as much as you can going that route. Seriously, I really hope you get the funding for what you want to get done.

But the fact of the matter is (and I repeat myself), theres a limited pool of money going towards sports stadiums each year in this country (the 26 county country!) and none of that should be going towards sports stadiums in a different country who dont pay any taxes here. Why should a club who pay their taxes to the queen get money over a club in the republic of ireland? They shouldnt even be eligible to apply, never mind succeed in getting the money

A crowd from Drogheda etc as I said in my original post. You'd want to get those specs checked out. As for us not contributing the the RoI economy, you should know that that is total bull****. The money Derry and it's supporters spend in the South with our sizeable travelling support contributes to RoI taxes.

And its not a case of us getting money over a club in the South. We just bloody applied. Maybe if other clubs got their finger out and asked the Govt or the FAI they'd get a bit of dough too.

[dcfcsteve]

Whatever payment they get from FAI will obviously be given by the government indirectly :(.

This is a very serious issue imo. Theres no way a club from the UK should receive funding towards sports stadium from the Irish governement (whether it be directly or indirectly) over clubs who pay their taxes to the Irish government :mad:.

But roads, Police Schools, 'cultural organisations' etc are ok to receieve funding...? :confused:

Fortunately the government in Dublin doesn't mimic your partitionist leanings..

What's next to feel Cosmo's partitionist wrath - the thousand of Donegal kids who've been educated in Derry schools for free over the decades since partition ? No, wait - it's only when benefits leave the south that his sensitivities get challenged.....

[dcfcsteve]

A crowd from drogheda? Ive only seen one drogheda supporter say anytthing in this thread. You'd want to cop yourself on, the fact is that you are in the UK. And I hope you get as much as you can going that route. Seriously, I really hope you get the funding for what you want to get done.

But the fact of the matter is (and I repeat myself), theres a limited pool of money going towards sports stadiums each year in this country (the 26 county country!) and none of that should be going towards sports stadiums in a different country who dont pay any taxes here. Why should a club who pay their taxes to the queen get money over a club in the republic of ireland? They shouldnt even be eligible to apply, never mind succeed in getting the money

Cosmo - look on any money we get as a delayed fine for the physical and enotional damage caused by one of your players taking a p!ss at the side of the Brandywell pitch in full view of men, women and children...

Now run along...

[geysir]

A crowd from Drogheda etc as I said in my original post. You'd want to get those specs checked out. As for us not contributing the the RoI economy, you should know that that is total bull****. The money Derry and it's supporters spend in the South with our sizeable travelling support contributes to RoI taxes. .
I wondered about that, sounds like a gross exaggeration. Derry fans, wild guess, 25k - 30k per season, you fill up before the you hit the Free State, bring your own beer and sandwiches, make a racket then feck off home, sometimes with the points.
Now the Republic is donating £320m for a nice new A5 for you, so you can cruise all the way from from Derry to Aughnacloy. And how many signs will you drive by thanking the people of the Republic for their generosity?
It would be nice if you subvention junkies would say thanks now and again:)

[dcfcsteve]

you fill up before the you hit the Free State, bring your own beer and sandwiches, make a racket then feck off home, sometimes with the points.

The fact that half of the city-side of Derry queues up at the petrol stations in Muff and Bridgend every single week of the year (more frequently for taxi drivers) to fill their cars shows that you haven't got the first clue of what you're talking about..... :rolleyes:

Just what this debate needs - another ill-informed Free Stater with partitionist leanings.....

[pól-dcfc]

I wondered about that, sounds like a gross exaggeration. Derry fans, wild guess, 25k - 30k per season, you fill up before the you hit the Free State, bring your own beer and sandwiches, make a racket then feck off home, sometimes with the points.
Now the Republic is donating £320m for a nice new A5 for you, so you can cruise all the way from from Derry to Aughnacloy. And how many signs will you drive by thanking the people of the Republic for their generosity?
It would be nice if you subvention junkies would say thanks now and again:)

You really don't have a clue, do you? Derry fills up in Donegal. Millions upon millions must go to the Republics coffers from the daily lines of cars waiting to fill up in Donegal.

[ORPCS]

Good luck to Derry and their Grant Application. They should stick the arm in as much as possible. If the govt wants to furnish the City of Lisburn with a national stadium costing £90million , then £5 million for a revamped Brandywell is entirely proprtionate.

The government has promised IL clubs further funding once the IFA gets its house in order - Derry shouldnt suffer too because they happen to play in a more professionally run league.

[Gather round]

Good luck to Derry and their Grant Application. They should stick the arm in as much as possible. If the govt wants to furnish the City of Lisburn with a national stadium costing £90million , then £5 million for a revamped Brandywell is entirely proprtionate


Heh. It isn't in the 'city' of Lisburn, but a field three miles away with no facilities to drive in or out easily, catch a train, or eat and drink. It would cost well over £240 million, not £90 million. And most rumour coming out of Stormont, Windsor and DUP HQ suggests it's about to be abandoned , not before time.

As Green forever says above, if DC have completed the application as required then they should get some money from Stormont. If it was £5 million, what exactly would that go on- it seems modest for wider urban development outside the stands.

[Calcio Jack]

Just what this debate needs - another ill-informed Free Stater with partitionist leanings.....[/QUOTE]

Must be great to be so perfect....me I love being a Free Stater and happy that my club gets it's grants/stadium from a Government body which I've partly funded via my tax contributions over the years.... still if my Govt. wishes to give Derry City a dig out, then whilst i don't agree with it, so be it, guess that's the price we pay to live in a democracy.

[geysir]

You really don't have a clue, do you? Derry fills up in Donegal. Millions upon millions must go to the Republics coffers from the daily lines of cars waiting to fill up in Donegal.
No wonder the Northern Exchequer is running on fumes.
Maybe you are serious, maybe you're not.
I wasn't.

I don't know much about the £15m plan. I'd suspect that there been some behind the scenes negotiations with both NI and Irish Gov departments and an agreement of sorts already gained to go 50/50 on the 66% funding of the DC fc development.


.

[EalingGreen]

How come when anyone posts in a contentious topic like this, he often has to spend time defending himself over what he doesn't think, or hasn't said, rather than what is actually in his posts? :rolleyes:

At no time since I started this thread have I e.g. denied or defended DCFC's deplorable treatment by the IL during the 1970's. But neither have I been in any way sectarian or bigoted in any post, something which I find grossly offensive, especially when coming from people who know nothing about me or my views on religion/politics. (Thanks, Kristic, Pol etc).
Neither am I blaming DCFC for other NI clubs being chronically underfunded (DCFC Steve).
I'm not saying the Dublin Government can't give money to whoever they like.
Nor do I "blame" DCFC for making an application to anyone who might be able to help, nor that their application is not frivolous and ill-thought out.
Nor do I ever object generally to seeing football clubs getting Government help; how could I? I'm a fan as well as a taxpayer myself.
As for this stuff about Dublin paying for roads etc in NI - I fail to see what that has to do with football, since this comes from entirely separate budgets, and is applied to entirely non-footballing purposes.

However, I do object on a number of serious grounds, which DCFC fans, in their haste to complain about me, are mostly ignoring or dismissing without much more reasoning than "We want the money, we're entitled to it, we've been hard done by in the past, so anyone who objects is a nasty bigot who can just f cuk off"

In fact, it is this sense of "entitlement", fuelled by historic grievances which (imo) are no longer relevant, which causes me to consider that DCFC are overstating their case on this one.

Specifically, this has the following elements.
1. The amounts being sought. I know people have brought up Institute FC receiving funding for floodlights fromn Dublin, but how much are we really talking about? £50k? That comes to 1% of what DCFC are seeking from Stormaont alone, or 0.5% when Dublin is added in. When you consider just how starved IL clubs have been in the past, this is bad enough, but does anyone seriously think that if/when other clubs in NI were to apply for anything similar, that they would get it? Or that e.g. Linfield or Glentoran would get £5m from Dublin? Someone mentioned LFC receiving an unspecified sum, on some unspecified date from Dublin in the past. But all I can think of is that this was in conjunction with work they are doing with Dundalk on a cross-border basis ("Dunfield").
2. DCFC fans keep bringing up the circumstances of their leaving the IL for the Eircom. Fair enough, they deserve sympathy over this but frankly, those days are long past. Their unique circumstances have been addressed by their being allowed to benefit from an unique case (for Ireland) of residing in one country, but playing in the other country's League.
3. However, by seeming to feel they're entitled for grant aid from two Governments and maybe even two Football Associations, this is far greater redress than is justified (imo) and would surely be a case of "the pendulum swinging too far the other way". If nothing else, it would give them an unfair advantage over all other clubs on the island, even greater than that other perennial bone of contention, Linfield's soaking of the IFA over the rental of Windsor for internationals. (Or does my anger over this make me a Prod-hating bigot, as well as a fenian-hater? :eek:). On which point, I will risk further shouts of "Bigot", by pointing out that if DCFC were to apply to rejoin the IL, then their case for substantial grant-aid from Stormont and/or the IFA would be immeasurably greater (imo). [At which point, before some of their fans' heads explode, I should reiterate that I hold no grudge against DCFC for joining the Eircom, or sticking with it even after they would be welcomed back into the IL]
4. In making their case for regeneration of the area, providing jobs etc, that's all very well, but for all that they point to deprivation around the Brandywell etc, is it really any worse than that around many other NI clubs? In the end, these are issues which imo should be sorted out by the appropriate agencies, charities, Govt.bodies etc. But even if you disagree, how much of this money being claimed will actually go towards housing, jobs, education, welfare, training etc? And how much will go towards building grandstands and covertly subsidising/releasing other funds for players' wages? I've no doubt that a lot of good things will be done with this money if allocated, but in the end, DCFC is a football club, and one which seeks to be a profitable, commercial venture (as is only proper). I am on the record as being utterly opposed to the proposed stadium at the Maze for a host of reasons, but at least I can see how there could be a benefit, however overpriced and overrated, for the whole of NI, rather than one individual club or organisation.
5. Which brings me to the aspect which most concerns me. At the end of the BBC Report, the DCFC Chairman was quoted as saying:
"If we don't get it [i.e. the funding], it's going to case serious problems as regards full-time football in Derry".
I'm sorry, but it should not be for Governments to subsidise f-t football, in Derry or anywhere else. In the end, if the city, either as part of the FAI set-up (or back in the IFA set-up) is incapable of supporting a full-time team, then it is not for the taxpayer to do so, or for the other clubs to sustain a correspondingly reduced share for themselves from the overall pot for football.

[kingdom hoop]

So your biggest concern is Pat McDaid's negotiation stance? :rolleyes:

[osarusan]

So your biggest concern is Pat McDaid's negotiation stance? :rolleyes:

Have you read the rest of the thread?

Ealing Green's stance is perfectly reasonable in my opinion.

[geysir]

5. Which brings me to the aspect which most concerns me. At the end of the BBC Report, the DCFC Chairman was quoted as saying:
"If we don't get it [i.e. the funding], it's going to case serious problems as regards full-time football in Derry".
I'm sorry, but it should not be for Governments to subsidise f-t football, in Derry or anywhere else. In the end, if the city, either as part of the FAI set-up (or back in the IFA set-up) is incapable of supporting a full-time team, then it is not for the taxpayer to do so, or for the other clubs to sustain a correspondingly reduced share for themselves from the overall pot for football.
Who said it was the responsibility of any Gov to subsidise ft soccer in Derry? Certainly not the DCFC chairman. If that is your biggest concern, you haven't much of an argument.
But you would be the last person to realize that, if at all.

[EalingGreen]

So your biggest concern is Pat McDaid's negotiation stance? :rolleyes:

There is a big difference between a "negotiating stance" [do you mean "tactic"] and a sense of unjustifiable entitlement i.e. we'll have to go part-time if the two Governments don't bale us out with taxpayers' money.

Especially so when I suspect that that is his primary reason for this huge application, rather than the regeneration etc which may or may not accrue as a by-product.

P.S. That is my main concern, but it's hardly the only one. Did you read the rest of the post? Or am I only allowed one?

[MariborKev]

4. In making their case for regeneration of the area, providing jobs etc, that's all very well, but for all that they point to deprivation around the Brandywell etc, is it really any worse than that around many other NI clubs? In the end, these are issues which imo should be sorted out by the appropriate agencies, charities, Govt.bodies etc. But even if you disagree, how much of this money being claimed will actually go towards housing, jobs, education, welfare, training etc? And how much will go towards building grandstands and covertly subsidising/releasing other funds for players' wages? I've no doubt that a lot of good things will be done with this money if allocated, but in the end, DCFC is a football club, and one which seeks to be a profitable, commercial venture (as is only proper). I am on the record as being utterly opposed to the proposed stadium at the Maze for a host of reasons, but at least I can see how there could be a benefit, however overpriced and overrated, for the whole of NI, rather than one individual club or organisation.
5. Which brings me to the aspect which most concerns me. At the end of the BBC Report, the DCFC Chairman was quoted as saying:
"If we don't get it [i.e. the funding], it's going to case serious problems as regards full-time football in Derry".
I'm sorry, but it should not be for Governments to subsidise f-t football, in Derry or anywhere else. In the end, if the city, either as part of the FAI set-up (or back in the IFA set-up) is incapable of supporting a full-time team, then it is not for the taxpayer to do so, or for the other clubs to sustain a correspondingly reduced share for themselves from the overall pot for football.


Ealing Green,

The first three points are as you say a defence of what has gone before. Only points 4 and 5 are specific to this.

4. The economic appraisal produced by a third party is available- have a search for it. Within this comprehensive report the context of the area is comprehensively set. It sets out the levels of deprivation within the area, and surrounding area, using the statuatory measurements.

The whole reason the thing is costs so much is that BPT have to fufil the council brief, which was for the whole site, not just the pitch. The handy thing would be to retain as little of the 13 acres as required, then sell off the rest. Due to the issues surrounding the Honourable the Irish and the brief given by the council, this is not possible. Hence they have opted for a comprehensive regeneration project. The last I saw there would be 100 construction jobs and 50 full time jobs outside of the football club created by the project.

The stadium at the Brandywell will benefit the entire area, not just the football team. Hence the plan to include elements of the PfS scheme etc. The third generation pitches will be available to community groups for usage. One only has to look at the cross sport usage of 3rd generation pitches anywhere on this island to see the potential.


5. I can see where you are coming from, and I agree it is a poor quote.

However I think it is obvious to see what he means. We are hamstrung in what we can offer sponsors etc in the current stadium, and this means that we can't maximise our commercial potential. This means that volunteers are busting their balls to keep the club competitive.

Look at the facilities that even the Glens can offer compared to Derry. I have been in for a pre match function before the Setanta game and it was light years ahead of what we have got.

As you say, it is up to the club to make full time football viable.

[osarusan]

Who said it was the responsibility of any Gov to subsidise ft soccer in Derry? Certainly not the DCFC chairman.

From Ealing Green's opening post on this thread - a direct quote from McDaid.

"If we don't get it, it's going to cause serious problems as regards full-time football in the city of Derry."

If Derry are having trouble sustaining first team football by themselves, I don't think cash handouts are the best way to remedy the situation - in fact, I don't think it is a remedy at all.

And, if this is all about the regeneration project, as the Derry fans keep saying, why is McDaid talking about full-time football at all? How is it connected to the regeneration project to create employment and facilities in the Brandywell area?



However I think it is obvious to see what he means. We are hamstrung in what we can offer sponsors etc in the current stadium, and this means that we can't maximise our commercial potential. This means that volunteers are busting their balls to keep the club competitive.

Maribor, thanks for a reasoned response. I agree with all of the above quote, but I don't anybody could say Derry are unique in this regard.

[EalingGreen]

Who said it was the responsibility of any Gov to subsidise ft soccer in Derry? Certainly not the DCFC chairman. If that is your biggest concern, you haven't much of an argument.
But you would be the last person to realize that, if at all.

If that wasn't the clear implication of mcDaid's comment, why did he say it? Without this grant aid, there is no reason why a lesser sum could not be adequate to bring the Brandywell up to the level, say, of Solitude or Shamrock Park, or even Mournview, after their current renovations, which are being achieved with considerably less public money than DCFC feel entitled to.

Why should DCFC get NI taxpayers money in order to allow them to "keep up with the Jones's" in the Eircom League? Why should they get ROI taxpayers money to redevelop a club in an area outwith Dublin's jurisdiction?

If they want to compete with the Eircom, they should do so on the same terms as the other Eircom clubs i.e. assistance from one Government, one Association.
Otherwise, if they are to be treated as an NI club, then the same conditions should prevail as are applied to other NI clubs. of course, this latter might mean their having to go part-time. And we couldn't have that, could we? :eek:

[Gather round]

1. The amounts being sought

How does DC's £5 million bid compare with those from IL clubs (most of whom will have smaller grounds, likely needing less cash to fully refurb them)? What's the likely total budget? Whether you, I and other IL/ NI fans like it, Derry fans and others will look at the White Elephant Maze cost estimates, and think their own are very modest.



2. DCFC fans keep bringing up the circumstances of their leaving the IL

Agreed this is no longer really relevant. Everyone agrees DC were badly treated and resolution too long delayed- but playing in FAI and UEFA competitions IS that resolution. Let's move on :)


3. However, by seeming to feel they're entitled for grant aid from two Governments and maybe even two Football Associations, this is far greater redress than is justified (imo)

Strictly, it's the government they pay taxes to and the FA whose competitions they strengthen. And while DC's move to the FAI/LOI was for forced political reasons, isn't there a parallel with say, Berwick Rangers who play in Scotland while remaining in England? They presumably can apply to both the SFA and English local authorities.


4. ...deprivation around the Brandywell etc, is it really any worse than that around many other NI clubs? ...how much of this money being claimed will actually go towards housing, jobs, education, welfare, training etc? And how much will go towards building grandstands and covertly subsidising/releasing other funds for players' wages?

Isn't the way around this an agreement that the money go on specific facilities which then get community use (buildings. pitch etc.)? Which, by the same token, might save on other government budgets for the things you mention.


5. Which brings me to the aspect which most concerns me. At the end of the BBC Report, the DCFC Chairman was quoted as saying: "If we don't get it [i.e. the funding], it's going to case serious problems as regards full-time football in Derry

Agreed. DC might go the way of Shels. That would be unfortunate, but they can't reasonably expect unqualified support from anywhere outside the club and city, surely?