View Full Version : G6 stay defiant
Buller
23/12/2007, 4:15 PM
Sunday Independent - December 23 2007
The G6 of the eircom League are playing a high-risk strategy by hitching their wagons to Fintan Drury's Platinum-driven chariot for a new All-Ireland League. Drury told FAI CEO John Delaney last week that plans were continuing apace for the League, with support from clubs on both sides of the border, including Linfield, and the intention was to kick off next September.
Unimpressed, Delaney issued a statement declaring a meeting between the FAI and the IFA next month to discuss matters of "mutual interest." The message was clear: if any All-Ireland League is to take off, it has to be a joint FAI/IFA production.
The six rebels; Drogheda United, Cork City, Derry City, St Pat's, Bohemians and Galway United, need to be wary. With the League starting on March 7, the FAI need to know who is inside their tent, and who's not.
If the 'G6' can't commit, they risk expulsion. Also, the FAI won't nominate Drogheda, Cork, St Pat's and Bohs for European club competition.
The 16 clubs outside the loop are watching developments keenly. If the FAI stand firm, Shamrock Rovers could find themselves in the qualifying rounds of the Champions League, while Waterford United and Longford Town would be re-instated to the Premier Division.
sligoman
23/12/2007, 4:22 PM
Rovers for Uefa Cup!:D
If the FAI dared to do that, football on this island would go to pot!! Interesting times ahead
Poor Student
23/12/2007, 4:46 PM
If the FAI dared to do that, football on this island would go to pot!! Interesting times ahead
The clubs have more to lose than the FAI.
geezer
23/12/2007, 4:48 PM
heard the knives are out for Nick Leeson in the fai, hence the swift threat and invitation from the fai for the top 2 junior sides from Galway into the A League.
With FAI employees being employed as consultants between fai jobs to set up fas schemes for one of the junior clubs involved and rumours of large 10grand consultant fees for the work its all becoming the stuff of tribunals. Nasty undercurrents at play here its rotten to the core
The clubs have more to lose than the FAI.
Quite possibly, but football on this island would be hammered. We could possibly go back to the IL, and thats the last thing I'd want!!!
pineapple stu
23/12/2007, 5:11 PM
Any All Ireland breakaway league is surely dependent on Linfield wanting in, which they've publicly said they don't. Surely that knocks it on the head for once and for all?
CollegeTillIDie
23/12/2007, 5:23 PM
There could be a six team breakaway Professional League set up by the Clubs themselves if they stick to their guns. Though why anyone would want to watch a competition with no prospect of European qualification is a mystery to me. After all FAI hold the aces here as they hold the permissions to nominate teams to compete in UEFA Competitions .
pineapple stu
23/12/2007, 5:46 PM
No there couldn't.
Not Brazil
23/12/2007, 5:52 PM
Any All Ireland breakaway league is surely dependent on Linfield wanting in, which they've publicly said they don't. Surely that knocks it on the head for once and for all?
Very interesting article in The Times today about the "breakaway" developments.
I think the online version is subscription only so, if anyone has an online subscription and could post it, it would be good.
It's not just as simple as Linfield not wanting it - they are involved in discussions about it.
You could be sure that if Glentoran took the lead towards an AIL, Linfield would undoubtedly follow.
Interesting also that Linfield's "Spike" Ferguson and Glentoran's Gary Hamilton have been in the local papers waxing lyrical about playing in an AIL.
Poor Student
23/12/2007, 6:07 PM
Quite possibly, but football on this island would be hammered. We could possibly go back to the IL, and thats the last thing I'd want!!!
Irish domestic football is the weaker partner here. The FAI have the ability to expel clubs from the league or deny them European places and if you also add in the participation agreement they have all clubs by the balls. This situation is not in any way comparable to the EPL or SPL breakaways, there is nothing viable about clubs breaking away from FAI and by an extension FIFA recognition.
Philly
23/12/2007, 6:13 PM
Something like this was always inevitable as the League developed into a mix of ambitious full-time clubs and clubs that want to stick with part-time and have no ambition to go full-time. Hard to see how it will work out, although it's a bit of a joke we don't even know whether our league will have those clubs next year at this stage.
GavinZac
23/12/2007, 6:29 PM
were the FAI to expel the professional clubs, they'd be destroying club football on the island and setting themselves back 20 years. that wont happen. the fai will push to put a nice spin on this as if it was their own idea, like the Premiership.
Poor Student
23/12/2007, 6:33 PM
were the FAI to expel the professional clubs, they'd be destroying club football on the island and setting themselves back 20 years. that wont happen. the fai will push to put a nice spin on this as if it was their own idea, like the Premiership.
It's a game of chicken, the clubs have more to lose being expelled than the FAI do in expelling the clubs. Domestic football as it stands and as it has stood for the best part of three or four decades has a low standing, expel the clubs and it'll continue to do so but it'll still plod along. If the clubs were expelled however, they'd be as good as dead.
GavinZac
23/12/2007, 6:45 PM
It's a game of chicken, the clubs have more to lose being expelled than the FAI do in expelling the clubs. Domestic football as it stands and as it has stood for the best part of three or four decades has a low standing, expel the clubs and it'll continue to do so but it'll still plod along. If the clubs were expelled however, they'd be as good as dead.
Would they? Sure, they'd be without european qualification. They'd have to rely entirely on TV and sponsorship, which would hurt financially. However, their existing fan base would not disappear, and the wider public would be astounded at the inability of the FAI to even manage their clubs. The FAI cup and league would lose sponsorship and the remaining part time clubs would either die without the gates from the 'big' clubs, lose a lot of players and quality, or indeed choose to opt-in with the 'splitters'.
Don't forget the FAI have a lot of influence on the allocation of grant monies etc as well.
To be totally honest I have little time for G6 or whatever. They voted for the wage cap, now they want out of it because a few have a bit of backing now or are not confident of their ability to sustain professional squads in the medium to long term. Boo Hoo.
The worst possible way an AIL could be formed would be as an exclusive organization for a few clubs to avoid the frankly pretty sensible idea of a wage cap. If history has taught us anything, it's that these silver bullet solutions usually achieve feck all.
Poor Student
23/12/2007, 7:06 PM
Would they? Sure, they'd be without european qualification. They'd have to rely entirely on TV and sponsorship, which would hurt financially. However, their existing fan base would not disappear, and the wider public would be astounded at the inability of the FAI to even manage their clubs. The FAI cup and league would lose sponsorship and the remaining part time clubs would either die without the gates from the 'big' clubs, lose a lot of players and quality, or indeed choose to opt-in with the 'splitters'.
Assuming these expelled rebels attempted to form some sort of league by themselves instead of just dying or going into hibernation like Derry did between IL and LOI, I doubt they'd be able to attract young talent as I doubt they'd be recognised by FIFA and players would not be able to play at U-19/U-21 level. That said, we're at pure fantasy and fiction here. Notably Shamrock Rovers are not part of the group and would remain inside the fold with the likes of other decent sized clubs such as Harps, Sligo, Waterford, Dundalk and Shelbourne. Those six clubs particularly with Shamrock Rovers on the outside are never going to carry enough weight to get everything their own way. LOI football can survive without them but it doesn't work vice versa.
GavinZac
23/12/2007, 7:08 PM
The worst possible way an AIL could be formed would be as an exclusive organization for a few clubs to avoid the frankly pretty sensible idea of a wage cap. If history has taught us anything, it's that these silver bullet solutions usually achieve feck all.In most other cases, wage caps have caps themselves; whereby if a club's turnover is for example, in excess of €1million, the rest is freely expendable. This encourages teams to aim for above the relatively safe cut off point, and those which havent been able to achieve this for whatever reason, must then stick to the relatively safe cap of 65%.
As business people, investors like Arkaga know that to grow, you have to lose money at first. this isn't safe for clubs without a high turnover, but if a club already has a relatively safe buffer of income (see our survival through the near bankruptcy of Brian Lennox) it should be allowed to reap the rewards, rather than punished for the inadequacies of others.
GavinZac
23/12/2007, 7:10 PM
Assuming these expelled rebels attempted to form some sort of league by themselves instead of just dying or going into hibernation like Derry did between IL and LOI, I doubt they'd be able to attract young talent as I doubt they'd be recognised by FIFA and players would not be able to play at U-19/U-21 level. That said, we're at pure fantasy and fiction here. Notably Shamrock Rovers are not part of the group and would remain inside the fold with the likes of other decent sized clubs such as Harps, Sligo, Waterford, Dundalk and Shelbourne. Those six clubs particularly with Shamrock Rovers on the outside are never going to carry enough weight to get everything their own way. LOI football can survive without them but it doesn't work vice versa.
LOI football could survive without them; much as the leinster senior league or the irish league does.
Poor Student
23/12/2007, 7:23 PM
LOI football could survive without them; much as the leinster senior league or the irish league does.
In time they could be replaced, a Cork City fan of all club supporters should know that.;)
GavinZac
23/12/2007, 7:31 PM
In time they could be replaced, a Cork City fan of all club supporters should know that.;)
City replaced nobody; Avondale simply put forward a LoI squad when no competition in the entire south east existed.
Replacing City while they still exist and are in any form of competition will not be easy. Step up, Cork Ramblers?
Lim till i die
23/12/2007, 7:42 PM
They'd have to rely entirely on TV and sponsorship, which would hurt financially. .
How much TV money and sponsorship do you honestly think the "G6" plus the two Belfast Clubs would attract??
the wider public would be astounded at the inability of the FAI to even manage their clubs.
I bet you the wider public won't give a rats ass either way
the remaining part time clubs would either die without the gates from the 'big' clubs
Nonsense, there would be more than enough attractive clubs still around
lose a lot of players and quality
How does the "G6" breaking away make any difference to what players they sign??
The arrogance of the 6 clubs above is staggering.
You'd swear every one is a Real Madrid-esque behemouth that can't be done without
In reality their power is more akin to "G4", the pop group, as opposed to "G16" the elite European clubs.
paudie
23/12/2007, 11:06 PM
I'd be astonished if this "breakaway" happened. Looks like the G6 (?) are looking to get the FAI to row back on some or all of the wage cap and are using negotiations about an AIL as a stick to beat the FAI with.
Will Drogs kiss goodbye to at least 250K in CL money? And more if they get past the first round as seeds?
Linfield are run by their members. Can they guarantee the members will vote to withdraw from the IL?
No doubt the extra TV coverage announced by the FAI during the week is another shot in the battle.
TBH this is all good press for the EL. Shows our clubs can be as selfish and underhanded as those across the water. Might persuade some barstoolers to take an interest.
I don't see a problem here. The FAI support an AIL but they can't exactly talk to IL clubs behind the back of the IL.
The pro clubs in the eL probably decided to up the ante in discussions as were not willing to wait for 10 years.
I can see the FAI giving unofficial approval to this. If real progess made they will come back into the discussions. There is no power of the FAI to lose as it is not like the creation of the EPL where the FA lost a lot of power.
GavinZac
24/12/2007, 1:46 AM
where did my last post go? :confused:
Steve Bruce
24/12/2007, 8:53 AM
Any All Ireland breakaway league is surely dependent on Linfield wanting in, which they've publicly said they don't. Surely that knocks it on the head for once and for all?
Can I ask why it is dependant on Linfield?
GavinZac
24/12/2007, 9:42 AM
Can I ask why it is dependant on Linfield?
To create any hype down here, linfield would have to be involved. Joe public hasn't heard of glentoran or dungannon.
incident
24/12/2007, 10:10 AM
To create any hype down here, linfield would have to be involved. Joe public hasn't heard of glentoran or dungannon.
Joe Public probably hasn't heard of Linfield either..
Obviously getting Linfield involved would be a huge boost to an all-Ireland league, but it's nowhere near being a deal breaker.
MariborKev
24/12/2007, 10:14 AM
There could be a six team breakaway Professional League set up by the Clubs themselves if they stick to their guns. Though why anyone would want to watch a competition with no prospect of European qualification is a mystery to me. After all FAI hold the aces here as they hold the permissions to nominate teams to compete in UEFA Competitions .
Whilst I don't know what the position is at other clubs, I'd be pushing for an EGM at Derry to vote on our participation.
I'd be lobbying strongly against the move.
Aaron
24/12/2007, 10:23 AM
Whilst I don't know what the position is at other clubs, I'd be pushing for an EGM at Derry to vote on our participation.
I'd be lobbying strongly against the move.
Do you think there's too much to lose if we were to be thrown out of the league and too long to wait for the start of the breakaway league, or do you simply not want an AIL?
pineapple stu
24/12/2007, 10:28 AM
Can I ask why it is dependant on Linfield?
If Linfield don't join, Glentoran are far more likely not to join, and without either of them, the whole thing is dead as, with respect to the other clubs, Jim Roddy is not fishing about for big games against Dungannon or Newry.
It's not entirely dependent on Linfield - I'd be saying the same if Glentoran had already come out against it - but it's just that Linfield have already set out their position publicly.
Edit - interesting to note that the clubs plan to kick off their new season next September, going back on summer soccer. Wonder whose idea that was?
Aaron
24/12/2007, 10:32 AM
If Linfield don't join, Glentoran are far more likely not to join, and without either of them, the whole thing is dead as, with respect to the other clubs, Jim Roddy is not fishing about for big games against Dungannon or Newry.
It's not entirely dependent on Linfield - I'd be saying the same if Glentoran had already come out against it - but it's just that Linfield have already set out their position publicly.
Have you a link to Linfield turning down the talks of an AIL?
pineapple stu
24/12/2007, 10:33 AM
It was mentioned here a week or so back I thought; I'll have a look see.
Edit - this (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/article3245335.ece) is the link I had in mind; originally posted here by Maribor.
Mr_Parker
24/12/2007, 1:29 PM
It's not entirely dependent on Linfield - I'd be saying the same if Glentoran had already come out against it - but it's just that Linfield have already set out their position publicly.
Linfield have not come out against the idea, only based their (their chairmans) response on what was/is on offer.
Mr_Parker
24/12/2007, 1:34 PM
If Linfield don't join, Glentoran are far more likely not to join, and without either of them, the whole thing is dead as, with respect to the other clubs, Jim Roddy is not fishing about for big games against Dungannon or Newry.
Newry are one of the clubs strongly pushing this agenda.
half_full
24/12/2007, 5:28 PM
The arrogance of the 6 clubs above is staggering.
You'd swear every one is a Real Madrid-esque behemouth that can't be done without
In reality their power is more akin to "G4", the pop group, as opposed to "G16" the elite European clubs.
I agree completley.
G6:rolleyes::D
Two words lads; Sunday Indo
The fecking Beano has more credibility at this stage. Surprised the didn't try and make out the league was going to be called the Katy French memorial league given their other obsession
A self-proclaimed G6 of southern Irish football clubs - without Shamrock Rovers???
Oh how we laughed.
Keep on dreaming, losers.
In a couple of years when Bohs are STILL in a delapidated Dalymount - Drogheda playing in an empty field in the middle of nowhere - and St. Pats still wondering what the property speculators have planned for Inchicore - Rovers will be wiping the floor with you.
A self-proclaimed G6 of southern Irish football clubs - without Shamrock Rovers???
Oh how we laughed.
Keep on dreaming, losers.
In a couple of years when Bohs are STILL in a delapidated Dalymount - Drogheda playing in an empty field in the middle of nowhere - and St. Pats still wondering what the property speculators have planned for Inchicore - Rovers will be wiping the floor with you.
Aye and my auntie will have balls!!!:rolleyes:
micls
24/12/2007, 10:22 PM
A self-proclaimed G6 of southern Irish football clubs -
Self proclaimed? Yeah I'm sure it was the clubs came up with it alright....not the newspaper :rolleyes:
without Shamrock Rovers???
Oh how we laughed.
Keep on dreaming, losers.
In a couple of years when Bohs are STILL in a delapidated Dalymount - Drogheda playing in an empty field in the middle of nowhere - and St. Pats still wondering what the property speculators have planned for Inchicore - Rovers will be wiping the floor with you.
:D Ye sound like those really old men-back in my day......
AnnaghRed
25/12/2007, 7:34 AM
PREMIER:
DROGHEDA UNITED
ST PATS ATH
LINFIELD
BOHEMIANS
CORK CITY
GLENTORAN
CLIFTONVILLE
SHAMROCK R
SLIGO ROVERS
DERRY CITY
GALWAY UTD
PORTADOWN
LISBURN DISTILLERY
CRUSADERS
COLERAINE
DUNGANNON SWIFTS Bottom four relegated relegated
FIRST SOUTH:
BRAY WANDERERS top two promoted
UCD
WATERFORD U
LONGFORD TOWN
COBH R
FINN HARPS
DUNDALK
LIMERICK
SHELBOURNE
ATHLONE T
KILDARE C
MONAGHAN U
WEXFORD YOUTH
KILKENNY C
CHERRY O
ROCKMOUNT bottom two relegated
FIRST NORTH:
BALLYMENA UNITED top two promoted
LIMAVADY U
ARMAGH C
NEWRY CITY
DONEGAL C
LARNE
GLENAVON
LOUGHGALL
INSTITUTE
BANGOR
CARRICK R
BANBRIDGE T
ARDS
DUNDELA
COAGH U
H&W WELDERS bottom two relegated
SECOND SOUTH:
BLARNEY U top two promoted
CRUMLIN U
LETTERKENNY R
MALAHIDE U
FANAD U
CARRIGALINE U
DOUGLAS HALL
CASTLEVIEW
COCKHILL CELTIC
BANGOR CELTIC
KILDRUM TIGERS
EVERTON
BELGROVE
WAYSIDE C
BLUEBELL U
AVONDALE UTD
SECOND NORTH:
TOBERMORE top two promoted
PORTSTEWART
BALLINAMALLARD
MOYOLA P
BALLYCLARE C
LURGAN C
WAKEHURST
BALLYMONEY U
OXFORD UTD STARS
PSNI
BRANTWOOD
ANNAGH UNITED
CHIMNEY CORNER
DERGVIEW
QUEENS UNIVERSITY
GLEBE RANGERS
Buller
25/12/2007, 2:08 PM
PREMIER:
DROGHEDA UNITED
ST PATS ATH
LINFIELD
BOHEMIANS
CORK CITY
GLENTORAN
CLIFTONVILLE
SHAMROCK R
SLIGO ROVERS
DERRY CITY
GALWAY UTD
PORTADOWN
LISBURN DISTILLERY
CRUSADERS
COLERAINE
DUNGANNON SWIFTS Bottom four relegated relegated
9 Teams from Northern Ireland and 7 from the south... Would have thought a ratio of 4:12 to be a more accurate reflection population wise. Letting that many northern irish teams in would have a hugely negative effect on the quality - rather than improving it, we would be going backwards in my opinion. Personally I don't think this would work. The only 2 or 3 decent teams that would actually benefit the new league would be Linfield and Glentoran, and maybe Portadown... The rest are equivilant to our 1st division sides.
osarusan
25/12/2007, 2:26 PM
Where did you come up with the division of teams? Is it your idea, or did you read it somewhere?
SECOND SOUTH:top two promoted
LETTERKENNY R
..........
DOUGLAS HALL
Do you seriously think that these teams will be able to travel for these games? These teams have no or very little money, and no or very little money will be generated in the "Second South" division.
And what happens if the bottom four teams in the premier division are all teams from the "north" or "south" section? How will promotion/relegation be decided?
The only 2 or 3 decent teams that would actually benefit the new league would be Linfield and Glentoran, and maybe Portadown... The rest are equivilant to our 1st division sides.
The worst team I've seen Pats play is Portadown. We beat then 3-0 last year with our reserve team
DmanDmythDledge
25/12/2007, 5:31 PM
9 Teams from Northern Ireland and 7 from the south... Would have thought a ratio of 4:12 to be a more accurate reflection population wise. Letting that many northern irish teams in would have a hugely negative effect on the quality - rather than improving it, we would be going backwards in my opinion. Personally I don't think this would work. The only 2 or 3 decent teams that would actually benefit the new league would be Linfield and Glentoran, and maybe Portadown... The rest are equivilant to our 1st division sides.
The Sunday Times said that the plans were to have 8 teams from the eircom League and 4 teams from the Irish League.
Buller
25/12/2007, 6:17 PM
The Sunday Times said that the plans were to have 8 teams from the eircom League and 4 teams from the Irish League.
A lot more practical and a fairer reflection... (I assume derry would be included in that 4 ;))
blackholesun
25/12/2007, 9:38 PM
I think all this talk is crazy, the problems the leagues have will not be sorted out in any way by any all Ireland league merger.
With Platini talking about wanting to see more teams from smaller counties in the Champions league, the biggest potential assets the two leagues have are the European slots, anything that would see some of these slots lost would be suicidial. UEFA will be very reluctant to see leagues from neighbouring countries merging.
Yeah, the clubs should use it as a lever to get more outta the FAI but leave it at that. The people pushing this are doing so to make money for themselves, not for the love of the game. I wouldnt trust them an inch.
bhs
Kivlehan
25/12/2007, 9:48 PM
A lot more practical and a fairer reflection... (I assume derry would be included in that 4 ;))
I doubt Derry would be included in the four from the North.
Drogheda
St. Pats
Cork
Bohs
Derry City
Galway
all definitely in from the LoI.
Linfield
Glentoran
Dungannon Swifts
Newry City
likely in from the Irish League
leaving two spots. Likely chosen from Shamrock Rovers, Cliftonville and Sligo Rovers.
Aaron
25/12/2007, 10:26 PM
I'd say Cliftonville are very much in favour of it, also Crusaders are rumoured to be in discussions about it also
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