Protest against Venables? [Archive] - Page 2

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Schlooooomp

05/12/2007, 9:17 AM

Name names:

Pro venables:
John Giles - RTE - conditional support, based on venables concentrating on the Irish job and not media profile
Paul Hyland - The Evening Herald
Paul Lennon - The Star
Roy Curtis - The Sunday World
Kenny Cunningham - The Evening herald
Dion Fanning - Irish Independent
Liam Mackey - Irish Examiner
Most players or ex-players have positive things to say about venables, not gonna name names on this one.

Anti venables:
Eamon Dunphy - RTE/The Star
Tom Humphries - The Irish Times
Daniel McDonnell - Irish Independent
Kieran Cunningham - The Star
foot.ie

Help me add to the list please.

Sligo Hornet

05/12/2007, 10:30 AM

eirebhoy

05/12/2007, 10:31 AM

If you lot protest Venables and we get that Kendell lad i won't be to pleased with yous.
Why is that? Do you like old style English managers? :)

eekers

05/12/2007, 11:31 AM

you can add newstalk to the anti venables list

Stuttgart88

05/12/2007, 11:34 AM

According to McDonnell in the Indo Delaney faces a grilling on the prolonged debacle at today's official opening of the FAI's new offices at Abbotstown.

Schlooooomp

05/12/2007, 11:42 AM

Pro venables:
John Giles - RTE - conditional support, based on venables concentrating on the Irish job and not media profile
Paul Hyland - The Evening Herald
Paul Lennon - The Star
Roy Curtis - The Sunday World
Kenny Cunningham - The Evening herald
Dion Fanning - Irish Independent
Liam Mackey - Irish Examiner
Most players or ex-players have positive things to say about venables, not gonna name names on this one.

Anti venables:
Eamon Dunphy - RTE/The Star
Tom Humphries - The Irish Times
Daniel McDonnell - Irish Independent
Kieran Cunningham - The Star
foot.ie
Newstalk - Off The Ball show
ALAN SUGAR - I'll add him but I'm not sure he has come out and said anything specifically about the Irish job.

Help me add to the list please.

Where is Juanace, I expect him to add to the Pro venables list.

Drumcondra 69er

05/12/2007, 11:43 AM

Name names:

Help me add to the list please.

Pro venables:
John Giles - RTE - conditional support, based on venables concentrating on the Irish job and not media profile
Paul Hyland - The Evening Herald
Paul Lennon - The Star
Roy Curtis - The Sunday World
Kenny Cunningham - The Evening herald
Dion Fanning - Irish Independent
Liam Mackey - Irish Examiner
Most players or ex-players have positive things to say about venables, not gonna name names on this one.

Anti venables:
Eamon Dunphy - RTE/The Star
Tom Humphries - The Irish Times
Daniel McDonnell - Irish Independent
Kieran Cunningham - The Star
Eamon Carr - The Evening Herald
foot.ie
Newstalk

Big difference in the quality of journalist on the bottom list in my opinion.

Drumcondra 69er

05/12/2007, 12:06 PM

CRYSTAL PALACE 1976-80

"saw his Eagles soar from Third Division to First in three dizzy seasons" - Not bad i'd say.

QPR 1980-84

"winning promotion to the First Division (after three seasons) and taking the Rs to the 1982 FA Cup final" - Thats not bad either.

BARCELONA 1984-87
his team won a weak Spanish league in his first season, and made the last two of a ****-poor post-Heysel European Cup field in his second. - So he also one the spanish league title!

TOTTENHAM 1987-91

"Let's put aside the 1991 FA Cup" - thats not very fair now is it?

ENGLAND 1994-96

"England then played above themselves in their final game before going out bravely" - so he got to a semi final and only lost on penalities, hardly a disgrace.

AUSTRALIA 1996-97
"as two late Iran strikes saw them through on away goals" - i saw this game, they was very unlucky to go out.

MIDDLESBROUGH 2000-01
"truth, it was Venables who called the shots, and steered Boro to eight wins in 25 matches and clear of relegation." - so he saved them from certain relegation?

Black marks: Crystal Palace and Portmouth didnt work out, possibly Australia, we all know the difficulties Leeds had.

ALL im saying is there is two ways of viewing his career to date. He has VAST experience, and should be one of the candiates we should seriously consider. Please name me the better candidates?

CRYSTAL PALACE 1976-80

"saw his Eagles soar from Third Division to First in three dizzy seasons" - Not bad i'd say.

30 years ago.

QPR 1980-84

"winning promotion to the First Division (after three seasons) and taking the Rs to the 1982 FA Cup final" - Thats not bad either.

27 years ago.

BARCELONA 1984-87
his team won a weak Spanish league in his first season, and made the last two of a ****-poor post-Heysel European Cup field in his second. - So he also one the spanish league title!

Started well and fell away badly at the end of his reign.

TOTTENHAM 1987-91

"Let's put aside the 1991 FA Cup" - thats not very fair now is it?

Quoted out of context, there is more to that extract.

ENGLAND 1994-96

"England then played above themselves in their final game before going out bravely" - so he got to a semi final and only lost on penalities, hardly a disgrace.

Again quoted out of context, there is more to that extract, look at the 5 games they played and the farcical refereeing in the quarter against Spain. this wasn't total football as some in the media would have you believe.

AUSTRALIA 1996-97
"as two late Iran strikes saw them through on away goals" - i saw this game, they was very unlucky to go out.

I also saw that game and disagree, I think the shape Australia settled into once they went 2 up ceeded the initiative and with defenders pushing up caused them to get caught out. They were ahead 3 times in that tie overall and couldn't close it out. His team selection and tactics for the 2nd leg were questioned big time after that match

MIDDLESBROUGH 2000-01
"truth, it was Venables who called the shots, and steered Boro to eight wins in 25 matches and clear of relegation." - so he saved them from certain relegation?

If he saved them as assistant then why isn't he culpable for England's recent failure when he was in the same role?

Black marks: Crystal Palace and Portmouth didnt work out, possibly Australia, we all know the difficulties Leeds had.

The difficulties Leeds has were multiplied exponentially by TV's failure, the fact that they were in relegation trouble despite the strength of squad they had was a major trigger for the creditors looking for money back, do you think they'd have come knocking had Leeds been top of the league?

I've no problem with Venables early record, it's the last 10 years that concern me.

There's plenty of candidates with a far better recent record mentioned on various threads.

Stuttgart88

05/12/2007, 12:16 PM

you can add www.chatsoccer.eu to the anti-camp. No pool taken but majority on that forum are negative.

Mark Lawrenson dropped a very basic positive Venables remark (players like him) / anti-Hodgson remark (Finland didn't qualify) in the Irish Times last week.

Schlooooomp

05/12/2007, 1:12 PM

Pro venables:
John Giles - RTE - conditional support, based on venables concentrating on the Irish job and not media profile
Paul Hyland - The Evening Herald
Paul Lennon - The Star
Roy Curtis - The Sunday World
Kenny Cunningham - The Evening herald
Dion Fanning - Irish Independent
Liam Mackey - Irish Examiner
Mark Lawrenson
Most players or ex-players have positive things to say about venables, not gonna name names on this one.

Anti venables:
Eamon Dunphy - RTE/The Star
Tom Humphries - The Irish Times
Daniel McDonnell - Irish Independent
Kieran Cunningham - The Star
foot.ie
Newstalk - Off The Ball show
ALAN SUGAR - I'll add him but I'm not sure he has come out and said anything specifically about the Irish job.
Chatsoccer.eu

Drumcondra 69er

05/12/2007, 1:21 PM

Pro venables:
John Giles - RTE - conditional support, based on venables concentrating on the Irish job and not media profile
Paul Hyland - The Evening Herald
Paul Lennon - The Star
Roy Curtis - The Sunday World
Kenny Cunningham - The Evening herald
Dion Fanning - Irish Independent
Liam Mackey - Irish Examiner
Mark Lawrenson
Most players or ex-players have positive things to say about venables, not gonna name names on this one.

Anti venables:
Eamon Dunphy - RTE/The Star
Tom Humphries - The Irish Times
Daniel McDonnell - Irish Independent
Kieran Cunningham - The Star
foot.ie
Newstalk - Off The Ball show
ALAN SUGAR - I'll add him but I'm not sure he has come out and said anything specifically about the Irish job.
Chatsoccer.eu

You missed Eamon Carr in the Herald again mate. Arguing very eloquently against him regularly.

Ireland4ever

05/12/2007, 1:25 PM

Pro venables:
John Giles - RTE - conditional support, based on venables concentrating on the Irish job and not media profile
Paul Hyland - The Evening Herald
Paul Lennon - The Star
Roy Curtis - The Sunday World
Kenny Cunningham - The Evening herald
Dion Fanning - Irish Independent
Liam Mackey - Irish Examiner
Mark Lawrenson
Most players or ex-players have positive things to say about venables, not gonna name names on this one.

Anti venables:
Eamon Dunphy - RTE/The Star
Tom Humphries - The Irish Times
Daniel McDonnell - Irish Independent
Kieran Cunningham - The Star
foot.ie
Newstalk - Off The Ball show
ALAN SUGAR - I'll add him but I'm not sure he has come out and said anything specifically about the Irish job.
Chatsoccer.eu

Pro Venables James Lawton - Irish independent/Independent

His articles are generally very good i thought - well until he offered his opinions on venables!!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/el-tels-proven-ability-is-key-to-irelands-future-1219835.html

Schlooooomp

05/12/2007, 1:27 PM

Pro venables:
John Giles - RTE - conditional support, based on venables concentrating on the Irish job and not media profile
Paul Hyland - The Evening Herald
Paul Lennon - The Star
Roy Curtis - The Sunday World
Kenny Cunningham - The Evening herald
Dion Fanning - Irish Independent
Liam Mackey - Irish Examiner
James lawton - Irish Independent
Mark Lawrenson
Most players or ex-players have positive things to say about venables, not gonna name names on this one.

Anti venables:
Eamon Dunphy - RTE/The Star
Tom Humphries - The Irish Times
Daniel McDonnell - Irish Independent
Kieran Cunningham - The Star
Eamon Carr - The Evening Herald
foot.ie
Newstalk - Off The Ball show
ALAN SUGAR - I'll add him but I'm not sure he has come out and said anything specifically about the Irish job.
Chatsoccer.eu

dr_peepee

05/12/2007, 1:38 PM

Ah sure we are only a poor small country ( doffing cap in subservience).:rolleyes: Juanace, get a grip and get out of the 19th Century for fcuk sake

He can't..... He's too busy taking care of the drainage in the lower field!!

Juanace

05/12/2007, 2:55 PM

Ah sure we are only a poor small country ( doffing cap in subservience).:rolleyes: Juanace, get a grip and get out of the 19th Century for fcuk sake

Thats a great point, clearly im stuck in the 19th Century. Of course we can get a manager that would luv top manage Ireland as much as Brazil. What was i thinking :rolleyes:.

We ARE a small country in the football sense.. its called REALISM. We arent gonna get a Mourinho. And you arent gonna get me to protest against a decent candiate for the job.

Schlooooomp

05/12/2007, 3:09 PM

Welcome back Juanace, as you can see we have put up a list of those "media types" that are pro and anti venables. Once you take out the forums and Alan Sugar, it is clear that based on the above list the media is by and large pro venables. Do you have any names for the anti venables list to back up your claim from yesterday?

Armando

05/12/2007, 3:17 PM

Thats a great point, clearly im stuck in the 19th Century. Of course we can get a manager that would luv top manage Ireland as much as Brazil. What was i thinking :rolleyes:.

We ARE a small country in the football sense.. its called REALISM. We arent gonna get a Mourinho. And you arent gonna get me to protest against a decent candiate for the job.

So? Neither is anybody else. He's too big for international football and is using the English F.A. to expediate the process of getting 1 of the BIG club jobs.

Juanace

05/12/2007, 3:21 PM

In fairness Schlooooomp you've picked out the "media types" i'd have mentioned. RTE footy panel (not so convinced Gilesy was pro venables, Newtalk 106, Tom Humphries and this forum! Do't generally read the others so i'll accept maybe there is more pro than con, i just aint been reading it.

Still think he's a decent canditate mind;):D

Ireland4ever

05/12/2007, 3:22 PM

Thats a great point, clearly im stuck in the 19th Century. Of course we can get a manager that would luv top manage Ireland as much as Brazil. What was i thinking :rolleyes:.

We ARE a small country in the football sense.. its called REALISM. We arent gonna get a Mourinho. And you arent gonna get me to protest against a decent candiate for the job.

I disagree totally, as long as Ireland can pay as much as other average nations we should be able to attract a decent calibre of manager (Not the mourinhos of this world obviously). And, we can probably pay more than most average nations to boot...Gus hiddink at Australia for example.

dr_peepee

05/12/2007, 3:22 PM

We arent gonna get a Mourinho. And you arent gonna get me to protest against a decent candiate for the job.

Man... Seriously... Where did you read any of the regulars here saying we're gonna get Mourinho???

I wouldn't soil the good name of cowboys by calling Terry Venables one!!

Juanace

05/12/2007, 3:24 PM

So? Neither is anybody else. He's too big for international football and is using the English F.A. to expediate the process of getting 1 of the BIG club jobs.

The point i'm trying to make (and i think anyone else could see it) is that in my humble opinion we arent in the running for an absolutely top level manager. The names in the media are the guys we can get and I think Venables aint a bad one.

Juanace

05/12/2007, 3:27 PM

I disagree totally, as long as Ireland can pay as much as other average nations we should be able to attract a decent calibre of manager (Not the mourinhos of this world obviously). And, we can probably pay more than most average nations to boot...Gus hiddink at Australia for example.

Fair point, though i'd reckon he was on more than you'd think.

Ireland4ever

05/12/2007, 3:50 PM

Fair point, though i'd reckon he was on more than you'd think.

I heard a great stat on newstalk a few weeks back.
Theres only two managers in Serie A thats on a million a year. The money doesnt seem to be in Serie A anymore, but they still have top quality managers. I think our idea of the standard wage is being distorted somewhat what with our proximity to the cash cow that is the EPL.
Realistically speaking we should be able to get a very capable european manager with the money we have to offer. Id take Hodgson/Coppell in the blink of an eye!

amaccann

05/12/2007, 4:15 PM

We ARE a small country in the football sense.. its called REALISM. We arent gonna get a Mourinho. And you arent gonna get me to protest against a decent candiate for the job.

Few people realistically expect a Mourinho; however if Finland, Poland and their like can attract, and pay for, top quality European managers, why must Ireland be content with cast-offs & failures from the English game?

citizenerased

05/12/2007, 4:38 PM

thats the problem, good old ireland always setting our sights low, as if we should be grovelling for someone like hodgson...

geysir

05/12/2007, 4:49 PM

you can add www.chatsoccer.eu to the anti-camp. No pool taken but majority on that forum are negative.
Thats a closed forum, can't be verified, not that I don't trust you.

soccerc

05/12/2007, 4:53 PM

Thats a closed forum, can't be verified, not that I don't trust you.

It's not a closed forum.

Anyone can register and participate, it helps keep certain snoopers and sniffers from a certain organisation out.

It has only been that way for a few weeks.

geysir

05/12/2007, 5:03 PM

Okay, I registered one time but it was never accepted or verified, I have a Groucho Marx complex :)

soccerc

05/12/2007, 5:14 PM

Okay, I registered one time but it was never accepted or verified, I have a Groucho Marx complex :)

Your account was deleted as it was inactive as highlighted (*Please note dormant accounts and those with no posts will be periodically deleted) in the activation email you received.

Bondvillain

05/12/2007, 5:43 PM

thats the problem, good old ireland always setting our sights low, as if we should be grovelling for someone like hodgson...

Spot on. We may as well hang a sign over the country saying

"CAN'T AFFORD JOSE. WILLING HAS-BEENS PLS Q HERE - SMALL WAGES BUT CRAIC LEVEL : 90"

Defeatist attitudes permeate throughout the footballing fraternity here, from the very top down, so much so , that now we believe that nations of a similar quality are more entitled to a world class manager than we are.

The first step to convincing a Jose or a Scolari or a Capello that we are contenders is to stop faffing around massaging the egos of Has-beens like Kendall and shameless joyriders like Venables and approach the very best saying "We believe you are the man to lead our squad of players to the world cup. Here's our proposal, what exactly can we do to make you take this job?

We may well be blown out of the water come salary negotiation time, but way things are going, it seems like the FAI are perfectly happy never to find that out, & I have no idea why.

Dammit it'd better than what we're currently saying : "We have no manager. Who's unemployed and desperate? Perhaps we should wait until Finland, England , Scotland, South Korea etc etc etc ad infinitum have hired a manager, so we can have our choice of the 20th best unemployed Managers in the world, eh?"

The "Ah sure, we're only Ireland, why would anyone good come here?" attitude annoys the hole off me. The job is there, the potential for qualifying is there, and I firmly believe that, for the right man, the money is there.

The only drawback is that the FAI are there too, and since their bollockology seems to be causing all the problems we're having regarding "world class selection teams", their unwillingness to do a balls-out, teeth bared old fashioned headhunt, the usual level of executive interference, and generally, being gobshytes, they are the main obsticle to appointing a world class manager.

geysir

05/12/2007, 6:45 PM

Your account was deleted as it was inactive as highlighted (*Please note dormant accounts and those with no posts will be periodically deleted) in the activation email you received.

AFAIA the account to chatsoccer.eu was never activated and for sure, as sure as I can be, I never got an activation email, evident also as in I could never log on.
I tried around the time that Tets first started up his Irish abroad page.
I can always try to register again.

CollegeTillIDie

05/12/2007, 9:36 PM

Spot on. We may as well hang a sign over the country saying

"CAN'T AFFORD JOSE. WILLING HAS-BEENS PLS Q HERE - SMALL WAGES BUT CRAIC LEVEL : 90"

Defeatist attitudes permeate throughout the footballing fraternity here, from the very top down, so much so , that now we believe that nations of a similar quality are more entitled to a world class manager than we are.

The first step to convincing a Jose or a Scolari or a Capello that we are contenders is to stop faffing around massaging the egos of Has-beens like Kendall and shameless joyriders like Venables and approach the very best saying "We believe you are the man to lead our squad of players to the world cup. Here's our proposal, what exactly can we do to make you take this job?

We may well be blown out of the water come salary negotiation time, but way things are going, it seems like the FAI are perfectly happy never to find that out, & I have no idea why.

Dammit it'd better than what we're currently saying : "We have no manager. Who's unemployed and desperate? Perhaps we should wait until Finland, England , Scotland, South Korea etc etc etc ad infinitum have hired a manager, so we can have our choice of the 20th best unemployed Managers in the world, eh?"

The "Ah sure, we're only Ireland, why would anyone good come here?" attitude annoys the hole off me. The job is there, the potential for qualifying is there, and I firmly believe that, for the right man, the money is there.

The only drawback is that the FAI are there too, and since their bollockology seems to be causing all the problems we're having regarding "world class selection teams", their unwillingness to do a balls-out, teeth bared old fashioned headhunt, the usual level of executive interference, and generally, being gobshytes, they are the main obsticle to appointing a world class manager.

POTM nomination from me....

Juanace, why can't we get Marcello Lippi or Fabio Capello?
And if you don't ask them you shall never know. We can pay them with the FAI's new found largesse thanks to playing home games in a 70,000+ capacity stadium instead of a 34,000 capacity one.

danonion

05/12/2007, 9:48 PM

Man... Seriously... Where did you read any of the regulars here saying we're gonna get Mourinho???

I wouldn't soil the good name of cowboys by calling Terry Venables one!!

I think Venables qualifies as a keoboy, if you're familiar with that funny tyrone-speak

Cymro

05/12/2007, 10:07 PM

kingdomkerry

05/12/2007, 10:15 PM

Ireland are well capable of qualifying for the "next couple of tournaments" with a good manager most importantly and players like given, dunne, finnan, duff, ireland, mcgeady, keane and doyle!

Cymro

05/12/2007, 10:18 PM

You haven't from the last 3 campaigns. I don't want to start a huge row, but it's debateable at best as to whether your problems are down to your manager or your players.

amaccann

05/12/2007, 10:22 PM

You haven't from the last 3 campaigns. I don't want to start a huge row, but it's debateable at best as to whether your problems are down to your manager or your players.
It's a bit of both, but we have a team of players playing Premiership football. The Premiership is full of teams playing above their pedigree over the last few years; so with the right encouragement & manager, we could also raise our players above and beyond their capabilities.

Lionel Ritchie

05/12/2007, 10:28 PM

I think Cymros analysis is fair comment. What's also pertinent, though not the be all and end all, is that Alex McLeishs salary leapt about 1500% by moving from Scotland to Birmingham ...yes Birmingham.

I'm not saying chuck money at the job, I'm on record here as saying as far as international football goes the Irish job is pretty well renumerated. I'm just saying that, unless they're after the relative "quiet life" then the Capellos et al out there can find better opportunities financially in club managment.

eirebhoy

05/12/2007, 10:41 PM

College, Birmingham recently tried to get either Lippi or Capello (can't remember which) but were rejected. Now Alex McLeish took the Birmingham job over staying with Scotland and Scotland are currently in a better position than Ireland. So I would say it's pretty unlikely Lippi or Capello would take the Irish job.
All he was saying is that there's no harm in asking. Although, considering the FAI apparantly approached Martin O'Neill and Alex Ferguson 2 years ago I wouldn't say they're afraid, just completely out of their depth.

I don't really agree with you either. The chances of Lippi wanting to manage Ireland are slim but you're trying to make out that managing Birmingham is a more attractive job than Ireland just because of Alex McLeish.

Cymro, I have a feeling that you just want Irish fans to get a reality check. Why else would you vote yes in the Terry Venables poll? ;)

soccerc

05/12/2007, 11:04 PM

the FAI apparantly approached Martin O'Neill and Alex Ferguson 2 years ago I wouldn't say they're afraid, just completely out of their depth.

They didn't, no one other than Robson and Staunton were ever in the frame

eekers

05/12/2007, 11:46 PM

Noelys Guitar

05/12/2007, 11:50 PM

Delaney said tonight that nobody from the FAI has spoken to TV.

soccerc

06/12/2007, 12:14 AM

Delaney said tonight that nobody from the FAI has spoken to TV.

Very careful choice of words, no?

Bondvillain

06/12/2007, 12:27 AM

Very careful choice of words, no?

Very true. "Nobody has approached Venables in relation to him taking the Irish job" would have been more comforting.

And in fairness, it was said by a man who if he was asked "Are you alive?" would instinctively answer "No", due to his complete aversion to the truth in all it's forms.

Sligo Hornet

06/12/2007, 6:53 AM

Delaney said tonight that nobody from the FAI has spoken to TV.

Heh Noely.....I didn't know you could see into the future......any chance of letting me know the winning Lotto numbers for the next draw!:D

Cymro

06/12/2007, 10:32 AM

All he was saying is that there's no harm in asking. Although, considering the FAI apparantly approached Martin O'Neill and Alex Ferguson 2 years ago I wouldn't say they're afraid, just completely out of their depth.

I don't really agree with you either. The chances of Lippi wanting to manage Ireland are slim but you're trying to make out that managing Birmingham is a more attractive job than Ireland just because of Alex McLeish.

Cymro, I have a feeling that you just want Irish fans to get a reality check. Why else would you vote yes in the Terry Venables poll? ;)

I certainly did not imply it was pointless asking. You could ask, but I'd say the chances of you getting either would be slim. Who's to say the FAI haven't already rung both up and got a short and sweet 'no' but just didn't care to make it public?

As for Venables, I don't think he would be that bad a choice. He has achieved something at international level before, getting England to the semis of a major tournament, and at a time when England weren't at their best, similar to Ireland now. If you can get him, Hodgson would be the best, but I've a feeling he's waiting for England to call him. The FAI may already have phoned him but he said something to the effect of 'I'm weighing up my options' ie 'I want the England job, if they don't offer it to me I will consider you'

That probably sounds pretty offensive, but just bear in mind Hodgson is an Englishman, and who wouldn't want to manage their own country?

Stuttgart88

06/12/2007, 10:35 AM

who wouldn't want to manage their own country?Mark Hughes? :)

Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that Hodgson isn't in the running for the England job.

Barwick's shortlist is thought to be Mourinho, Capello, Lippi, Klinsmann and maybe still O'Neill.

eekers

06/12/2007, 10:39 AM

hodgson has said many times he sees himself as british as opposed to english. i dont think he's got that much of an ambition to manage england

shakermaker1982

06/12/2007, 10:48 AM

Hodgson hasn't got a chance with the ING GER LAND post. It has to be a big name or heads will roll at the FA and I don't mean to knock Hodgson because I want him to manage us. I fully expect Capello to be appointed by Barwick and co. Mourinho is just messing em around playing games whereas Capello wants the bloody thing.

citizenerased

06/12/2007, 10:56 AM

we should break the bank and try to get O'Neill...perfect for the job..he should be approached again anyway despite a high possibility of refusal...As with any job, you should always try to get the best suitable first, and then, if needs be, due to no other choice approach the venables and Hodgsons of this world..