G6 stay defiant [Archive] - Page 2

AnnaghRed

26/12/2007, 7:55 AM

9 Teams from Northern Ireland and 7 from the south... Would have thought a ratio of 4:12 to be a more accurate reflection population wise.The only 2 or 3 decent teams that would actually benefit the new league would be Linfield and Glentoran, and maybe Portadown.

If the Premier was to start with 8 teams from each league, then eventually teams would find their own level....i'd imagine in the first season all 4 relegation slots would be occupied by IL clubs

TBH if any of this ever materialises, then I doubt very much if Portadown would make the cut for the Premier league, ended up fourth last season and will do well to make the top six this season.

Spent force :(

AnnaghRed

26/12/2007, 7:57 AM

Where did you come up with the division of teams? Is it your idea, or did you read it somewhere?
And what happens if the bottom four teams in the premier division are all teams from the "north" or "south" section? How will promotion/relegation be decided?

Was just wondering what sort of format might work. I know Douglas Hall and Letterkenny can play each other in the FAI & Intermediate cups, maybe a 3rd tier would be a step too far in the south, or would have to be regionalised.

If 4 IL clubs come down, then 4 would have to drop from the division below. I definitely wouldnt favour a 12 team division though.

AnnaghRed

26/12/2007, 8:09 AM

The worst team I've seen Pats play is Portadown. We beat then 3-0 last year with our reserve team

Portadown were an embarassment in the Setanta last season, but having the heart tore out of their defence just prior to the competition starting, certainly didn't help.

Not to mention a [past his sell by] manager who is on record as stating he felt it was a competition too far for his small squad. Can you imagine how inspiring his team talks were?

GavinZac

26/12/2007, 9:15 AM

Shamrock Rovers don't give a flying f*ck about this infantile rubbish.

Dream on.

We're busy.

Very busy.

Ok, sorry for disturbing you Shamrock Rovers.

CharlesThompson

26/12/2007, 11:49 AM

I think all this talk is crazy, the problems the leagues have will not be sorted out in any way by any all Ireland league merger.

With Platini talking about wanting to see more teams from smaller counties in the Champions league, the biggest potential assets the two leagues have are the European slots, anything that would see some of these slots lost would be suicidial. UEFA will be very reluctant to see leagues from neighbouring countries merging.

Yeah, the clubs should use it as a lever to get more outta the FAI but leave it at that. The people pushing this are doing so to make money for themselves, not for the love of the game. I wouldnt trust them an inch.

bhs

The thing is though, with a merger between the two leagues despite there being less European places available, this will make very little difference in my opinion or if anything only improve our coefficient and results. Why? We will be sending stronger teams into European competition each year as the league will be stronger and the odds of poor sides gaining qualification will be greater. Stronger home sides qualifiying will only help our results and our coefficient.

At the moment in the eL and the IL each team is chasing one of four places. In a new league, each team will still be chasing one of four (or possibly five depending on sweet talking Uefa) places. What's the difference?

half_full

26/12/2007, 12:05 PM

GavinZac

26/12/2007, 12:12 PM

The FAI don't want it. The IFA don't want it. Most clubs don't want it. Uefa certainly don't want it.

If anything is to happen it will result in a few stupid clubs trying to form a little league of their own with no Uefa places. Anyone who thinks any differently is deluded.Yes, but you need to weigh the value of clubs against the others. Are small part time clubs like Harps or Waterford or Shamrocks really that important in the greater scheme of things? Starting from a clean slate, are they really necessary to seduce the average paying customer? Perhaps in time they'll accept their place on the lower rungs of the new ladder as a better position than slightly elevated in a meaningless league, but for their sake you'd hope they do it before someone decided to set up Tallaght FC or Waterford Athletic and align themselves with, as Kevin Doyle would say, 'proper clubs' and professionalism.

Lux Interior

26/12/2007, 12:18 PM

To create any hype down here, linfield would have to be involved. Joe public hasn't heard of glentoran or dungannon.

You can rest assured that of the so-called 'G6' only Derry City would carry any sort of gravitas with IL supporters. The only other 'name of note' - Shamrock Rovers - are conspicious by their absence.

Not Brazil

26/12/2007, 12:20 PM

Officials from clubs exploring an AIL, from both sides of the border, will be meeting in Newry this Friday.

But - keep quiet - it's a secret.

Lux Interior

26/12/2007, 12:21 PM

The Sunday Times said that the plans were to have 8 teams from the eircom League and 4 teams from the Irish League.

If any sort of breakaway were to occur, this would seem a fair ratio, based on ability.

I think the Setanta has shown that, in the main, Irish League clubs, most pointedly the one I follow - have struggled in the 3 Setanta Cups this season.

GavinZac

26/12/2007, 12:22 PM

You can rest assured that of the so-called 'G6' only Derry City would carry any sort of gravitas with IL supporters. The only other 'name of note' - Shamrock Rovers - are conspicious by their absence.
yes, but this is a marketing exercise. NI clubs are being used to create a buzz down here, not the other way around. truly viable professionalism in NI will take a lot more than greater visibility to their market.

jebus

26/12/2007, 12:40 PM

What a lovely load of nonsense to walk back to after a few internet free days. Anyway the G6 can **** off for all most of us care, and an AIL without Linfield or Shamrock Rovers won't work, as both are still seen as the two biggest clubs in their respective countries by joe public. Until both of those clubs formally announce they will enter this it will remain a non-runner.

This smacks of the 6 clubs (bar my use of that name above I will refuse to use that laughable moniker from here on in) crying about what THEY SIGNED UP FOR, as the Galway lads used to put it to me in my anti-FAI rants this time last year, and are now trying to persuade the FAI that they do indeed have some level of power, which is clear to no-one but themselves.

Anyway leave them form their special league, and lets see how they do when the FAI kick them out of Europe, and block Setanta, RTE and TV3 from doing buisness with them by threatening to not negotiate the national team's contract with them ever again.

GavinZac

26/12/2007, 12:43 PM

half_full

26/12/2007, 12:54 PM

Yes, but you need to weigh the value of clubs against the others. Are small part time clubs like Harps or Waterford or Shamrocks really that important in the greater scheme of things? Starting from a clean slate, are they really necessary to seduce the average paying customer? Perhaps in time they'll accept their place on the lower rungs of the new ladder as a better position than slightly elevated in a meaningless league, but for their sake you'd hope they do it before someone decided to set up Tallaght FC or Waterford Athletic and align themselves with, as Kevin Doyle would say, 'proper clubs' and professionalism.

Ok say G6 plus the four IL clubs go for this. Dungannon/Newry will be no where near good enough (no disrespect meant there). No Europe or Relegation/Promotion. It's not as if the clubs threating to leave are G14. There would be plenty of big clubs left: Rovers
Sligo, Harps, Dundalk, Shels. The average punter recognises these clubs far more than the IL ones.

I can't see any sensible clubs wanting to go near this, but fair enough if anyone can see the merit in it theres not much stopping them.

incident

26/12/2007, 1:44 PM

The FAI don't want it. The IFA don't want it. Most clubs don't want it. Uefa certainly don't want it.
The FAI do want it, and have done so for a long time now.

Most of the clubs who've stated a view have come out in favour. The only club to publically object so far has been Linfield.

I suspect that UEFA probably haven't really thought a whole lot about it - certainly they haven't given any public indication as to their feelings.

You're right though, the IFA don't want it. So that's 1 out of 4 you got right.

passerrby

26/12/2007, 1:56 PM

The FAI do
Most of the clubs who've stated a view have come out in favour. The only club to publically object so far has been Linfield.

your other points are arguable but your above comment is so full of crap six clubs in the Eircom league and three clubs fron the irish league (excluding the Biggest club).the rest think this is daft plan

osarusan

26/12/2007, 1:59 PM

2 questions -

Will the FAI and IFA give this their blessing? If not, I can't see it happening as there will be no European places available.

Would an All-Ireland league mean that the island could only have one national side?

I know that Liechtenstein have special dispensation to play as a league team, but I think they are an exception to the rule.

If the "1 league = 1 National team rule" applies, then surely the two governing bodies will be against it. And if they are, I can't see it going ahead.

incident

26/12/2007, 3:50 PM

your other points are arguable but your above comment is so full of crap six clubs in the Eircom league and three clubs fron the irish league (excluding the Biggest club).the rest think this is daft plan
So which clubs, apart from Linfield, have either directly or indirectly opposed the idea?

By my count, several clubs (both sides of the border) are known to support the concept, Linfield are known to oppose it, and the overwhelming majority have so far stayed quiet and can't be counted on either side.

passerrby

26/12/2007, 4:16 PM

So which clubs, apart from Linfield, have either directly or indirectly opposed the idea?

By my count, several clubs (both sides of the border) are known to support the concept, Linfield are known to oppose it, and the overwhelming majority have so far stayed quiet and can't be counted on either side.

G6 .....speaks for its self does it

incident

26/12/2007, 4:26 PM

G6 .....speaks for its self does it
So basically you can't name a club other than Linfield that's actually opposed to the idea?

I'm not claiming the idea will gain universal support, or end up happening - but to try and suggest that "most" clubs are against it at this stage is laughable.

Several clubs support it. One club is against it. It looks like the vast majority seem to be holding fire until they know what's actually on the table.

DmanDmythDledge

26/12/2007, 6:09 PM

Dodge

26/12/2007, 6:55 PM

Anyway leave them form their special league, and lets see how they do when the FAI kick them out of Europe, and block Setanta, RTE and TV3 from doing buisness with them by threatening to not negotiate the national team's contract with them ever again.

Does anyone actually think the clubs will go ahead with this without the backing of all clubs on the island and both associations. Its nothing but a bargaining chip. On the TV deal, does anyone know how much clubs will receive for their games being on TV?

DmanDmythDledge

26/12/2007, 6:57 PM

On the TV deal, does anyone know how much clubs will receive for their games being on TV?
Sky are interested so presumably there will be an unprecedented level of tv revenue.

half_full

26/12/2007, 8:11 PM

The FAI do want it, and have done so for a long time now.

Most of the clubs who've stated a view have come out in favour. The only club to publically object so far has been Linfield.

I suspect that UEFA probably haven't really thought a whole lot about it - certainly they haven't given any public indication as to their feelings.

You're right though, the IFA don't want it. So that's 1 out of 4 you got right.

Why would the FAI want it? Same for the IFA. The clubs who have stated a view are the ones in favour, because every other club knows its mad. Uefa don't want this as it would set a precedent for clubs breaking away-the last thing they want.

Schumi

26/12/2007, 8:56 PM

Sky are interested so presumably there will be an unprecedented level of tv revenue.6k per game?!

Buller

26/12/2007, 9:57 PM

6k per game?!

:eek: An astounding increase on current levels of 5k! Well worth it...

BohsPartisan

26/12/2007, 10:54 PM

We're busy.

Very busy.

Living in the distant past when anyone gave a flying f*ck about your once great side.

Buller

26/12/2007, 11:08 PM

Living in the distant past when anyone gave a flying f*ck about your once great side.

Actually we're busy building a future, in case you haven't heard...

GavinZac

26/12/2007, 11:44 PM

Actually we're busy building a future, in case you haven't heard...

I thought the government was building it for you because the last owners defaulted and the current ones are hanging in by a thread.

Still though, must be tough being Ireland's first franchise football team. Tallaght has the Shamrocks now though, at least til a better offer for the brand comes in.

BohsPartisan

27/12/2007, 12:04 AM

Still though, must be tough being Ireland's first franchise football team. Tallaght has the Shamrocks now though, at least til a better offer for the brand comes in.

I heard that the Mayor of Albuquerque is lining up something.

Tis-smeee

27/12/2007, 5:10 AM

Still though, must be tough being Ireland's first franchise football team.

I believe that honour resides in cork

GavinZac

27/12/2007, 1:55 PM

I believe that honour resides in cork

Do you know what a franchise is? :confused: How does a club, originating with Avondale deciding to set up another club, recruit some local lads and enter a league, constitute a franchise? That is how 90% of clubs are set up.

A sports franchise is an American idea, a brand which simply fills a slot in a league table, which can be relocated to where-ever a good market exists. Witness San Jose Clash upping sticks and driving down the road to Houston, or the Dodgers club moving across the continent to where they could be the first to draw in support from the relatively new and rapidly expanding settlement of Los Angeles.

the Shamrock franchise is moving away from its heritage in south inner dublin, ringsend and milltown, and whoring itself to the baying masses of the relatively new and rapidly expanding settlement of Tallaght.

Tis-smeee

27/12/2007, 2:05 PM

Hit nerve did I with so many incarnations of franchise teams in cork over the years Im not surprised

Dodge

27/12/2007, 2:20 PM

Do you know what a franchise is? :confused: How does a club, originating with Avondale deciding to set up another club, recruit some local lads and enter a league, constitute a franchise? That is how 90% of clubs are set up.

Because the FAI sought applications from interested parties in Cork in creating a club specifically for the LOI. And 90% of clubs do not form this way, or the way you described either.

kingdomkerry

27/12/2007, 2:22 PM

They used to attract most of their support from South Dublin when they were in Milltown. They will still attract most of their support from South Dublin in Tallagh. Whats the problem?

half_full

27/12/2007, 3:57 PM

Jealousy, thats the problem. Arkaga Franchise Club will never have any history.

Pablo

27/12/2007, 4:40 PM

Jealousy, thats the problem. Arkaga Franchise Club will never have any history.

Now thats funny. Considering Waterford United are a new club themselves!

Whatever happened to Waterford FC?

half_full

27/12/2007, 5:38 PM

No we are not, we simply added the word 'United' to our name, Waterford F.C.

Pablo

27/12/2007, 5:40 PM

No we are not, we simply added the word 'United' to our name, Waterford F.C.

completely different club.

GavinZac

27/12/2007, 6:28 PM

Hit nerve did I with so many incarnations of franchise teams in cork over the years Im not surprised

Not really. I see however, you still havent figured out what a franchise is; A club being new, or there being many incarnations of different clubs in one city, doesn't mean its a franchise. Look at Limerick - they've had 37 clubs now at this stage. They aren't, however, a franchise. They're a splitters group, like the majority of clubs (people generally don't just wake up and think one day, "i think i might like football. I shall set up a club so I can play." This process happens all over the world, e.g. Genoa and Milan, or Botafogo and Fluminense. It happens in every sport too, e.g. the Barres and Na Piarsiagh)

A franchise is where one team occupies the same slot in the league no matter where they play, playing wherever the cash can be gotten, losing all local identity. The next step in the process is allocation of players in order of worst team to best, so that every franchise gets to win sometime. The yanks really know how to exploit sport for profit.

Billy Lord

27/12/2007, 8:28 PM

Do you know what a franchise is? :confused: How does a club, originating with Avondale deciding to set up another club, recruit some local lads and enter a league, constitute a franchise? That is how 90% of clubs are set up.

A sports franchise is an American idea, a brand which simply fills a slot in a league table, which can be relocated to where-ever a good market exists. Witness San Jose Clash upping sticks and driving down the road to Houston, or the Dodgers club moving across the continent to where they could be the first to draw in support from the relatively new and rapidly expanding settlement of Los Angeles.

the Shamrock franchise is moving away from its heritage in south inner dublin, ringsend and milltown, and whoring itself to the baying masses of the relatively new and rapidly expanding settlement of Tallaght.

FYI: a move to Tallaght was first proposed in the Shamrock Rovers' fanzine Hoops Upside Your Head! Rovers have been based there since 1997 through the schoolboys' section, and the club has been working in the South Dublin community (scholarships, Football in the Community) since the fans took over. Also, the movement of our fanbase over the last three decades means that around 50% of our current support already resides in or around Tallaght. Those outside the area (including myself) fully support the move.
Given that we're a members' club with deep roots in the South Dublin region it makes total sense. Besides, if it's what the fans want it can hardly be described as a franchise.
Begrudge all you like; you're just someone on the internet. Meanwhile we own our club and are in control of our destiny. Boo! Yah! etc.

Dodge

27/12/2007, 8:38 PM

A franchise is where one team occupies the same slot in the league no matter where they play, playing wherever the cash can be gotten, losing all local identity. The next step in the process is allocation of players in order of worst team to best, so that every franchise gets to win sometime. The yanks really know how to exploit sport for profit.
Thats not what a franchise is at all. The last bit has nothing got to do with franchises at all.

GavinZac

27/12/2007, 8:44 PM

Thats not what a franchise is at all. The last bit has nothing got to do with franchises at all.
The player allocation? I know. I didn't say it did :confused: If a franchise isn't "one team occupies the same slot in the league no matter where they play, playing wherever the cash can be gotten, losing all local identity", what is it?

HulaHoop

28/12/2007, 12:37 AM

If a franchise isn't "one team occupies the same slot in the league no matter where they play, playing wherever the cash can be gotten, losing all local identity", what is it?

Cork City FC

Pablo

28/12/2007, 1:18 AM

Cork City FC

you gotta love the petty jealousy in this thread! We're in their heads Kid

BohsPartisan

28/12/2007, 1:19 AM

you gotta love the petty jealousy in this thread! We're in their heads Kid

Jealousy of what exactly?

jebus

28/12/2007, 8:19 AM

Look at Limerick - they've had 37 clubs now at this stage.

Yawn. You'd get more people to rise to your petty wumming Gav if you actually honed your skills a bit more, really, you've got the annoying irritant factor down to a tee, now you just need to improve your jokes.

Anyway back on topic, why haven't the 6 clubs ****ed off yet? Could the FAI exert any pressure on the respective owners of Terryland and Turners Cross to get them booted out of the grounds should they form their own breakaway league? Will anyone really care bar 'the 6'?

mandrake

28/12/2007, 9:35 AM

A self-proclaimed G6 of southern Irish football clubs - without Shamrock Rovers???

Oh how we laughed.

Keep on dreaming, losers.

In a couple of years when Bohs are STILL in a delapidated Dalymount - Drogheda playing in an empty field in the middle of nowhere - and St. Pats still wondering what the property speculators have planned for Inchicore - Rovers will be wiping the floor with you.

hey before you start winning leagues (hahaha) remember where youve been for the last 20 years....and drogheda offered u ouor ground when u had nowhere for a licence 2 years ago...(with an attitude like that no wonder you lot are hated)