AIL:Will it happen?

[OneRedArmy]

Pretty much sums up why your views should be ignored on the subject, to be honest.And yours. And everyone elses while we're at it.

Is anyone objective about this?

Need I remind you about your railing against the unfairness of the original infrastructure requirements of Licensing as they left your own club high and dry?!

At least I'm honest.

[ifk101]

The map says different.

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|drumahoe

A clear break between the city and Drumahoe, and Drumahoe identified separately from the city of Londonderry.

The Royal Mail also considers Drumahoe to be separate in its official address of "Drumahoe, Londonderry".

Pól-dcfc lives there so he knows better than you.

And if Drumahoe was seperate from Derry there wouldn't be any need for the LondonDerry bit in its address now would there?

But maybe you can pm the Derry lads about this in future as it's clearly off-topic.

[OneRedArmy]

A clear break between the city and Drumahoe, ..........consisting of playing fields, which includes Institutes ground.

You knowledge of North West geography is similar to your knowledge of the Eircom League. Let me know when you are going to respond about all the centrally distributed funding EL clubs will lose out under the AIL proposals :rolleyes:

[Blanchflower]

And if Drumahoe was seperate from Derry there wouldn't be any need for the LondonDerry bit in its address now would there?

So is Eglinton not a separate town/village from the city of Londonderry?

Is Coalisland part of Dungannon town?

Both Eglinton and Coalisland have Londonderry and Dungannon in their addresses.

Kilkeel's official address is "Kilkeel, Newry" - do you think that Kilkeel is part of Newry?

Londonderry is the "postal town" and is in the address because that is where the mail goes for delivery not only to Londonderry but surrounding towns and villages.

[pól-dcfc]

The map says different.

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|drumahoe

A clear break between the city and Drumahoe, and Drumahoe identified separately from the city of Londonderry.

The Royal Mail also considers Drumahoe to be separate in its official address of "Drumahoe, Londonderry".


Zoom in and you'll find you are wrong. There is no clear gap, there's an industrial estate, with a childrens park opposite. Faughan View Park there is still part of Drumahoe, and still connected to the rest of the city. Drumahoe is a suburb of Derry the same way as Ballymac, Springtown or Creggan are. It was a village of it's own previously, probably up until about 30 years ago when the surrounding area was developed.

[Blanchflower]

..........consisting of playing fields, which includes Institutes ground.



Funny, when I was there in November, Institute's ground was on the left hand side of the main road to Derry. The map shows space on both sides of the road.

How do you explain the fact that Drumahoe is separately identified on the map if, in fact, it is part of Londonderry city?

How do you explain Royal Mail's policy of identifying Drumahoe as a separate town?

[OneRedArmy]

Funny, when I was there in November, Institute's ground was on the left hand side of the main road to Derry. The map shows space on both sides of the road.
Playing fields also, the posts are a dead give away :D

Now convinced you re-arranged the deckchairs on the Titanic btw.....

[Blanchflower]

Zoom in and you'll find you are wrong. There is no clear gap, there's an industrial estate, with a childrens park opposite. Faughan View Park there is still part of Drumahoe, and still connected to the rest of the city. Drumahoe is a suburb of Derry the same way as Ballymac, Springtown or Creggan are. It was a village of it's own previously, probably up until about 30 years ago when the surrounding area was developed.

I've zoomed in and the same amount of space is shown as in the wider view.

In any case, even if there is a children's park and an industrial estate between Drumahoe and Derry it doesn't mean that Drumahoe isn't separate. And being a suburb doesn't mean it's part of the city either.

Most of the suburbs of Belfast aren't actually in the city. Ever heard of Newtownabbey? Or Dunmurry?

[ifk101]

I take it Blanchflower you are not going to stop until everybody agrees with you.

The title of the thread is "AIL: Will it happen?"

The title of the thread is not "Ever heard of Newtownabbey? Or Dunmurry?"

Try to bear this in mind ;)

[Blanchflower]

I take it Blanchflower you are not going to stop until everybody agrees with you.

The title of the thread is "AIL: Will it happen?"

The title of the thread is not "Ever heard of Newtownabbey? Or Dunmurry?"

Try to bear this in mind ;)

I take it that means you concede that your argument about Londonderry being in Drumahoe's address is false?

[ifk101]

I take it that means you concede that your argument about Londonderry being in Drumahoe's address is false?

I couldn't care less. I'm interested in reading other peoples opinions about the AIL. As I say to you earlier your posts are clearly off-topic and if you what to pursue the Drumahoe issue further, pm the Derry lads or start a new thread in the forum titled "OFF-TOPIC".

[Mr A]

The title of the thread is not "Ever heard of Newtownabbey? Or Dunmurry?"

For the record, I have heard of both.

[pól-dcfc]

I take it that means you concede that your argument about Londonderry being in Drumahoe's address is false?

Jesus give me strength. Look at the bloody map again. Springtown is is also seperately identified. And also certaintly part of the city. The YMCA where'Stute play is surrounded by playing fields (not "open countryside"). Then there are two major housing estates on the same side of the road.

Drumahoe is in Derry. Take it from someone who has lived here for 22 years.

[pól-dcfc]

Very last thing I'll say on the matter, but even Royal Mail agree with me. The address of Drumahoe Post Office, further into the Drumahoe area than 'Stute's ground is:

Drumahoe Post Office
73 Glenshane Road
LONDONDERRY
BT47 3SF
County Londonderry

[Blanchflower]

I couldn't care less. I'm interested in reading other peoples opinions about the AIL. As I say to you earlier your posts are clearly off-topic and if you what to pursue the Drumahoe issue further, pm the Derry lads or start a new thread in the forum titled "OFF-TOPIC".

If you couldn't care less, why did you intervene, thus extending the number of "off-topic" posts?

A counter-productive intervention, surely?

[Blanchflower]

Jesus give me strength. Look at the bloody map again. Springtown is is also seperately identified. And also certaintly part of the city. The YMCA where'Stute play is surrounded by playing fields (not "open countryside"). Then there are two major housing estates on the same side of the road.

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the point to which you were ostensibly replying, namely: I take it that means you concede that your argument about Londonderry being in Drumahoe's address is false?

Why do you think Royal Mail consider Drumahoe to have a separate address from Londonderry? What is the official address of Springtown? I imagine it is just "Londonderry" and not "Springtown, Londonderry".


Drumahoe is in Derry. Take it from someone who has lived here for 22 years.

On what basis do you say that? When did it become part of Derry?

[pól-dcfc]

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the point to which you were ostensibly replying, namely: I take it that means you concede that your argument about Londonderry being in Drumahoe's address is false?

Why do you think Royal Mail consider Drumahoe to have a separate address from Londonderry? What is the official address of Springtown? I imagine it is just "Londonderry" and not "Springtown, Londonderry".



On what basis do you say that? When did it become part of Derry?

**** sake.

Read the address again.

Drumahoe Post Office
73 Glenshane Road
LONDONDERRY
BT47 3SF (MAP)
County Londonderry

The 1st Londonderry indicates the city, the second indicates the county. You are wrong. End of.

And i'd bet that it is Springtown, Derry; Ballymagroarty, Derry; Creggan, Derry ...

[Blanchflower]

**** sake.

Read the address again.

Drumahoe Post Office
73 Glenshane Road
LONDONDERRY
BT47 3SF (MAP)
County Londonderry

OK, I concede that the official address doesn't include Drumahoe. But that doesn't mean that Drumahoe is part of Londonderry city. For example, many addresses in Castlereagh are simply "Belfast", yet they are not in fact part of Belfast city.


And i'd bet that it is Springtown, Derry; Ballymagroarty, Derry; Creggan, Derry ...

Now you're not making sense - you've just discovered that the address for Drumahoe is NOT "Drumahoe, Londonderry", but simply "Londonderry", yet you are claiming that the address for Creggan is "Creggan, Londonderry" and not simply "Creggan".

I notice you didn't answer this question:



On what basis do you say that? When did it become part of Derry?


Could you answer, please?

[pól-dcfc]

OK, I concede that the official address doesn't include Drumahoe. But that doesn't mean that Drumahoe is part of Londonderry city. For example, many addresses in Castlereagh are simply "Belfast", yet they are not in fact part of Belfast city.

What the hell are they part of then? Drumahoe is in Derry. Derry has 2 senior football clubs.



Now you're not making sense - you've just discovered that the address for Drumahoe is NOT "Drumahoe, Londonderry", but simply "Londonderry", yet you are claiming that the address for Creggan is "Creggan, Londonderry" and not simply "Creggan".



Bit of a mutual misunderstanding here. I'm saying that many people when writing their address, they included the area of the city they live in aswell as the city name. Creggan etc are all in Derry as well.




I notice you didn't answer this question:



Could you answer, please?

I'd say it became part of Derry due to the expansion of the city. The same way many new area's are 'absorbed' by a city as it expands. Probably in the last 30 years as new developments have risen in the Waterside.

[Blanchflower]

I'd say it became part of Derry due to the expansion of the city. The same way many new area's are 'absorbed' by a city as it expands. Probably in the last 30 years as new developments have risen in the Waterside.
Belfast has expanded yet its suburbs have not become part of the city, so why do you think it is different for Derry?

Is there any "official" record of Derry city expanding and Drumahoe ceasing to exist as a village in its own right?

[pól-dcfc]

Belfast has expanded yet its suburbs have not become part of the city, so why do you think it is different for Derry?

Is there any "official" record of Derry city expanding and Drumahoe ceasing to exist as a village in its own right?

I've never said it ceased to exist as a village. It's just a village in Derry City. look at the address of the Post Office. They know a thing or too about address', and they reckon their Drumahoe office is in Derry, County Derry. Look, basically you're wrong. You presumably live somewhere in Belfast (apologies if I'm wrong) and occassionally visit the YMCA for a match. I live in Drumahoe. I know alot of people from Drumahoe. And I can't think of a single one who doesn't consider Drumahoe to be part of Derry/Londonderry.

[Blanchflower]

I've never said it ceased to exist as a village. It's just a village in Derry City.
A village and a city at the same time?


look at the address of the Post Office. They know a thing or too about address', and they reckon their Drumahoe office is in Derry, County Derry.
Look at the address of Cregagh Post Office:

Cregagh Post Office
Greenway
BELFAST
BT6 9DT

Yet Cregagh Post Office is not in Belfast. It's just outside the city boundary.


Look, basically you're wrong. You presumably live somewhere in Belfast (apologies if I'm wrong) and occassionally visit the YMCA for a match. I live in Drumahoe. I know alot of people from Drumahoe. And I can't think of a single one who doesn't consider Drumahoe to be part of Derry/Londonderry.

People in Cregagh consider Cregagh to be part of Belfast: but it's not, so that alone is insufficient evidence.

You say Drumahoe used to be separate, but some time ago it ceased to be separate. Is there any official record of this change?

[Mr_Parker]

I was going to come back with some more points but since it seems we cannot even agree what constitutes the boundaries in a city there isn't much hope for an AIL! :rolleyes:

[OneRedArmy]

I was going to come back with some more points but since it seems we cannot even agree what constitutes the boundaries in a city there isn't much hope for an AIL! :rolleyes:Don't worry, Stute aren't in the G6 :D;)

[pól-dcfc]

How are you defining the boundary of Belfast? The only thing I can find is the council area. And Drumahoe is definitely in the Derry City Council's area. Would you consider Altnagelvin hospital to be in Derry City? It definitely is, and (I know this is not a conclusive proof but it's as close as I can find), Drumhoe is considered in the same Local Govt. District as the hospital (http://www.ninis.nisra.gov.uk/mapxtreme/DetailedMaps/ward/95MM01.jpg )

This is an intensely boring conversation.

[Schumi]

This is an intensely boring conversation.

Stop continuing it then! :rolleyes:

[osarusan]

This is an intensely boring conversation.
Agreed. Lets put an end to it. Lets get back to discussing the AIL.

[OneRedArmy]

Agreed. Lets put an end to it. Lets get back to discussing the AIL.
In fairness, I think that discussion is also cooked.

G6 fans = broadly supportive
others = against or "maybe later"

......who'd have thunk it?

[EalingGreen]

Very last thing I'll say on the matter, but even Royal Mail agree with me. The address of Drumahoe Post Office, further into the Drumahoe area than 'Stute's ground is:

Drumahoe Post Office
73 Glenshane Road
LONDONDERRY
BT47 3SF
County Londonderry

I neither know nor care whether Drumahoe is in Derry/Londonderry/Co.Londonderry etc.

But believe it or not, you can't rely on Royal Mail Postal addresses as proof either way! That is because addresses are organised around Sorting Areas.

I know people who live in Bessbrook. Their official address is "123 Any Road, Bessbrook, NEWRY, Co. Down BT35 XYZ".

Everyone knows that Bessbrook is in Co. Armagh, but this is because Newry (Co.Down) is the main Sorting Centre for the area.

Anyhow, getting back on topic, assuming Derry City will be in any new AIL which is set up, if they were to hit hard times and get relegated (like e.g. Shamrock R in the Eircom, or Leeds United in the English Prem), do you think is there any chance they might choose relegation to the Carnegie, rather than the Eircom, on the basis that there would be considerably less travelling and expense whilst they were out of the big time? I am assuming that both the Carnegie and Eircom would offer equal access back to the AIL via Promotion, with the Carnegie having an overall lower standard, therefore being "easier" to win.

P.S. I'm not "stirring" it with that question, merely speculating that if the AIL got off the ground and led to better relations within football throughout the island, on the back of more peaceful relations generally within NI, it might not be such an unlikely idea as it is at present? I'm sure Big Ian would love to host his New Best Friend Martin when Derry City next came to the Ballymena Showgrounds! ;)

P.P.S. OK, that last sentence was a bit mischievous - feel free to ignore it! :D

[Blanchflower]

How are you defining the boundary of Belfast? The only thing I can find is the council area. And Drumahoe is definitely in the Derry City Council's area. Would you consider Altnagelvin hospital to be in Derry City? It definitely is, and (I know this is not a conclusive proof but it's as close as I can find), Drumhoe is considered in the same Local Govt. District as the hospital (http://www.ninis.nisra.gov.uk/mapxtreme/DetailedMaps/ward/95MM01.jpg )



Yes, of course Altnagelvin is in the city.

I'd say Londonderry city is that part of the current Derry City Council which was in Londonderry Corporation before 1973. Londonderry city was controlled by Londonderry Corporation. In 1973, however, Londonderry Corporation was abolished and replaced by Londonderry (later Derry) City Council, but (London)Derry City Council also included surrounding districts which had not been part of Londonderry Corporation and therefore not part of the city.

As the High Court has recently ruled that the city is not the same as the council I'd say, e.g. that Eglinton did not become part of Londonderry city, but remained a village within the boundaries of Derry City Council. I'd say the same about Drumahoe.

Belfast is different as its boundaries did not change in 1973.

[Lim till i die]

Limerick is a similar sized city to Derry with one senior football side (Derry now has 3, 2 in the IL). But we manage to fund a Premier Division team with a sizeable wage bill without any sugar daddies (and its been almost a decade since we last nearly went bust....!).


There are probably at least 3 to 4 Junior Clubs in Limerick of similar size to Institute and certainly a lot bigger than Oxford-Cambridge-what-you-may-call-it :rolleyes:


The Limerick public are apathetic to senior football

Limerick have been in the First Division for 15 years.

I defy any club his this country to have a gigantic-Derry City- sized fanbase when faced with this situation.

The Limerick public, like the Irish public in general, will come out for success.

To somehow imply that they'll never care because they didn't care when we were bottom of the First Division is flawed.

In the space of six months I saw Harps home crowd go from 300 to 3000 ffs.*

*Not a dig at Harps


I don't see why other cities and clubs should be forced to make up that deficit whether it be in an AIL or other format

Forced to do what??

How??

[DmanDmythDledge]

European Places: Winner and Runner Up in PL qualify for Champions League.3rd and 4th for the UEFA Cup.
Not possible because of co-efficients.


In fairness, I think that discussion is also cooked.

G6 fans = broadly supportive
others = against or "maybe later"

......who'd have thunk it?
Difference is the fans that are against it have are basing it on an appraisal of the proposals rather than going along with it because it suits the club they support.

[Lim till i die]

Funnily enough, I'm thinking of the €2,000 fine that Paul McGee incurred for L37.

He fully deserved that fine


Add to that, the fact that their club was expelled from the league because of a personality clash and I'm surprised to see that Limerick fans have such great faith in the FAI.

I neither like nor trust the FAI.


Maybe they'd be better off taking their chances with a group of shady businessmen.

Not without a wage cap we wouldn't IMO

[Saint MacDara]

Limerick have been in the First Division for 15 years.

I defy any club his this country to have a gigantic-Derry City- sized fanbase when faced with this situation.



Derry spent 13 years out in the wilderness without the comfort of even the First Division and now look at their support base and success.

I think they defied you

[Lim till i die]

Derry spent 13 years out in the wilderness without the comfort of even the First Division and now look at their support base and success.

I think they defied you

You're right

The circumstances are exactly the same.

That's not a stupid comparison at all :rolleyes:

[Mr A]

Derry spent 13 years out in the wilderness without the comfort of even the First Division and now look at their support base and success.

That's different though. Derry were able to return to football then with a lot of momentum and interest, especially as they felt they had been forced out of IL football.

I would totally agree that being in D1 for too long seriously damages a club's ability to keep a decent profile and support base.

[Not Brazil]

Therefore, your proposed "1st. Divn Nth" and "1st Divn Sth", the former having clubs from both sides of the border, is nowhere envisaged or proposed.

Second, since any new set-up will no doubt require the support (or at least acceptance) of both Associations, your suggestion will fall down on that score with the IFA, at least. That is, whilst I could possibly see them accepting 3 or 4 (even 5 or 6?) of their leading clubs leaving the Carnegie to join a League over which they had no real control, there is not a hope of their accepting the (rump) Carnegie League being effectively dismantled to allow for your "1st Divn Nth".


Absolutely spot on EG.

I think you and I understand the reasons why our friend's "1st Division North" is a potential deal breaker for many, like me, in Northern Ireland who support the concept of an AIL "Premier" League.;)

[Blanchflower]

Never mind that, Not Brazil, what about Drumahoe?

When you visit Institute do you consider yourself to be within the city of Londonderry? Or do you consider yourself to be in Drumahoe village, just outside the city?

[Not Brazil]

Never mind that, Not Brazil, what about Drumahoe?

When you visit Institute do you consider yourself to be within the city of Londonderry? Or do you consider yourself to be in Drumahoe village, just outside the city?

I consider myself to be in a glorified field in the arsehole of nowhere.

[OneRedArmy]

That's different though. Derry were able to return to football then with a lot of momentum and interest, especially as they felt they had been forced out of IL football.

I would totally agree that being in D1 for too long seriously damages a club's ability to keep a decent profile and support base.So its better to go out of football for over a decade rather than drop down a division?

Interesting logic.

To LTID plenty of Division 1 teams have had bigger crowds than Limerick, which increases revenue and allows them to get out of the division. You seem to have a problem differentiating cause and effect.

[Lim till i die]

To LTID plenty of Division 1 teams have had bigger crowds than Limerick, which increases revenue and allows them to get out of the division. You seem to have a problem differentiating cause and effect.

And I would wager that I know slightly more about the circumstances surrounding our stint in the First Division than you do.

[OneRedArmy]

And I would wager that I know slightly more about the circumstances surrounding our stint in the First Division than you do.Evil empire-esque conspiracy then so?

I look forward to hearing this....

[Poor Student]

Lads, your petty squabble is destroying this thread and obscuring a very relevant and intriguing topic: Is Drumahoe part of Derry City?

[OneRedArmy]

Difference is the fans that are against it have are basing it on an appraisal of the proposals rather than going along with it because it suits the club they support.Read what you have just written again. It makes no sense.

Believe it or not, I appraised the proposals and like them compared with the status quo. Of course I am biased, as is almost everyone else on here. You can argue the toss all you like about how objective the naysayers are being in their opposition but their views are absolutely guided by the potential impact on their club.

[Lim till i die]

I look forward to hearing this....

Look forward away

I'm not going to get into an argument with a Derryman about who knows more about football in Limerick.

[Mr A]

So its better to go out of football for over a decade rather than drop down a division?

Only in terms of momentum and interest levels the following season obviously. A team returning to senior football will create interest that a team that has been consistently in the lower division will not.

[OneRedArmy]

Look forward away

I'm not going to get into an argument with a Derryman about who knows more about football in Limerick.Its got nothing to do with knowing more about football in Limerick.

The point was around the special set of circumstances that you seem to be claiming that have prevented Limerick being more successful but that you won't divulge.

You must agree that unless there is evidence to the contrary (which you won't provide), it is perfectly rationale to assume that Limericks continued poor performance and support is primarily due to a lack of support for senior football in the city?

[micls]

Difference is the fans that are against it have are basing it on an appraisal of the proposals rather than going along with it because it suits the club they support.

What are you basing this on? Your opinion of it?

Seems to me a lot of the fans against it are not going along because it doesn't suit the club they support.

And it their club were in the G6 they'd have a different opinion, in the same way many fans of G6 would if their club wasn't in it.

I'd wager almost everyone on here cares a hell of a lot more about whats good for their club than for the rest of the league. And therefore their views on any issue will reflect that.

[sligoman]

And it their club were in the G6 they'd have a different opinion, in the same way many fans of G6 would if their club wasn't in it.I can tell ya I wouldn't, even if Rovers were guaranteed a spot.

[micls]

I can tell ya I wouldn't, even if Rovers were guaranteed a spot.

That's why I said a lot and not every ;)