Denis O'Briens donation

[Billsthoughts]

O'Brien can keep his tainted money. it would be more in his line to pay his tax here. its just a PR exercise. why not be anonymous?

If the tax rates werent so feckin ridiculous maybe he would stay here..
Have to say the coverage yesterday was mind bogging. Am no fan of Delaney but I felt for him yesterday on the 6 o clock news as he was been grilled about details of the appointment. really negative tack on this from the media. Great appointment for Irish football. End of story.

[OwlsFan]

When you have bothered your arse to read the comments, you will then be entitled to pony up your own opinion. You wouldn't have to 'suspect' anymore you might 'know' things instead.

Oh, so there are some deep insights in to the donation are there? Or just people saying he should have given it to the St Vincent de Paul, or to Galway Slashers or that the FAI are awash with money and should turn their back on money given by a successful Irish business man.

Where is the thread on the Irish business men putting money in to Sunderland? They can apparently do that without raising an eyebrow but if we donate to our own, we have a huge thread. Mind you, they are entitled to do with their money as they please.

Thanks Denis. I am not surprised you left the country.

[Ringo]

Oh, so there are some deep insights in to the donation are there? Or just people saying he should have given it to the St Vincent de Paul, or to Galway Slashers or that the FAI are awash with money and should turn their back on money given by a successful Irish business man.

Where is the thread on the Irish business men putting money in to Sunderland? They can apparently do that without raising an eyebrow but if we donate to our own, we have a huge thread. Mind you, they are entitled to do with their money as they please.

Thanks Denis. I am not surprised you left the country.

Sunderland was in an investment, end of story. I really thought we'd never hear who actually put up the money. i was surprised when they announced it. This is just another move for Denis O'Breien. No strings attached my hole.

[Macy]

Oh, so there are some deep insights in to the donation are there? Or just people saying he should have given it to the St Vincent de Paul, or to Galway Slashers or that the FAI are awash with money and should turn their back on money given by a successful Irish business man.

I think most who are not hailing O'Brien as the great white knight are saying the FAI are right to take the money, but it's wrong to applaud someone who has so much money from avoiding tax in this country.

I'm saying he should've stayed and paid his taxes, not give it to VdP or Galway Slashers or even the FAI, unless it was after tax money.


Where is the thread on the Irish business men putting money in to Sunderland? They can apparently do that without raising an eyebrow but if we donate to our own, we have a huge thread. Mind you, they are entitled to do with their money as they please.
There are many threads on foot.ie on this issue. Check out the eL forum for starters.


Thanks Denis. I am not surprised you left the country.
Niether am I, much easier to avoid tax and avoid tribunals when you're non-resident.


Have to say the coverage yesterday was mind bogging. Am no fan of Delaney but I felt for him yesterday on the 6 o clock news as he was been grilled about details of the appointment. really negative tack on this from the media. Great appointment for Irish football. End of story.
Inevitable, given the influence of INM and O'Reilly in setting the news agenda, and the way O'Brien has been upping the stakes in the long running handbags by, eh, upping his stakes in INM and asking awkward questions about director renumeration and how the company is run. If Delaney wasn't expecting this kind of reaction, it's another example of why he shouldn't be CEO.

[paul_oshea]

You never know. The Irish football team might just have a bit of his heart. Watching them at the world cup may have been some of the happiest weeks of his life and he probably wants to experience something like that again.

To a lot of LOI fans the national team is just a bit on the side from their first love, some even want the national team to fail. It's completely different for many of us on here who love the team with a passion.

who love the team, because its our country, and no matter what happens who comes and goes, balance sheets, boards, managers, players and fans, its still our country and always will be.

[citizenerased]

fair play to Denis O'Brien, I was never a fan of his before that as he robbed the state of about 50m CGT. But paying for trappa to come in(esp if we qualify) has made up for it.

O'Brien does what any astute business man would do, in manipulating the tax laws to suit his balance sheet..Even U2 have done this...dont see them forking out for diddly squat!

[NeilMcD]

THere is a clear difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. I think what he has done is tax avoidance rather than evasion. Also it has never been proved that he and Lowry got up to anything.

Bill O Herlihy was on Conversations with Dunphy on Saturday and Lowry was a client of his and he said that Lowry said throughout the process that he did not want any part of it.

[Jerry The Saint]

THere is a clear difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. I think what he has done is tax avoidance rather than evasion.



Avoision, it's a crime, look it up... I don't say evasion, I say avoision!

:mad: :)

[jbyrne]

I think the FAI made something like €30m profit last year.

turnover. not profit. spent €11m on grassroots football alone last year(according to delaney anyway)

[OneRedArmy]

Genius! :rolleyes: Like takin' candy from a baby....what age are you, 15?!

Reading only a handful of posts would give a flavour of the begrudgers on here. I'd hazard a guess that there's no need to read the whole thread ...

'I spy with my little eye something begining with 'B'...' :rolleyes:Begrudger: Someone who envies the possession or enjoyment of something held by someone else.

I don't think so. I live very comfortably, have a great life and have the added bonus of sleeping easy at night with my conscience.

O'Brien donates an immaterial sum of money (many, many times less than he would pay in tax if he actually lived in his beloved Ireland and hadn't jurisdiction-shopped his way around the globe, most recently exiting Portugal when it negotiated a double taxation agreement with Ireland), which the FAI have said they didn't need in any case.

Ergo, I see it as a cheap PR stunt given his "difficulties" at the present time. If he actually had any interest in Irish football he'd be doing something along the lines of what Mick Wallace is doing (who amusingly was initially linked with the donation).

[half_full]

Bar a few sane people, this thread is full of exactly what I expected: Irish national team Ole Ole 'fans' worshiping their new hero in DOB and his dirty money. This is a PR stunt by him and I'm sure he is laughing at the thought of how many gulable people are in this country. If he really cared he would have given the money priveatly or better still stayed away altogether. faiLURE had a chance of a (fairly) fresh start in appointing a new manager, but have once again dragged Irish Football through the mud.

[paul_oshea]

ya we are all ole olers on here.

I'm too stupid to know whats going on, only blinded by green optimism. slap me slap me. silly old me.

[NeilMcD]

Must be pretty lonely up their and maybe you should change your name to half empty.

I love the comment "or better still stayed away altogether". So now we have someone who is effectively putting money into the grassroots of the game and they are being told to stay away. This is small minded lack of ambition worst type of Irishness at its worst. O Brien is an Irish fan who has loads of money. Now legally he has this money. We may not agree with the system that has enabled him to amount this amount of money but he has it nonetheless. He is now putting it in to Irish football. I am not jumping up and down about that I am more concentrating on that Trappatoni is our manager. However I think the half empty bitter people are concentrating on this bit as its the only way they can get at slagging the FAI.

This time the FAI have done most of it correctly so the bitter people are concentrating on O Briens money as its the only angle they can see. These people like T'O'D are bitter little men with no ambition who will always be hurlers on the ditch. Its an easy place to be, it does not take any talent or ambition or intellect or drive. The role of the cynic in Irish life has been there for years upon years.

I only can guess that life in Ireland in the 70's and 80's was to be run by people like this.

[TonyD]

Also it has never been proved that he and Lowry got up to anything.


"I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove a thing" ;)

[finnpark]

Begrudger: Someone who envies the possession or enjoyment of something held by someone else.

I don't think so. I live very comfortably, have a great life and have the added bonus of sleeping easy at night with my conscience.

O'Brien donates an immaterial sum of money (many, many times less than he would pay in tax if he actually lived in his beloved Ireland and hadn't jurisdiction-shopped his way around the globe, most recently exiting Portugal when it negotiated a double taxation agreement with Ireland), which the FAI have said they didn't need in any case.

Ergo, I see it as a cheap PR stunt given his "difficulties" at the present time. If he actually had any interest in Irish football he'd be doing something along the lines of what Mick Wallace is doing (who amusingly was initially linked with the donation).

I don't think any of us are denying that its a cheap PR stunt because it is. Hes in hot water politically just like our scumbag Ahern and hes getting one over Eircom, a major competitor in many market segments. However, lets not look a gift horse in the mouth. If it was not a PR stunt then why would he go public so of course he wants the PR in a troubled time for him where his past is being investigated. Sad really.

[Wolfie]

The FAI went public and named O'Brien yesterday.

If they hadn't named O'Brien yesterday - it would have had the optics of hiding something and then every gob****e with an axe to grind would have more to whinge about.

Sometimes - you can't win.

[half_full]

I'm too stupid to know whats going on

You said it.

[NeilMcD]

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2877

[Wangball]

There's a saying about gift horses & mouths that seems pretty appropriate

[OneRedArmy]

I think it's a bloody shame that more attention is given to this donation than to the football.

We had people in general moaning at the process taking so long and all the side issues to that. Now when we have a manager in place and a world-class manager at that, people still have to pick out the 'negatives' as they see it.

Can you for God's sake please concentrate on the football!! On another thread of course so we don't go 'off-topic' - heaven forbid we go 'off-topic' on a football web-site....!
Hence this thread being titled as it is.

There are plenty of other threads to talk about the appointment from a football perspective.

[Noelys Guitar]

Aussies payed Hiddink's entire wages from a businessman's donation. Hopefully more money will come into Irish football from those with deep pockets such as O'Brien.

[half_full]

That doesn't mean faiLURE should have sold out to a corporate money machine.

[Drumcondra 69er]

That doesn't mean faiLURE should have sold out to a corporate money machine.

Your user name is the least apt I've ever seen.

[sullanefc]

That doesn't mean faiLURE should have sold out to a corporate money machine.

How much do you know about modern day football??:rolleyes:

[half_full]

Sorry but I fail to see any positive in this.

[Ireland4ever]

That doesn't mean faiLURE should have sold out to a corporate money machine.

Surely the FAI part should have been in capitals not the lure? Now where did i put my pedantic cap.....:D:D

[NeilMcD]

Half Full, if you dont get money from Private business how else are you meant to get it then. If you get it from the state, you are getting tax payers money and that includes people who are not interested in footballing paying towards football. Now if you arguing for a socialist state and if so fair enough. However we live in a neo capitalist state so the only way that that a Sporting agency can survive is a mixture of grants from the government, sponsorship and in this case money put in by private individuals who have made loads of money and are football fans.

[OwlsFan]

That doesn't mean faiLURE should have sold out to a corporate money machine.

Yep, they should turn their back on Eircom sponsorship, advertising rights in the stadium etc. etc lest they be accused of selling out to a coporate money machine.

Well done to the faiLURE as you call them - by that I assume you mean the FAI have LURE(d) 1 million of money per annum in to the game that otherwise would have stayed in a tax shelter.

[NeilMcD]

Clap, clap, clap! No flies on you sir!

Irony is obviously over your head - tip: don't always read text literally! :rolleyes:


This is my last post on this thread. it's like teaching a child how to tie a shoelace on here sometimes :rolleyes:

I think the tip should be for you sir, don't use irony on a internet forum as it very rarely works as Irony is to do with tone etc something that can only be got across in person and not in writing, especially when we don't know each others personalities.

[Billsthoughts]

I think the tip should be for you sir, don't use irony on a internet forum as it very rarely works as Irony is to do with tone etc something that can only be got across in person and not in writing, especially when we don't know each others personalities.

Neil is available for parties..........:D

[NeilMcD]

Bill if you read another thread I through out the invitation to Trap he can stay in my house on a Friday night after a match before he heads over to England. So unfortunately the invitation is only for Trap. :)

[half_full]

Half Full, if you dont get money from Private business how else are you meant to get it then. If you get it from the state, you are getting tax payers money and that includes people who are not interested in footballing paying towards football. Now if you arguing for a socialist state and if so fair enough. However we live in a neo capitalist state so the only way that that a Sporting agency can survive is a mixture of grants from the government, sponsorship and in this case money put in by private individuals who have made loads of money and are football fans.

My point is that donations of this kind should not be accepted in sport. No problem with (a bit of) advertising.

[Torn-Ado]

I think its a great thing getting all these rich fat cats to sorts out problems for us. The FAI should use this method more strategically to their advantage. They should come out publically talking up Denis O Brien as a hero, their knight in shining armour and pour scorn on the other millionaires claiming that they're a disgrace to their country and a shower of mean b***ards because they wouldn't help out the poor lads in the FAI.

All these ultra rich property developers will be embarrassed (and of course they wouldn't be as financially secure as they are if they weren't a bit competitive) and start throwing millions at the FAI and hey presto - New Lansdowne paid for.

[NeilMcD]

My point is that donations of this kind should not be accepted in sport. No problem with (a bit of) advertising.

So If I was a multi millionaire and I wanted to put a million euro into Waterford, you would argue no. Even if it was a no strings donation.

[tblade]

My point is that donations of this kind should not be accepted in sport. No problem with (a bit of) advertising.

There are plenty of us here that think O'Brien is dodgy (myself included) and that it's a PR stunt, but I'm still happy for the FAI to accept his money. It ain't perfect, but I don't think we can afford not to accept it.
My only point on this thread is that it doesn't make him a great Irishman or a hero and he shouldn't be lauded as one. That's not begrudgery it's just an honest opinion. (See my first post for boring reasons why.) There are lots of great Irish heroes in all walks of life from all kinds of different backgrounds and I'll happily cheer any of them but O'Brien ain't one of them.

[half_full]

So If I was a multi millionaire and I wanted to put a million euro into Waterford, you would argue no. Even if it was a no strings donation.

I would have reservations, we do OK financially as it is. We have been almost ruined by business men coming along with money. The Bohs way is the best IMO, 100% supporter ownership.

well said tblade.

[OneRedArmy]

I think its a great thing getting all these rich fat cats to sorts out problems for us. The FAI should use this method more strategically to their advantage. They should come out publically talking up Denis O Brien as a hero, their knight in shining armour and pour scorn on the other millionaires claiming that they're a disgrace to their country and a shower of mean b***ards because they wouldn't help out the poor lads in the FAI.

All these ultra rich property developers will be embarrassed (and of course they wouldn't be as financially secure as they are if they weren't a bit competitive) and start throwing millions at the FAI and hey presto - New Lansdowne paid for.Did you graduate from the Fisher Price School of Philanthrophy?

[osarusan]

well said tblade.

tblade said this, which is exactly the opposite of what you've been saying all along.

I'm still happy for the FAI to accept his money. It ain't perfect, but I don't think we can afford not to accept it.

[Torn-Ado]

Did you graduate from the Fisher Price School of Philanthrophy?

No. I failed miserably in my final year project of seducing Sean Quinn into giving me 10 million euros.

[Quickfire]

My point is that donations of this kind should not be accepted in sport. No problem with (a bit of) advertising.

In fairness, Advertising is probably much more insidious than a no strings attached donation. And yes I agree that in a perfect world, all athletes would be able to earn their keep without needing to rely on multimillion donations from various people. Unfortunately, that world doesn't exist, and people like Owen Heary and Eamon Zayed still need to get paid and that money has to come from somewhere.

In my opinion, there are two main problems with the money coming from O'Brien:

1) There is a strong (although admittedly as yet unproven) that the money he earned came in part as a result of bribing politicians, which shouldn't be acceptable anywhere.

2) Tony O'Donohue claimed that O'Brien was getting more regular updates than some members of the board of management. If true, then that should be a serious cause for concern. Surely he should just have said something like "Here lads, money's on the table, give me a bell when you pick someone and I'll sign the cheque." There was no need for him to be kept informed about who was being approached or when. Its unfortunately extremely conceivable that this inside information could have been easily used to more than recoup the cost of his "investment". maybe I'm just a cynical b**tard though.

As for the tax avoidance, I strangely have no problem with that. Given how the country was being run back then, any tax he did pay probably would have been wasted anyway, and I presume he at least paid some tax on it in portugal at least.

Anyway, rant over.
Cheers

Ps My first post. Hi everyone.

[BigmanCas]

Tax Avoidance is an encouraged lawful practice. "He who would slight my dog, would buy my dog"!!

[NeilMcD]

In fairness, Advertising is probably much more insidious than a no strings attached donation. And yes I agree that in a perfect world, all athletes would be able to earn their keep without needing to rely on multimillion donations from various people. Unfortunately, that world doesn't exist, and people like Owen Heary and Eamon Zayed still need to get paid and that money has to come from somewhere.

In my opinion, there are two main problems with the money coming from O'Brien:

1) There is a strong (although admittedly as yet unproven) that the money he earned came in part as a result of bribing politicians, which shouldn't be acceptable anywhere.

2) Tony O'Donohue claimed that O'Brien was getting more regular updates than some members of the board of management. If true, then that should be a serious cause for concern. Surely he should just have said something like "Here lads, money's on the table, give me a bell when you pick someone and I'll sign the cheque." There was no need for him to be kept informed about who was being approached or when. Its unfortunately extremely conceivable that this inside information could have been easily used to more than recoup the cost of his "investment". maybe I'm just a cynical b**tard though.

As for the tax avoidance, I strangely have no problem with that. Given how the country was being run back then, any tax he did pay probably would have been wasted anyway, and I presume he at least paid some tax on it in portugal at least.

Anyway, rant over.
Cheers

Ps My first post. Hi everyone.



Point 1 has not been proved so until it is it is irrelevant and point two was just said by T'O'D who is a bitter little man and has thrown his toys out of the pram in the last 6 months. He has been totally over the top. Anybody who watched the Press Conference live and in full would see that he went straight in about the O Brien money. He did not ask any football questions whatsoever. He was bitter the way he was treated over the Staunton sacking and because he could not attack the appointment of the manager he went for the O Brien money. I would not trust anything that comes from his mouth anymore.

[DotTV]

I can't believe some of the nonsense here. Who cares where the money came from? Anyone as succesful as O'Brien has bended the rules somewhere along the way. Look at our beloved Taoiseach for christ sake!
Here we have an Irish businessman pumping money into Irish football. Not Sunderland or Carlisle or Peterborough or Man Utd! Ireland.
This means we can pay for a world class manager and still have money left over to promote the game at grass roots level.
Fair play to O'Brien!

[tetsujin1979]

I get the impression that if the FAI had disclosed that Denis O'Brien had offered them 1 million euros to pay the wages of a the new manager, but they felt they could not accept it on a number of professional levels then people here would be complaining that they didn't accept the money to get a world class manager.

[paul_oshea]

Neil, i enjoy reading TODs articles. I dont think he is too bitter to be honest. You have that love-hate relationship with him.

welcome quickfire!

[NeilMcD]

Neil, i enjoy reading TODs articles. I dont think he is too bitter to be honest. You have that love-hate relationship with him.

welcome quickfire!

Don't think there is much love to be honest. I have watched him now over the last 6 months and I find him unbearable. I normally dont see him on TV after the Ireland games as I am usually there etc. But the whole Staunton sacking he was sickening and he has been sickening on this issue too. THe press conference yesterday was a disgrace from the press. Not one of the press corp said fair play to the 3 lads for delivering a top manager. A good few of them went straight for the negatives. T'O'D articles are a lot more toned down then his reporting and they are usually more blanced but on Television he has been a joke of late.

[eekers]

with o brien getting updates from delaney all the time.

do you think perhaps he took some of his inside information to betfair with him ;)

[Quickfire]

Point 1 has not been proved so until it is it is irrelevant and point two was just said by T'O'D who is a bitter little man and has thrown his toys out of the pram in the last 6 months. He has been totally over the top. Anybody who watched the Press Conference live and in full would see that he went straight in about the O Brien money. He did not ask any football questions whatsoever. He was bitter the way he was treated over the Staunton sacking and because he could not attack the appointment of the manager he went for the O Brien money. I would not trust anything that comes from his mouth anymore.

Stuck over in England at the moment, so can't see the live rte streams anymore. :( But there have been a lot of rants on these pages about the incredible betting market on the new manager, and I think its inappropriate if O'Brien had access to extra information that could influence that market.
Fantastic appointment though.

[paul_oshea]

you can see those conferences the same way as you see the streams at home, it streams abroad, only matches dont....but i know a way round that for the UK.

[Quickfire]

Ive tried getting a few things on rte, and they all keep blocking. I can access just the selected clips they release from 6-one, but thats about it.I didnt try to get the conference because i assumed it would block.

Would be useful to get aound