FAI Cup final may not go ahead?! [Archive]

Risteard

10/11/2007, 2:52 AM

The other side.

The Football Association of Ireland wishes to clarify several issues that have arisen in relation to the financial package on offer to the finalists in the 2007 FAI Ford Cup Final.

At a meeting in Portmarnock on Wednesday, October 10, between the FAI and representatives of the four semi-finalists – Bohemians, Cork City, Longford Town and UCD - the financial package for the finalists was outlined in detail and accepted by the clubs.

The FAI proposed that the winner of the competition would be guaranteed a minimum payment of €100,000 and the runners-up a minimum payment of €75,000. It was explained that this some would cover prize-money, TV revenue and a share of the surplus with the FAI making up the shortfall, if any, to guarantee the agreed payment.

These guaranteed payments represent a substantial increase on the monies paid to the 2006 finalists where the winners received €45,000 in prize money and television revenue and the runners-up got €39,000.

The two clubs also shared a €37,000 gate surplus.

The FAI completely refutes any suggestion that it is in breach of the rules of the competition and is expressly disappointed at the actions of the Cork City Board on this matter.

It looks like we've a proper stand-off on our hands here.
Nothing heard from Longfords end?

Why would the FAI call it a minimum payment whilst spelling out that it covered gates, prize money and tv revenue?

OneRedArmy

10/11/2007, 5:51 AM

Seems like a significant increase from last year, guaranteed. It effective insures the potential for a low gate plus the cost of hiring the RDS.

Last year, from the press release, Derry got €63,500 (45+18.5) and Pats got €57,500 (39+18.5). Compare this with this years amounts,

The FAI is clearly in breach of its own rules (again) but in the grand scheme of thing can't see what the problem is?

Student Mullet

10/11/2007, 6:01 AM

Seems like a significant increase from last year, guaranteed. It effective insures the potential for a low gate plus the cost of hiring the RDS.

Last year, from the press release, Derry got �63,500 (45+18.5) and Pats got �57,500 (39+18.5). Compare this with this years amounts,

The FAI is clearly in breach of its own rules (again) but in the grand scheme of thing can't see what the problem is?

I presume that Cork is in dispute with the FAI over something else entirely and are using this breach of the rules as leverage towards whatever their real aim is.

tiktok

10/11/2007, 9:42 AM

Last year, from the press release, Derry got €63,500 (45+18.5) and Pats got €57,500 (39+18.5). Compare this with this years amounts,

The FAI is clearly in breach of its own rules (again) but in the grand scheme of thing can't see what the problem is?

Effectively, the prize money last season was €45,000 for the winners plus % of the gate after expenses. This season, the prize money was announced (and great hoo-haa and back slapping) as increasing to €100k, and the rulebook wasn't changed with regards to the % of the gate for each club.

The FAI started back-tracking three weeks ago, when for some reason they appeared to need extra money for something :rolleyes:. It seems that the FAI cup finalists are an easy way to recoup a few quid.

I agree with the club standing up for themselves, but the 'leak' regarding our threat to pull out is something I can't agree with.

A face

10/11/2007, 9:52 AM

The FAI in a "we're moving the goal posts" shocker ..... who would have thought?? :eek:

Way to go, completely devalue your own competition. Fair play lads, trojan work there. I didn't think ye had it in ye.

OneRedArmy

10/11/2007, 10:13 AM

Effectively, the prize money last season was �63,500 for the winners plus 40% of the gate after expenses. Thats not what the press release says.

The total monies paid to Derry were 63,500 including the split of gate profits.

So are you saying the press release is factually incorrect?

tiktok

10/11/2007, 10:16 AM

Thats not what the press release says.

The total monies paid to Derry were 63,500 including the split of gate profits.

So are you saying the press release is factually incorrect?

That was a typo on my part, the prize money for the FAI Cup last season was �45k.
Set in stone in the same way the �100k was reported to be this season.

OneRedArmy

10/11/2007, 10:24 AM

That was a typo on my part, the prize money for the FAI Cup last season was �45k.
Set in stone in the same way the �100k was reported to be this season.
Okay, so the argument is purely over whether the gate profit is included in the 100k (FAI view) or on top of this (Cork's view).

Cork would appear to be shooting themselves in the foot over 10-15k.

FAI clearly not blameless (Cup arrangements have been a farce, as per usual), but looks like Arkaga are throwing the toys out of the pram.

tiktok

10/11/2007, 10:31 AM

Okay, so the argument is purely over whether the gate profit is included in the 100k (FAI view) or on top of this (Cork's view).

Actually, the argument is over whether the gate profit is included in the �100k (FAI stance announced only three weeks ago) or on top of this (the FAI's own rulebook).

Cork would appear to be shooting themselves in the foot over 10-15k.

FAI clearly not blameless (Cup arrangements have been a farce, as per usual), but looks like Arkaga are throwing the toys out of the pram.

I agree.

I think they're right to fight it, but do this off the field.

The jump to a boycott of the final is absolutely ridiculous, especially when there's a possible �100k prize money with the add-ons of gate receipts/UEFA money/TV Money from the UEFA Cup, plus gate receipts/TV Money/possible prize money from the Setanta Cup too..

The Man Himself

10/11/2007, 10:32 AM

A face

10/11/2007, 10:37 AM

Okay, so the argument is purely over whether the gate profit is included in the 100k (FAI view) or on top of this (Cork's view).

If it were view points and opinion then we wouldn't be having this thread.

Cork would appear to be shooting themselves in the foot over 10-15k.

It not shooting ourselves in the foot, we are entitled to gate receipts as is outlined in the FAIs rules. They are trying to renege on this and the club (or clubs) aren't happy with it.

FAI clearly not blameless (Cup arrangements have been a farce, as per usual), but looks like Arkaga are throwing the toys out of the pram.

The prize money has nothing to do with this. It was set very early on in the year, 100k and 50k for winners and runners up respectively.

On a completely separate issue ..... not in the slightest bit related to the prize money, both clubs are entitled to some of the gate receipts as outlined be the FAI.

The FAI claim that this was agreed by the four clubs ..... something that is yet to be proved. But if this even was the case then the FAI are breaking one of their own rules which stipulates -> "33. The Council shall have power to alter the FAI Cup Rules, but in no case shall they do so until after the Final Tie in any competition has been played."

A face

10/11/2007, 10:43 AM

who the hell do cork think they are.

One of the FAI Cup finalists and subject to the rules of the competition the same as everyone else.

its called the fai cup and its run by the fai. so the fai can do it what ever way they want.

There in lies the problem, The Council shall have power to alter the FAI Cup Rules, so yes they can do what ever they want but in no case shall they do so until after the Final Tie in any competition has been played meaning they should have done whatever they want a lot earlier than this stage of the season. Its all about timing y'see ;)

hope john delaney is man enough to stand up

You wouldn't be on your own there i'd say

to them and kick them out of it.

That can't happen

cork think they own the fecking league.

No, but that could be the start of a very good idea right there. The future could be bright ;)

tiktok

10/11/2007, 10:45 AM

who the hell do cork think they are.
its called the fai cup and its run by the fai. so the fai can do it what ever way they want.
hope john delaney is man enough to stand up to them and kick them out of it.

cork think they own the fecking league.

The % of the gates on top of Prize money is in the FAI rule book.
The FAI announced that the winning team got �100k.
They didn't change anything in the rulebook.
All CCFC are doing is making them play by the rukles they've written themselves.

Do a bit of background reading before you start ranting.

kdjaC

10/11/2007, 11:06 AM

If cork pull out Pats are in the final , yeah?

kdjac

tiktok

10/11/2007, 11:06 AM

If cork pull out Pats are in the final , yeah?

kdjac

I'd assume Bohs would be as the Semi-finalist who we beat.
On what basis would Pat's get in?

A face

10/11/2007, 11:12 AM

I'd assume Bohs would be as the Semi-finalist who we beat.
On what basis would Pat's get in?

If Bohs were in it and won, do we get intertoto cup spot then?

Sheridan

10/11/2007, 11:12 AM

I'd assume Bohs would be as the Semi-finalist who we beat.
On what basis would Pat's get in?
Highest percentage of septuagenarians attending in a month beginning with O.

A face

10/11/2007, 11:14 AM

Highest percentage of septuagenarians attending in a month beginning with O.

How long did you wait to use a word like that and why is it relevant to this topic?

DRDoc

10/11/2007, 11:26 AM

This all seems a major over reaction to me

Cant see Cork pulling out

Poor Student

10/11/2007, 11:42 AM

How long did you wait to use a word like that and why is it relevant to this topic?

It's a joke about the nature in which Pat's got into the Setanta Cup.

Dodge

10/11/2007, 11:44 AM

I'd assume Bohs would be as the Semi-finalist who we beat.
On what basis would Pat's get in?

After we had the points deduction, to stop us taking league action over the FAI/league failure to act when the Report showed other clubns had breached regulations, the FAi/league inserted a clause that

"any clubs is demoted from the league, or fails to finish a cup competition, St. Patrick's Athletic will be favoured in all cases"

Worked last year

jebus

10/11/2007, 2:24 PM

Lads I'm gonna use the same nonsense that has been used on me whenever I questioned the promotion situation last year

You ****ing signed up with the FAI like the rest of us so stop ****ing moaning

Lovely league we have here, it really is :rolleyes:

Martinho II

10/11/2007, 2:33 PM

The other side.

The Football Association of Ireland wishes to clarify several issues that have arisen in relation to the financial package on offer to the finalists in the 2007 FAI Ford Cup Final.

At a meeting in Portmarnock on Wednesday, October 10, between the FAI and representatives of the four semi-finalists � Bohemians, Cork City, Longford Town and UCD - the financial package for the finalists was outlined in detail and accepted by the clubs.

The FAI proposed that the winner of the competition would be guaranteed a minimum payment of �100,000 and the runners-up a minimum payment of �75,000. It was explained that this some would cover prize-money, TV revenue and a share of the surplus with the FAI making up the shortfall, if any, to guarantee the agreed payment.

These guaranteed payments represent a substantial increase on the monies paid to the 2006 finalists where the winners received �45,000 in prize money and television revenue and the runners-up got �39,000.

The two clubs also shared a �37,000 gate surplus.

The FAI completely refutes any suggestion that it is in breach of the rules of the competition and is expressly disappointed at the actions of the Cork City Board on this matter.

It looks like we've a proper stand-off on our hands here.
Nothing heard from Longfords end?

Why would the FAI call it a minimum payment whilst spelling out that it covered gates, prize money and tv revenue?

just spoke to a commitee member earlier we are backing cork city on this as well! hopefully there will be a compromise!

A face

10/11/2007, 2:54 PM

You ****ing signed up with the FAI like the rest of us so stop ****ing moaning

Yeah, we only want what we signed up for, the gate receipts. Will you have a word with them for us?

superfrank

10/11/2007, 2:59 PM

Yeah, we only want what we signed up for, the gate receipts. Will you have a word with them for us?
I think the point he's making is you can't take everything they say as concrete promises, although we all want to believe that.

World class manager anyone?

jebus

10/11/2007, 3:24 PM

I think the point he's making is you can't take everything they say as concrete promises, although we all want to believe that.

World class manager anyone?

Thankfully someone around here isn't an over reactionary from Cork

sonofstan

10/11/2007, 3:32 PM

just spoke to a commitee member earlier we are backing cork city on this as well! hopefully there will be a compromise!

So Poor Student, Schumi, CTID et al...... see you in the RDS?

pineapple stu

10/11/2007, 3:34 PM

Yep, UCD v Bohs final. Wouldn't say no!

jebus

10/11/2007, 3:36 PM

Wouldn't it be funny if the FAI booted both Cork and Longford and just made up a final, say Finn Harps vs Castlebar Celtic, and started talking about Castlebar's magical run to the cup final, I know I'd get a chuckle or two anyway

Celdrog

10/11/2007, 3:41 PM

just spoke to a commitee member earlier we are backing cork city on this as well! hopefully there will be a compromise!
Why did nobody complain when it was discussed before the semi finals?
Looks to me like the FAI are giving what they always did but are guaranteeing it will be made up to �100,000 minimum. Seems like a very good deal for the clubs. I've never seen it anywhere the prizemoney would be �100k. I did see that the winners would get �100k, although I stand to be corrected on this.
Small crowd -winners get �100,000. Big crowd - winners get more than �100,000.

Looks like Cork want �100k if they win plus the share of the gate. FFS it was only �100k for coming second in the league, Get real

Sonic

10/11/2007, 3:42 PM

Dont care it will only be an anticlimax to a **** season:(

A face

10/11/2007, 4:41 PM

I think the point he's making is you can't take everything they say as concrete promises, although we all want to believe that.

What do you mean promises? Am i missing something here?

For the record, i am referring to the FAIs rules for the competition, you know the ones ..... the ones we all have to adhere to.

What are the promises you are on about? Is this from a newspaper article or something

World class manager anyone?

Have you posted in the wrong thread or something? Or are you referring to the FAI's problem with the Irish Managers position? Come on Frank, help us out here man will ya.

A face

10/11/2007, 4:42 PM

Thankfully someone around here isn't an over reactionary from Cork

What's reactionary about it? Its the FAI's rules we are talking about here yeah?

Do someone merge these posts into the wrong thread or something? Or can someone fill me in on what the lads are going on about?

A face

10/11/2007, 4:45 PM

Wouldn't it be funny if the FAI booted both Cork and Longford

The court case would keep us occupied in the close season anyway. We could try and sort out a webcam or something to see the court proceedings, for the laugh :rolleyes:

jebus

10/11/2007, 4:49 PM

What do you mean promises? Am i missing something here?

For the record, i am referring to the FAIs rules for the competition, you know the ones ..... the ones we all have to adhere to.

Are company guidelines laid out in rulebooks nothing more than promises to their people? And since the FAI have a history of doing things as they please I think SuperFrank is saying that the FAI changing the goalposts to suit their needs is not entirely a shocking revelation. H eprobably mentions Staunton and the World Class manager because it was one of the more high profile of such cases in recent times.

For my point my original comment was aimed at people who like to tow the party line when it doesn't affect their club. Last year quite a lot of people on here, a few Corkies included, were banging on about the FAI agreement, how it's a new dawn etc. Fast forward to this year and the picture isn't quite so rosy and now that shower's motto (the one I've already mentioned) has come back to bite them on the ass. Well I saw tough titties*

* Not sure if you are one of the people I'm on about A Face, so that's not meant as a personal attack

What's reactionary about it? Its the FAI's rules we are talking about here yeah?

Do someone merge these posts into the wrong thread or something? Or can someone fill me in on what the lads are going on about?

Sure why not? Perfect end of season chuckle for this joke shop of a league

A face

10/11/2007, 4:52 PM

Why did nobody complain when it was discussed before the semi finals?

That's the whole issue right there. I think the FAI might have just sprung this one on us. City wouldn't have signed up for it.

The FAI's own rules state that it cant be changed either.

Looks to me like the FAI are giving what they always did but are guaranteeing it will be made up to �100,000 minimum.

But if thats the case then they need to tell people that. The rule book hasn't been changed.

People should confuse prize money with gate receipts, two totally separate issues.

Seems like a very good deal for the clubs.

Again, where are the details of this deal? We've only got the rules book to go on.

I've never seen it anywhere the prizemoney would be �100k. I did see that the winners would get �100k, although I stand to be corrected on this.

Prize money is good fair play to them. Now .... about those gate receipts ....

Small crowd -winners get �100,000. Big crowd - winners get more than �100,000.

Exactly ..... prize money AND gate receipts

Looks like Cork want �100k if they win plus the share of the gate. FFS it was only �100k for coming second in the league, Get real

We are only compiling with the rules .... surely you wouldn't want us to break them would you??? :eek:

A face

10/11/2007, 5:06 PM

Are company guidelines laid out in rulebooks nothing more than promises to their people? And since the FAI have a history of doing things as they please

I dont think Aidan Tynan is going to see it like that. He wont be pushed over that easily.

I think SuperFrank is saying that the FAI changing the goalposts to suit their needs is not entirely a shocking revelation. He probably mentions Staunton and the World Class manager because it was one of the more high profile of such cases in recent times.

The FAI are the administrators of the league .... they have been entrusted to administrate the league and their own competitions. Their portfolio of fawkups should have no bearing on this issue.

For my point my original comment was aimed at people who like to tow the party line when it doesn't affect their club. Last year quite a lot of people on here, a few Corkies included, were banging on about the FAI agreement, how it's a new dawn etc. Fast forward to this year and the picture isn't quite so rosy and now that shower's motto (the one I've already mentioned) has come back to bite them on the ass. Well I saw tough titties*

* Not sure if you are one of the people I'm on about A Face, so that's not meant as a personal attack

I wasn't but to be honest i wasn't happy the way Limerick FC was dealt with before that. This was basically the FAI stamping all over the small fella in their own interests. You wouldn't see that kind of administration in Columbia. This just shows how vulnerable every club is. Their nazi style antics forced a club out of existence and no one baited an eyelid.

If Tynan is willing to stand up to them then i say fair play to him. And it would definitely need someone who is not afraid of being litigious to do so.

I am sick to the back teeth of all these fines and code of silence and never ending list of fawkups from them. There is always something with them.

Drag them kickin' and screaming into a decent administered league if it has to be done but we have to get there. Sponsors and investors wont touch us otherwise.

Sure why not? Perfect end of season chuckle for this joke shop of a league

If you cant laugh then you'd cry. They are a disaster.

jebus

10/11/2007, 5:12 PM

The FAI are the administrators of the league .... they have been entrusted to administrate the league and their own competitions. Their portfolio of fawkups should have no bearing on this issue.

And there's our problem, entrusting this league and our clubs to the FAI, with their history, it was, and still is, going to end in tears. Cork and Longford are just the latest in the line of clubs who have been shafted by the FAI in just one year, imagine what they will do over a ten year period.

For the record I agree with Cork on this issue, I'm having a go at different people in this thread. And thankfully someone on an Eircom League forum can see that Limerick FC were royally screwed by the FAI last season. I was never a fan of Danny Drew, but the FAI kicking Limerick FC out last year just so they could get rid of Danny himself set a benchmark to other clubs and their chairmen for what they will be about for years to come

A face

10/11/2007, 5:45 PM

For the record I agree with Cork on this issue, I'm having a go at different people in this thread. And thankfully someone on an Eircom League forum can see that Limerick FC were royally screwed by the FAI last season. I was never a fan of Danny Drew, but the FAI kicking Limerick FC out last year just so they could get rid of Danny himself set a benchmark to other clubs and their chairmen for what they will be about for years to come

I cant comment as i don't know enough but i still observed and even if he slept with Delaneys wife, that is still no a good enough reason to exterminate a club like that.

Its like something from the dark ages carrying out business like that.

jebus

10/11/2007, 6:02 PM

I cant comment as i don't know enough but i still observed and even if he slept with Delaneys wife, that is still no a good enough reason to exterminate a club like that.

Its like something from the dark ages carrying out business like that.

That's the sort of filth we're all going to have to deal with though, to think some people celebrated the FAI doing that last year is mind boggling. I remember a few people asking why the Limerick fans weren't having fund raisers and the like to help the club out, but it was never about money, or where Limerick played etc., it was always about getting rid of Danny, and since he wasn't selling, and the FAI weren't allowing him into their new shiny league we were completely screwed.

Poor Student

10/11/2007, 6:36 PM

Why did nobody complain when it was discussed before the semi finals?
Looks to me like the FAI are giving what they always did but are guaranteeing it will be made up to �100,000 minimum. Seems like a very good deal for the clubs. I've never seen it anywhere the prizemoney would be �100k. I did see that the winners would get �100k, although I stand to be corrected on this.
Small crowd -winners get �100,000. Big crowd - winners get more than �100,000.

Looks like Cork want �100k if they win plus the share of the gate. FFS it was only �100k for coming second in the league, Get real

A fellow UCD fan suggested to me today that perhaps the Ford sponsorship deal is a significant improvement on the last one and that the FAI are giving the impression of benevolence but are in fact keeping a bigger slice of the sponsorship pie plus the gate receipts. It sounds plausible.

CollegeTillIDie

10/11/2007, 6:43 PM

A fellow UCD fan suggested to me today that perhaps the Ford sponsorship deal is a significant improvement on the last one and that the FAI are giving the impression of benevolence but are in fact keeping a bigger slice of the sponsorship pie plus the gate receipts. It sounds plausible.

Ah yes Ford that would be the shower of feckers who threw hundreds of Cork people on the dole in the 1980's now wouldn't it?:o

onceahoop

10/11/2007, 6:48 PM

If the FAI made a **** up and suddenly realised they weren't going to get much profit out of the Final they should have accepted it instead of moving the goalposts. Surely history has taught them that this sort of carry on just gets the clubs backs up. Then again, they seem to get away with it and that's because the EL clubs have basically lost control of the league which is now run by representatives of Junior Leagues and John Delaney whose main interest(apart from himself and his hair) is Man Ure.

The right thing to do would be to have taken the hit and change the rules before next seaon. Maybe if all the clubs could pull together for once instead of scoring points off each other Delaney might back off and come to his senses.

superfrank

10/11/2007, 6:52 PM

What do you mean promises? Am i missing something here?

For the record, i am referring to the FAIs rules for the competition, you know the ones ..... the ones we all have to adhere to.

What are the promises you are on about? Is this from a newspaper article or something
The reason the clubs went along with the FAI/el merger was because the FAI must've been offering something shiny. Then when they took control they started, as you said somewhere else today, shifting the goalposts. This includes, more than likely, not keeping any promises made to the clubs
beforethe FAI/el merger.

Have you posted in the wrong thread or something? Or are you referring to the FAI's problem with the Irish Managers position? Come on Frank, help us out here man will ya.
Delaney promised a "world class manager" and then gave Staunton the job. An example of a promise the FAI went back on.

A face

10/11/2007, 9:16 PM

The reason the clubs went along with the FAI/el merger was because the FAI must've been offering something shiny. Then when they took control they started, as you said somewhere else today, shifting the goalposts. This includes, more than likely, not keeping any promises made to the clubs.

But Frank, this is an all new low ..... even for them.

Here is a quote from another forum

The crucial thing here is the TV money, which clubs normally share. It seems the FAIlures want to keep it for themselves. That's where the real revenue is. According to some paper this morning; the Star, I think; the total amount could come to �250,000

�250,000 :eek:

Its not just Cork and Longford getting RRS now, its everyone ..... if they put this in the rules next year then they'll effectively be cutting off the oxygen supply for every club and the competition for ever more.

I mean we all want to see a stage where the final would attract 60,000 on a regular basis. The FAI might not have ambition but i'd like to think that clubs do.

This should be fought tooth and nail

GavinZac

10/11/2007, 9:22 PM

who the hell do cork think they are.
its called the fai cup and its run by the fai. so the fai can do it what ever way they want.
hope john delaney is man enough to stand up to them and kick them out of it.

cork think they own the fecking league.

We paid our entrance fee to the competition and signed up to the rules along with every other entrant. The FAI can't just "do it what ever way they want." If they could, longford wouldnt be in the final.