G6 stay defiant

[passerrby]

Anyway back on topic, why haven't the 6 clubs ****ed off yet? Could the FAI exert any pressure on the respective owners of Terryland and Turners Cross to get them booted out of the grounds should they form their own breakaway league? Will anyone really care bar 'the 6'?

I dont think the G6 are really planning a breakaway, bottom line is they need the support of the FAI for there to be any chance of success , also i hear there presentation was **** poor with little support financial or otherwise .
does anybody see a breakaway surviving without fai support

[jebus]

I dont think the G6 are really planning a breakaway, bottom line is they need the support of the FAI for there to be any chance of success , also i hear there presentation was **** poor with little support financial or otherwise .
does anybody see a breakaway surviving without fai support

I don't think they are either, I think the 6 tried to flex their puny muscles at the FAI, got laughed out of the building and will now sit at home nursing their egos. That they are going to be ridiculed for this nonsense was inevitable, and rightly should continue.

[Aaron]

Jebus,

Can you tell me why you are so set against an AIL?

[passerrby]

Jebus,

Can you tell me why you are so set against an AIL?

let me repharase " now Mr turkey why do you dislike christmas"

[jebus]

Jebus,

Can you tell me why you are so set against an AIL?

I'm more against a group forming, thinking they are bigger than the league itself (some of the comments by the 6's fans here show that), who try and dictate the way the leagues in two seperate countries should be organised. It just smacks of trying to wrestle back control from the FAI because a few decisions didn't go the 6's way.

I'm against an AIL because it will favour the teams that are already in the money, and no-one else, it smacks of trying to keep the teams on top there for the foreseeable future. I also don't see what the attraction of playing Glentoran is for anyone outside of Northern Ireland, and I also don't understand why people are so eager to bring the meathead section of Linfield supporters down here to meet the knuckledragging section of whatever random Irish club they play.

I also disagree with promoting clubs based solely on their off-field exploits, as GUFC fans can tell you

[kingdomkerry]

I'm more against a group forming, thinking they are bigger than the league itself (some of the comments by the 6's fans here show that), who try and dictate the way the leagues in two seperate countries should be organised. It just smacks of trying to wrestle back control from the FAI because a few decisions didn't go the 6's way.

I'm against an AIL because it will favour the teams that are already in the money, and no-one else, it smacks of trying to keep the teams on top there for the foreseeable future. I also don't see what the attraction of playing Glentoran is for anyone outside of Northern Ireland, and I also don't understand why people are so eager to bring the meathead section of Linfield supporters down here to meet the knuckledragging section of whatever random Irish club they play.

I also disagree with promoting clubs based solely on their off-field exploits, as GUFC fans can tell you

Some chip on your shoulder!!!

An AIL would be great for soccer in this country. There has been no problems with linfield and glentoran fans in the setanta cup. A few dublin vs belfast games would deffo create more of an interest.

Imagine Derry vs Glentoran, Shamrock Rovers vs Linfield, Galway vs Cliftonville, Cork vs Bohs etc. Alot more interesting than UCD vs Longford or Dungannon vs Institute.

Your comment about this being about keeping the biggest at the top is rubbish the biggest and best clubs like cream always rise to the top. Look at any league in europe!

But like ive said before the Fai are in favour, most supporters are in favour, most clubs in both leagues are in favour the only people who are holding this back are the IFA.

To them accepting this goes against their unionist principles even if it means progress for all.

[Tis-smeee]

How are the FAI in favour ? What indication have they given

[jebus]

Imagine Derry vs Glentoran, Shamrock Rovers vs Linfield, Galway vs Cliftonville, Cork vs Bohs etc. Alot more interesting than UCD vs Longford or Dungannon vs Institute.

Absolute ******** I'm afraid.

First off the glamour ties you listed, Derry vs Glentoran I grant you, as I did when I said who outside of Northern Ireland would be interested in Glentoran, Rovers vs Linfield would drag far too much scum to the games, and would blacken the name of both the clubs and the league, Galway vs Cliftonville I presume was a joke, and Cork vs Bohs, don't we already have that?


Your comment about this being about keeping the biggest at the top is rubbish the biggest and best clubs like cream always rise to the top. Look at any league in europe!

Really? Because you think part-time clubs can sustain the travel expenses that this would cause? Cream always rises to the top eh? Unless money is your cream then you're living in fantasy land and honestly, I can't think of a way other than putting on a puppet show production to show you that. I presume the 6 would be looking for a vast majority slice of all TV money from this too for the top leaguers? I presume they look at the Premiership as an example of how to keep the status quo in football, keep in mind how close Galway, Derry etc. have nearly gone to the wall in the recent past


But like ive said before the Fai are in favour, most supporters are in favour, most clubs in both leagues are in favour the only people who are holding this back are the IFA.

To them accepting this goes against their unionist principles even if it means progress for all.

Yeah it's those darn Unionists again. The FAI may or may not be in favour, it looks like they're not, but who knows with them. Most clubs and supporters though? Bar the 6 who else is pushing for this? The two biggest marque names to the barstoolers in our country (that being Rovers and Shelbourne of course) haven't said they are interested, and without them the thing falls flat on it's face. And this is all assuming that UEFA go against their own plans and allow two seperate countries to form one national league, which they won't.

[Steve Bruce]

I'm in total agreement with Jebus.

[kingdomkerry]

Absolute ******** I'm afraid.

First off the glamour ties you listed, Derry vs Glentoran I grant you, as I did when I said who outside of Northern Ireland would be interested in Glentoran, Rovers vs Linfield would drag far too much scum to the games, and would blacken the name of both the clubs and the league, Galway vs Cliftonville I presume was a joke, and Cork vs Bohs, don't we already have that?

I think most clubs would prefer to play Glentoran in front of several thousand in the oval rather than 3 men and a dog in the "state of the art" Jackman park in Limerick.

Shamrock Rovers fan base is based in South Dublin, Linfield has most of its support base in East Belfast. Who are you to imply that people in these areas are scumbags. Dublin is'nt the city called 'stab city'.

My point was that with an AIL the fixtures would be alot more appealing and the league therefore would create alot more interest as an AI premier league would be made up of the bigger clubs eventually. Maybe this is what you are afraid of?

Really? Because you think part-time clubs can sustain the travel expenses that this would cause?

Well if any club cant afford the €20 extra per trip it would cost in petrol take a coach an extra few miles, they should do the decent thing an join a junior league now!

Cream always rises to the top eh? Unless money is your cream then you're living in fantasy land and honestly, I can't think of a way other than putting on a puppet show production to show you that.

Did I mention money? And you are calling me a muppet:eek:

I presume the 6 would be looking for a vast majority slice of all TV money from this too for the top leaguers?

Why don't you ask the clubs all im saying is an AI league would be great for domestic football in ireland.

I presume they look at the Premiership as an example of how to keep the status quo in football, keep in mind how close Galway, Derry etc. have nearly gone to the wall in the recent past


Again you would be better advises to ask them, all i am saying is an AI league would be great for domestic football in Ireland.

[Student Mullet]

I'm in favour of both an AIL and the wage cap. If I had to pick one it'd be the wage cap.

[jebus]

I think most clubs would prefer to play Glentoran in front of several thousand in the oval rather than 3 men and a dog in the "state of the art" Jackman park in Limerick.

Shamrock Rovers fan base is based in South Dublin, Linfield has most of its support base in East Belfast. Who are you to imply that people in these areas are scumbags. Dublin is'nt the city called 'stab city'.

And you are calling me a muppet:eek:


I think you just called yourself that champ. Anyway given the level of nonsense spewing at the moment I think I can safely say that your endorsement of this league has firmly killed any counterargument that pro-AIL fans could ever muster, I raise a glass in salute

[osarusan]

all im saying is an AI league would be great for domestic football in ireland.
all i am saying is an AI league would be great for domestic football in Ireland.


please explain how an All-Ireland league would benefit a club who are now a mid-table First division team.

Bear in mind these clubs are as much a part of domestic football in Ireland as any of the G6, even if they don't have the same finances or facilities.

[kingdomkerry]

please explain how an All-Ireland league would benefit a club who are now a mid-table First division team.

Bear in mind these clubs are as much a part of domestic football in Ireland as any of the G6, even if they don't have the same finances or facilities.

Im talking about domestic football as a whole. I never mentioned a "mid table First division team".

[osarusan]

Im talking about domestic football as a whole. I never mentioned a "mid table First division team".



Do you think that an All-Ireland league will benefit first division clubs without much money?

[Student Mullet]

Do you think that an All-Ireland league will benefit first division clubs without much money?
If the top half of the premier enters an AIL, the bottom half (Derry, Galway, Bray, UCD, Waterford and Longford) would be playing in the first division. This would improve the standard of football and support down there.

[sligoman]

If the top half of the premier enters an AIL, the bottom half (Derry, Galway, Bray, UCD, Waterford and Longford) would be playing in the first division.You really see Derry playing in the first division if an All Ireland League was created?

[kingdomkerry]

I dont think it will disadvantage 1st division clubs. You need to look at the bigger picture.

An AI premier league with clubs like

Bohs
Rovers
Pats
Linfield
Glentoran
Cork
Galway
Waterford
Cliftonville
Derry
Drogheda


could be capable of getting a team to the Champions league eventually IMO such would be the competition between them all.

I apoligise if this inconveniences some of the smaller clubs. (I dont think it would)

[sligoman]

We'd have more right to be there than Galway and Waterford and if we're going on recent league position then Derry too.

[osarusan]

If the top half of the premier enters an AIL, the bottom half (Derry, Galway, Bray, UCD, Waterford and Longford) would be playing in the first division. This would improve the standard of football and support down there.

but then some of what is now the first division would be moved to a new division? Division 2?

Nobody seems to be clear on how the league would be structured. Everybody seems to focus on the "exciting" top division, but not the rest.

As it stands, I'd see little or no benefit for any club who wouldn't be included in the top division from the very start.

I'd see a lot of the best players leaving any of the clubs that just missed the cut, moving to clubs in the top division.

I'd guess that TV rights would be divided favourably towards the top division clubs.

All of this would, in my opinion, lower the standard of every division except the top division.

But I'm guessing we'll never know. I can't see the FAI and IFA agreeing on this given there are two separate national teams, and I can't see it going ahead without the approval of the FAI and IFA.

[BohsPartisan]

We'd have more right to be there than Galway and Waterford and if we're going on recent league position then Derry too.

It was only a matter of time before Sligo fans started feeling "hard done by". :D

This thread reminds me of the debate on decentralisation at the PSEU conference in 2004. Two firmly entrenched camps
I'm in favour of an AIL but only after certain things are assured:
1. Fan culture is encouraged not trampled upon like in the Premiership.
2. The wage caps stays. Its good for everyone even the clubs who are against it in the long run.
3. The Limericks and Shelbournes ( ;) ) don't get left behind. A share of the cash should be set aside for generally improving the league infrastructure and better prize money should be available to the lower divisions.

The lower division clubs should base their co-operation on these and any other demands they feel reasonable. As the ad says "Its not just A or B; There's usually a C"

[passerrby]

your missing the main point kerry why do you think its called the G6 if they had more support it would be called G13,14,15, etc they do not want anybody else in there new exclusive club why do you think nobody else was invited to the summit,s because there was nothing on offer for them, and that my numerically challanged friend is why there is no love this hair brained scheme

[kingdomkerry]

We'd have more right to be there than Galway and Waterford and if we're going on recent league position then Derry too.

I was only giving an example of the first few clubs that came to mind. Sligo would fit in with the above IMO. Possibly limerick too if they ever get their act together. I just said waterford, galway and derry because they are cities and could command a large support if they were involved in a higher profile league ie AIL

[sligoman]

It was only a matter of time before Sligo fans started feeling "hard done by". :DFecking sure, cos I really don't see why the likes of Galway and especially, Waterford should be in it ahead of us. I'm aware that this is only people's opinions on who'd be in it and not an official draft of teams.

Anyway, I can't see this ever working and I hope it doesn't either.

[Student Mullet]

You really see Derry playing in the first division if an All Ireland League was created?
It depends on whether there's fair promotion and relegation, like you say:


We'd have more right to be there than Galway and Waterford and if we're going on recent league position then Derry too.

If, instead, there's a breakaway league without promotion & relegation, I don't think it'll survive.

[passerrby]

I was only giving an example of the first few clubs that came to mind. Sligo would fit in with the above IMO. Possibly limerick too if they ever get their act together. I just said waterford, galway and derry because they are cities and could command a large support if they were involved in a higher profile league ie AIL


Oh i see its like Noahs ark if you convince enough clubs that they might be invited on board then they might just help build the ship ,but when the rains come they will find out how fcuked they are.

[kingdomkerry]

your missing the main point kerry why do you think its called the G6 if they had more support it would be called G13,14,15, etc they do not want anybody else in there new exclusive club why do you think nobody else was invited to the summit,s because there was nothing on offer for them, and that my numerically challanged friend is why there is no love this hair brained scheme

Yeah but i was talking about the benefits of an AI Premier League rather than the G6. Possibly because i dont see it as for real. Come on even the name "G6" sounds fake!

I am convinced with the right marketing and sponsership an AI League would put irish football on the map. The problem is that fans from clubs who dont see themselves as being inside the top 12 (approx) clubs in Ireland want to hold the rest back. The other obstacle is the unionist element coming from the north.

Attitudes are destroying progress in sport!

[kingdomkerry]

Oh i see its like Noahs ark if you convince enough clubs that they might be invited on board then they might just help build the ship ,but when the rains come they will find out how fcuked they are.

Im not with you ive never seen or read noahs ark

[passerrby]

how do you think i feel im a unicorn.
on a more serious note yes an AI league could be advantagous at some stage in the future but as long as the G6 are involved nobody else will buy into it as they do not care about anybody other than themselves. they may require our clubs support now but if they get the AI

[BohsPartisan]

This G6 thing is a media creation. Get over it and stop being scared of the future. Get on board now, and fight your corner for the type of league you want to see. Remember Widnes!

[EalingGreen]

Some chip on your shoulder!!!


...the only people who are holding this back are the IFA.

To them accepting this goes against their unionist principles even if it means progress for all.


As you've demonstrated in starting a (frankly laughable) thread suggesting a merger of Cliftonville with Donegal Celtic, or by your previous claim that Linfield's support comes chiefly from East Belfast, it is clear you know little or nothing about IL football.

And by your continuing attempts to ascribe solely partisan political motives to the IFA, it is clear that you are the one with a chip on his/her shoulder.

Consequently, I can't help wondering about the credibility of your posts on LOI football.

Anyhow, to get back on topic, I can see a whole host of reasons why this proposed AIL might fail to get off the ground e.g. suspicion/hostility by the IFA/FAI/UEFA, opposition by the clubs excluded etc, which makes me wonder whether this is not as much a ruse by the G6 clubs to put pressure on the FAI over the salary cap etc, as a serious proposal in its own right?

That said, I can see one reason why it might just be made to work. I personally don't buy the idea that an all (or nearly all) f-t professional AIL will raise playing standards so much that the barstoolers and English/Scottish Prem fans in Ireland will suddenly flock to a new domestic League in their thousands.

However, if a serious and credible competiton, involving the "big" clubs in all the main population centres of Ireland, evenly distributed geographically, could get off the ground, it might just attract enough TV money (Setanta, Sky, RTE, BBC etc) to work financially. This is because it would be serving a market of 5 1/2 million reasonably wealthy people, including a fair share of "event junkies", who might just be persuaded to cough up a subscription and generate advertising revenue etc.

This is similar in size to the market for Scottish football. Granted, Ireland doesn't have anything remotely close to Rangers and Celtic; that said, those two clubs' financial needs are so much greater than any club in Ireland that the leading 4 or 5 clubs in Ireland might, if properly managed etc, be looking in time to rival instead the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United etc in the second tier of Scottish football. This would be clear progress imo and make an AIL worth considering.

Still and all, I still don't think it will happen, since it would require real skill, competence, perserverence and vision to pull it off and even if there are enough people in Irish football with all those attributes, getting them all to work together would be like herding cats. :eek:

[GavinZac]

your missing the main point kerry why do you think its called the G6 if they had more support it would be called G13,14,15, etc they do not want anybody else in there new exclusive club why do you think nobody else was invited to the summit,s because there was nothing on offer for them, and that my numerically challanged friend is why there is no love this hair brained scheme

its called G6 because the bloody Sun newspaper wanted to sensationalise things to get people like yourself worked up.

[Student Mullet]

its called G6 because the bloody Sun newspaper wanted to sensationalise things to get people like yourself worked up.

Also, because there's six of them.

[holidaysong]

Also, because there's six of them.

:D:D:D

[passerrby]

Also, because there's six of them.

exactly my point... six clubs met to decide what was best for them ,no one else

[GavinZac]

exactly my point... six clubs met to decide what was best for them ,no one else

Is whats best of them necessarily worse for the other clubs? I would that these meetings, convened by Arkaga, are the result of Aidan tynan ringing the numbers of chairmen he thought would probably be interested in bettering the game here. If someone from Mon U FC turned up, I doubt they'd be turned away. If the 6 clubs come to the other 14 with a good plan, are the 14 going to say "feck that, you didnt invite us to the meetings".

[Student Mullet]

If the 6 clubs come to the other 14 with a good plan, are the 14 going to say "feck that, you didnt invite us to the meetings".I don't speak for 14 clubs but my answer would depend on whether the good plan included wages being capped at 65% of turnover.

[passerrby]

Is whats best of them necessarily worse for the other clubs?
I would that these meetings, convened by Arkaga, are the result of Aidan tynan ringing the numbers of chairmen he thought would probably be interested in bettering the game here. If someone from Mon U FC turned up, I doubt they'd be turned away. If the 6 clubs come to the other 14 with a good plan, are the 14 going to say "feck that, you didnt invite us to the meetings".

are you seriously proposing that Arkaga, aiden tynan and jim roddy were interested in the future of other clubs ... my backside.
if we turned up ...get a grip
remember this group has approached the fai with a plan that was not seen by anybody else so yes although feck is not the word i would us

[BohsPartisan]

I don't speak for 14 clubs but my answer would depend on whether the good plan included wages being capped at 65% of turnover.

Well thats what the rest of them should use as their bargaining chip.

[GavinZac]

are you seriously proposing that Arkaga, aiden tynan and jim roddy were interested in the future of other clubs ... my backside.
if we turned up ...get a grip
remember this group has approached the fai with a plan that was not seen by anybody else so yes although feck is not the word i would us
well they probably didnt take monaghan into consideration as there are probably some eircom league fans who havent heard of monaghan, but i would imagine they will understand that any league, to be exciting and competitive, needs more than 10/12 teams. Believe it or not, its beneficial to us if Monaghan exists, if they provide the same sort of variety that lower league teams provide to england. The clubs dont want to just float out in the middle of nowhere like the MLS or NFL, they want progression within an expanded pyramid, any threatened "breakaway" is just a bargaining chip. While I applaud Monaghan for their continued existence in the face of an apathetic public, if Arkaga are to be believed, they have higher plans than simply putting out a semi-pro team every week and giving the locals a team to cheer for and a club to try out for. Far higher.

If certain smaller clubs would begrudge them that then its understandable why they haven't left the graveyard in my lifetime.

[osarusan]

I would (think?) that these meetings, convened by Arkaga, are the result of Aidan tynan ringing the numbers of chairmen he thought would probably be interested in bettering the game here.

I would think that their main interest is their own club and own bank balance.

It's hard to reconcile the idea of them trying to improve the game as a whole with the reports of trying to start a breakaway league not administered by the FAI.


any threatened "breakaway" is just a bargaining chip.
To bargain with who? The FAI?

[GavinZac]

I would think that their main interest is their own club and own bank balance.

It's hard to reconcile the idea of them trying to improve the game as a whole with the reports of trying to start a breakaway league not administered by the FAI.
And their club and bank balance can't exist in isolation.

Why would trying to improve the game as a whole not fit with starting a breakaway league without the FAI? We did it before for a long time. If the FAI stay stoic on their rule which, while well intentioned, clearly did not involve a lot of thought (currently, if for some reason roy keane walked in the door of the offices in gran parade and asked for a job, sending the public into a frenzy and we sell €1,000,000 of merchandise in a day, we would have €350,000 sitting around that we couldn't do anything with except 'put aside for a rainy day'). While its well intentioned to prevent another shelbourne case (though i'd be surprised if at least one club isn't breaking it next year), if it doesn't allow pledged investment, i.e. money which doesn't have to be paid back and doesn't carry any risk, its only going to serve to turn away people who want to improve our game. We've been crying out for investment and now we're turning it away?

To bargain with who? The FAI?Yes, I can't see it ever going that far. The FAI and IFA are perturbed that these talks have been going on without their direct involvement but they will not want to turn away any good progress, they will want to stamp their name on it.

[Student Mullet]

currently, if for some reason roy keane walked in the door of the offices in gran parade and asked for a job, sending the public into a frenzy and we sell €1,000,000 of merchandise in a day, we would have €350,000 sitting around that we couldn't do anything with except 'put aside for a rainy day'There's nothing wrong with putting money away for a rainy day but you would also have the option of spending it on anything other than player wages.

[GavinZac]

There's nothing wrong with putting money away for a rainy day but you would also have the option of spending it on anything other than player wages.

Yeah, we can construct our 25,000 seater stadium and have 2,000 in it to watch sean kelly and denis behan kick about.

[osarusan]

Why would trying to improve the game as a whole not fit with starting a breakaway league without the FAI?


If the FAI stay stoic on their rule which, while well intentioned, clearly did not involve a lot of thought.


they (FAI) will not want to turn away any good progress, they will want to stamp their name on it.

I'd rather be governed by the FAI, which has a duty (in theory at least) to serve all of the clubs under its jurisdiction, than be governed by a structure set up by clubs who want to avoid a rule the majority of clubs (it seems to me) think is a good rule and a good idea.

I'm not convinced it is "good progress" at all.

But there is one question nobody has bothered to, or been able to answer -

Under current regulations, and assuming Ireland isn't granted an exemption by FIFA/UEFA, would the creation of an All-Ireland League mean that this island would no longer be able to have two national sides?

My belief is that it would mean that the island would no longer be able to have two national sides, in which case both FA's would never support it, in which case it's dead before it ever got started.

[DmanDmythDledge]

This isn't going to be a runner for the simple reason that FIFA/UEFA won't recognise it just because a few clubs want to back track on something they agreed on 18 months ago.

[Partizan]

completely different club.

typical C/\wkie delusional nonesense.

Waterford FC & WUFC are the same entity, i.e. club but different trading company. Ring up the WUFC main office when they open up in the New Year and they will give you a quick answer.

Still it must be absolutley galling for you egos down on Leeside the fact that our Club is 77 years young and has 6 League titles to its name.

Ah sure,what does a spotty, angst ridden geek who knows next to nothing about eL before 2000.

Its in my sig, watch and weep.

[passerrby]

[QUOTE=GavinZac;845116] if Arkaga are to be believed,

nah dont think so

[Buller]

Also, because there's six of them.

:D :D :D
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a new Post Of The Month.

I regret starting this thread now, this is obviously a very touchy subject...

[The Good Son]

Still it must be absolutley galling for you egos down on Leeside the fact that our Club is 77 years young and has 6 League titles to its name.

Ah sure,what does a spotty, angst ridden geek who knows next to nothing about eL before 2000.

Its in my sig, watch and weep.

You have us well sussed ok. It galls us completely to have won our second FAI cup in 23 years and once again to be playing premier football next season. We look east with envy to Waterford who once again are plying their trade in the first division. Waterford are now lucky enough to be competeing with Limerick 37 for the titles of third and fourth best teams in Munster, with even queenstown looking down on them.

Any chance you could include leagues and cups won by waterford since 1984 in your fantastic sig?
Oh sorry, I just noticed you have included them.
Or maybe even include years spent outside of the top division?
You see, we weren't competing with you before 1984. So to this non spotty, but perhaps angst ridden and even possibly geekish City fan who has been following City since well before 2000, 1984 to be exact, these years are all that count to me, you know these years that we've spent in the top division since it started.